Everyone is a little bit racist.....

[Fountain79]

I don't know if anyone is familiar with Avenue Q. It's like a f'd-up Sesame Street. One of their songs is "Everyone is a little bit racist". Now before this post get flamed and/or locked, I am the product of a bi-racial, bi-cultural marriage, my father being mexican and my mother being white. While it is cliche, I have friends of all different stripes and backgrounds. That being said....

Has our society gotten to the point where we just deny our racist tendencies? Before you jump on me....how many of you have dated more than 3 different ethnic groups? What color are most of your friends? What color are most of the people in your neighborhood? Yet I think there is this tendency to want to bottle up racial frustrations and repeat the mantra, "I am not racist, I am not racist." Have I ever made an assumption based on race, yes I have. If I see a white guy and a black guy in a club I would put money on the black guy knowing how to dance better than the white guy. If I met someone Jewish I could probably safely guess that they are at the very least intelligent, and at least middle class in his/her socio economic level.

Basically have we gotten into the habit of denying that darker part of ourselves?

[Kerrytravelers]

1. To reject what is different from us if human nature.

To ask questions, to open up and to learn about others is harder... but it is what makes us liberals (in my opinion.) I never thought I had a racist bone in my body. Then I joined DU. I had no idea that somethings I thought were considered racist or ofensive. Instead of running from it in denial, I spent (and still do spend time) at the African-American Board here at DU and have learned a lot--- both about myself and about other people.

Am I perfect? No. No one is. But I can keep my mind open and my defenses down and listen to others. It's not denying myself, but learning things that I never knew about myself.

kt

[Karenina]

25. Yours is a great post, dear KT.

We ALL have been indoctrinated. The point is to honestly examine what that indoctrination has wrought in OUR OWN MINDS.

It is a much greater "offense" to call out racism, bigotry, and prejudice here on this site, which represents some of the BEST America has to offer, than to closely examine the subtleties of the posts in question. The DENIAL is ALWAYS worse than the ignorance.

A great part of the difficulty is the "supremacist assumption" that cedes itself the "right" to DEFINE the terms. Amis don't "get it" whether it's Shani Davis or Randal Pinkett or even DPW. The lowest common denominator reigns supreme.

Iraq, Haiti, Katrina, Iran and NOW the Phillipines, the dominant "culture" in the U.S. will continue to turn a blind eye, as they perceive it is in their "interests" to do so. I would hasten to add these are subconscious "default templates." However, they will hasten the deaths of ALL OF US.

[Orsino]

42. Yep. We are probably hard-wired for a little bit of racism.

Somewhere along the line, I'm sure such impulses had evolutionary value; they're just incompatible with global civilization. Judge your fellow humans not on how loudly they deny racism, but on how well they hide or overcome the instinct.

[Zynx]

2. Just because there is a latent feeling doesn't mean we have to accept it.

For example, when someone really annoys the crap out of me, part of me says, "Gosh, I wish the person would just die.". However, that is not healthy in society and thus it should be put down. The same goes for racist feelings. Just because your alligator brain may make you feel some way does not mean you have to accept it.

To simply let every grotesque aspect of human nature come to the surface would be frightening.

[Fountain79]

3. And what about the questions I post in the original text ?n/t

[Solon]

21. Actually, the answer would be not to deny that side of our nature...

but to recognize it and then overcome it. Its certainly possible, though difficult for some.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

23. Yup. I wouldn't refer to it as racism but more like

prejudice, ignorance, preconceived notions. I have felt anger and generalized whole groups of people because of a few bad experiences with individuals. I know it's wrong and try to make myself better in the process.

[Solon]

32. Its always best to grow with experience...

and not try to have any preconcieved notions about anyone, but I find myself doing so, and usually its isolated to one group, look at my post further down.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

35. You know what's crazy. Whenever I hear black Ricans talk about

US or African blacks as if they are a whole other species. The things that I hear from my own people would make anybody's head spin. So when I call people out on it. I'm told (usually the standard reply)I have some type of complex. You see I'm the one with the problem. :crazy:

[Solon]

38. LOL, I know, I get the same thing...

I don't really understand it, but other white people I'm around, outside of family, look at me as if I just sported 2 heads when I call them out on their racism. Hell, a couple of times I had to think about what they said, as I said in my other post, I didn't learn, and am still learning, some of these racist terms, and I'm 28! I remember one time in college, I was just talking with a guy at the library, and he started raving about "Chinks", and I was ready to ask who hit his car when I realized that he was talking about a group of people. It actually took about a few sentences into the raving for me to understand that "Chink" equalled Chinese, talk about being naive! I know, I'm an idiot, and I assumed it was a slur by his attitude, and at the time I just shook my head and left, I don't need to hear that crap.

[SmokingJacket]

4. I would say there's a difference between being prejudiced and racist.

I think racism implies hate, while prejudice implies preconceived notions about a group -- not a good thing, but not the same as hate.

There's also a difference between having thoughts and acting on them.

[Fountain79]

7. As defined by dictionary.com

Racism:

1.The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2.Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

[SmokingJacket]

16. Okay, so I'm not totally off-base.

Racism means thinking a certain race is better than another, or favoring one race over another.

But I do think having preconceived notions about others based on shallow indicators is pretty damn common to human beings, if not universal -- but if you're aware of them and do your best not to act on them, then you're not racist.

I don't think it's a good idea to lump all our fleeting thoughts and unacted-on prejudices with vicious racial hatred. There is, in my opinion, a huge difference between having a thought that you're aware of and try to stamp out and, say, joining the KKK.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

11. I agree with you. n/t

[kevinbgoode]

5. I don't tend to think like that. . .although of course I react differently

in different situations. Surprisingly, as time goes by, I tend to trust hetero white men LESS in most social situations, even though I grew up surrounded by them...while I am increasingly trusting of other groups socially. I'm not sure why, and it certainly isn't an ironclad generalization, because individuals break that mold constantly and I go with that flow easily. But I also generally don't look at a white guy, for example, and make too many assumptions - maybe I've just met too many different kinds of guys over the years and you just never know who an individual really is until you get to know them. So I don't know if that is racism. . .because difference isn't always because of the race, but more about the experience. And there are lots of other factors for me as well....a young rapper (white,black, hispanic, gay) is going to be harder for me to relate to than a 40 year old native American, for example. . .just because I'm more comfortable with the base of experience the older man has than I am with you young people rappin' words I can barely understand...hehehe.

I think the point isn't about denial of tendancies but to understand how stereotypes can establish or reinforce racist thinking - if you try to keep your mind free, those stereotypes are often easily shot down just by getting to know someone. I mean, is a rapper automatically some urban street thug just because they dress the way I might perceive one to be?

[Fountain79]

8. What is your ethnic background?

[kevinbgoode]

13. I'm a white half-German boy. . .

but then, the gay part of me kinda Heinz57s the hell out of the rigid German part. . .:-).

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

14. Good one! n/t

[Fountain79]

15. And hetero white males are your problem?

It seems that there are a number of ethnic groups that have a much harsher opinion of homosexuals than mainstream white society has. For example, while it has improved to a degree, there seems to be a general hostility against homosexuals in Mexico, particularly when it is seen as clashing with the idea of manhood in Mexico.

[kevinbgoode]

34. Well, I don't normally tell this kind of story. . .

but, while you are correct about the machismo thing, I had heard that it isn't all that uncommon for some Latin men to have had a male lover on the side. I was always surprised when I was told that, but several years ago, when I was living in Atlanta, I was...well, out at a huge nightclub one night (mostly gay, but some straights too...you know, big hot dance floor, second floor classy/trashy drag queens, big outdoor deck area...front bar with lots of bluish lights)..anyway, this man kept staring at beautiful me, and. . .well, when he approached, he could speak extremely little English, and my Spanish was...well, at the como esta usted stage...anyway, we somehow didn't communicate but spent the night together. The next morning, he asked me. . .well, in very broken English if I would like to meet his traveling companion (they were in town for a convention). But he really threw me off when he gave me the hotel room phone number and told me that he wanted me to move to Mexico (he was some minister in, I think, agriculture) and he would keep me in an apartment.

Well, naturally I didn't go. . .but the guy showed me a wallet pic of children and I believe he had a wife...so I guess I was supposed to be some white half-German kept tart in a studio apartment or something.

Of course, at the time, I was saving myself for Brad Pitt. . .I was in that stage where I thought if I couldn't understand what a man was saying, I wasn't being fed a line. . .

[Kingshakabobo]

40. Ooooh, that's h..... nevermind.

:evilgrin:

[kevinbgoode]

46. LOLOLOL

well, I told you I don't usually tell that kind of story. . .

but there must have been something good in that liquor that night.

[question everything]

6. Go see the movie "Crash" and you will see how right you are

That movie, taking place in LA, included also Asians. No one was a hero, no one was truly bad. Each had a bit of racism in him/her.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

10. That is an excellent example. Especially the young rookie cop. n/t

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

9. We all wage a daily battle against out own prejudices and

preconceived notions. It doesn't matter who you are or how many different people one associates with or even loves. It's just the way we are. What I think makes us different is that we acknowledge this and try to correct it. Unlike some of these republican types who think these things are not real or that it's OK to hate and divide.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. I will admit that I am racist

in that I am aware of people who look differently than me. I have consciously tried to overcome the racist remarks I heard other white people make while I was growing up, to see beyond the outer appearance of anyone and to look at their heart. Personally, I have found if I am with my brother and sisters on the Sufi path, it is easiest to do this. God willing, some day I will cleanse myself of all racist feelings.

[mandyky]

24. I think there is a difference between being not a racist

and being totally color blind.

[mandyky]

17. I am white but have always identified with

black people. I may not always be politically correct, and I have feelings and thoughts sometimes concerning race, but I am not racist or a bigot.

I have dated into 3 or more ethnic groups. My sister is married to a Jewish guy, and her daughter is dating a black guy. We have a mixed neighborhood, I'm not even sure what the mix is. All my friends are virtual and I have no idea what group they belong to.

Yes, there is such a thing as institutionalized racism, but we all have to chose about how to behave. This everyone is a racist thing sounds like a cop out, and I think most people feel most comfortable around what groups they were raised in. It takes effort sometimes to mix and mingle with other ethnic groups and cultures. When I think racist, I think of the KKK and white supremisists and militants from other groups who refuse to believe white people might actually be able to be their friends.

Here's my test - if I found a baby on the street abandoned, I would help that child, no matter what color the child was.

[Fountain79]

20. That's your test?

"Here's my test - if I found a baby on the street abandoned, I would help that child, no matter what color the child was."

That's just being a good human, that has nothing with the racism that I am talking about. That's the problem, we are either not racist or cross burning KKK members, which forces some to lie to themselves.

[mandyky]

22. I thought it was a good test

I know several people from back home who got disowned and considered dead to their parents for having biracial babies. How any grandparent could diss their kids and grandkids over skin color floors me, but it does happen.

[Fountain79]

28. That's someone being more racist....

than me. I have a good friend who went through the same thing and her family disowned her for a while for it. Still that doesn't change the fact that I have made assumptions and judgment based on race.

[mandyky]

30. People make assumptions and judgments based on lots of things

not just race. Obese folks. People with bad dental or other hygiene. Being homeless. Being on welfare.

Some people go with their feelings and even act on them, some try to understand, some try to help.

I appreciate your soul searching, but don't be too hard on yourself or others. If you are not calling people niggers, spics or towelheads, you probably aren't a racist. Now, if you are in a position of power and refuse to hire some ethnic groups, that might be one thing.

[TahitiNut]

18. "dated more than 3 different ethnic groups"? Including my own? Yep.

:shrug:

[yorkiemommie1]

19. i grew up in Hawaii

and yes, dated different ethnic groups, much to my mother's ( why can't you find a nice chinese boy?) dismay. my friends are all ethnicities. my neighbors are white, asian, hispanic, and black in that order.

i work in the school district's Adult ESL ( English as a Second Language ) department where our staff is very diverse. We have students from farflung places like Eritrea, Mongolia, and Nepal, as well as the more familiar ones from Mexico and the Far East.

No matter what our preconveived notions were about color or culture, one thing becomes very clear when dealing with so many different people. A nice person is a nice person and a jerk is a jerk...no matter what their ethnicity and that's how we deal with them.

[RufusEarl]

26. Just posting this question to this group

shows a sign of intelligence. IMHO, education and understanding ones humanity is the way to defeat racism.

[Fountain79]

29. I'm intelligent??

Take that mom! :rofl:

[BlueStorm]

27. Race is an illusion

I was watching PBS's "African American Lives" where 9 prominent African Americans traced their geneology. Then they had some DNA test done and find that they were a mixture of different "races." Some of which were suprising. For example, Mae Jemison thought she had Native American in her but only to find out that there was none and that she had Eastern Asian in her blood. Probably from the Chinese that came over to work on the railroad who mixed up with the blacks here.
The geneticist who helped develop the admixture test as well as some other test was a white man, he tested himself and was very surprised to find that he had 11% African ancestry. The dude's name is Mike Shriver and I forgot what university he was with but if you Google his name you can probably find it.

All in all it was very interesting.

Blu

[John Q. Citizen]

33. I agree with you; Race is an illusion. We are all African if we go

back far enough. Africa is where the Human Race came from originally.

Then people moved out in various migrations to end up in different places. I like to poke fun at people who buy into the illusion and I start talking about the "blond race" or the "annoying laugh" race.

There are certainly cultural differences between people who inhabit different areas. And many humans have been known to be quite territorial.

But there is only one race of humans, the human race.

[Solon]

31. I don't know if I'm racist, at least not really...

I don't, uhm, OK, let's see if I can give you some background, my ethnic background is like 70% or so Irish, I'm white, and look like it too. Anyways, I was born and grew up in a county that is, to this day, about 96% white. However, thoughout my childhood to today, the majority of my friends were non-white. Its not anything I sought out, but it just happened. During middle school, me and my two best friends were the terrors of the neighborhood, me the Irish guy, with my friend Marky, who was black, and my other friend Walter, he was Philipino. During this time, my first girlfriend was Native American. Unfortunately, my friends moved out of the neighborhood, and while in high school, my best friend was an Indian exchange student. Now for a little family background, I have never heard my parents, grandparents, or any other relatives ever use a racial slur. In fact, I didn't even know about the word "Nigger" until about Middle School or so, and that was in a history book. I know it sounds odd, but most of the racist terms I heard about were mostly from movies, and that usually was lampooning the hate behind the use of such terms. I know it probably sounds cheesy, but terms such as "wetback" and other terms were totally alien to me, I didn't even, and still don't, understand the attitudes around said terms.

As far as other things I can talk about, like dating, let's see, I've dated a women who was, her words, "Half-Puerto Rican", also I've dated white women, my most recent dating experience was with a woman who was one-quarter Japanese, the rest being African, with a smidgen of Irish. Of course, she's in Hawai'i now, for college, its going to be a LOOOONG year for me, it sucks. :(

As far as prejudices, let's see, I find myself not wanting friends of my own race, for the simple reason that I feel like, and always have BTW, an outsider. As I got older and understood, intellectually, racism, I didn't want to hang out with those who harbored those attitudes. It almost never fails that every time I hang out with a group of white people, they will bitch and complain about the "other" regardless of who that other is. To me, this is insulting, and a litmus test, of sorts, for friendship. I'll argue with them, and seeing I can't change their minds, I leave. I prefer company that doesn't have that type of attitude, and for that, mixed company is best.

[Xipe Totec]

36. Dark part of ourselves?

Don't know what you mean.

Racist? yes I am. I believe the human race is the greatest race there is.

But if by race you mean skin color, then I'm all for it; The more the merrier.

I believe there are different cultures, and I go out of my way to imbibe the richness and flavor of cultures other than mine, and I consider myself an ambassador for my own.

Dating? Well lets see... I've had the honor to escort women from the Asian, African, American, and European continents. I am married now, so I've settled for one and only one woman, who happens to be an American of mixed European background (Norwegian/English/German).

As for myself, I am culturally Mexican, ethnically Semitic, and philosophically an AMERICAN. My roots trace back to the Spanish who conquered Mexico, and to the Indian races who where conquered by them. And I love and respect them both.

Racist? You bet! Long live the human race!

[otohara]

37. Racism is Everywhere in the World

Luckily we don't have a lock on racism. In the Asia, the Japanese are very homogeneous society, in India there's the Caste System, Bosnians vs Serb, Muslim riots in France. People die everyday because of their race, have for all of time.

I'm half latin and when I was growing up my mother used to smack me if used Mexican slang and told me not to talk like a stupid Mexican. I have no idea if my mom ever really knew her background, she said Spanish, Latin American, maybe El Salvador. All I know - she wouldn't admit to being Mexican, but I sure learned how to cook Mexican food.

I married a man from Japan.... I knew I'd marry someone of a different culture.

[mdmc]

39. a kick for

broadway!

[bumblebee1]

41. I recall this story from a former boss of my husband

He was married to a Filipina. (She was a Filipino-Spanish mix.) He told us the story about visiting his family in Alabama when they were first married. He was taking a nap when his wife came upstairs to ask him what a nigger was. She told him that someone he knew referred to her as Ed's nigger wife. Ed jumped out of bed, went downstairs and punched the guy out. Then told him that he was a stupid mfer.

[Ciggies and coffee]

43. When the folks started talking about diversity some years back

I said to other workers, we are more alike than we are different and got a dozens nods of agreement.

Also, it seems like plenty of stuff which really based on class/wealth and where one lives is magically converted into some kind of racial divide, by the folks running the media, it seems
like the former are not to be discuussed. People are not born with ugly thoughts, maybe its mostly learned from family, reinforced by the way things are presented by the TV?

[Karenina]

44. In answer to your questions...

"Has our society gotten to the point where we just deny our racist tendencies?"

YES, DENIAL by a dominant group is a form of CONTROL.

"how many of you have dated more than 3 different ethnic groups?"

Errraaa... At this point in my life I abstain, but suffice to say my hormones were raging when disease and pregnancy were NOT issues.
Cute boys were cute boys.

"What color are most of your friends?"

Mine are "white" except my Aussie friend who saved my life, finally "got it" (after I beat his alpha male butt to a pulp, which he ALLOWED me to do) who I no longer relate to as "white." He ain't "white," he's a member of MY TRIBE.

"What color are most of the people in your neighborhood?"

Man-o-man, EVERY COLOR YOU CAN IMAGINE!!!

Ya know what's WEIRD? We've had an influx of folks from the DRC
The "normal" ritual with Ethopians, Eritrians, Morroccans, u.s.w.
is we simply nod to each other in passing. These new emigres do no such thing. (Completely understandable). THEY can spot from 20m. that I am not of the tribe and ignore my existence EVEN IF I SPEAK, unlike the old Germans here who ALWAYS smile in response to a cheerful "Guten Tag!"

Americans are SOOO in denial about racism and the attendant problems will NEVER be solved without a full reckoning.

[Cleita]

45. I have the same racial mixture as you.

But it was my father who was the blond, blue-eyed Germanic type and my mother the Latina (not Mexican, but does it matter?).

The fact is that I know I have a tendency to be racist about the white people who put me down, all the while they have assumed that I am one of them. I do try to understand. I want them to know how wrong they are.

However my previous experiences with this, even on DU have made me cry about how ingrained their racism is.

[Ayesha]

47. Racist or culture-ist?

I've found that I don't have a prejudice based on skin color per se, but do tend to judge based on a person's style of dress and behavior. For example, if I see an African American man in a business suit or a golf shirt and khakis, I don't feel any prejudice, but I'm not comfortable with that same man in baggy rapper jeans and a sideways baseball cap. I despise most rap music and feel that some of the unpronounceable names kids are given in the black community are horrible and hold those kids back for life. I don't see why having a certain color skin should require that one dress, speak, or behave in any particular way. But likewise, I don't think that being white, poor, and raised in a trailer park makes it OK to be hateful, homophobic, and have bad hygeine. And "Bubba Joe" is just as awful as "Jadayjalyn."

Not sure what that makes me...

[johnaries]

48. I'm white, and I attended a mainly black elementary school.

and you know what? I didn't even realize it until one of my realtives saw a class picture and pointed it out.

However, I do remember a little later when I went to a mostly white jr. high laughing at some jokes that I realized later were racist.

I believe that racism is learned. But, I think it is quite pervasive and all of us have been influenced by it in one way or another. I also think that many times it is a matter of culture and not race.

[crispini]

49. Stereotyping is not always being racist.

I haven't read the thread yet, so forgive me if this has been addressed, but I think that people DO tend to stereotype other people. I think this is kind of human nature. And as long as you are aware that you are making an assumption based on race, and are prepared that you might very well not be right, and don't let it turn INTO racism, then that is progress.

Dictionary definition of racism:
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

In other words -- at least this is just my take -- saying that some black people dance better than some white people is not racist. But saying that white people are better than black people becuse they're white is racist.

I'm not sure we can ever be colorblind, in other words. People are different from other people, and they are always going to notice those differences. What we can work towards is that people are intelligent and kind about it.

[philosophie_en_rose]

50. Racism has multiple meanings. Avenue Q is simplistic.

If racism is simply assumptions based on race, then most people are racist. However, merely having wrong ideas does not necessarily translate into actively racist policies. And, the mere fact that "everyone's a little bit" stupid does not mean that everyone supports the racist assumptions and policies that continue to affect people in minority groups.

If George Jefferson uses the word "honky," it does not mean that hundreds of years of oppression are suddenly brought to an equalibrium. If Dave Chappelle plays a Black white supremacist, it is not a sign that funding for schools is no longer handled in a manner that disproportionately affects minorities. If Jon Stewart and George Clooney get it on in a Brokeback Mountain parody or Will & Jack make fun of straight people, it does not have a damned thing to do with the fact that gay people cannot get married.

Racism is a disease that infects individuals. It's sometimes even funny. However, I think that there is a lot of confusion (especially among freeperish people) about the correlation between personal bias and active discrimination. Even if we are all racist in the Avenue Q sense, we are not all racist in a policy-making sense. While all of us should consider our personal beliefs, it is our interactions and the political processes that we support that matter most.

I like Avenue Q, but Avenue Q is just a fleck of snow on the racism iceberg.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

51. i have dated people from every race

my friends are of all colors

i freely admit to elitism but not racism

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

52. What's your point? Humans have a lot of natural tendencies that we as a

society have suppressed or gotten past.

I think humans do have a natural tendency towards racism, or the rejection of "others" or those who are different.

Does that mean it's right?

If a RWer tried to make the argument that "it's natural so it must be right", I'd also point out to them that I believe we (males in particular) have a natural tendency towards polygamy and promiscuity too.

[DemExpat]

53. Most of my bigotry and 'racism' stems from fears of oppression

.....I have real problems accepting Bush fans, conservative and extremist religious followers, and ideologues who do not show acceptance of other beliefs (mine) as valid.

And who want to do as they please in an often violent manner with taking resources, initiating wars, limiting freedoms..... with no consideration of effects on others.

I used to think I wasn't prejudiced....whatever you want it call it..... but now I know that I am.

DemEx

edit: Oh yes, I have dated men from several races/ethnic groups, my friends are mostly white but from several world religions, some are gay, and my neighborhood is mostly European Union diversity.