People who live in condo committees are PRIMED for fascism

[Patiod]

My parents are friends with a couple where the wife's "job" is to be sure that the trashcans in her condo are the correct size, shape and color -- the wrong shade of tan is a write-up offense. I was visiting my friend's gated community (not a condo) and I got a WARNING TICKET for parking in the street for ONE NIGHT, which is against community standards (I got in late, and didn't want to park in their driveway and trap one of them in their garage the next morning). I've seen where in the newspaper where people have been fined for flying American or other flags.

I've read interviews with people from places like Russia, and they're stunned at how submissive Americans are to intrusiveness of Condo Committees - how many freedoms Americans will give up in pursuit of "maintaining property values".Whether it's your own choice to submit to this or not, I just think this whole mindset of total absolute obedience is priming people to accept things like the Patriot Act or the government listening in on their phone calls.

[MadMaddie]

1. That' why I will never live in one...

Why move into a condo and have the same conditions as an apartment complex.

[JuniperLea]

7. Tax deductions on the mortgage interest

that is the only way some people have of getting into the real estate market... gotta start somewhere... where I live, no interest loans are just fine for condo purchases because the equity rises so much faster than the principle balance decreases.

No bursting bubble around here... I bought my townhouse for $300k under two years ago and two in my complex have sold for $400k and more in the past six months.

If you have to live in an apartment with the same stupid rules, you may as well invest in a condo/townhouse.

[MadMaddie]

21. Touche.....

:hi:

[SharonAnn]

40. If they sign the "CCR's" (Codes, Covenants and Restrictions) then

they are expected to abide by them. Some like living that way, some don't. If you don't, then don't move into a community where you're expected to follow the rules that you signed up for.

[DrDan]

77. You are absolutely right!!!!!

These rules are not secret. Before buying, you must be provided a copy of the "rules" and you are expected to follow them.

These covenants also state exactly how the rules can be changed.

If you live with them, then don't buy there.

[Coexist]

2. Ha! that is nothing, a neighbor of mine was cited for:

1. Not removing the mildew on her mailbox in a timely manner.

2. Having her garage door up with no obvious ingress/egress (or some such verbage)

I live in a gated community - these people are freaky.

[liberal N proud]

3. Condos are not the only place like that - the suburban Mc Mansion villes

all have restrictions.
Can't have a garden or garden shed.
Decks must be approved by all members of the community
Lawns mowed on certain days of the week only
Mail box will be of certain size color...
Much, much more

And the best part, these people pay association fees to be told they have to live like this.

[Patiod]

4. I was stunned that this happens in McMansion communities

The "ticket" I got was in a fancy gated community. Yikes! Home is a castle indeed - one where your neighbors can tell you whether you can hang a flag!

[Coexist]

6. Oh - you can hang a flag - but only on National Holidays

and your Christmas lights must be down by January 9th.

My husband likes these communities because he says the property values don't go down.

Sigh - I like them because I feel like I can be an ambassador to let them see that liberals don't have cloven hooves.

[liberal N proud]

18. Live just outside of one of those communities

I get the benefit of property values without paying the homeowners association fees and without the restrictions.

[Dr.Phool]

5. One guy had a motorcycle and didn't know they were forbidden

To ride inside the community. He had to push it from his house to the gate, and when he came back, he had to shut it down at the gate and push it home.

[JuniperLea]

10. He should have read the regulations...

They have to be provided to all who buy before they sign on the dotted line.

[Occulus]

56. Such regulations should be illegal. n/t

[trixie]

37. This should have been disclosed to him prior to buying

he can successfully get out of his purchase for this (in a timely manner). My condos are animal free. I was told at the open house and it was printed on everything pertaining to the sale. My neighbors bought from an owner and were not told until they moved in with their 2 dogs. They successfully pulled out of the sale (after closing) and got restitution on moving costs etc.

[unblock]

8. the problem is usually the type of person the winds up on those boards

most often they're the ones who think up these rules, rather than the ones who think about promoting individuality and freedom and character and diversity.

i live in a cen-tex development, there are several different models. all houses were built around the same time, but there's a certain degree of diversity in the architecture and styles, and people further differentiate via landscaping and so on. it's turning into a nice neighborhood.

no condo association or other neighborhood control.

[Midlodemocrat]

9. I live in a community that has an association

We have covenants to prevent blight, etc., I lost $75,000 on my previous home in CT because of the lack of an association, so I am thrilled to have one. It keeps people from parking buses on the street, and putting fridges on their porches and eliminates the chance that my neighbor's home and yard condition will impact my ability to sell my home for the price it is worth.

I wouldn't live anywhere else, after what we went through in CT.

[Coexist]

12. but in gated communities, the streets are private - we have to pay

the streetlight bills, and the kids in the WAAAAAY back have to haul their butts almost 2 miles to catch the bus every morning. County won't go down private roads with their busses.

Then they didn't want to install bike racks for these kids to keep their bikes safe - there was quite an uproar over that. We have bike racks now. Ahhh, the things that rile the masses, eh!

[Midlodemocrat]

13. My community isn't gated.

We have an association, but no gates. At times I wish we did, because the through traffic is awful.

As far as riling the masses, no kidding! The things that get people's knickers in a twist.

[Sequoia]

20. Don't know where to insert this but this thread reminds me of this:

Mulder and Scully pose as a married couple to investigate a series of bizarre happenings in an exclusive, gated community.



http://www.redwolf.com.au/xfiles/season06/6abx13.html

[MountainLaurel]

54. I remember that episode!

Nice mental association there.

:hi:

[LostinVA]

36. We have gates, have private roads, but the buses go all over

The gates so keep through traffic down. Do you know how nice it is to be able to walk, jog, ride a bike without having to worry about getting hit? 25 mph, and speeders do get stopped and do get a ticket -- by real cops. It's great.

[CottonBear]

53. Condominiums are not all gated. Mine isn't.

Single family developments can be gated as can single-family attavhed, townhomes or flats.

ACondominium is simply a form of ownnership. It is not a form or specific type of house or dwelling.

[unblock]

14. uh, did you really lose $75k BECAUSE of lack of an association?

property values go up and down, neighborhood come and go.

the only way you likely can say that an association would might have helped is if you lost property value SPECIFICALLY because a neighbor was doing something that destroyed the neighborhood property values and was also something an association would have prevented, above and beyond whatever limited protections a neighbor might have absent an association.

it's pretty hard to imagine $75k worth of damage from the sort of things that associations try to address. not impossible, but not likely either.

[Midlodemocrat]

19. Essentially, yes. This is why

It was a condo association and what happened to the property values in 1 1/2 years, mind you, is that the association simply stopped enforcing the rules. People were renting out their 1 bedroom places to 10 people, buildings weren't being painted, it was a mess.

In condo associations like that, when people are trying to move, the first thing they stop paying are their condo fees, and there goes the neighborhood.

And, by lose, I mean this. I purchased the condo for $175,000 in 1988 and sold it for what I owed the bank, $101,00 two years later.

And, my particular unit was extremely well kept.

[unblock]

24. what i'm saying is that there are usually other factors

i don't know your specific situation and of course associations can preserve values, to some extent.

but often what happens is that the condo deal was a bad deal to begin with (not enough apartment dwellers converting to condo) or a major employer pulled out of the area, whatever external factors led to a decline in the area.

associations are usually the window dressing (ha!) on the real estate prices. i could see them accounting for $10-25k on a $175k condo, but $75k on a $175k condo, there's something far bigger than community standards and rules going on.

if this were not the case, there are real estate investor who seek out such opportunities, buy out a few units (yours maybe) at depressed prices, then finally buy out the worst offenders and fix up the few bad units. people like that tend to prevent the prices from dipping all that egregiously.

[Midlodemocrat]

26. Well, interestingly, what started the landslide to my loss is

that one of the original investors in the community went bankrupt, taking 10 units with him.

People then stopped paying the assoc. dues, and voila. We tried to list ours for $150,000, but we couldn't get a realtor to take the listing.

Frankly, I am grateful that we got out for what we owed the bank...others weren't so lucky...they just put the keys on the counter and walked away.

[unblock]

28. there ya go.

very sorry for the bad luck in that. condo deals are often a crap shoot, and surprisingly risky considering the prices involved (a standalone $350,000 house is probably a more stable investment than a $175,000 condo). but then again, you could have made as much money in the same amount of time. easy go, easy come.

anyway, my point was that the condo association wasn't really to blame for this one, certainly not the lion's share. a bankrupt original investor and 10 units on the block is going to seriously depress prices regardless of community standards.


a key lesson here is that community boards, as you point out, can't be counted on in a dire situation. if values decline quite a bit, you are correct in stating that people will stop paying dues and then the association can't enforce its rules anyway.

associations can help prop up prices by a bit, but they can't overrule the laws of supply and demand.

[LostinVA]

34. Word -- that's why I'm in one, too

And, mine isn't McMansions. It's lower end to higher end houses. It's not as restrictive as some of the things you all mentioned, but it has rules -- mainly good ones. My fav? Not being allowed to just chop down trees. LOVE it.

I do not want to live next to the trash from hell. I grew up with neighbors like that.

[sui generis]

11. well that's why you have your lawyer look it over and strike language

if it's unreasonable or objectionable and they want you they'll agree to it. If they don't want you to begin with, they'll just drain you dry and then chase you out.

Read the fine print. Change it if necessary. Add your provision for fining the condo association.

[Shakespeare]

66. You can't just have CC&R language that you don't like stricken.

Those documents are officially recorded with their relevant municipal authorities; you either abide by them, or you don't. Once in, you can lobby the board of directors to make changes, but those rarely happen.

edited to add: I helped draft many, many CC&Rs over the last few years in my line of work, and I'm aware of the unbelievable (and often idiotic) fine print in most of them. It was a very educational experience, and I learned enough to know that I will never, EVER, buy a home of any kind that is bound by CC&Rs.

[sui generis]

72. They aren't of record until your signature is on it too

Worst case scenario, if they want me as a homeowner and I want the house, they're going to have to deal with an addendum, if necessary. Beyond responsible expectations and reasonable appearance guidelines of home ownership in that community I do not want to be told that I can only have beige non-hinged plantation shutters on my back yard windows, or that I have a two hour window to roll weekly garbage out to the curb, etc., by some stay-at-home busybody. And arbitrary "fines" make me apeshit. If I park in the street occasionally it shouldn't matter either, as long as it's not a daily occurrence, certainly not worthy of "enforcement" on the first infraction.

You sound like a legal dude: you know you have to look at any contract you sign in exchange for a significant chunk of money as negotiable, or you're bound to get screwed sooner or later. Americans are rote trained not to do that. Push back and see if they move and how much.

If they're asking for something unreasonable and they don't budge on the petty stuff you probably don't want to be there anyway.

[Shakespeare]

73. No, they're of record as soon as the subdivision or multiple housing plan

...is on record with the city or county. CC&Rs are generally filed concurrent with the subdivision map and plan. I've never seen anybody successfully get an addendum as a condition for buying into a subdivision or condo community (but then again, most people don't look as closely as they should at these things, and ultimately don't try).

Where I am in Sonoma County, you've got a lot of subdivisions springing up with "ranchette" multiple-acre lot sizes, which one would think--especially in this very agrarian county--would give you some leeway on gardening and minor livestock (a backyard hen or two). One would be wrong. Typically, most of the CC&Rs are as strict as ones I've seen governing condos. Just unbelievable. We're looking to buy property and build in the next year or two, and we've pretty much avoided even looking at anything that already has CC&Rs in place. The growing trend seems to be small-time (even amateur) developers who buy a chunk of land, subdivide down to 10-12 lots, and then write up unbelievably restrictive CC&Rs. I don't agree with the OP that it's fascism, but the dictatorial attitude of some of these newer developers is somewhat reminiscent of the current administration.

[DURHAM D]

15. I manage shared-interest communities. Been doing this work

for over 20 years. Generally speaking, the people who want to uber-enforce the rules are retirees with nothing better to do. On the other hand, people know (or should know) what they are buying into. It was the original Developer who created these restrictions - not the subsequent owners or Boards.

I always make certain that the Board of Directors "needs" to enforce a rule before they start down that road. On the other hand, if it is a rule / regulation or part of the governing documents - the Board can be held liable for "not" enforcing the rules.

It is my experience that a vast majority of owners in a shared-interest community want the rules strictly enforced - just a handful don't respond well to this repressive living.

[CottonBear]

55. Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! You are spot on.

The only person I've had trouble with is the bitter and lonely old woman who lives alone. She spends her days peering out of her front and back windows or even peeking into neighbor's fenced gardens (I saw her evil eye peering at me through a knot hole in my fence once) looking for any excuse to whine, complain, bitch, moan or report her bogus complaints to the board. The board basically ignores her and they advise anyone who has had a run in with her to blow her off as well. I no longer speak to her or even wave to her. Problem solved.

[Inland]

67. As a member of a condo board, I agree with all.

One has to watch out for the overly officious. But then again, as one who has the luck to live with a common wall and common patch of grass with the worst neighbor in the 208 unit development, I'd don't know what I would do without strict enforcment of rules on a) noise b) dog shit c) keeping trash cans and cooking equipment on the driveways. Right this second, the asshole has two huge garbage cans, one grill, one smoker (always a treat when that gets fired up) and an older pile of shit in clear view.

[Sequoia]

16. I know a person who lives in a condo and she told me

how she hated that the people stood out on their (own) balconies and looked at the people coming in and parking. I asked her what was the matter with that, maybe they want to be outside. She said they could hang out on their back balconies. I said she was being strange. Then she tells me how she hates people smoking, but her neighbor next door smokes on the balcony and she can't say anything to her about it because that condo belongs to that woman and she can do what she wants. Why do people even bother to live in a condo when most of them are converted apartments anyway. If your neighbor's place catches fire you're in for it. Some people who live in condos actually think they're a bit above apartment dwellers. Ha, go figure.

[trixie]

38. true but then false

True - some a lot of people that live in condos have no life and are busy bodies with their neighbors. Much like the lawn police on a neighborhood street.

False - your statement that condo OWNERS are not above renters. Financially they are. They at least own their apartments and have moved into the middle class.

[mongo]

41. Ah they monied gentry

You are soooo much better than the rest of us.

[trixie]

44. No, again you have it wrong

enabling all families to own their own homes should be our goal. Having people be beholding to slumlords is against my principles.

[CottonBear]

58. Condos are not apartments. Condominium is a form of legal ownership

not a form of housing. I live in a condominium town home. Not all town homes are condos. Some are not part of a condominium. (Ex: John Kerry owns a town home in Boston.) Some town homes are built as rental units and are all owned by one person but are still organized legally as condominiums rather than apartments. Apartments cannot be individually bought and sold.

SOme town homes are part of a condominium community like mine. No renters are allowed in my neighborhood. You must be a homeowner to live here. If you move, you have to sell because you can't rent your home. Now if a child or family member is on the deed, then they can live there without you. In my very famous Southern college town this is what has saved us from rowdy students. We do have some students, mostly grad and professional types, who've bought in the neighborhood. We actually have a super diverse group of people living here.

[CottonBear]

57. That's not a nice comment. I own a condo. I'm a homeowner.

I am not a renter. I really hate it when someone says I live in an apartment. I don't. I live in my house which is my home.

Condominimum is a form of ownnership NOT a form of housing. A condo can be a detached home, an attached home, a duplex, a flat, or a townhome.

Again, I own a condominium townhome. John Kerry lives in a (very expensive) townhome. Some people rent townhomes. Some people own townhomes. Not all town homes are condos.

No one in my neighborhood can rent a home here. One must own the home. If you move you must sell the home. You can't rent it out. (You can have a blood relative on the deed and let them live there.)

[HereSince1628]

17. It's not just in Condos. In Wauwatosa, we actually do have block captain

who went around and reminded everyone to report any suspicious behaviors after 911.

In 'tosa suspicious behavior could be but isn't necessarily limited to

Being well endowed with melanin.
Having a name with greater than 3 syllables.
Being home on Sunday morning.
NOT driving a van.
Putting up exterior St. Patrick's Day decorations.
Being a Bears fan.
Planting more than one tree in your front yard.

BTW Overnight parking here is by permit only, and only at the invitation of a RESIDENT.

[Warpy]

22. thanks for reminding me why I choose to live in bad 'hoods

even when I could have chosen to live in nicer areas with clean streets and no grafitti. I prefer to clean up trash thrown carelessly than have to deal with a bunch of pucker butted proto Fascists over every nagging little detail regarding the appearance of my house, the state of my vehicle (old and unwashed), whether or not my flowerbeds are weeded, etc.

There are other advantages to the 'hood with a bad rep: professional thieves leave you alone and kids with screwdrivers are easy to defeat; plus, you tend to get a lot more living space for the same money you'd shell out in a "nice" area full of hall monitor types.

Nothing has ever sent me running from a lease or purchase agreement faster than the dreaded word, "covenant."

Be afraid, be very afraid.

[Lars39]

27. Phrase of the day: pucker butted proto Fascists !!!

:thumbsup: :rofl:

[Patiod]

31. Although the community I grew up in had one good covenant

You weren't allowed to have a fence your yard. Pool fences were the only exception - if you needed to fence a dog, you had to rely on an electric fence.

It made for a glorious block to grow up on -- the kids treated the communal back yard like a park, and ran from end to end on summer nights -- the parents could keep an eye on us, and no traffic to worry about. Nice communal touch to pretty standard white clapboard split-levels. I HATE how the yards in my friend's Phoneix community are all walled.

[mongo]

43. Damn Warpy

We actually agree on something. Bunch of gentry sheep on this message board.

[MindPilot]

75. Mongo, I just saw your post after I posted mine

Great minds and all.. :hi:

[MindPilot]

74. Warpy this has got to be a red-letter day!!

we agree on something!

I live in an old, established neighborhood and I would much rather pick up the trash and hear the traffic than hand over my freedom to some busybodies. Sounds like some off these CC&Rs make life under them worse than living on-base.

[Gormy Cuss]

23. Flag flying. House colors. Interior space reconfigurations.

Yes,it is amazing how much some people are willing to concede in order to live in a congregate home ownership situation.

The very first thing I asked when we were looking was whether the property was part of a HO association. I am not someone who is suitable to such living arrangements. It was fine as a renter but I 'm not willing to put up with little busybodies who think my lawn is unkempt or my house is painted an inappropriate color. Just yesterday I drove by a development where one owner had painted his faux Spanish style home purple with white trim. This is a sea of Navajo White stucco houses. I thought, now that's someone pissed off at his homeowners' association.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

29. On my block of city real estate...

I have one home that is painted lemon yellow, one home that is deep orchid, one that is royal blue, and one that is the most startling shade of orange.

My town has polka-dot houses, houses with murals on their sides, and houses that sport colors that can blind.

And I LOVE them all! Every time I see one of the gaudiest, most frightening colors on a house I am overjoyed that I live in a town that allows such free expression. When I visit the 'burbs or communities that have restrictions up the ass, I just wanna run screaming.

How boring. How mundane. How numbing.

Give me big, bold color. Give me Xmas lights up year-round. Give me flags of all kinds (especially the rainbow PACE flags). Give me lawn gnomes and pink flamingos and scrollsaw ducks and toilet bowl planters. I can't get enough of it all.

And when I have finally done carving my 8'+ tiki god for my backyard and put him amongst the birds of paradise with some nice uplighting, it's nice to know my neighbors won't be getting their noses out of joint and complaining to some group to get me to take it down.

I love San Francisco!

[Gormy Cuss]

30. There is no style sheet for my neighborhood either.

The neighborhood was developed in stages with most houses now over 40 years old. With all of the owner changes (add a room here, move a window or door there) and the free style landscaping, it just looks like a place where people live and have lived for a long time. I realize that some people are happier with conformity but it just looks sterile to me.

I'm only a few miles away from you in the East Bay. I have six pink flamingoes in the yard and I'd love to have an 8' tiki god in the neighbor's yard.
:woohoo:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

46. Pink flamingos RULE!!!

:hi:

I have several in my backyard now, including one that lights up at night!

I love the type of neighborhood you are describing -- wonderfully loved in, established.

My sister has lived in Virginia, Colorado, and Texas, and has lived in those kind of sterile communities each time. Bleck. I find nothing more depressing than a development where the trees were ripped out so that the land can be developmed -- and then replaced with sad little immature trees that will look good in maybe 40 years. :eyes: Gives me the willies. :scared:

[Cats Against Frist]

33. Me too!

I bought my house, specifically, because it's painted BRIGHT turquoise and hot pink. It's some classy shit, too -- 6-color trim, Victorian, a tower, some ironwork on the house -- some kind of space-aged lightning rod on the garage.

The thing sat on the market for TWO YEARS before we bought it. I couldn't figure out why, because the town is growing, the staircase and upstairs, at least, still have all the original woodwork. They fucked up the first floor (damn the 1970s), but most of the woodwork is still in the garage.

People said no one wanted to buy it because it's across the street from an implement dealer. They also have a large Victorian, over there, that people are trying to get them to tear down, because it's in disrepair. I say: who the fuck cares? I get to live in a turquoise house!!!

Lots of houses in this town are painted wacky colors -- it's a small town, in the middle of Iowa, that has houses up to 140 years old -- liberals move in here from the IC, and paint their houses beautiful colors. There's a bright purple one, a bright green one, lots of blues, and some that are white, but have amazing multi-color trim work. I love it! My house looks like a fairy tale -- and the contrast looks amazing when the leaves turn yellow, and in the snow.

I consider hell to be rows and rows of tasteful new construction in various shades of shit.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

48. One of the developments my sister lived...

in in Texas required the wooden portion of your house to painted one of three colors: beige, slate blue, or redwood.

Can you say :puke: ?

It reminds me of a 1970s made for TV movie with Karen Valentine where she's a young newlywed who moves into a development and is being forced into conforming with the suburban housewife role by her community. In defience, she paints her garage door psychedelic colors and forms.

That would be me if put in that situation. :)

I am about to paint my 1953 house a wonderful palette of midcentury blues and create a mosaic tile design on the side wall. With an image of San Francisco's "Mona Lisa of the West" -- the Doggie Diner head!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

25. Am I The Only One Who Finds This Analogy Beyond Absurd?

Maybe so, but if that's the case, I'm damned proud to be LOL

[Gormy Cuss]

32. Silly it is,

but some homeowner associations are run by petty dictators.

There are some with minimal rules and boards that strive to keep it that way. Where's the fun in talking about them?

[CottonBear]

51. It is absurd. I say pooh on the original post. n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

63. No, you're not alone. I've been living in a condo complex for 18 years

now and I don't find any of the regulations harsh at all.

[CottonBear]

65. The poster on post 61 thinks we're repressed. I think not. n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

71. Repressed? lol! Extra! Extra! Condo rules are usually no different from

town codes. ie, not parking in the street during a snowstorm, picking up your dogs droppings, and some towns code grass height, how many cars you can park in your driveway, decibal levels, etc.

We have over 50 acres of beautiful property here, much of it forest with a great plethora of wild life, and personally, at this stage in my life, couldn't ask for anything more.

[CabalPowered]

78. No. I have no complaints about our condo arrangement

Having my grass mowed, access to a swimming pool, water and sewer for $35 a month is a good deal. I purchased the place for less than $80k about 5 years ago. The last unit for sale in our complex sold for over $200k and is comparable to my own in terms of size and age. As far as dealing with the board, no problems yet. I've actually been trying to convince the board to provide Internet access via WiFi to all residents and so far they've been open to the idea.

edit: sp

[trixie]

35. I love condo living but...

You have to make sure you don't buy into the crazy condo areas. We don't have any rules except for "can't put out trash until 6:00 p.m. the night before pickup" this is because the trash area is right in front of some of the units. All other rules are just following the city regulations such as no junk cars without plates etc.

Always check over the association rules before buying!

[mondo joe]

39. Ridiculous. If you choose to participate in a cooperative and everyone

sets the rules it's not fascism.

[WoodrowFan]

47. sure it is

it's just voluntary fascism..


You wouldn't catch me living in any neighborhood like that.... None of their f-ing business if my garbage can is green or tan...

[mongo]

42. So true

and I can't believe the responses from the gentry in this thread.

Oh, you are sooo much better than the rest of us for living in your oh so overcontrolled communities.

fucking sheep, the lot of you.

[CottonBear]

52. I'm not gentry. I can't afford a single-family home in my community

that is located in a non-crack house neighborhood.

[Clara T]

45. All Too Funny- All Too True

Her grass is four inches high and she won't use Round-Up!

Burn HERRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

[MadHound]

49. It isn't just in Russia that people are stunned by HOAs

A lot of Americans are stunned that their fellow citizens would subject themselves to this sort of madness. And the whole idea that it keeps property values up is a false one. Sure, there are specific instances where a neighbor's behaviour will effect your property value, but that is rare, and can be remedied with an appropriate lawsuit. For the most part, property values rise and fall on the economics of the time, not on what your neighbor does.

I just find it absurd that people subject themselves to this sort of abuse. You will never, ever find me doing so, I like my independence way to much.

[eggman67]

60. As do I

After 6 years of renting, my wife and I bought our first home in October 05. Nice little row home, remarkably energy efficient - we've yet to use even 3/4 of a tank of heating oil this winter. But, I digress, one of the requirements we gave to our real estate rep was NO HOA. If it has one, don't even bother sending us the listing. I am just not cut out for that kind of living.

[CottonBear]

50. That's not true. I live in a condo townhome. It's what I could afford.

I love my home. Not everyone can afford to live in a single-family home or a single-family attached home or a rural estate or farm. Some of us enjoy living in the city.

Our neighborhood association is over 30 years old. I knew exactly what I was signing up for when I purchased my home. Our neighborhood is quiet, clean and attractive and our property values are high.

It's not the same as living in a single-family home but it has many advantages. :)

There are lots of Democrats in my neighborhood along with a (very) few kooky and/or grumpy neighbors. Most all of us get along fine.

edit: My neighborhood is a 30 years old New Urbanist style neighborhood with sidewalks and private streets with parking on the curb for guests and alleys around back for access to our fenced patios, carports and back yards and parking areas and our common lawns and woods.

[Occulus]

61. How nice for you. Really.

That doesn't make it any less bad for the soul of this country. It is, to a large part, the willingness of many poor, deluded Americans- some of them on this very thread- to accept these sorts of "neighborhood associations" that has led us as a nation to the place we are today.

Until people stop being comfortable with this sort of repression- and it is repression, even if it's "comfortable" to you- our nation will remain in danger of being run by exactly the sort of people in office today.

[CottonBear]

64. I am not repressed. I chose to buy my home and I enjoy living there. n/t

[eggman67]

69. No, repression is...

...you telling someone else how they should live. I detest HOAs, I choose not to join one. If someone else likes it and chooses to join one that is their free choice as well.

[Inland]

70. I"m sorry, but you are completely full of shit.

It's a voluntary association, run by vote of people who have the exact same set of interests in maintaining property values. Even if one loses the vote, nobody has to stay. It's no more repressive or fascist than owning shares in a corporation, entering into a contract, renting an apartment, or having a government.

[snooper2]

59. there is no fucking way I would be in a "homeowners association"

no way...

That was the #1 requirement before I bought my house. The neighborhood I live in is 30 years old, and people don't have 5 cars in the yard, or dishwashers on the front porch. A lot of people forget that cities by and large have laws/regulations against this. For instance, your only allowed 2 garage sales a year. (I'm in East Plano)

So, to all of you who signed the bottom line that says you can't plant a weeping willow in your OWN front yard...

SUCKERS!

[atommom]

62. We have friends who live in a condo. Their homeowners'

association has gotten crazier by the year, because it has been taken over by compulsive busybodies. One person was cited for using the "wrong" color of wood chips in his garden, for example. They also tried to force the homeowners to use a specific professional house painter (as well as using only the allowed colors). Our friends painted their own condo, in defiance. It was still one of the allowed colors, so they didn't wind up facing disciplinary action ... just petulant whining.

We live in an older neighborhood. There is a neighborhood association, but they are quite lax, so I'm OK with that. ;)

[leftofthedial]

68. posting messages critical of condo committees is FORBIDDEN

You are on the list, Patiod

[bleedingheart]

76. I have to agree...

I have listened as friends have bitched and moaned about their associations and how they can't do shit to their yard without permission... I always say..."You should have read about that before buying"...

I also find it interesting how people can be priced out of a neighborhood when the fees go up....

A friend moved to a "growing community" because it had low taxes...
She wasn't the only one with this bright idea.
So she buys into this special housing community with association fees..etc but she justifies it by saying..."my taxes are low"...

But you see all the other people who move there do so for the same reason and Voila' you have a community that now needs to build more schools, maintain more roads and provide more services than they used to....and guess what....the taxes go up...bwahahahahaha