Oprah, Martha, Hillary : Why we love to hate them when they're on our side

[prolesunited]

I've noticed a trend. Whenever these women are mentioned here, many vociferously take them to task for all of their (real or perceived) failings.

Anybody have any theories as to why this is the case?

[Midlodemocrat]

1. I like Oprah, personally.

and I thought her show yesterday was outstanding.

[WI_DEM]

2. I don't hate any of them

As for Hillary I respect her, but I don't want her to be our nominee in '08 because she has too much baggage. We can't nominate someone who right off the bat has as high of negatives as she has and expect to win.

[Lerkfish]

10. my objections are with her voting record on some issues, but mainly

because I'm constantly being pushed that Hillary is our candidat in '08 BY REPUBLICANS.
that raises odd little red flags in my psyche. And it doesn't even have to be her fault or her complicity or anything like that, but as WI_DEM points out, we already know she'll have a tough row to hoe. We'd be spending a huge amount of time, effort and money allaying bad perceptions. I see it as a losing proposition.

All the more reason I don't like being pushed in that direction.

[shireen]

3. Martha is my hero!

I tape her show everyday ... except today, my VCR just broke!

Martha Stewart for President 2008!


:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[Skidmore]

4. Well, as for Martha, I never knew she was a Dem until

she was arrested. She annoyed me long before that. The idea that anyone needs to tell the rest of us how to live is galling. The idea that everyone should care to adopt the same "style" is galling. Martha's whole industry is geared to teaching people how to be the best consumers possible, to teach them to want what they didn't know they wanted. Martha has annoyed me for many reasons and for a long time. She still does.

[shireen]

9. you don't get it...

Martha is my escape from reality! In her "world", the biggest tragedy is a souffle going flat. How I love that world!

:+

[hfojvt]

26. but that is an upper class reality

for them to be self absorbed about their "problems" and not give a flying fig about the working class, the war, the environment, etc. But make sure your house is fully decorated and your meals elaborate.

[shireen]

33. oh ... just lemme dream, will ya?! ;-) nt

[Skidmore]

31. I don't have time for her "world"; reality is very jarring. And, besides

how much stuff do you need to futz with in this lifetime.

[ProfessorGAC]

5. Not So Much About Hillary, Proles, But For The Other Two, . . .

. . .it's not them i dislike, but the cult of personality around them creeps me out.

The Oprah worshippers i find distrubing. Like the Simpson's episode with "The Leader". Martha's fans were headed that way, just not as nauseatingly fawning. And, then she got her raw deal for lying about a crime she didn't actually commit and went to jail, so her "cult" had to take a breather.

Hillary i neither like nor dislike. She's ok. Smart, capable, and shrewd, but too much a politican, and not enough a strategic thinker for my taste.

So, really no slam on any of them for me, but the whole "Oprah thing" is just a little weird.
The Professor

[prolesunited]

11. You're not the type of person I'm getting at

I have something else in mind.

Hope all is well. :hi:

[ProfessorGAC]

14. Oh. Then, I'll Butt Out

Still, the Oprahphiles creep me out. I just had to say it again.

The Professor

[prolesunited]

15. I agree

Anybody that follows someone like that, celebrity, religious leader, Oprah, *is* rather creepy.

[ProfessorGAC]

16. Seems Too "BushBot" Like

I'll do all my own thinking thank you! I don't get how people get that wrapped up in someone else's point of view. But, then i'm a pompous ass, so i guess that explains it.
The Professor

[prolesunited]

19. You're just jealous

They should clearly be wrapped up in YOUR point of view. :P

[ProfessorGAC]

21. Absolutely

You know how i am!
The Professor:evilgrin:

[hfojvt]

28. Oprah, herself makes me sick

A couple of times I have watched her show and it is all about fawning over the rich and famous. "Oh, isn't it great to be rich Brittney?, Michael Jackson, Tiger Woods? BTW audience and critics I am getting an autographed copy of Tiger's latest book for FREE even though I have enough money to buy a copy for the entire city of Los Angeles."

[mattclearing]

6. A lot of people here aren't Democrats, or hate mainstream Dems. n/t

[Lerkfish]

13. interesting labeling.

not sure I agree with either label you propose, there.

I think its possible to be a dem and not like Hillary's voting record or stand on the war.
I also question the term "mainstream". what do you mean by that?

[mattclearing]

20. I dunno. It just sort of came out.

It's the only real common thread I could think of between Oprah Winfrey, Martha Stewart, and Hillary Clinton. They are all household names. That's really all there is to it.

But there are a lot of people here for whom those people could never do enough. I am probably one of them.

[Connie_Corleone]

7. I don't know what the deal is with the hatred towards Martha and Oprah.

They're not politicians. They do their own thing. Arnold was on Oprah's show. So what? She's friends with his wife.

Martha and Oprah have a lot of money. So what? They can do whatever they want with their money.

Some people won't be satisfied until they give away most of their money to progressive causes.

I liked them both. I like Hillary too. That doesn't mean I agree with her on everything, because I don't.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DURHAM D]

17. Nice - very grownup response. eom

[prolesunited]

18. Thanks

Your personal attacks added a lot to this discussion. I guess I don't really care to be on the side of a person like you.

[seabeyond]

12. i was an oprah fan for two decades. she turned me off with arnie

she sold out on everything she had promoted in two decades for empowering women with her interview with arnie and shriver. so i stopped watching. plus i though her show lost the education flavor and was mostly girlie stuff, not as interesting as in the past. i am allowed.

hillary i dont trust, but then not trusting bill either. seem to chummy with bush... though i like some things hillary says when addressing bush and issues, just dont hear enough

and martha, .... i dont care about one way or another. her jail time was bogus.

[Katherine Brengle]

22. I don't really care either way about any of them, but I think it is a good

thing to use any public platform you have to speak your mind--it's a privilege and I like seeing people use it, especially when they use it wisely, as these sometimes do.

[mongo]

23. Oprah's not on my side

Oprah: Still Addicted to Demonizing Sex

It's hard to imagine Oprah Winfrey finding new ways to be destructive about sexuality. She has already famously announced that sooner or later, all men cheat. And she unleashed Dr. Phil on an unsuspecting public--you know, the guy who said that asking your wife to go to a swing club "is making a whore out of her." For more of her sins, see my 2003 article, "What Oprah & Dr. Phil Don't Understand About Sex" (www.sexed.org/archive/article18.html).

Oprah's show last month on "porn addiction" hit a new low. She reinforced several myths about pornography; asserted that porn use must be eliminated from couples rather than negotiated by them; and stated that something routinely done by 40 million people is inevitably destructive.

The show was her standard morality play, in which a celebrity (singer Kirk Franklin) confesses his addiction but overcomes it through God; an ordinary couple describes their similar experience; and an expert analyzes these strangers on the spot, then mournfully agrees that "porn addiction" is a massive problem, which needs a 12-step approach, lots of "support," and of course Oprah's educational work.

Unfortunately, this "education" included Franklin's unchallenged assertion that he became "addicted" to porn at age 8; Oprah calling his consensual sexplay with childhood peers an "obsession;" Franklin saying he was constantly guilt-ridden about having premarital sex, but blaming his guilt on porn; Oprah repeating that sizzling but meaningless old line about "the crack cocaine of porn addiction;" and Oprah accepting that watching porn is infidelity.

more http://www.sexualintelligence.org/newsletters/issue71.html

[madrchsod]

24. oprah is on her side no one elses

martha is a good cook and she decorates well
hillary is a republican light in the politics of today

[iconoclastNYC]

25. I've noticed a trend

People go out of thier way to defend Hillary from criticism but can never make a semi-compelling argument why we should support her for higher office.

Interesting.

[AtomicKitten]

27. I think people are cranky because of the status quo - for good reason -

and dump on certain people (dems) for no particular reason.

And then they confuse reason with defending those same people.

Some of the knee-jerk abject hatred for certain Democrats reminds me of my son when he was a contrary 2-year-old. No reason, just crankiness, just because.

[Zenlitened]

29. Fear of strong women?

Nah, ya'd never encounter that in progressive circles!

:D

[stanwyck]

30. I have to laugh at

the reasons I hear for why people "hate" these women. "They're cold." Really? I've heard that one of my heroes, Jimmy Carter, is not really that "warm" in person. So what? I think he's been a strong voice for America -- and what America should be.
We don't really know these people. But they're characterized as "cold" and "too ambitious".
It's sexism. Pure and simple.
And we women are as guilty as the men.

[eggman67]

32. In the case of Oprah & Martha

I think some people tend to confuse "Public Figure" with "Public Servant" and project percived responsibilites onto them.

Neither is my particular cup of tea, but I've got no personal animosity toward them and until they're elected to public office they owe me nothing.