Whittington was shot from a distance of 15 yards or less

[doc03]

in my opinion. According to the reports I have heard he was shot from 30 yards. Whittington was reportedly shot in the upper left chest and neck and the drawing I saw showed an area of about 15" diameter at most. According to the NRA Facts Book I have a shotgun with a (full choke) barrel as a rule of thumb has a pattern spread of 1" for each yard of distance hence a 15" pattern. The (full) choke is the tightest common choke and gives the smallest pattern. There is also a (modified) choke which will give you a wider pattern and the (improved cylinder) choke which gives the widest pattern spread. I have never hunted quail but from my experience of hunting I would guess you would be shooting at quail at a close range and a modified or improved cylinder would be more appropriate for them. Also a 28 ga. shotgun has a light load compared to the more common 12 ga. and I just can't believe a pellet from a even a 12 ga. shotgun could penetrate to the heart at the reported 30 yard range. It could be easily checked by a expert that would know the ballistic of that round.

[rocktivity]

1. That concurs with what a doctor told Keith Olbermann this evening.

in which case Deadmeat Dick definitely should have seen Whittingon. http://www.canofun.com/cof/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=16725

:headbang:
rocknation

[MadisonProgressive]

2. Take the "Cheney distance", divide by 2 and you are close.

[napi21]

3. RIGHT! I've posted this several times. There's NO way a 7 1/2 shot shell

pellets have penetrated undershirt, shirt, coat and vest at 30 FT! let along 30 yards!

I'm thinking it was more like 15 to 20 FT. max.

I don't have the balistics, just using experience and logic.

Hmmm, sorry, I forgot, nobody's logical anymore!

[bahrbearian]

9. From a 28 gauge ,Whittington was probably in the Passenger

sit, drug from the Limo and dumped in the Field.

[rocktivity]

4. Please take a look at this video, too

http://www.caller2.com/specials/2006/gun_demo/index.html

:headbang:
rocknation

[Dhalgren]

10. But that wasn't the pattern they showed on CBS tonight.

They showed a sketch by a police investigator of the pellet pattern on a torso diagram. The pellets were tightly grouped on his upper left chest and shoulder, neck and face. Just from experience I would say it looked more like 15 ft, rather than 15 yds. Definitely not 90ft (30 yds.) - Again, just MO...

[bahrbearian]

12. He stated 200 B-Bs touched this area, which is about right

for a 28 Gauge..but they touched a piece of paper, Coat, clothing is much more absorbent,, then you have human flesh.

[Twist_U_Up]

5. differing statement on distance

some say 30 ft some say 30 yds

I say 30 ft to penetrate to the heart

[bahrbearian]

6. I've been "Peppered" at 10 yards by a 12 gauge,, by a

hyper active hunter that had a "couple cool ones" in a Pheasant hunt line,,luckily I quickly turned my back,,which was where the pellets hit me,,Whittington was much closer then that to get that kind of penetration..

[DaveJ]

8. Does anyone know...

Where the "BB" entered before it got to the heart?

Anyway I think it's totally plausible that Whittington's being shot was an either conscious or subconscious reaction.

[doc03]

11. Maybe he was hit by that magic bullet that killed JFK

[napi21]

14. I listened to the Dr from the Corpus hosp today.

A reporter asked how penetration could have been made in the chest that deep? The Dr said (paraphrase) "Unlike me who has a lot of padding here, MR Whittington has very little, so the entrance to the chest cavity would have been minimal."

Based upon that statement, I have to assume the BBs entered frontally, and either lodged or migrated into the heart muscle.

[Zen Democrat]

17. But it was cold Saturday in Texas. And they had hunting vests.

I agree that the skin of a 78 year old man would have offered little resistance, but the thick clothing with a hunting vest makes it perfectly obvious that it was almost a point-blank shot to penetrate the chest cavity.

Whittington'd daughter said that her father didn't know if he was going to the hospital or the mortuary. And ... that he has no memory of the shot.

[napi21]

20. I haven't heard any comments from his family at all, but as I said

7 1/2 shot shells wouldn't penetrate that much clothing at 30 FT!

NOT to even mention that you have to be FUC*ING BLIND to not see a neon orange vest at even 30 FT!!!!!!

[doc03]

7. Another fact from the accident report, it had cover

at the accident area listed as (Light, Medium and Dense) I believe and (light) was checked on the form. So Deadeye Dicks' vision was apparently not impaired unless he had few to many of those beers.

[bahrbearian]

13. I think that time of day it was Bloody Mary time

a little hair of the dog.

[XOKCowboy]

15. I have to concur...

To get the penetration to puncture a blood vessel (and therefore travel to the heart) much less to puncture clothing and over an inch of chest muscle? 30 yards? I don't think so. I think Whittington took it full blast from 15 or less. Probably much less.

[Road Scholar]

16. Something else not mentioned. The shot had to penetrate the

clothing of the guy who was shot, which I doubt could have been done with a 28 gauge with birdshot much over 20 or 25 yards.

[SPKrazy]

18. I also think he was closer, however the pellet could have entered

from the neck into a vein leading to the heart.

not unheard of. 7 1/2 size bird shot is about 5 mm which is easily transportable in a large vein, say like the jugular vein.

He was shot in the face neck, and chest.

so i doubt that penetration would have gone through his rib cage unless he were very close to the blast, but I doubt he'd be alive to tell about it either.

[napi21]

21. You're right, except the Dr at the Hosp today said in answer to

a reporters question similar to your, "Mr. Whittington's chest cavity doesn't have a lot of resistance. He's not like me." Of course I've paraphrased here, but the idea was that the Dr was a bit pudgy and apparently Harry wasn't.

In either case, it was the Dr. that indicated that the pellet entered the chest and not traveled down an artery or vein.

[SPKrazy]

23. Damn, I didn't know that!

Then he was probably in the range of 15 yards, and not 30 I would think

[nomatrix]

19. I know nothing about guns

so maybe someone who does could help me?

What are the odds that he was carry the gun over his shoulder and it discharged? Photos always depict the hunter heading off with the rifle barrel over his shoulder pointing behind.

[napi21]

24. Probably not. I think he was following a flushed bird and just shot

without looking what was near or behind his shot.

It's pretty normal for bird hinters to wait for a covey to flush out of the brush, pick one bird and follow it in your sites. The problem is, all the hunters I know, realize that you don't do a 180 because THERE MIGHT BE PEOPLE OR DOGS BEHIND YOU!!!!!!

Cheney is such an ass.

[PsN2Wind]

25. The odds............ about zero

Try carrying a gun with your finger inside the trigger guard and your hand on the grip and the barrel nearly parallel to the ground over you shoulder. He ain't got that kinda flexibility. Plus even a 28 gauge discharging while being held like that would have the VP in for medical treatment for broken or dislocated trigger finger and thumb

[nomatrix]

26. Thanks for your reply

I know nadda about his rifle.
I wasn't looking at his finger on the trigger. I was just asking if it could accidently discharge or like a tree branch brushing it? Seems like the victim was really close not to see.

[PsN2Wind]

22. As someone that used to hunt a lot

I would guess that The Dick's double gun was choked improved cylinder for a quick dispersal of the shot pattern and modified which disperses the pattern less quickly. When hunting birds that flush from closeup it's common to use the IC barrel first while the bird is close, then the modified barrel as the bird is further out. Using a full choke on quail would mean any shot close up would just be a cloud of feathers. The CBS graphic appeared that the shot pattern was still very tight, with minimal dispersal, so the range was much under the 30 yards they are trying to claim. Actually a person is much more likely to be shot at close range. Without getting into triggernometry, just visualize a circle around yourself and at 30 feet measure how many degrees of the circle a human body would cover. Then repeat at 30 yards. Note that I said shot, not peppered. You're more likely to be peppered at a longer range because of shot dispersal.