Fallout from Abu Ghraib Photos

[FearofFutility]

Anyone else concerned about the fallout from these new torture photos? There is rioting over cartoons. What do you think the response will be to these? I did view them, and they are sickening. I can only imagine the outrage they will spark in the Muslim world.

[Swamp Rat]

1. Where did you see them? n/t

[Quakerfriend]

2. They are on the home page. Just scroll down a bit.

BEWARE. They will make you heart sic.

[FearofFutility]

4. I followed the link from this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x423863

[Solly Mack]

6. Here you go, Swamp

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Australian_TV_station_releases_new_Abu_0215.html

An Australian network aired them. This isn't all of them - there are 60 total - that the Australian network had.

[Swamp Rat]

12. thanks n/t

:puke:

[countryjake]

24. More can be seen here, too...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11923.htm

[countryjake]

29. And others here...

http://today.reuters.com/tv/videoStory.aspx?isSummitStory=False&storyId=8bfb413cb025e432b48178d66a18af6b6b3fd557

[countryjake]

37. And here's a Guardian article...note some were "Too Graphic To Be Aired"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1710360,00.html

~snip~

"SBS said it had obtained a file of hundreds of images and that many of them depicted dead bodies, bloody injuries and acts of sexual humiliation that were too graphic to be aired."

[Solly Mack]

43. Thank you, countryjake!

The more links the better.

[countryjake]

56. I came back here specifically to find them...

and had quite the time trying to do that, what with all the Cheney-shooting-crony BS that this site is awash in right now. Pretty frustrating when this place used to be the best info source on the net. It doesn't hurt to consolidate all the links into one post, since they're dropping so quickly.

Anyway, since you mentioned it, here's yet another. It's a British newscast, (watch the video) today on Channel 4, with a good statement from Chris Anders of the ACLU & some photos that I hadn't seen at any of the other links.

http://www.channel4.com/news/special-reports/special-reports-storypage.jsp?id=1751

[Solly Mack]

57. Thanks again - perhaps you could start a thread with all the links?

and then we can keep it kicked and up front?


Thanks again!

[Nite Owl]

3. Where are they?

I'm just getting here catching up on the news of today.

[countryjake]

14. Besides the link that Solly provided...

here's another topic on them, with links to the original article & Dateline program from Australia.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=413946&mesg_id=413946

[seabeyond]

5. do you really think the muslim world doesn't know this SHIT is

happening to their people. they are ALREADY well aware what the american soldiers are and have been doing to the iraqi people. the concern should be more an outrage that we are allowing this to happen to the people instead of oooops evidence appears. the evidence that proves what people .... people all over the world, has been yelling about as our president pretends it isn't happening yet still insisting on being allowed to do it, signing a torture bill but putting in a stipulation that he doesn't have to follow it

i am not GETTING you question here.

[FearofFutility]

I know that they are already well aware of what has been

and is being done. You don't think that actually seeing pictures will have any impact?

[seabeyond]

16. and if their is an impact, who takes responsibility. the U.S.

bush, the people that are doing the tortures. and we suffer the repercussion for doing something so horrendous without considering or caring what said repercussions would be

[FearofFutility]

26. They'll never take responsibility or make anyone accountable

Except of course the low men on the totem pole.

[seabeyond]

30. of course they will not. then it is our job to kick americans in the butt

for them to hold the administration accountable since repugs are such wusses they cant do it themselves

[FearofFutility]

32. Repugs are wusses? I see them as enablers

They believe that these "terrorists" deserve what they get. They support this shit.

[seabeyond]

38. i think a person is a wuss if they cant own up their wrong

and yes they think they deserve it and validate it and justify it. but we were talking about bush owning what he did, is doing. it is throughout the policy and choices of both bushco and repugs that they fuck up time and again and blame others. that is a wuss. my kids cant get away with that. i expect my kids to be more couragous than that. i think it is wussy.

[FearofFutility]

39. How about enabling wussies? Works for me.

:hi:

[seabeyond]

40. wink

:thumbsup:

[countryjake]

7. Any fallout...

from the photos couldn't be any worse than the fallout that happens when people are treated in such a manner. We reap what we've sown & those seeds were planted long ago. Just because Americans are just being made aware of such despicable actions doesn't mean that the majority of the rest of world are in the dark about how we really operate!

[MnFats]

8. i agree....

on top of the cartoon characterizations of the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) this could be real trouble.
i DO believe, though, that they had to come out sometime....
question is, will those in power find them outrageous enough to do something about them?
Are we a nation that countenances torture? It sure as hell seems so.

saw a bumper sticker: "We're creating enemies faster than we can kill them," sadly funny. a little. maybe.

[FearofFutility]

13. I definitely agree that these needed to come out

Will they have any impact here? I sure as hell hope so.

[Trevelyan]

21. A US General in Iraq was the one who said "We are creating enemies faster

than we can kill them." and went on to say that diplomatic approaches were needed that the US military can't kill all of them and he was quoted in the MSM.

[Just Me]

9. Well, OF COURSE, it will increase the outrage!!!

Why didn't those heartless, buttheaded, BushCO/neoconster corporacrats think about that BEFORE they decided to set up torture camps all over the damn world!?!?!?!

I'll tell you why: BECAUSE THEY DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT LAWS OR HUMAN RIGHTS AND THEY WANT THE OUTRAGE AND TURMOIL!!! It feeds their profiteering scheme. Evil pricks!!! EW!!! :grr:

[DearAbby]

10. The whole world already knew about this.

It is this secretive administration and their lapdog media that have been keeping this from the American people. The world has already known about this and reported on it.

[FearofFutility]

31. I understand that the whole world already knew about this

Actually seeing them, though. They are just sickening.

[The Stranger]

11. WHAT ABOUT FREE SPEECH?

I SUPPORT FREE SPEECH AGAINST THE VIOLENT BACKLASH.

We need to support the torturers against the violent backlash of the Muslims.

:sarcasm:

[Disturbed]

17. The Bush Regime wants to pretend that they...

have punished all of those that were responsible for these vile acts.

[FearofFutility]

19. I never said that there shouldn't be a backlash

I'm simply pointing out that there is rioting now over cartoons and things are going to get a whole lot worse.

[The Stranger]

22. I was just using sarcasm to show the bogus nature of the free speech

spin on the racist and bigoted cartoons run by Daniel Pipes' buddy.

Although the response to the cartoons is not a free speech issue, ironically, the unconstitutional refusal to release photographs (per the First Amendment to the Constitution) is a free speech issue.

But don't bother them with the facts. They have trouble seeing through the media spin and media lies.

[countryjake]

28. You are so right!

The irony here is too painful!

I wonder what Hersch will say about this "dribbling" release of the rest of the photos. Some have speculated that these are the "tamest" of the bunch & the worst are yet to come.



Here is Reuters take on the story:

http://today.reuters.com/tv/videoStory.aspx?isSummitStory=False&storyId=8bfb413cb025e432b48178d66a18af6b6b3fd557

[FearofFutility]

34. I'm dense sometimes

You are right on.

[Solly Mack]

15. I'd be more concerned if there wasn't outrage

Outrage over torture I understand. Allowing a nation to get away with torture is something I don't understand. People calling torture "frat pranks" is something I don't understand.

[Just Me]

25. Yes. Allowing this administration to "get away" with instituting this,...

,...this torture policy is most disturbing, next to all the people suffering as a result (and, in some way/shape/form, that would be ALL of us,...all of us suffer).

Justice. Where is the justice? How can these f*ckers get away with so many violations of law, of humanity?

;(

[FearofFutility]

27. There will be outrage in the Muslim world, but will there be

outrage here? Doubt it.

[Solly Mack]

42. by here , do you mean America? In America the same people

will be outraged that have always been outraged by torture...and the same people who call torture "frat pranks" will once again attempt to downplay such savage behavior as frat pranks.


Bush will continue to claim "America doesn't torture"
The Pentagon will continue to claim "The guilty have already been punished"

Or do you mean something else by outrage?

[FearofFutility]

48. I meant America

You're right. Nothing will be different this time around.

[iconoclastNYC]

18. Link to video fo the entire report here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2462659&mesg_id=2462659

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. Frankly, I think the furor was whipped up over the cartoons so as to

prove a point why the photos shouldn't be shown.

[FearofFutility]

23. I think you could be right n/t

[Trevelyan]

33. Please visit the following Anti-Torture sites and sign petitions

or Solidarity Letters to help stop these sickening Crimes Against Humanity:

http://www.CagePrisoner.com
http://www.WitnessToTorture.com
http://www.HumanRightsFirst.com
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/notorture
http://www.tellthetruthabouttorture.org/
http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/home.asp

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/torture_blair_faces_allegations_torture_complicity.htm
Gitmo isn't "secret" I'm pretty sure non-governmental agencies can at least learn the existence and names of prisoners there. The black prisons are much, much worse... we won't even admit to their existence.

"we have to work... the dark side, if you will"
-Vice President Cheney, as quoted in Newsweek:grr:

http://action.aclu.org/site/PageServer?pagename=AP_effective_activism

Becoming an Effective and Efficient Activist

You owe it to yourself to become as effective as you can. By learning new skills or honing existing skills, you are more likely to have an impact and achieve the results you desire. For example, if you learn how to get a letter to the editor published before sitting down and writing one, you are more likely to get it published

[FearofFutility]

35. Thank you for the links.

I'm on it.

[Just Me]

36. Thank you. Have you posted this in the activists forum, as well?

:hi:

[thebigidea]

41. yeah, forget the fact that we've been torturing. The PICS are the problem!

[FearofFutility]

46. Who said anything about forgetting the fact that we torture?

Not me. I was simply expressing the anxiety I feel about further violence and rioting. If you read through the thread, you would know how I feel about the pictures and their release. Nice knee jerk response.

[thebigidea]

53. i'm not specifically talking about you, i'm ridiculing the media response

its been all over FOX and CNN, much more concern over those crazy Muslim barbarian "savages" and what they might do, not the fact that we sanctioned and approved such activity, with the contrators, MI, and higher ups getting off scott free and/or promoted.

and if there's anything that deserves "fallout," its an out of control empire raping, torturing, and building a global network of secret prisons.

[FearofFutility]

55. Oh, sorry

I haven't been watching.

[lakeguy]

44. personally, i'm a bit scared to be an american living in europe.

when i travel with other people, i only speak english if i have to. bush and his illegal war have brought such a freaking shit storm of hatred against our country that i think it will be a VERY long time until we are liked, much less respected anywhere in the world. an American student i know got randomly beat up in SWEDEN a few months ago. don't know if it was because he was an American but there was no other reason. broad daylight, didn't take his money...just beat him up. never even heard of ANYONE getting beat up (except for the occasional bar fight) in my town until this incident.

[FearofFutility]

51. I understand your fear

My mother has a house in France, and she's been trying to get me to vacation there with her. I do plan on going once I get over my fear of flying, but I feel like I'll have a big target on my forehead.

[remfan]

45. Fallout and outrage should begin at home

That was a POLICY decided by OUR government, done in OUR names, and done under the GISE of "keeping us safe".

Donald Rumsfeld needs to be FIRED. He shouldn't be allowed to resign, he needs to be FIRED and it needs to happen right fucking now.

And that asshat that they sent over there from Gitmo in order to jump start this fucking POLICY of torture should be fired, as well. Abu Gonzales, and Yoo, and all the fuckwits that had a hand in this POLICY should be fired. And you know who should start banging the drums for them to be fired? The people in THIS country.

That's not even a fraction of the outrage I'm feeling. What the Muslim world does, or how it reacts isn't what concerns me. What concerns me is how THIS country reacts. This is NOT something that a better public relations campaign can fix. Karen Hughes can't wave her magic PR wand and make this shit go away.

[FearofFutility]

47. You're right. We , Americans, need to stand up and say no

more. Not in our name.

[Bucky]

49. Please note, however, that they are better off without Saddam

Well, not counting the dead ones, anyway.

[Jacobin]

52. repeat it over and over enough

and you can become a freeper!!

Wonder how the Iraqis really feel about that

[Jacobin]

50. Whats the fallout from telling the truth?

Hey, when you commit atrocities,sometimes the fallout sucks. Ask Hitler's minions how they felt after the war crimes trials.

Is that any reason not to tell the truth? To protect CRIMINALS?

[FearofFutility]

54. Once again, Did I say they shouldn't have been released?

No! Simply stating my anxiety over further violence and rioting. See, I don't like it when innocent people are hurt and/or killed.

[Jacobin]

59. then maybe the lesson is we shouldn't treat people that

way expecting it to be kept quiet and then more people won't get killed

[Freedom_Aflaim]

58. I think they are more upset over the cartoon

Its not rational I know, but it seems as though they are used to being tortured, but not so used to seeing silly drawings of Mohammed.

Misplaced priorities to be sure, but folks who are burning buildings and killing over a cartoon, well I don't expect them to be balanced.