We Are Going to War with Iran

[meganmonkey]

Listen up, folks, this is getting really serious. As some of you know, the House passed a resolution last Thursday to refer Iran to the UN Security Council in response to their nuclear ambitions. You may have missed the story, however, seeing as how practically no one (except "conspiracy sites" which I cannot post here) covered this event.

Here is a link about it with an acceptable source:
http://www.africasia.com/services/news/newsitem.php?area=mideast&item=060216175917.9c3doqyv.php

Here is the LBN thread about it from Thursday:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2113015#2113289

As you also may know, Russia has been trying to work on a compromise with Iran on uranium enrichment. Again, not a lot of press, and a thread I started on it yesterday got all of 4 replies (2 of which were my own :blush: ) :http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2119203&mesg_id=2119203

This compromise would allow Russia to do the actual enrichment of uranium for Iran, thus ensuring it was in controlled quantities and making it much easier to track its use.

However, as Dennis Kucinich pointed out in the ridiculously short and one-sided debate about the House resolution:

“This bill scuttles the only possibility for a peaceful resolution of this crisis. Namely, the offer, by Russia, to enrich uranium for Iran to use in its nuclear power plants. Iran would not operate any enrichment processing facilities of its own, and therefore would not have the ability to make isotopes of uranium suitable for weapons. This is the essence of a resolution offered by Russia to avert the crisis. This is the only diplomatic option available to us today."


BTW, only Dennis and Ron Paul (R-TX) spoke out against this House Bill. They are the only people who pointed out that this is playing out JUST LIKE IRAQ and that they haven't even bothered to change the script. Again, quoting Kucinich,

"“The Administration, covered by this bill, is leading this country to take military action against Iran. Make no mistake, that is the US program at the UN, just as it was prior to the invasion of Iraq in 2003."
(link to DKs complete statement: http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=39584 ).

I am not naive enough to believe that a compromise with Russia would be a given, but I do believe that the more our gov't works to make compromise impossible the more likely we are to unleash something horrible in the Middle East. How soon until we hear Bush on TV saying "they gave us no choice - they refused to compromise" ? If you think the Iraq War with its mutilated children, permanently damaged soldiers, prison torture and millions of new enemies is bad, just you wait. Because it will only get worse - for everyone.

Regardless of your feelings toward Iran and it's government, we DO NOT NEED TO GO TO WAR WITH IRAN!!! And we know from Iraq that we cannot trust Bushco to tell the truth about why a war is necessary - as this WaPo article states, our own intelligence says it will be 10 years until they could possibly have a nuclear weapon. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/01/AR2005080101453.html

Please, you guys, take the time to write your Senators and Congresspeople, talk to your friends and families, put signs on your cars, spread the word. The lies are already coming out in full force and we have to counter them. Otherwise we are well on our way to the deadly, bloody sequel to the Iraq War.

DON'T BELIEVE THE LIES!
STOP THIS WAR BEFORE IT STARTS.

There has got to be a better way. This is not my America.


:patriot:

[Avalux]

1. Yes, I believe we are.

With the sale of the ports and what I know about PNAC, it's inevitable. This is no longer about countries, IMHO. This is about the powerful of the world controlling the world and all of its resources - as Americans, we are no different than ordinary Iraqis or Iranians to these powermongers - the "lesser" people of the world are expendable in any country as long as they get what they want.

[berni_mccoy]

2. If we do, I fear what side China and Russia will take...(WWIII)

[951-Riverside]

5. They will take Bush's side

There is no way in hell they are going to defend a brown nation such as iran especially Russia.

[berni_mccoy]

22. "a brown nation such as Iran" ?!?!?

What the...?

[951-Riverside]

27. I usually see these things as Browns Vs. Whites

Whites will always stick tegather and lie if they have to its racisim plain and simple, ever wonder why they never get worked up when a white nation pursues nuclear weapons, power, etc?

[meganmonkey]

25. You have got to be kidding

See post #12 if you would like to educate yourself on this rather than continuing to make racist, ignorant comments.

Peace

[mod mom]

8. This AP article isn't sounding too promising:

Russia Warns U.S. Against Striking Iran ("May stir the WHOLE WORLD")



Associated Press
Russia Warns U.S. Against Striking Iran
By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV , 02.16.2006, 11:29 AM

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/ap/2006/02/16/ap2532379.html


Russia's top military chief on Thursday warned the United States against launching a military strike against Iran and a top diplomat voiced hope that close cooperation with China could help resolve the Tehran nuclear crisis.

With tension mounting over Iran's nuclear programs, Gen. Yuri Baluyevsky, the chief of Russia's general staff, warned the United States against attacking Iran.

"A military scenario can't be ruled out," Baluyevsky was quoted as saying by Russian news agencies. He said that while Iran's military potential cannot compare to the United States', "it is hard to predict how the Muslim world will respond to the use of force against Iran."

"This may stir the whole world, and it is crucial to prevent anything like that," Baluyevsky was quoted as saying.

[Kierkegaard]

17. Reasonable fear, in my estimation.

There is no doubt which side they will ally with: the one that will help them avoid a similar fate...

[Strelnikov_]

18. Neutral. I Think Paul Craig Roberts Nailed It

Chindia and Russia will facilitate things up to a point, but then stand aside and let the US further weaken themselves.

High oil prices can only benefit Russia. Chindia can outbid us for the high priced oil, and be in a good position to step into the mideast once things calm down and cut deals with the oil suppliers.

If the 'enemy' is destroying themselves, don't get in the way.

[EuroObserver]

37. That (Eurasian) approach does appear to be realistic n/t.

[BeHereNow]

64. There is a distinction to be made here-

I believe, having followed as many of these discussions
as I find time for, that there is a very important factor
left out in every single one.

Yes, China and Russia know that the corporate empire
is destroying this country. They do not care if Americans
are destroyed one way or another. Contrary to popular
belief, our purchasing power is not really that important to them.
They have their own blossoming consumer base.
Think of China as America in the 1950's. The Chinese
are the new consumer base for the first time in
history- that is why "Western" banks have been setting up
shop there and courting the Chinese consumers. They
can't wait to give them credit cards...

Now as to the factor that is never introduced:
The multi national corporations that are
using the US military and US tax dollars to
assure THEIR interests, NOT the American PEOPLE'S
interest have most likely struck a deal with China and Russia.
My guess is that they have assured China and Russia a piece
of the Iran pie. China and Russia are not going to attack us-
they don't need to. Our very own government is doing that quite nicely.

The major power players (including China and Russia)
in the world are fully aware
of what the end result of all of this will be on the
American citizenry. Think of it as an economic Katrina.

There will be nothing left of America as we know it.
People will have few choices as to living standards
as they will essentially be reduced to third world status.

Our officials know this- it is their plan as they are
moving on to greener consumer pastures.
In short, no one cares, not the US corporate multinational
CEOs masquarading as politicians and certainly not the
Chinese or Russians.
The negotiations are about GLOBAL power restructuring and
those folks don't give a rat's ass about average Americans
or citizens any where on the planet.

We are the forgotten people- the struggle is now among the
"big boys." We are simply the economic and military
fodder in their game.

The outrage and disbelief about what is happening
is understandable. we have always thought of ourselves
as the greatest country in the world- fact is, under the
new global multi national power structure, there are no
countries, including this one. It's all about amassing
the greatest amount of POWER into the smallest number
of hands. China is far more powerful, economically
speaking, so where do you expect the mulit nationals
to go next?

My thoughts about it anyway...
BHN

[glitch]

101. The "New World Order" is feudal, with corporate owners being the new lords

And I am not talking about the minority stockholders, they have as little power as the rest of us. I am talking about the boardmembers, the same people who show up on board after board of the mega-nationals.

[Labalanza]

135. great tool to research these players:

theyrule.net

[glitch]

136. You are right, this is a great tool. Thanks for posting it. nt

[BeHereNow]

137. Agree with you 100%.

"people who show up on board after board of the mega-nationals"

Precisely.
BHN

[EVDebs]

106. World economy's GDP is $36 Trillion with US at $12 Trillion annual

Just WHO do you think will make up for the lost consumption when the impending petroeuro bourse Iran wants comes into fruition ? The ensuing downward vicious circle could trigger a worldwide depression. But, hey, that's what the rest of the world wants...give it to them in spades. Who is going to buy all those Chinese products ? Who is going to make up for the lost US consumption of those goods ? And as oil prices rise and less investment in the US takes place, well hey boys and girls, that little petroeuro bourse starts to look more and more like a losing circular file for your paper money.

Again, who makes up for the lost 20-25% of world economic consumption when the US is cut out of the picture ?

[Individualist]

95. I share your concern

IMO, they're likely to ally themselves with Iran.

[atommom]

3. This is really getting serious. Please, let's make some noise.

[papau]

4. Sadly, I believe we will bomb Iran in 1yr- I do not expect an invasion.

:-(

[tatertop]

7. They will fight back. Once the battle is joined all hell will break loose

They are expecting us to bomb them.
They are ready to fight.

[papau]

53. Iran never agrees until the cliff is reached and you begin your jump

Once the planes are in the air we will hear of a satisfactory agreement - or that Iran guessed incorrectly and we are at war.

I do not expect any real agreement before that point.

[tatertop]

56. Looking like it ain't gonna matter

I'm not even sure if backing down on the Oil Bourse would stop
Bush at this time. This invasion looks like a go.

[leveymg]

75. There will be no agreement. They're calling our bluff, not the other

way around. If we or Israel drop one bomb, Iran will launch every chemical, biological and conventional warhead in its formidable arsenal at targets throughout the region. That means the Israelis will retaliate with WMDs, as their Arrow anti-missile defense system (an upgraded Patriot) is far from perfect, after targets inside Israel are hit. The IAF and USAF will have to fly at least a thousand sorties to hit most of the Iranian target list.

At that point, there is uncontrollable escalation. The Straights get blockaded. Prices in global energy markets go ballistic. There are tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of casualties depending on whether Pakistan, Syria and others get involved, and how long the actual fighting inside and around Iran lasts. Expect an uprising of Shia inside Iraq. The surviving Iranian nuclear scientists and leadership will do their utmost to make sure that American cities get hit with radiological dirty bombs and attacks on chemical and toxic waste sites.

Nobody wins. This isn't going to happen because the Pentagon knows there's no way to avert such a cataclysmic outcome. Their job is to win wars, and to avert those where an acceptable outcome can't reasonably be expected.

The FBI, with the help of the CIA and Joint Chiefs of Staff, will arrest and remove the neocons pushing a war against Iran before this happens.

[papau]

99. I disagree as to who is bluffing - but I agree that no one wins

The FBI can and will do nothing. The JCS can and will do nothing.

The CIA might - but I doubt it - and they shouldn't. In any case the CIA will not be of one mind on something like this.

We will bomb - and we will deal with the results afterwards. Many feel that the "consequences" threaten by Iran would happen no matter what we do.

Israel is indeed no more than a forward base for US power - but an attack on Israel would make the US job a lot easier in terms of getting world support for an all out attack on Iran by a coalition of the "willing".

Indeed only China wins - but China is the 21st century winner no matter what - and while a Iranian war will hurt the US and the West more than anything else the war does - it will also delay China's eventual prosperity.

We believe we can deal with oil at %200 a barrel (the price will not last - indeed I think - hope - I foresee oil returning to the $25 - inflation adjusted - range by 2030).

Nope - the US is not bluffing - but the outcome for the US is not good if we are forced to prove that point.

[leveymg]

114. You ignore the fact that the FBI busted OSP-AIPAC, and WHIG is under

investigation by a Special Prosecutor at the insistence of the CIA and JCS. If that were not the case -- and if the same neocon cabal were not at the center of both the Iraq and Iran war crusades, and if US military vulnerabilities not been demonstrated by Iraq occupation -- then I would agree with you.

American military and intelligence professionals will not go along with Iraq time ten in Iran. The neocons are going to jail, and what will remain of this Administration is the lamest of lame ducks.

[papau]

116. I hope you are correct - The White House Iraq Group (WHIG) investigation

by the Special Prosecutor has my best wishes, but it will be useful only if Dems gain control in 06 and we move on impeachment.

OSP-AIPAC has taken an interesting turn with the revelation that someone (other than Bush?) was trying to plant bad intel on Iran via formal NSC advice to the President. AIPAC appears to be only guilty of being asked to help a very pro-Israel person advance in the US intel structure and of receiving the usual back chanel info. But the "secret" info passed on to them through the "usual Bush back chanel" being fake anti-Iran, so that it would circle back to Bush so that he could justify an actual invasion of Iran. is new and a bit scary as it is White House treason.

I still do not see either investigation stopping anything, or indicating that anyone has the power to stop anything.

I do agree that American military and intelligence professionals will not go along with an Iraq time ten in Iran - and "secret" facts will be revealed.

But if our media is as tightly controlled as is currently, those facts will be downplayed.

Diebold election theft looks like it is on schedule for 06 - it will take independent local FBI office projects to change things with this AG in charge.

I hope a Diebold free election does happen, and that we stop the war with Iran - but I expect that we will let Bush manufacture a Cliff re Iran nukes - and then he will jump off it if he does not get his way.

If the game is showing that "our crazy guy is crazier than your crazy guy", and Iran does not understand that Bush wins on "crazy", we will be bombing Iran in a year.

[leveymg]

118. Who do you think is behind the fabricated WMD campaigns?

You wrote:

OSP-AIPAC has taken an interesting turn with the revelation that someone (other than Bush?) was trying to plant bad intel on Iran via formal NSC advice to the President. AIPAC appears to be only guilty of being asked to help a very pro-Israel person advance in the US intel structure and of receiving the usual back chanel info. But the "secret" info passed on to them through the "usual Bush back chanel" being fake anti-Iran, so that it would circle back to Bush so that he could justify an actual invasion of Iran. is new and a bit scary as it is White House treason.

We know that Naor Gilon, the Mossad Chief of Station in DC, was Franklin's control officer, and that they were trying to salt DoD files with information suggested by Israeli intelligence. That much is obvious from the Franklin indictment, see particularly pp. 23-24, para 6. The AIPAC guys were trying to get Larry promoted to a seat "at the President's elbow." Is that what you're referring to, or is there someone else in USG at the center of this who hasn't been indicted? Links?

What do you know specifically about a conduit through NSC?

You also wrore: I still do not see either investigation stopping anything, or indicating that anyone has the power to stop anything.

These prosecutions indicate to me that both the JCS and CIA want to put the kabosh on further disinformation and plotting of this sort. If they wanted to take the next step, they wouldn't have had the IGs request prosecutions.

I do agree that American military and intelligence professionals will not go along with an Iraq time ten in Iran - and "secret" facts will be revealed.

Can you be more specific?

- Thanks

[papau]

119. Mossad on Iraq told us "no Iraq WMD" - the bad intel flows from our WH

to circle the world and come back as if it was other countries intel.

We do know that Naor Gilon was the Mossad Chief of Station in DC - we do not know he was Franklin's "control officer". Likewise we know that Franklin and who ever is his control officer were indeed trying to salt DoD files with information. We do not know that the information that was to be salted came from Israel - indeed it appears we gave bad info to Israel so that it would come back to us as Israeli approved intel.

I am referring to the "get Larry promoted to a seat "at the President's elbow" as the request made of the Israeli contact - but I my tinfoil hat is on and I suspect the same crowd that fed the world bad Iraq info - and then claimed the US info had been verified by other countries - is the "control" in this game. That is not to say that there are not some Israelis - some highly placed - that are neo-con like - and see war as a solution. I do not have links to any revelations on who is the real controller of Franklin - just a gut feeling.

I know specifically nothing - like it is for everyone, my opinion is a sum total of conversations and impressions.

I also feel that both the JCS and CIA want to put the kabosh on further disinformation and plotting of this sort - I just do not think they have the power under the Bush org chart.

The main specific that suggests to me that info will see the light of day - this time before the war - is the various groups of former CIA that are speaking out now. Ten years ago this would have been unthinkable.

[leveymg]

127. More . . .

You wrote:

We do know that Naor Gilon was the Mossad Chief of Station in DC - we do not know he was Franklin's "control officer". Likewise we know that Franklin and who ever is his control officer were indeed trying to salt DoD files with information. We do not know that the information that was to be salted came from Israel - indeed it appears we gave bad info to Israel so that it would come back to us as Israeli approved intel.

Gilon was "FO3" - you really should read at least the last 7-8 pages of the indictment. http://www.physics911.net/franklinpdf2.pdf
If Gilon wasn't Franklin's control, it was one of the two other intel officers - I'm using "control officer" generically. What is the term the Israelis use for agent handlers?

I am referring to the "get Larry promoted to a seat "at the President's elbow" as the request made of the Israeli contact - but I my tinfoil hat is on and I suspect the same crowd that fed the world bad Iraq info - and then claimed the US info had been verified by other countries - is the "control" in this game. That is not to say that there are not some Israelis - some highly placed - that are neo-con like - and see war as a solution. I do not have links to any revelations on who is the real controller of Franklin - just a gut feeling.

You seem to be suggesting here that Mossad and DIA were being played by some mysterious Third Force. Who do you think that might be -- a rogue Likud operation? Or, are you saying the American neocons were really in charge? Or, a combined operation, so to speak? I won't dismiss such a possibility.

There's been a lot of speculation about Mike Ledeen - how independent is he really, and would he and his merry band of dirty-tricksters really dare to try to pull one over on both the US and Israeli intel establishments? I think that's very unlikely, unless they're being protected by some organization that rivals the official US and Israeli intel agencies for power. If such a thing existed, it would be the same people behind Iran-Contra -- the "privatized" GOP-linked Old Spooks around Poppy operating with money provided by the oil multinationals and personnel linked to Right-wing Extremists, such as P-2 and the Fascist Int'l, who aren't shy about using terrorism and other extreme measures.

The main specific that suggests to me that info will see the light of day - this time before the war - is the various groups of former CIA that are speaking out now. Ten years ago this would have been unthinkable.

I would suggest that it isn't just "former" CIA who are working to put the genies back into the lamp. I see that there's been a parting of the ways among the various factions that used to collectively run US foreign policy, and that they're at war with each other. If the noecons won't go quietly, we're about one step from seeing a lot more accidents, cerebral hemorrages, heart attacks, and other early retirements among the players.

[papau]

132. I agree - with just about everything - my bet is neo-con w/rogue Likud

But the whole case hinges on Franklin being "not authorized" to discuss with FO-3 the topics discussed.

I think Franklin will do time because he will not claim he was authorized.

I think he was authorized. And Naor Gilon - nominal "control officer" - could not have authorized anything.

I note the info included in the PDF you linked to included a secret report passed to FO-3 on a mid-east country's secret weapons test - presumably in the context of a nuke program. The implication being that the Iranian "long range" (able to hit Israel) rocket tests were of rockets designed to carry the Khan design nuke war head.

Our CIA gave Khan and others in Pakistan beginning in 1958 the dollars needed and expert help as needed to design that war head. And I am sure our CIA. et al, feels responsible for where Reagan and friends have taken that effort.

Israel already knew of the "secret weapons test", so all that was being added was the nuke war head carrying implication. Whether true or not, other non-neo-con's had by then stopped covering their eyes to what the neo-con part of the US gov was doing re nuke development in Pak, and were trying to pull the US gov back.

I am seeing the same rebellion by patriots in the CIA that you are seeing. But I know nothing about wet work accidents, health problems, etc. Perhaps we do have such friends in the CIA. We do live in interesting times.

[EVDebs]

134. Leveymg, with Christian Zionists inside the WH you don't really need

an 'insider' Israeli presence to do the spying. With the belief in Greater Israel (see link in post below)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=215343

and longtime dual citizenship of guys like Dov Zackheim

Dov Zackheim, Pentagon Comptroller, Has Misplaced A Trillion $
http://cleveland.indymedia.org/news/2005/01/14509.php

a "foreign" presence isn't really necessary. BTW, the war planning for Iraq was simply the old 1973 Nixon plans to seize the Saudi oil fields slightly tweaked for use in another country. Same old dusty plans. That year 1973 is significant, however, isn't it ? Whether Zackheim was there or not is irrelevant, the Cheney/Rumsfeld neocon vulcans wanted to do this war from day one anyway. Zackheim and the others just saw a way to make a few bucks off the deal like everybody else. Religion and the 'zionism' issue are just convenient strawmen to use in any war's leadup to lend
"justification".

Oil needed a 'pretext' for war. An ongoing excuse whenever it was needed to jump into the ME. The way to inflame the ME has always been tied to the Dome of the Rock and the 'clash of religions'. When religion becomes more about real estate than anything else, this is the kind of situation you end up with. Besides, in under 30 years there won't be any more oil left to fight over anyway. Wall Street and Soviet planners only work off of five year plans anyway (well, Wall Street uses quarterly reports, but you get my point).

I favor the Amory Lovins www.oilendgame.com solution and just want to see us disengage from the ME entirely, since you can't even discuss Christianity in the area without retribution anyway, ""And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet."" (KJV) Matthew 10 : 14

The US should do a Marshall Plan for ending oil dependency entirely, but as you can see, oil men like Bush aren't up to the challenge.

[tatertop]

6. I think it's way too late to stop this

The great world wide protest against the invasion of Iraq
just made them snicker. This war is on.

[leveymg]

77. Invade Iraq - snicker, yes. War with Iran - deadly silence.

The difference this time is that the US military leadership sees no way that a war with Iran can be won at an acceptable cost, as it will spread and escalate immediately into a mass casualty war between Iran/Iraq/Syria and Israel. See my post above. Nobody's really signed off on this one.

[tatertop]

83. Bush does not care about the consequences

At least not for the American people.
I believe he has every intention of
going to war. He will sign the order
and the game will begin.

[leveymg]

86. Then, a coup may be necessary if he's not

otherwise removed from office. Indictment is a distinct possibility.

[tatertop]

92. I am wondering how this is all to work out

I will be very very surprised if Bush allows public opinion
to slow him down. Will the Democrats in Congress help us at all?
I am not hopeful.
Bush will act first and, if accused of any wrong doing,
appeal to the Supreme Court after the fact.
My guess is there will not even be sufficient fuss from
Congress to warrant a meaningful investigation.

[leveymg]

129. My expectations of the Dem leadership are also pretty modest

Most of them are going to try to take a path of least resistance on questions of foreign policy, like Iran.

The issue of war or peace isn't going to be decided by parliamentary means. There's a struggle behind the scenes, of which the prosecutions of Franklin and Libby are just part. See my discussion above.

[Jim__]

9. I hope you're wrong.

What gives me hope that you may be wrong is that we are tied down in Iraq. Tied down in a way this adminsitration could not foresee before the war. That fact has to give them pause before trying to attack an even larger and far more dangerous country. Even an air attack on Iran's nuclear facilities would bring Iran pouring over the borders into Iraq and lead to a military disaster for the US. They have to be able to see this.

But, if you are right, and this administration is determined to go to war with Iran; there is nothing anyone in this country can do, short of armed revolution, to stop it. This adminsitration pays no heed to the people of the US, nor to the other branches of government. Incredibly, a large portion of the people and the other brancehs of government seem to submit to this.

[Gregorian]

10. My grandmother came to America to escape genocide.

I had plans to live in relative peace, here.

Need I say more? I marched. I'll march again. What good will it do when the warmongers want war so badly they'll out a wmd's CIA agent? And the media is nothing more than lies and ommissions?

Bush has asked the world to stop us. And I'm scared they will, if we don't behave like human beings.

[bush_is_wacko]

11. I agree, we are on the brink of WWIII! When we bomb Iran the

rest of those "Muslim nations" are going to go ballistic! I wish the UN had more power to stop the process but we all know * doesn't listen to them and will just do whatever he wants anyway. As far as our Senators go... They just seem to keep bending over every time this country needs them. I get the feeling there is something being held over their heads. How can ANY of them believe ANYTHING the preznit puts forward as "evidence" at this point?

[tjwash]

15. It's not the moslems we need to worry about.

It's the Chinese and Russians

[bush_is_wacko]

28. I understand all about the China and Russia connections. China though

has us by our ECONOMIC balls already. Something tells me PNAC doesn't give a damn about WWIII. They know they will STILL come out smelling like roses. I just can't quite figure out how! As far as the rest of the Middle East, they are far more dangerous than anyone is giving them credit for. They weren't much of a threat before we started killing them all but now we are the target of their holy war. Human history is a pretty good indicator of human future. This is a disaster of biblical proportions and frankly, if anyone lives to tell the tale, I have no doubt a new "bible" will be written complete with the "lesson" of the victorious "religion." I guess it's just wait and see which "religion" wins at this point.

[mdmc]

52. it is the military / industrial complex that owns the dems+gop

but russia and china are forces, to be sure.:kick:

[Kierkegaard]

29. That is a question for which I've been awaiting an answer.

What the hell is going on in the house? Why are these people letting this gang of mobsters roll over them? I keep thinking that any time now, a line will be crossed that will get a rise out of our representatives but it never seems to happen. What's it going to take???

[meganmonkey]

32. I don't know, but the vote the other day was 404 to 4

4 people voted against. Where will that leave us when the actual War resolution comes up? Or will Bushco figure out some legal loophole and say they don't even NEED congress to approve it? :(

[Kierkegaard]

35. Why bother to get a vote when you don't have to?

All challenges to this cabal have been met with excuses, rationales and lies that allow them to go straight ahead an do whatever they please. There is no precedent that gives us any hope of stopping them at this point. Short of physically removing the offending parties from office, I don't see how they can 'lose.'

[FatDave]

74. "figure out some legal loophole"

I think you nailed it right there.

Thing is, they don't need to find and actual legal loophole. They just have to find something that looks enough like a legal loophole that Gonzalez can defend it. While he isn't under oath. And we'll be at war by that time anyway.

[tjwash]

12. This war will be fought here on American soil...

A little knowledge of the facts, and reality of the situation really does go a long way.

China and Iran may sign a pact as early as March to jointly develop the massive Yadavaran oil field in southern Iran.

The ties that bind China, Russia and Iran.

Chinese oil company Sinopec has been distributing Iranian oil since Nov. of 2004

China and Russia have multi-billion-dollar oil and natural gas projects hanging in the balance

Historical pipeline, and pipeline capacities from Iran, to Russia, China, and the Caspian sea




Because of the economic impact that Russia and China would feel because of the fact that China gets a large portion of their oil fro Iran, as does Russia, that an invasion of Iran by the U.S. will most likely kick start world war three. And this is not shaping up to be a war that will be fought "over there"

The unfortunate reality is, that this mushy, over-comfortable lifestyle we in America have come to regard as some kind of a birthright, has made John Q. Public forget what a fucking horror, war zones are. The truly sad thing, is that a hell of a lot of Americans have reached the point, to where it is going to take something like Russian and Chinese tanks rolling over Mr. Smiths new garage extension and the local walmart getting flattened to rubble before the brain dead American public starts to think twice before cheering these sociopathic bastards that are in power, into battle.

[meganmonkey]

23. Thanks for your links an input, tjwash

I am going to try to do more research and post new threads about this every few days. This is appalling, and either people have given up and are resigned to this fate, or they simply don't recognize the seriousness of it.

Peace!

[Pavulon]

24. Pretty

Sure russia and china's tanks will stay where they are. Suicide bombings would be very possible. A mechanized invasion by a foreign power is a long shot.

I agree with the idea of your post. People do not know the effect of war and have no will to learn.

[tjwash]

38. Unfortunately...

...I want so hard to agree with you, but can't. China's army size is close to a million troops, and that is after a RIF of 500000, they have a nuclear capability of around 400 warheads, over 10000 tanks, and add to the mix that Mexico could be economically pushed to be used as a staging area by the Chinese.

Add to the mix that they have us by the economic balls, and it makes three scenarios likely:

1)The US invades, China calls in the US debt, the US economically collapses and splinters into several independent countries like the old Soviet Union.

2)The US invades, China and Russia takes Iran's side, and starts by defending Iran, but finds itself deeper and deeper in the hole and is forced to take the war to American soil.

3)Nothing happens, and this is just all been saber rattling.

I'm praying it's number 3. But this is why we need to get the message out to people who don't know the extent to which an invasion of Iran could go.

[Pavulon]

70. The US

has the ability to kill everyone in China and Russia in 30 minutes with a massive nuclear strike, first or second strike. china has little second strike capability, russia does. Nuclear war is off the table for both nations. Neither has anything to gain in an open nuclear war. The resultant war would kill billions and no one would win.

The us will not invade Iran. The US may at some future point bomb Iran, but europe is aware of Iran's intention. The French have stated multiple times that Iran is seeking weapons. france has threatened the use of nuclear weapons. This is significant. Iran could respond and start an open war. If Iran is on the wrong side of the equation the NATO treaty can be invoked. Iran has no force capable of defending against an air campaign from europe or the us. Chin and russia have no interest in a war with NATO.

Egypt has no interest in a nuclear Iran and will at minimum remain neutral. There are no other powers in the region that present a credible threat.

China is thriving on the US economy. If they throw in a monkey wrench they loose. The US will not disintegrate, the great depression is an example of this. China has no reason to cut off its largest supplier of cash

Russia has zero interest in a war with the US. A continental assault by Russia would be obvious in build up and lead to war before it happened. Russia does not have the conventional force to fight western europe and the US. Nor does china.

A million man army does no good when you loose the ability to move it without being bombed continuously by jets your radar cant see (while you have radar) and then pounded by more jets when your radar capability is gone after 3 days.

For fifty years the US military has trained to fight a 2 front war.

I vote number 3. Strongly.

[mmonk]

120. The "threat" of Iran is exagerated

[Bucky]

109. Where your post gets silly

"...and add to the mix that Mexico could be economically pushed to be used as a staging area by the Chinese."

Now you're just being ridiculous. China has absolutely no need, no motive, and no reasonable hope for invading the US. The idea that they could use Mexico as a "staging area" is laughable, if not paranoid. Do you imagine we'd be sitting on our thumbs while a quarter million Chinese commandos and their supplies and equipment jet unobserved into the resort hotels in Acapulco? Do you think China really doesn't have a lot more to gain by keeping us as we are, fat consumers for their cheap labor goods? Honestly, your invasion fantasies sound more like parodies of the old John Birch anticommunist hysterics of the late 50s. Egads! There's a screaming Red Chinaman lurking under the serving carts at the local Casa Olé!

1 and 2)The US invades... blah blah blah

The US is not, repeat, not going to invade Iran. We simply lack the manpower. The threat is that we'll go with a mad bomber strategy, trying to surgically strike all of Iran's nuke facilities... which will fail miserably, of course. I can see a general conflict getting touched off, cf course. We'd be mad not to fear that. But the idea that China would throw in with Iran against us is just too naively contrary to China's interests to be taken seriously.

They need us and our venture capital far too much. And with all the US debt that's owed to Chinese banks, they would be the last ones to want to see us collapse or even suffer a major economic setback. They'd like to see us get economically burned in the Mideast no doubt. But they can accomplish that quite efficiently just by sitting back and watching Mr Bush sodomize the pooch. They won't risk a general conflict. They'll just watch us discredit ourselves and then go and pick up the drilling contracts for themselves.

[sarcasmo]

39. I also feel the next big war will be fought here on this soil.

If we bomb Iran look for total chaos to begin.

[Pavulon]

71. Please elaborate (nt)

[mmonk]

122. Any warfare against us will be assymytrical

No one can invade the US nor afford outright confrontation. If we are to be dislodged, it will be economically in very calculated steps so as not to destroy the world economic scene (a slow weakening of our power).

[sarcasmo]

130. Were we not invade by 21 hijackers, imagine 500 cells.

[Dunedain]

111. Nope

You need a navy to roll tanks down any of our main streets.
You need an air force to control the sky over that army, and navy.
Neither government you mentions has that capability.

Your post reads with contempt for people.

I'm just curious, at which point do you give up living like a king;
if somebody doesn't come and kick the stool out from underneath you?

[gordianot]

13. The Reagan administration studied the possibility of a limited nuclear war

Repub gorillas and criminals have longed for it ever since.

No one has ever accused me of being an optimist but I have strong doubts of an armageddon WWIII. That is not to say it will not be devastating and will result in a real New World order. It is not the America my Grandfather told me about.

[HeeBGBz]

67. Yeah, I think they are itching to use a nuke just to see what happens

Like the wasted, brain-fried drunks that they are.

[gordianot]

84. T.REX that's great.

I recorded some of my old records for my daughter.

[HeeBGBz]

91. They hold up well

The music more so than the band. RIP. They surely rocked the house.

[tatertop]

93. Yes, I think they have nukes on the brain

In a big big way

[Telly Savalas]

96. Armageddon is contrary to corporate interests.

[GOPS Worst Fear]

14. What are they going to fight with?

We already know our troops are stretched too thin now...

we also know that Bush has been banrupting our treasury with all the money spent in Iraq...How much money is left for a third front?

[meganmonkey]

30. Bombs, not troops, at least to start

that's the general consensus. As for funding...well...at the rate we are going into debt it seems clear that bushco doesn't care how many generations of Americans spend their lives repaying China or whoever owns our debt in the future.

Another thing to consider is that finally pulling out Iraq would leave our troops available for redeployment. And most plans so far for troop withdrawal do just that - keep troops 'in the region', just not righti n Iraq.

[file83]

108. It's chilly in here, I think I feel a DRAFT...

Believe it. Once our troops start getting descimated in Iran (Iran is a LOT more equipped than most Americans realize) the Pentagon's war propaganda machine will go into overtime to get the support for a draft. Even if that doesn't work, they'll reinstate the draft anyway.

Just par for the shoot-first-keep-shooting course of the GWBWH (George W Bush White House).

[confludemocrat]

16. ...in which we will be defeated

completing the destruction of America in every essential dimension of its claim to greatness.

[Virginia Dare]

19. It is inevitable..

"they" have been working on the war plan for Iran for quite some time, according to people that I have spoken with "who know".

[Avalux]

21. Please tell about these people "who know"

How are you privy to inside information?

[mopinko]

20. world war III

counting the non-vilolent takeover of the us, this will be world war III. seriously. only this time, we are germany.

[DemInDistress]

26. didn't that scumbag in our Whitehouse say few yrs.ago

"YOUR EITHER WITH US OR YOUR AGAINST US"? well I am against him !! OUR CHICKEN HAWK CHEIF IS AN..

[Wordie]

31. K&R! Sign the petition to stop this madness, in ActivistHQ, here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=106x26976

And please recommend the ActivistHQ petition, too, so more DUers will see it, by getting it on the Greatest page!

[liberal N proud]

33. It has already been decided - Yes we are going to attack Iran

it was decided when bu$h took control of the White House.
They just have to build the rhetoric before it is started and we have been witnessing that since the start of the year.
It will happen and there is nothing we can do to stop it at this point.

[Karenina]

62. And I seriously doubt that "nuclear installations"

are the target. Anyplace known to host a server supporting the Iranian Bourse will be a PRIORITY TARGET. Too bad they're not intelligent enough to simply drop huge magnets... :silly:

[leftchick]

34. Did you see this Megan?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x472556

:scared: :cry:

[meganmonkey]

36. Oh, man

I really keep hoping we are simply delusional and paranoid, but all signs point to the fact we have a very good reason to be paranoid :(

[leftchick]

40. I just can not believe that after the Iraq debacle

that our so called representatives are ready for a worse debacle in Iran. Have they all lost their fucking marbles? :argh:

[tatertop]

43. That's the part I don't get

The Democrats in Congress know this invasion is based on lies,
they know we have no reason to invade Iran,
they know what the likely outcome will be,
and still they are generating almost no opposition.
What the hell is going on here?

[BelgianMadCow]

68. "they know this invasion is based on lies"

I remember the plea on DU that Iran is NOT an imminent threat, and is far away from a nuclear device.

But I can't go looking and I really think this thread could use a link to it.

Anyone? Should be added to tjwash's post upthread imho.

[Pharaoh]

48. Yes::: Fucking marbles have been lost or misplaced

[Dangerman]

41. Remember kids...

Iran, like Iraq is a member of the "Axis of Evil".

I would have been suprised if we do invade Iran.

The situation in Iraq, combined with an invasion and attack on Iran, will make Osama's 9/11 attack more justified.

I hate to say this, but there's no way to stop this now.

[EFerrari]

42. Megan, you know my focus is Diebold certification right now

but if you post an action thread, PM me. I'm in.

And, we ALL need to find ways to resist this latest insanity. :nuke:

:hug:

[meganmonkey]

47. Honey, the only action I think would work

would be a full-on national strike - every city, every town, everyone in the streets, refusing to work, refusing to fight, refusing to pay taxes, refusing refusing refusing. And when the day comes for that, we will all know. If I post it on DU there won't be anyone to read it because they will be in the streets demanding a real democracy.

But hanging out here I fear it will never happen. Everyone wants "leadership", or direction instead of taking a risk and being that leader, doing that action, breaking the rules and smashing the barriers down. That's why I havent' been around much lately. Discouraging.

I know you folks in CA are dealing with the Diebold mess - thanks for all you do, because the rest of the nation eventually follows CA, so we need you guys to get us on the right track, and you are essentially fighting a demon. And it is ultimately the same fight, just on a different front. We will find our new way someday.

Peace! :hug:

[EFerrari]

54. Well, I'm still here and still willing.

Thank YOU for being here.

:hug:

:grouphug:

[wake.up.america]

44. Just imagine. You live in America, can't stand Bush, you join the...

Army because there is no work, you're sent to Iran to kill Iranians, who had no jobs, can't stand the goverment, who joined the military in order to eat and have a roof over their heads.

Bush gets his oil and the rulers in Iran make a ton of money after being payed under the table.

That is what it boils down to.

[brainshrub]

45. We are not going to war with Iran.

Sorry to disappoint, but it's not going to happen:

Two reasons why it will never happen:

1) China.
2) Geography.

Read this: www.brainshrub.com/us-war-iran

[meganmonkey]

46. You can post that a hundred times

and I will continue to hope you are right.

But meanwhile, as the evidence piles up, I am going to keep working my ass off to stop this from happening rather than acting surprised when it does.

Peace.

[brainshrub]

49. Anything is possible.

But the bottom line is that Iran has the US by the balls, and there is no way in hell that an attack is possible without crippling the United States permanently.

[Swamp Rat]

50. Especially with Bushler in charge

[berni_mccoy]

51. I don't think you are correct on this brainshrub

The two reasons you cited, China and Geography, are EXACTLY WHY BushCo wants to go to war with Iran. And it's not for what most people think. BushCo could care less about invasion for the purpose of controlling Iran's oil. They aren't a U.S. supplier anyway.

This war is more about damaging China than it is Iran's nuclear capabilities. BushCo wants is to create a major problem for China in the form of it's oil supplies. And they don't have to invade Iran to do it.

The U.S. will BOMB Iran, destroying their power systems and interrupting their production of oil. This will cause the global price of oil to sky-rocket. And while it won't affect U.S. suppliers, IT WILL affect prices to consumers in the U.S. Yes, the U.S. population will be extremely pissed off at $5+/gallon for gas, but when has a pissed-off population stopped BushCo?

Oil Companies Win
Defense Contractors Win
BushCo Wins
Republicans Win

The losers would be China and the American poor-through-middle class.

I agree with you that I don't think China will take this sitting down, and I think that's about as big a miscalculation on this Administration's part as was "the Iraqi people will greet us as liberators".

[brainshrub]

55. The system is based on the Petrodollar, and the US is checkmated.

I don't see a way out for the US, but an invasion or bombing would exacerbate the situation to the point of a global revolution.

A bombing or war would force China, and every Pacific rim country, to dump their dollars on the open market.

The result would be catastrophic for the US empire.

[berni_mccoy]

61. I agree... but BushCo doesn't care about the U.S. Economy

This would be a way to push our Democracy into a military-run dictatorship run by Bush and the military-industrial complex. I would expect the big oil companies and defense contractors to move their assets into Euros or some other currency prior to a U.S. led attack on Iran. This would be a response to Iran's indications of moving to the Euro. If China and every Pacific rim country does as you say, they will move to some currency, most likely the Euro.

Iran's move to the Euro is it's way of determining what the U.S. intentions really are (see http://republic-news.org/archive/120-repub/120_crawford.htm ). I believe it is also a premonition of what is to come if we do attack (every country moving away from dollar to euro). BushCo knows that will happen, and when you know something will happen in the market, you take advantage of it. Greed is the complete and sole motivator for everything this administration has done.

[meganmonkey]

65. This goes waaaay beyond concern for the US economy

the people behind this are not all Americans, they are the people the Bush family, Cheney, and the major PNAC players have been working with for a long time. So the US economy crashes, and our people buy a lot less oil? Big deal, because the markets in other countries are growing exponentially.

We're just going to be collateral damage.

[papau]

60. China will kill any UN response - and is already getting Iranian oil gifts

for that future act(s)

At the cliff moment, China may use its influence to stop Iran - and make us pay for that gift latter.

Indeed China is in a win-win situation. All choices lead to China watching us lose a large large chunk of whatever goodwill or influence we have over in that part of the world, as China takes tighter control of that sphere of influence.

During the Revolutionary war the Northeast thought that pure ideals would motivate our troops - and George Washington's gift to the nation was his realizing that "what is in it for me" was needed - and his getting the Continental Congress to approve the patriot bribe of half pay for life for those that stayed under his command.

Bush and company could not do a legitimate business deal if their life depended on it - they never leave enough on the table for the other parties - and are always forced to steal taxpayer money to give to the other players so as to get the deal done, albeit even then the deal is done poorly.

[upi402]

59. China would be the winner

we are amatures playing against pros

China is in position FOR a US bombing action

[beachmom]

133. Great post, brainshrub

What about reason #3 that we're not going to invade Iran:

We are unofficial "allies" in Iraq, propping up the majority Shiite government against the Sunni insurgency. The Iraqi government has also said that if we invade Iran, they will side with Iran. Bush is so bogged down with Iraq, I just don't think he wants to go to war with Iran. That's probably why he "flip flopped" on the Russian option. Back in 2004, Kerry said that we should accept the Russian deal with Iran (having them process the used uranium), which the Right immediately labelled "dangerous". Now Bush endorses that idea.

Also, where is the P.R. rollout for this impending war? It ain't there, guys. Bush ALWAYS does a P.R. blitz when he wants to do something. The American public would be against such a war at this time (60% were for the war in Iraq when it happened).

Let's stick to what IS happening - the '06 elections - and not waste any more time on such silliness (and if you're right, well then I'll eat my shirt!).

[upi402]

57. DRAFT...

...would be necessary

should be interesting to see if chickenhawk middle class righties are for a draft when they have skin in the game.

detention camps anyone?

[Skidmore]

58. Ask the politicians and the people, WITH WHICH MILIATARY

are we going to fight this war? Put it out there. Call the pols on it and educate the people that the miliatary is stretched to its limits.

[Avalux]

69. You're thinking ground troops.

We have plenty of jets and bombs. If we do go to war, it'll be a bombing campaign.

[Pavulon]

72. Correct

5 carrier fleets and the majority of the us air force are basically idle.

[Mich Otter]

63. I was told...

During the 2004 campaigns, at a Kerry rally in Michigan, I was told, (by a lady who works at a local military procurement facility), the plans to invade Iran were already set.
I absolutely believe what she was telling is the truth. It has been surprising to me that the invasion of Iran has not yet happened.

[meganmonkey]

66. Seymour Hersh has been saying it for over a year

that Iran was next. Now that their Oil Bourse is planned for March 20, things are heating up quickly.

Peace (I hope!)!!

:patriot:

[EFerrari]

76. Yes, he has. The New Yorker is one of our last bastioins

of in depth journalism.

Thanks for pointing that out.

:kick:

[Javaman]

73. none of this was ever about nukes. it's about oil. period.

The U.S. Military is the biggest user of fossil fuels. If the military suddenly stopped using oil tomorrow, our daily need oil requirement would plummet.

These wars of opportunity that moron* wishes to have are about keeping the military running, nothing more, nothing less. Once you understand that, all is clear.

bombs will fall on Iran one way or another, but frankly, I don't think it will be us pulling the trigger, it will be Israel.

Mark my words.

[threadkillaz]

78. Here's more fuel for the fire.

China, Iran on the brink of huge oil deal
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1419574.cms

"SHANGHAI :China and Iran are close to setting up plans to develop Iran’s Yadavaran oil field, according to published reports, in a multi-billion dollar deal that comes as Tehran faces the prospect of sanctions over its nuclear program. The deal is said to be worth about $100bn.

According to Caijing, a respected financial magazine, a Chinese government delegation is due to visit Iran as early as March ’06 to formally sign an agreement allowing China Petrochemical (Sinopec), to develop Yadavaran."



Great, now China has an even larger interest in seeing no war in Iran.

[mom cat]

79. The africaasia.com story has "expired"

"Sorry, the requested article has expired"
Do you have another source?

[meganmonkey]

81. Yes, and almost none from US sources

In fact most of the links I found are to sites that get deleted here, but I found a couple which aren't (I hope!). Funny that no major papers seem to notice...thank goodness for C-Span, right?

Gee, the Tehran Times is carrying it:
http://www.tehrantimes.com/Description.asp?Da=2/18/2006&Cat=4&Num=002

I also saw it on bellaciao but I don't know if that is an acceptable source...

[mom cat]

82. My Rep, Capuano, was one of four who voted "present" instead of

Yes. I wish that he had voted against it, but he was more courageous than most of thecongress critters. I sent him a thanks and encouraged him to stand firm in his non support of this impending disaster.

[Terran1212]

80. Just make Americans fearful and bombs will drop

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

85. Nope, there will be no war.

Just another illegal invasion by the *bush cabal.

[Jamnt]

87. Your last sentence says it all.

This is not my America either.

[ramblin_dave]

88. Is there no state that would contemplate secession

if we start to mobilize for war against Iran? Drastic measures are needed to wake people up.

[Pavulon]

90. been there

done that..

[ramblin_dave]

97. What a silly reply

The Civil War was a costly one for both sides. If several states threatened secession to stop Bush's madness it would create a political shockwave since no one would want another civil war.

[Harald Ragnarsson]

112. We need something like this to happen to have a chance

If we are depending on writing our congresspeople and it will make them do the right thing, we might as well be pissing in the ocean.

After Iraq, 911, Commission, Downing Street MemoS, bankruptcy, Roberts, Alito, and on and on and on and on for 5 years now, I don't see how anyone can have any idea that they are going to listen to us about Iran.

The only thing they want is our tax money. Other than that we can shut the f**k up.

[gozer13]

89. Huh?

So what’s is the lie? Or what’s your solution? If we let Iran enrich uranium, then they will have weapons grade plutonium. If we let them purchase enriched uranium from Russia with all their oil and natural gas reserves (which they could use instead of splitting atoms for energy) then Russia has the obligation of containing, storing, and protecting it for the next 2500 years wile it turns to lead. Which would completely defeat the entire cold war…. Don’t forget that Russia did things like lose the M.A.D. box after the cold war cope, and branch states sold off warheads, and delivery systems to try and boost their emerging governments economy. Do you really trust ex-KGB to keep their hands off this crud? Come on man.

[mmonk]

124. The worst thing concerning "nuclear"

is that one day maybe ten years from now they have a bomb like Pakistan does. This isn't about any military threat. This is about petro dollars and the American empire.

[Harald Ragnarsson]

94. Don't even bother writing Congress

Before Iraq, they received phone calls, emails and faxs, 1000 to 1 AGAINST going to war in Iraq.

I wouldn't even waste my time on them. THEY DON'T CARE WHAT WE WANT OR THINK.

[Douglas Carpenter]

98. FOR GOD SAKES: DO BOTHER WRITING CONGRESS !!

and anyone and everyone else.. this would be absolute insanity.

But I agree it is VERY, VERY likely

[Media_Lies_Daily]

100. OPEC has 11 member-nations...NeoCons want to control them all....

OPEC MEMBERS = 11 COUNTRIES:
============================

U. S. OCCUPIES/CONTROLS/ALLIED WITH 7 COUNTRIES:
-----------------------------------
Algeria = U. S. has intimidated
Libya = U. S. has intimidated
Iraq = U. S. occupies
Kuwait = U. S. controls
Qatar = U. S. controls
Saudi Arabia = allied with the U. S.
United Arab Emirates = allied with the U. S.
-----------------------------------

REMAINING 4 NATIONS:
---------------------
Venezuela = U. S. trying to overthrow Chavez - U. S. involved
Iran = the next target of the NeoCons
Nigeria = major unrest in this country - U. S. involved?
Indonesia = OPEC membership under review

[dchill]

102. All this talk about nukular weapons...

and it's still all about oil. This is not your America? No, it's not. It's the Confederate States of Amurika. They finally won the Civil War. Now for another 150 years of the War on Terra.

[nolabels]

105. Yea Georgie boy, you one big hero, you flight suit man

Bring em on Georgie, we shoot em in face, we tough guys :rofl:


http://www.oprofeta.blogger.com.br/2002_09_01_archive.html

[Stand and Fight]

103. Kicked and recommended. Proud to be #29. n/t

[LynneSin]

104. Megan - you coming in for the April protest in NYC

it'll be a good one and this time United for Peace & Justice has found other groups to organize the protest with including NOW

[meganmonkey]

117. Hey Lynne

I don't know if I am going to make it to the big one. I will likely attend some local events at the end of March, and I am hoping to go to the Midwest Peace Summit in Indianapolis in early April.

But if I can manage to get to NYC I would love to go, I've never been there for a protest. In fact, I've never been there for anything but a Phish show :P

[file83]

107. If we do go to war with Iran, then it's the beginning of the END.

The end of America.

[shanti]

110. i read on DU a couple of weeks ago

that the end of march was the target date. they have an agenda and they are NOT backing down now. plenty of PNAC left to finish! :(

[Telly Savalas]

138. A year ago the target date was June 2005.

The goalposts on this keep moving.

The sabre-rattling from the White House is a lot more subdued than it was in the months before the Iraqi invasion. If they're trying to sell a war, they're not doing so very aggressively.

Iran is just being used as a device to distract attention away from Bush's failures. Bush Administration officials get to talk tough and pretend to be badasses, and subsequently feed off the irrational paranoia in the public. Meanwhile, as everybody is focused on Bush's SuperDuper Epic Global Crusade Against Evildoers (or whatever they're calling it these days), the GOP sneaks some nasty domestic policy in, like those cuts to social programs a few weeks ago.

It's a bluff.

[Nothing Without Hope]

113. Not only do the Bushies want war with Iran, they have been working

to establish that, like the NSA spying, the torture, everything else, that John Yoo's memo is right and Bush can begin that war with no approval from Congress.

I have dozens of bookmarks for this, but you've seen them before.

[KnaveRupe]

115. Grats, MM!

This generated a little better response than "4 replies, two of which were your own..." ;)

I'm still worried that Iran might be an enormous "head-fake" - that they are going to get their idiot base all worked up over Iran and then invade Syria. Dunno why - I've just thought Syria was the real target here for a while.

Not that it matters too much... either way it's going to be very, very bad. And who would have ever suspected such warmongering from our crack State Dept. and our fine, upstanding Nobel-Peace-Prize-nominated UN ambassador?



Sheesh.

[Vinca]

121. We have no troops to go to war with Iran, but I'm convinced

King George wants to drop a nuke on them. How many times have we heard about their nuclear programs being buried below ground, so deep a conventional weapon won't touch them? Before Bush was crowned president, he was planning a war with Iraq so he could be a "war" president. "War" presidents always win a second term. An additional benefit was sticking it to Poppy who - in Shrub's mind - didn't have the balls to finish the job. 9/11 wasn't the reason for the war, it was the excuse. Now, since that little escapade has gone to hell, he's got to find another way to pony up a legacy that will overshadow Katrina. Iran is his answer.

[ninjaterrorist]

123. nuking iran is the worst possible option ever

but never mind, since your country of automatons is run by the religious financial and fear agendas of the right, no good will ever come of the handling of this crisis.
don't forget why the US is making such a big issue out of this urnanium enrichtment: the iranians want to convert the oiltrade from dollars to euros, subsequently bankrupting the US.
so the neocons just need an excuse to attack the iranians to secure the most single important resource to the US: oil.

[meganmonkey]

125. Welcome to DU, ninjaterrorist!

:toast:

I hope someday Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld and all the other war criminals make a visit to your lovely town, if ya know what I mean :)

Peace!

[Patiod]

126. I wondered why Faux News has been hyping Iran lately..

I don't even have cable, much less monitor Faux News, but it's on at the gym , and sometimes it's either that or NASCAR. I wondered if what was being signaled by the fact that every other story is "The Threat From Iran" or "Iranian Terrorists Taking College Classes in Blowing up Stuff in the West", practically eclipsing the Missing White Girls and Michael Chertoff, Poor Misunderstood Guy stories.

[Snivi Yllom]

128. the medias whores were to busy covering Cheney

when this is the 1000lb Gorilla in the room.

[No Exit]

131. Megan, some--maybe most--of us are listening, but some (such as

myself) feel helpless to do anything about it, other than calling representatives, say, or taking the very first opportunity to vote AGAINST ALL REPUBLICANS, IN EVERY SINGLE ELECTION. (The election will probably come too late!)

I was aware of Russia's offer to Iran, and about last week I heard that Iran withdrew any possibility of entering that deal, saying that if it was going to be referred to the security council, it would no longer consider the Russian deal. Then came some stories that Russia has been bought off (has been "persuaded" to join with others in turning against Iran) by promise of various pipeline deals within Iraq.

When the Iraq war was about to start, millions upon millions of Americans DID go into the streets to protest. I am still sickened when I think of how effective the repuke propaganda machine was in keeping those protests from being covered as they should have been.

Yes, the American people can be fooled or bullied again and again, and as your post says, THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE TO CHANGE THE SCRIPT.

I don't know what to do... maybe if EVERYONE, or 90% of us, refused to work or buy at all for a day or a few days... maybe the resulting dip in their precious tax revenues and "productivity" might, might get to our oppressors??