I have never been so angry and depressed

[CatWoman]

It all spiraling out of control.

This once great country is now a political landmine, a filthy cesspool, led by an incompetent retard who likes to play dress up in military uniforms who in turn is led by a vicious, old greedy unconscionable bastard.

Their cheerleaders and support groups are no more than a lot of hypocritical pack animals, who prod them and applaud the utter destruction of all we held dear.

I have a coworker who had the nerve to spout that "Clintons had Vince Foster murdered" bullshit to me. She also brought up Whitewater.

I first started to argue with her and try to set her straight. I was really pissed.

Instead I sent her several links/stories, among them the Snopes debunking of the right wing lies that permeate civilized conversation.

And yesterday I lent her my DVD of "The Hunting of the President".

My point is, after all this time, why are we still defending against this bullshit?

For 8 long years, after investigation after investigation to the tune of $70 million, that garbage is still being repeated ad nauseum, all the time Bush and Cheney keep getting away with their many crimes against mankind.

[patrice]

1. Because not enough of our "leaders" do not have Public Discourse

They're hiding. Leaders who hide.

Too many people do not accept the responsibilities of Educating themselves on the Issues.

Money Rules through Media.

[serryjw]

2. Is this rhetorical?

I work with a fundie doing petitioning. We have had screaming matches in the middle of a supermarket. I gave up and won't talk to them any more. There will always be 40% who think * is great and will never believe any of the truth. They think(??) MSM is liberal!

[Ladyhawk]

3. Defending against all this bullshit.

Do what they do. Change the subject.

Whenever I bring up something horrible the shrub admin has done, freepers always respond with something Clinton did (or supposedly did) or something a Democrat did (or supposedly did). This seems especially stupid to me since I am not exactly married to the Democratic Party and don't necessarily support anyone with a (D) next to his or her name. Freepers think this is an effective argument because they're in lock step. Also, they probably don't have an answer to a criticism of Der Chimpenfuhrer, so they change the subject.

Do it right back to them. Anytime they bring up "Clinton this" or "Kerry that" change the subject. Then they'll change the subject. Then you change the subject. Just keep doing this. :D I bet they will eventually get mad and yell at you for changing the subject. Remember when they did it first, point it out, watch heads explode.

I wish I were brave enough to try this because I think it would be a hoot to watch. :)

[vademocrat]

4. Mark Twain summed it up this way:

"The history of our race, and each individual's experience, are sown thick with
evidence that a truth is not hard to kill and that a lie told well is immortal."

Just remember you are not alone - although some days it feels like it!

:hug:

[CrazyOrangeCat]

5. Rush Limpballs.

He's the reason for the season.

Mean, lying, chickenhawk, fat-ass oxy-moran.

He's the worst thing that ever came down the pike.

I watched his effect on college-educated, supposedly "normal" co-workers, in the nineties.

I still can't believe that people are so willing to give up thinking for themselves. But I saw it in great detail, happening in large numbers.

There's a lot of middle-aged white guys who desparately need to be . . . sheep.

:shrug:

[I Have A Dream]

15. I agree that he's a big part of the problem. n/t

[caledesi]

24. Totally agree. He is at the core of all of this. nt

[Mythsaje]

32. We walked into a machine shop

the other day (I'm training for a new job with another delivery driver) and I heard Rush on their shop radio. The second I walked outside I turned and looked at the driver I was training with and said "They had Rush Limbaugh on. That's a lot like sniffing glue."

She laughed at that.

She's an apolitical liberal, one of those who don't follow politics because it's just too aggravating. I can understand it, but I wish it weren't so.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

35. Sniffing glue . . .

. . . yeah, you're right. Wonder which activity kills brain cells faster?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Brainwashing is most effective

when the brainwashers have control of the media. Too many people think that for something to be true, it has to be presented on the TV news.

[FreedomAngel82]

49. And than they

have the nerve to claim "liberal media." :mad:

[varkam]

7. You want to know why?

A large part of it, I think, is due to the media's laziness. As soon as the right-wing f*cknuts on tv and radio start hollering about the private sex life of a president, the rest of the media figures it's solid (Why, Limbaugh couldn't say it if it wasn't true) - and so they ran with it. The tail then wagged the dog so to speak, as that's what the majority of Americans started caring about because that's what was on the news.

Also, the right-wing has muuuch deeper pockets than the left wing. Conservative billionaires are a dime a dozen (no pun intended), whereas liberal / progressive fat cats are a rare find indeed.

But why is it still around? Well, because all these conservative apologists keep hearing about the screw ups of this administration and like to bring back 'Well, Clinton wasn't so great either you know...he had Vincent Foster murdered and he got a hummer from an intern!' and they somehow equate that stuff with the prevarications that are ongoing on in the white house. Sh*t. There are so many scandals swirling about that I've lost count. But don't be too discouraged, if the best defense these dittoheads have to offer is to spread dubious rumors about an administration that's six years prior, then they've got bigger problems to worry about.

[Tsiyu]

8. Propaganda works well

Remember that Rightwing blowhards like Limpballs have been spouting this crap for years.

Rather than address the scandalous acts of this administration, they trot over to the excuse box and pull out CLinton's penis. If they're digging back to Whitewater, they really are desperate.

Don't you see how well you handled it, though? :applause: You countered her bogus story with facts.

You made me think of a comeback:

"That is so-o-o-o-o last century." Then you laugh and walk away shaking your head while repeating aloud your favorite names for all of the scandals today.....

:hug: You are NOT alone. :grouphug:

[EstimatedProphet]

29. That's exactly what you should do

Laugh at them and call them stupid. Point at them and laugh loud. Yell at the top of your lungs "Hey everybody, look at how stupid this person is!"

They will not pay attention to facts. they refuse to listen to logic and reason. They go out of their way to apologize for being screwed by the administration, and turn to idiotic flag-waving. They are therefore truly stupid. the only thingh that will get through to them is being embarrassed for their beliefs.

[brook]

9. I know the feeling.

Some days I just want to scream; others, I'd like to climb under the covers and sleep til it's over. Then I ask myself if it ever will be over. It's scary as hell.

I fight it with whatever 'acts of activism' I can muster and by taking short breaks. A brandy before bed helps sometimes. But my heart always seems to be crying: "Where's my country?" in the background.

I've about given up on those like your co-worker. Their willful ignorance just sucks the life out of me.

[ChiciB1]

10. Beats Me!! I'm Fresh Out Of Optimism And/Or Ideas...

I'm sitting right next to you and I presume hundreds of thousands of others. Yet, here we are, STILL SITTING!

When I first started talking about REVOLUTION, basically a rising up by THE PEOPLE to take BACK America, it was a "budding" idea. Now, I think it is going to be the ONLY solution to the whole "Mess-O-Reclaimia" of what USED to be America!

Sadly, for me it's the only thing I think we can do to STOP this GES-TOP-OOOOOO!! It's NOT what I thought I would have ever thought was the BEST way, but now unfortunately I think it's going to be the ONLY way!!

If ANYONE has a better idea, a better way to hit 'em hard and make 'em pay, I'll sign on... but I've seen NOTHING that has worked so far!

I hate to think that we have to strap on our holsters, and come out shooting! I'm SICK and tired of being SICK & TIRED!!

[Conker]

11. I see what you mean.

I don't think the U.S. will ever return to it's greatness again.It will most likely only get worse.I always feel so embarassed, and angry to be an American these days.

[CountAllVotes]

23. I embrace being an American

I am proud to be an American citizen. I love this country. It makes me very sad to see what has happened to it.

I try to find hope. It is difficult admittedly. However, there are many that believe there is hope.

And We the People must KEEP HOPE ALIVE!

As for angry, yes.

Anger fuels energy. Energy becomes power.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

:dem: :kick:

[johnaries]

12. I had a freeper co-worker bring up Vince Foster this week, too,

while we were discussing Fuddgate. First time it's been brought up in a couple of years. This is definitely co-ordinated bullshit.

Hi, Catwoman, I was looking for you the other day to give you a heart but I couldn't find you. I guess I'll just have to settle for this:
:loveya:

[CatWoman]

19. awwwwwwwww

thanks

:loveya:

I was on the Mike Luckovich board earlier this week.

This one guy, who is a Michelle Malkin devotee, spouted that shit about being safer hunting with Cheney as opposed to driving with Ted Kennedy.

I said let's stick with driving, shall we?

I'd much rather drive with Ted over Laura Bush. Any day.

How can you trust someone who was supposedly sober and then commits vehicular homicide?

Besides, can you imagine trying to have a meaningful, intelligent conversation with that borg of a woman?

[tenshi816]

38. That would make a good bumper sticker:

I'd rather ride with Ted than Laura.

[BlueEyedSon]

13. "clinton was no angel" is not an excuse for having satan push our

hand-basket straight into hell at high speed....

[I Have A Dream]

14. I think some of it has to do with lying E-mail campaigns.

Lately, I've received E-mails that have utterly stupid quotes from Dan Quayle attributed to people like Al Gore. In these E-mails, they're always careful to put ONE stupid conservative quote so that when you state the truth that it's a conservative smear campaign and you point out the lying in the post, they can say "But look, it can't be a conservative smear campaign because looky here at this one quote where they're making fun of Bush". (And it's not even that bad of a quote out of all of the things for which they could have made fun of him.)

I also recently received an E-mail stating something about Al Gore with Oliver North and Osama Bin Laden that was an out and out lie, and I passed the Snopes article about it to everyone who was sent it by the orignal sender.

It seems that many people on the right don't mind lying if it helps their side politically, and they don't even seem to mind receiving things that are lies as long as it supports their world view. I don't understand this, but I think that these lie campaigns are at least part of the problem, and I don't know how we can effectively combat them.

[EstimatedProphet]

30. That's true, they don't

They don't care if they lie to make their point. They forget that if you have to lie to make your point, IT MEANS YOUR POINT IS WRONG!

[Dr.Phool]

31. I got the Gore, North, and Osama one too.

I replied to the sender that Al Gore was not on the Iran-Contra Committee, and enclosed a link that listed all the committee members and staff.

I also said that while North was asked that question during the hearings, that's not the answer he gave, that in fact Osama was working FOR the CIA in Afghanistan during the hearings. (also with links)

[Serenades]

16. America

To some American citizens the country never has been what many on this board think it once was . . .

Many of us never had the rights that are "legally" disappearing right now . . .

Many of us were tormented by terror groups whose members were apart of local governments as the national government turned a blind eye . . .

Many of us never had the voting rights that many enjoyed (at least, up until Bush took over) . . .

Many of us never had a chance of econmonic prosperity because of ingrained racism and/or sexism . . .

Many of us were always tortured, had our clothes ripped off and paraded around naked, were hung from trees, had our genitals cut off, were made out to be barbarians without souls, etc.

Many of us have always been fighting bullshit and misinformation in the media for all of our lives . . .

I think the America that a lot of you guys say that you miss never existed.

Welcome to the fight that some of us have been fighting since America's inception.

[ChiciB1]

26. And For YOU... I'm A Bleeding Heart LIBERAL!!

As a white female, who basically grew up in the South because my father was in the military (Ft. Hood, TX) I REMEMBER some of what you are talking about. I REMEMBER different water fountains and bathrooms AND even not letting some of the BEST athletes eat or stay in the same places as whites!

But I also remember the HEARTS of some people who actually tried to fight for the RIGHTS of others!

TODAY, I don't SEE ANY FIGHT!! So it IS different and I for one will forever say I'm sorry for what Americans did to you and yours. I've ALWAYS felt that way!! My father taught me many many lessons about the less fortunate and I grant you I wasn't born to wealth. I come from a family of six girls and my fathr WASN'T an officer! But I was born white and I for one know just HOW much more fortunate that made me.

I've gotten into so many extremely heated discussions with others about how I feel about this, but I still feel the same. As a "Boomer" we did think we were standing up for something, but now I wonder just what we ever got!

[JanMichael]

34. Stop it or the white middle class cretins who miss their "freedoms" will..

...attack!

Seriously I agree with you 100%. Mass delusion is a tough mindset to fight.

[cynatnite]

17. Don't be doing the work for those bushbots...

Make them be the ones to prove the crap they spew. I'm sick of us doing the work to disprove the bullshit. Tell them to either put up or shut up. It's as simple as that.

[acmejack]

18. It's a huge problem.

On the one hand you want to explain to them exactly what type of idiot they are and the myriad reasons you will never bother to speak to them again, on the other you know they are the person you must sway if you truly believe in all this democracy that we're fond of talking about.

I know your frustrations all too well and am so close to taking the former option, but the truth of the matter is that we have to wake these people up, they are our fellow Americans, who have been separated from us by the politics of division used by our opponents. Simply tell them that Clinton is history W has been in office for 5 years, this is now and what is happening in the present is so important we must discuss it. Try to use the outrage of the day (Ports sale right now) to gain that sense of immediacy.

[JohnnyRingo]

20. We all share days like this

With wing-nuts channeling Limbaugh I hear canned comments as well.
"I hear Whittington snuck up on him"
"Sheehan just likes publicity"
"Clinton did the very same thing"
"There's no NSA spying, the NYT is just trying to sell books"
"Anyone who knows quail hunting knows you get peppered all the time"
"That oil in Iran belongs to us"

I've heard all these statements in recent weeks from "barstool Republicans", and while all of them have proven unfounded, there's no point in going overboard to try and change the minds of these fans of propaganda.

I think some people were so pumped about voting for the "Great Christian" they continually seek affirmation in the face of one bad news story after another. While reality flies consistently in the face of what they want to believe, the radio personalities supply them with half baked rationales to fire back at dissenters.

Don't get too upset with the frustration of trying to keep up with them. just avoid them when it becomes overwhelming. On good days it can even be amusing.

I do understand your anxiety with these people. I have many days like this too.

21. I wonder if there has ever been a more fake president

I know politicians are known for their facile abilities, but Bush seems an odd combination of shallowness and thievery, like a chimera, like none other.

[caledesi]

22. CW - I feel your pain. After I heard about the wiretapping not

being investigated, I about lost it. I have never felt so vulnerable, emasculated (guess you can use that word for a female), and totally helpless in all my life. This is not the country I grew up in.

I do believe in Karma, so if we get the House back - let the games begin!

[CatWoman]

25. the wiretap non investigation is also the thing that

pushed me over the edge.

I mean: where the fuck is the outrage?

Does ANYONE care?

[pat_k]

27. More learn the truth every day. Once learned, it is not unlearned. . .

. . .the numbers can only go one way.

When people see the fascists for what they are, they never go back to ignorance.

When they learn that the Bush regime have committed torture and countless other atrocities in our name, they do not unlearn it.

When people learn the horrible truth about the stolen Presidential elections of 2000 and 2004 they do not unlearn it.

When they recognize that the voting systems and practices used in our elections are so clearly flawed that the results in nearly every state are wide open to corruption by systematic vote suppression, data manipulation, human and machine error, and consequently, willful fraud, they don't unlearn it.

When they learn that demonstrable errors and anomalous patterns of result have rendered all "official" election results suspect -- and that the systems and processes implemented by "experts" now make it impossible for us to rule out corruption without further investigation and audit, they don't unlearn it.

When viewed from any single vantage point, progress is never experienced as a linear phenomenon. Things go along, seemingly unchanged, even though "under the surface" countless acts and events are moving people. Big swings and changes seem to erupt overnight.

It is impossible to know WHEN critical mass will be reached. The "long hard slog" could end tomorrow.

The wind is at our backs. The numbers can only go one way. Overthrow of the fascist regime could happen within months. In these truths we can find the confidence and hope we need to act. And every act -- however small -- has consequences.

[chat_noir]

42. Bush cabal 14 point of Fascism

great resource!

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

[Mr.Green93]

28. In ten thousand years,

none of this will matter.

[happydreams]

33. Sometimes I think the CIA perfected

drugs and/or social psychological manipulation (religion, peer pressure) mind control techniques to create the perfect Manchurian idiot.

Just some thoughts.

[stlsaxman]

36. Next time she brings up Clinton remind her that

Clinton was impeached for shooting someone in the face, and he wasn't even drunk!

:hide: --"Sorry- I couldn't resist that"

[chaumont58]

37. Clinton gets it from both sides:

This from Digby's latest:

(I certainly would agree that Clinton was the best Republican president of my lifetime.)

I think calling Clinton a repuke is as crazy as calling him a murderer, but it happens a lot.

[wtmusic]

39. .

you and me both

:hug:

Patriot Act renewed...wiretapping OK'd...this week has been FUBAR

[CatWoman]

40. what do you mean that "wiretapping is OK'd"?

did I miss something?

Other than the Roberts story?

[wtmusic]

41. Senate Rejects Wiretapping Probe

Roberts' comment was the tip of the iceberg:

"The Bush administration helped derail a Senate bid to investigate a warrantless eavesdropping program yesterday after signaling it would reject Congress's request to have former attorney general John D. Ashcroft and other officials testify about the program's legality. The actions underscored a dramatic and possibly permanent drop in momentum for a congressional inquiry, which had seemed likely two months ago."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/16/AR2006021602155_pf.html

They will string out Kennedy's ruling on the documents just like they are with the ACLU's Abu Ghraib document request--for years.

[MGKrebs]

43. Cat, you're angry and depressed and wonder where the outrage is?

Many people don't want to put themselves through what you are feeling. Musch easier to skip right to the Jessica Simpson divorce update. Let somebody else worry about what the politicians are doing.

I don't know what it's going to take before enough people get upset so that this shit stops, but every day that goes by in the meantime makes it worse and probably harder to change.

I think of people like John Lewis and Coretta Scott King, who fight or fought their battles for their whole lives, and hundreds or thousands of others who do so with no recognition at all. We all have a (sometimes little) role to play, and the battle never ends.



Love is the answer.

[libnnc]

44. 'Cause it's all they've got.

It's anemic, weak--but it's all they've got in their tool box. We're armed not only with common sense but with a healthy load of facts and figures based in reality. They operate outside reality. They don't have to form opinion based on fact. They form opinion based on fairy-tales. It's sad really.

[applegrove]

45. Pace yourself Cat. We need ya in the run up to Nov. 2006!

Here you are opening the newspaper the morning of Nov 4, 2006!

[linazelle]

47. I don't understand why everybody's looking forward to Nov. 06

when election theft is rampant? What's all the optimism about?

[applegrove]

50. Because we have the numbers beyond which elections can be stolen.

I may not agree on the ways and means the electorate was fooled with you - but the amount of support is beyond which any form of electoral malfeasance can beat.

However you think they are poisoning the system - "whatever your poison" - they don't have the numbers. And they will not.

See the post by G2099:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=463910&mesg_id=463910


See this poll. GOP only has 7 states. That would be a landslide for the Dems in Nov 2006.

http://www.surveyusa.com/50State2006/50StateBushApproval060216Approval.htm

They only have Utah, Idaho, Alabama, Wyoming, Nebraska, Oklahoma & Montana.


If you were do elect the president in 2006 - Dems would have 502 Electoral college votes. GOP 36. That means Dems would win with 93% of the vote.

Not bad.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/blelectoralb.htm

[Straight Shooter]

46. My response to the Vince Foster and the Clinton body count bullsh*t.

Come on, if Clinton were as bad as that, why didn't he have Monica whacked? Honestly. He at least could have had thugs go through her home and search for any incriminating evidence. He could have had thugs approach her and make her an offer she couldn't refuse. Nothing has happened to one single solitary soul who participated in the Clinton witch hunt. In fact, some of them have even thrived, courtesy of the GOP.

Ain't it funny how anyone who criticized President Clinton never had anything negative happen to them, while bush, on the other hand, if you criticize him, suddenly your world tends to collapse on you, you're smeared, your personal and professional reputation are attacked. If people find this hard to believe, just look at what happened to Paul O'Neill, Richard Clarke, Rep. Murtha, and others who criticized bush and suddenly found themselves a target of smears and innuendo.

People need to take a big step back and look at what Clinton has done to get revenge against criticism, and what bush, cheney, et al., have done. Clinton has done nothing to go after those who went after him. We don't have time to list what bush has done against his "enemies."

On a final note, imagine anyone apologizing to Clinton for getting in the way of his shotgun. Ha!

Edit to add: Clinton always attacked the message. The bush administration always attacks the messenger.

[FreedomAngel82]

48. Because they're ignorant asses

Same thing with Ted Kennedy. When someone brings that up to me I bring up Laura and George Bush.