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UAE will be running shipping, NOT security. Security will not change

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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:05 PM
Original message
UAE will be running shipping, NOT security. Security will not change
for what that is worth.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nothing but a talking point. Literally.
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. It is an actual fact. Plain and simple.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. It's nonsense. You are a victim of Republican talking points.
To say that a company that runs a shipping port has no responsibility for security is insane. No offense, it's just insane.
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. It doesnt. The British did not run security and the UAE will not either.
A fact is a fact.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. This is like saying that you don't run security in your own home.
Though you don't understand it, you are arguing that security in your own home is run by George W. Bush because he's in charge of national security.

Complete nonsense.
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. UAE is going to run cargo/shipping. That is it. Security is by another
company and ICE. Thats how it was with the British, thats how it will be with UAE.

Once again the FACT is that UAE is only taking over shipping operations. Current security will not change. Period.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:27 PM
Original message
You don't understand what you're saying.
Somebody has convinced you that only the people with security contracts are responsible for security. You are incorrect. You are a victim of Bush talking points.
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
43. So, Longshoremen are responsible for security??? The simple fact
is that UAE will not be any more responsible for security then the British were. I fail to see why you continue to deny this fact. Do you have any evidence otherwise? If I am incorrect I would like to know.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #43
53. Now you're just making things up.
See ya.
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #53
65. Point out one thing that is untrue. Bet you can not.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #65
71. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. How did I do that???
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #75
89. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #89
100. Give an actual example. If you are going to call me a liar prove it.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #100
103. Read your post #43.
Do you think if you keep lying, your lies will disappear?
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #103
110. Er, I never stated you said anything. You make no sense at all.
Sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about. You seem confused. That post doesnt say anything about you. I am going to stop replying to you now. There seems no reason to continue. Hope you work things out.


Peace Out
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #110
114. You said that I deny, "that UAE will not be any more responsible
for security then the British were."

You made it up. It's a lie.

Now you're lying about why you're running and hiding. Maybe it's because you've been caught lying about lies.
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #43
56. The company is a state run company.. The same state that funneled and
laundered money for the 911 hijackers.. They don't recognize Israel, and they do recognize the Taliban.. This isn't cool..
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. But they will be loading and loading.. One of the most vulnerable areas
Edited on Wed Feb-22-06 06:24 PM by converted_democrat
there is.. That isn't cool..
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. no, the local Longshoremen will be unloading/loading
every single one of these contracts requires the use of ILA-approved dockworkers.
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #31
44. Well, than Lou Dobbs has his facts messed up, because he just said
it 5 minutes ago.. It still isn't cool.. UAE funneled and laundered money for the 911 hijackers.. This is a "state" run company.. This isn't cool.. Would an Arab nation let us do this in their ports? No..
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #44
54. Lou Dobbs has his facts messed up
or he misspoke.

and Netlink, a company with ties to the Bush family, operates a terminal in Shanghai, it's not uncommon.
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. This is a state run company.. The same "state" that laundered and
funneled money to the 911 hijackers.. This is not cool..
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #61
82. ok, that is not correct
sorry. Yes, money that support Mohammad Atta and Co. came through, not from, Dubai. Why is that exactly? because Dubai is a banking haven. Just like Switzerland (where every criminal and terrorist organisation in the world has bank accounts) and the Caymans. Because you can bank anonymously in Dubai. I can go there, as a US citizen, and open a bank account with no identification. hell, I can open one remotely, they don't know who I am, or where I am, only a number. If you want to launder money in the middle east, you use Dubai, not because the government cooperates, but because they actually have bank privacy laws that are inviolable. Same with shipping through the Middle East, if you have something you want to hide, you send it through Dubai.

Dubai is not a police state, like everyone else in the region (save Israel) so it attracts a certain criminal element, just like Israel does (ever heard of the Israeli Mob? they ain't nice people, but I don't think they operate with the consent of the Israeli government, or blame Tel Aviv/Jerusalem when they do something)

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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #82
86. Not a police state (unless you're gay).
No, it's a regular bastion of free thought. So free they recognized the Taliban as a ligit government and only stopped that when it got too hot.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #86
91. you know, coming from a country that still fails to recognize Cuba
I'm not sure we can complain about that. Like it or not, the Taliban was the functional government of Afghanistan, the whole recognition/lack of recognition thing is just stupid, even the US had informal contacts with the Taliban before 2001 about some things, it's what happens.

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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #91
95. The fuck I can't complain about it.
And thanks for ignoring the treatment of gays.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #95
109. Look, that is a side issue, frankly
and one that is personally very important to me. BUT, our top 15 trading partners don't have the best records on homosexuality. I'm wearing a sweatshirt made in Malaysia (illegal) jeans made in Macao (illegal) a t-shirt made in LA (legal) and shoes made in South Korea (illegal) I'm typing this on a computer made in China (illegal) watching a TV made in Taiwan (illegal) heck, my socks were made in the Phillipines (illegal) and I'm drinking a Barbaresco from Italy (illegal)

While I am ashamed of the way our government treats homosexuals, and miss my sister (who moved to the UK to take advantage of the civil unions benefit) terribly, I can't use that as my sole arbitrator of what countries I will and will not trade with, that I'm going to be wearing a lot of English leather (fair enough, my wallet was made in England), and wearing Dutch clogs. Certainly the US should not be calling the kettle black on the treatment of homosexuals at this time.

does that address your question?
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #109
115. Yes - it addressed my question by establishing that you
don't care about who we do business with so long as the money is good.

Thanks.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #115
121. well, that's your gross exagerration award of the day
what I said is that a country's treatment of homosexuals should not be the only determinant. And, unless you live in a house heated only by coal or wood stoves or hydro, don't own a single thing that uses fossil fuels, or a single thing made in Asia or Latin America or Africa, then you are simply making excuses. Given an option, I will support more friendly regimes, which is why I prefer Dubai to Singapore, (the other option)

Where did you get that Canadian/Dutch computer you are using, anyway? you do have one, right? seriously, I'd like to buy one, please tell me so I can stop buying computer parts made with quasi-slave labour in China.
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #82
90. I'm sorry, I'm not buying it.. I don't think this is a good idea, and
I'm not going to change my position on this.. Waste your breath on someone else..
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #90
97. fair enough, but anytime I see you, or anyone else
post something that is blatently, and provably, false, I'm going to call them on it. There is so much information floating around out there that is bullshit, especially from the media, that I feel an obligation to point out the facts when I can. I hope you would do the same for me, if I posted something factually untrue that you knew the correct answer to. It's how we learn. We can't all be experts in everything, so we depend on each other to correct us when we swallow the bullshit, right?

be well.
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #97
105. Everyone is wrong except you, a hand full of others, and the
Edited on Wed Feb-22-06 07:02 PM by converted_democrat
president.. Like I said.. Don't waste your breath on me, I ain't buying..
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #105
112. ok, ignore the facts, then
remember, the great majority of Americans can neither find the UAE on a map, konw that Dubai is the capitol of that federation, tell you the make up of the government of the UAE, tell you that there is a US naval base there or even that Chimpanzees and Humans are descended from the same species originally.

So I'll take my facts, you take your belief.
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #112
118. Again, sell it to someone who will buy it... This is a state owned company
and I think it's a bad idea.. Sell it to someone else..
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:50 PM
Original message
Lou Dobbs is a fucking idiot.
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
99. And? You think this is a good idea? I don't.. He's dedicated the
last week of his program to this issue.. Sorry if I think he might have a little better handle on this than you do.. Waste your breath on someone else, I'm not buying..
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
113. well
hes smarter than most of the idiots in the MSM on Television.

Sorry.
But hes the only voice I see on TV speaking out for workers.
I cant hate the man.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
116. He'll have to take consolation in being right. n/t
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
67. and ?
and the company ISNT OWNED by the COUNTRY OF GREAT BRITAIN. Its private.
god.
the company in question IS owned by the GOVERNMENT of the UAE.
thats the issue here.
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Cool, but the company is still owned by the UAE.
Not cool.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. UAE will be making the Security PLANs and submitting them to the
Coast Guard for review.
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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. Like having an untrained dog guarding the steaks
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. And security is shit, AFAIC one alarm is as good as another to
wake up a nation that is clueless.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. Is that what they're "saying"? Their words mean nothing.
Edited on Wed Feb-22-06 06:09 PM by shance
Americans are fools if they believe anything they say now.
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. No its a fact. The British didnt run security either.
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KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. And this makes the deal okay?
There is no way you can defend this deal at all
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. I am not defending anything. DUers keep arguing incorrectly that
the UAE is taking over security. Just want to clarify things.
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KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Whatever
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Who does the hiring and firing ???
scotty mcmuffin wouldn't answer it. How bout you ?

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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. UAE will of course.
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. There ya go.
nuff said
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. since it's all unionized
pretty much the ILA local.
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FormerRepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
8. UAE will be handling manifests, which means they know what goes...
...in and out, and they can easily manipulate the manifests for smuggling and other questionable activities.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. read this thread
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:26 PM
Original message
Tell ya what I think...
back when I spent my days insuring ships, cargos, and terminal operators and had some salty retired sea captains working for me checking things out...

Customs inspected the ships for contraband and documentation.

INS was there in case there were illegals trying to get in.

FDA and Agriculture were there to check on safety, suitability, and standards of everything from canned shrimp to rubbers to the radiation let out by TVs and microwaves.

Port captains, port police, pilots, the Coast Guard, stevedores, and godknowshowmanyothers were there doing their things with regulations, standards, and general operations.

And they only managed to get a small percentage of the illegals, contraband, bad food, unmarked rubbers, bilge dumping, Ginseng and all the other crap they were looking for. The ports are just too damn big with too many ships from too many places with too much cargo to look at every box that comes through. And the terminal operator is often the one link in the chain with the least control over anything. The trouble we had with terminal operators was usually when they were cheap bastards and let things fall apart. Everyone else in the port was either a thief or chasing one.

So, what's changed to cause this hysteria?

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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
59. the magic word you are looking for is "arab" I'm afraid.
strange how very few of the people who are actually involved in the industry are concerned about this, isn't it?
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #59
66. No, not "Arab" - it's "complicit in terrorist acts" to say nothing
of "repressive regime".

And my arab american spouse will tell you the same.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #59
69. Of course! This morning the Port Manager at Newark...
was interviewed, and he had no problem with the sale.

Just one more foreign operator of one of the seven terminals there.

But, this one's an AY-RAB!

Winning their hearts and minds every minute of the day, aren't we?

(Haven't seen this much hysteria since the old Communist witch hunts.)


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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. That's just as bad....
Suppose some terrorist is transporting something to use in an attack against our country. And the UAE running the shipping, allow the terrorist to slip into our ports with materials to harm us with.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. UAE will run shipping and security will remain..
That is, 19 of 20 cargo units will continue to be allowed into the country completely unchecked.

Who runs security on the originating side?
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. The UAE or one of many foreign companies that control the ports worldwide.
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. Sean Hannity? Is that you?
If not, you sound just like him.

Which is the evil twin?
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Is what I am saying not true???????? Name calling because you do not
like something someone states. tsk tsk.

I think the deal is a bad idea by the way. I brought this up because I am reading post after post about UAE taking over security. Guess I should have let some remain ignorant. Guess ignorance is bliss.
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. Is Sean Hannity a four letter word now?
well, S-E-A-N is.

My bad.
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
101. Sean Hannity is a stupid fuck who like other Republicans
drums up fear and paranoia against the Middle East as a cheap means of promoting his political agenda.

It's wrong to berate PassingThrough for choosing not to emulate this racist behaviour like so many other "liberals" at DU.

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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
42. the United States Coast Guard
and the Customs run the cargo checks. It is the United States government that allows 19 of 20 cargo containers to evade inspection, not the company doing the offloading.
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jim3775 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. They could easily obstruct or bypass the security if they...
own the ports.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
47. they don't own the ports.
they operate one or two terminals at the ports, using local labour. obstructing or bypassing the security from within would involve the use of local unionized labour to do so.
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #47
108. But the Arabs will convert the union workers to Islam
and have them sneak nuclear weapons into the United States.

Hop on the racist bandwagon!

Everybody's doing it!
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #108
117. Racism is assuming that a handful of dictators represent a race of people.
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. Security currently sucks.
Difference will be it will suck with bin Laden frienldy port operators.
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Tin Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. UAE will compile database: manifests, points of origin, ect & INSPECTIONS
...armed with a comprehensive database of manifests, shipping companies, time and place of origin and port of arrival, and INSPECTION HISTORIES - Al Queda could conceivably reverse-engineer the methods by which US Customs selects containers for spot inspection (it's not entirely random).

If Al Queda were to learn what peaks the interest of our inspectors, they only need to do the opposite in order to smuggle WMD into the US. Having DP operate these ports makes it easier for terrorists to gain databases of shipping data - giving them an intelligence coup and perhaps pointing the way 'in' that they're looking for...

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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Who do you think ships into US ports??? Foreign companies control
ports. They know what is coming in and out of ours.
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
26. off topic question
is dubya right on wiretapping too ?
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Lol, took you a while to show up. :P
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. nice deflection
:eyes:
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. You resort to personal attacks. It is clear what you are implying.
Not still mad because I did not like your shameless ad begging for money are you?
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. You also accused the same of DU.
and I never attacked you. Shall I embarass you n front of everyone ?
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. Lol, you are to obvious. I am not here for personal attacks or flaming.
I wish you the best regardless of your motives.

Peace Out
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. thought so
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
28. But they are still goddamn A-RABS!
TERRAISTS -- ALL OF 'EM!

CAN'T TRUSS 'EM!

:sarcasm:
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #28
70. I dunno - my Arab American spouse thinks it's a bad and
dangerous idea.

Looks like Rove hit the liberal G-spot by crying racism (when in fact it's about the state's actions, not ethnicity).
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
30. And Who Here DIDN'T Know This?
If you're going to belabor the obvious, you should at least try to explain why.
The Professor
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #30
51. Read the replies and you will see several that still deny this is true.
Go to GD and look at the topics and you will see several that say UAE will be in charge of security.

I was trying to clear things up. Seems some people do not want to hear the truth if its not what they wish it to be.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. You misunderstand. UAE would not be directly responsible for
security - we know that. But their management is still a SECURITY RISK.

That's the thing.
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #58
68. But foreign companies control the ports the cargo is going to and coming
from. They are not going to have access to any new info.

I think the sale is a bad idea but just thing the security argument is bogus.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #68
74. All foreign nations are not the same. Or would you trust
all people to babysit your children equally?
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #74
83. Major companies are run by China, Singapore (sp?), Denmark and UAE...
Even if we own our ports we will still be shipping to foreign ports.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #83
87. I feel like I need Garret Morris to interpret so you'll get this.
I know.

And I'm telling you ALL NATIONS ARE NOT THE SAME.

Our relations with them are not the same. Their interests are not the same. Their activities are not the same.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #68
79. Then Think About It More Carefully
The logisitics of transport, manifest documentation, port clearances, in and out, scheduling, coordination of inspection, loading and unloading are all in their hands. You don't think that that poses potential security conflicts? You've got to be kidding. How can it not? The entire operation and the inherent scheduling and documentation is in their hands.

I don't think you've thought this through.
The Professor
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #79
88. I do not think the sale is a good idea like I have stated.
The whole intent of my even starting this thread was to point out that some were saying that UAE was taking over security when in fact they are only taking over shipping.

The thread appears to have taken on a life of its own and gotten out of hand. Maybe because of my inability to articulate my meaning. <shrug> Some people just seem hostile when anyone disagrees with them. Heck, my OP only stated one little fact and look what happened. Guess starting threads is something I should avoid.

Peace Out
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #88
98. But your premise was false. Even without taking over security
the UAE would have responsibility for aspects of security.

We've already covered this. You misunderstood.
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #98
102. Aspects maybe but they would not be running actual security.
Guess I was not clear or maybe I needed to spell things out more. I am new here and was unaware of the hostility the post would generate. Live and learn I guess. I am out of the threading starting business.

Peace Out
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #102
106. Like I told you - no one thinks they would be running security -
or at least hardly anyone thinks that.

You have, I repeat, misunderstood.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #51
64. I've Been Here Daily For Over 5 Years
And, i've read this thread all the way through. You seem intent on making a point that isn't educating anyone. This has been discussed, including the detail you insist nobody knows, dozens of times in the last 2 and half days.

If YOU go through GD, you will notice at least a dozen and half posts by me in the last 2 days. So, obviously i've been here the whole time.

I think you are wrong about this. Folks here are way to aware to have let this slip by them. They know it, despite your insistence that they do not.

And it would appear that you don't understand the implications that lie beyond the simple X/Y relationship of who runs the ports and who provides security.

The Professor
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #64
73. If you chk recent threads and the replies here you will plainly see
people still seem to be confused.

Also, if you had read all the replies you would have noticed that I have stated several times that I still think the sale is a bad idea.

Peace Out
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. No - they are not confused, by and large. They consider any
involvement with states that support terrorism to be a threat to security, even if they are not formally responsible for security.
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. But they are misstating the sale. UAE will not be taking over security.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. Let me try this again: We almost all know the UAE will not be
taking over security. We know that. We know.

The stance of myself and others is that EVEN WITHOUT TAKING OVER SECURITY their participation poses a THREAT TO SECURITY.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. Thanks Joe
I give up. I don't see one post in this thread that implies someone thinks the UAE firm will run security. But Passing Through insists that's what people think.

The Professor
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #73
84. Show Me One Of Those Confused Posters
I can read too! I don't see one post where someone seems confused as to who is in charge of security. In fact, there are several replies here that make it clear that the potential conflict of who is in charge of the business end creates security conflicts, no matter who is doing the inspections. Yet, you keep repeating the same statement.

This is a horrible idea, for a series of reasons, and i think right here on this thread, those reasons are well enumerated. Yet, i can't find one post by a confused person who thinks DPI is going to be in charge of security.
The Professor
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Libby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
36. It's worth nothing.
But thanks for playing.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
39. They are going to know EVERYTHING about port security in each of those
Edited on Wed Feb-22-06 06:29 PM by jsamuel
cities. Will they have the ability to completely circumvent the system? Probably not, but that country will know every weak spot there is in our security and will have people working with these weak spots daily.



This deal is effectively putting targets on the backs of these cities. The deal creates weak spots in the most populated cities on the east coast. It’s just a plain bad idea.



All that without considering how trustworthy the UAE is… Here is some info on the UAE:


UAE royal family met with Bin Laden, saved him from CIA hit
http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/hearing8/9-11Commission_Hearing_2004-03-24.htm

MR. FIELDING: Yeah. Well, I would appreciate that on behalf of the Commission if you could do that because it seemed that this -- when the intelligence was so good, and that by the time the camp was dismantled days and days had passed.

So I would appreciate --

MR. TENET: There's also a question, I believe, as to whether bin Ladin was inside or outside the camp --

MR. FIELDING: Of course.

MR. TENET: -- it was a complicating issue in this whole thing -- and whether he was there or not. So there's a second complicating factor here.

The third complicating factor here is, you might have wiped out half the royal family in the UAE in the process, which I'm sure entered into everybody's calculation in all this.

But in any event, I would like -- I will try and reconstruct the data as best I can, in terms of what I had in my possession at the time.






The UAE won’t recognize Israel. (While Bush is making a deal with the UAE, he won’t touch Hamas because they won’t recognize Israel.)





The UAE was one of three countries that recognized the Taliban as legitimate rulers of Afganistan.





Some of the 9/11 hijackers came from UAE and were fincanced through UAE banks and the UAE government would not cooperate with the investigation after 9/11.





In general the UAE has 10X more problems with terrorists than Iraq had before we invaded them.

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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
45. remember the story of the Trojan Horse?
as Cafferty alluded earlier
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
46. and.. The child molester will be "babysitting"your child..not adopting
:evilgrin:
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
48. UAE will have the manifests and shipping data ...
Don't cha think that is a TRUE security risk?!?

Sure, homeland security will make sure there's order and 5% of the cargo is inspected. But ole' UAE personnel will KNOW ALL that is shipped.

Not a good idea on the Operations Security Front, aye?
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. Where do you think cargo is shipped? Who do you think controls those?
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. Personnel from the UAE, of course ... that's exactly my point !
Edited on Wed Feb-22-06 06:40 PM by ShortnFiery
In other Words = There are many layers of security - the shipping data, especially of a military nature is what's referred to as a part of Operations Security. This is not Port Security but an entirely different entity. And yeah, UAE will know EXACTLY what goes through ALL these ports. Not smart ... in fact utterly incompetent.
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #62
111. But dont they already know alot of it? Goods come and go to the ports
they already control.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #111
119. Kindly take off your blinders - they have ALL the essential details
about incoming and outgoing CARGO that could support, God forbid, another 9/11, or worse. :scared:

No way! If this goes through we will be hypocrites not to fully deal with Hamas? Why, because "our buddies" in the UAE also do NOT, I repeat, do NOT recognize the Sovereign State of Israel.

This deal stinks! It's all about Daddy Bush, Carlye and little brother Neil's investments. :puke: It's about the ruling classes making money ... those who are considered royalty in the USA and UAE.
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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
50. Congratulations!
As one of the select few who still have their heads up their ass, you win an all-expense trip to Iraq! Yippeee!

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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #50
72. head up ass
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #50
77. Wow, a personal attack! Way to add to the discussion!
Glad to know you care enough to reply.

Peace Out
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Mazie Gordon Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
52. One of the problems with this deal
is that the existing handful of global shipping companies have fought (and no doubt lobbied against) increased security for container shipping, a la the airline industry pre-9/11. This isn't the first time the dangers of uninspected containers have been pointed to as problematic. Only about 4% of containers are ever inspected, correct? Don't expect bush to increase that percentage anytime soon.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #52
85. That is beside the point ...
Again, the UAE will control the SHIPPING = Knowledge of all materials in transit. Hum? The Coast Guard will make sure all the Fire Extinguishers work and the Ship is properly represented with crew and documents.

The Coast Guard will not control SQUAT with regard to the content of the CARGO.

Guess who will know EVERYTHING about the content of the cargo and it's transit location(s)?

ding! ding! ding!

The UAE where 2 of the 9/11 Hijackers came from.

Feel safer now?
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
63. The Coast Guard
is our only line of defense. I don't trust the DHS.
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
92. Alright who recommended this? lol funny funny nt
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #92
104. You my first stalker! I feel honored!
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
93. All the manifests will be available
on what is being shipped and where.
Prime meat for terrorists.
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PassingThrough Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #93
107. Doesnt the receiving port also get that information?
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
94. Having a long term lease
gives the lessee quite a bit of 'ownership' of a facility like this. I would think the lease terms give them veto powers over quite a few matters.

This distinction you raise I'm afraid may be more of a talking point than a real distinction over dominion of the ports
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CabalPowered Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
96. Managing the manifests is step one in port security
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
120. WRONG! The US will still be doing inspections, BUT DP will
be responsible for hiring security:
http://thestar.com.my/columnists/story.asp?file=/columnists/2006/2/19/stateside/13441429&sec=State%20Side
The deal allows the company, except for cargo screening functions performed by the Department of Homeland Security, to be responsible for securing cargo coming in and out of the port, the port facility itself, and the hiring of security personnel


more links:
http://www.californiaconservative.org/?p=2275
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/am-port0220,0,7514795.story?coll=ny-nycnews-headlines
http://khon.com/khon/display.cfm?storyID=11438&sid=1151

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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
122. Locking. Please see this:
3. Civility: Treat other members with respect. Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

and, in the more detailed membership guidelines:

Personal Attacks, Civility and Respect

The administrators of Democratic Underground are working to provide a place where progressives can share ideas and debate in an atmosphere of mutual respect. Despite our best efforts, some of our members often stray from this ideal and cheapen the quality of discourse for everyone else. Unfortunately, it is simply impossible to write a comprehensive set of rules forbidding every type of antisocial behavior. The fact that the rules do not forbid a certain type of post does not automatically make an uncivil post appropriate, nor does it imply that the administrators approve of disrespectful behavior. Every member of this community has a responsibility to participate in a respectful manner, and to help foster an atmosphere of thoughtful discussion. In this regard, we strongly advise that our members exercise a little common decency, rather than trying to parse the message board rules to figure out what type of antisocial behavior is not forbidden.

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