Why a New Madrid Earthquake Would be So Bad

[Zynx]

FEMA statement about this being a priority:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/northern_california/13955318.htm

Shaking map based on a Mag 6 comparing California and the Eastern US:



Not what a lot of people think of when they think "earthquake danger." Rather illuminating, isn't it?

That's from a 6.0, btw. A high 7 or any 8 would significantly increase and intensify the area of damage.

[ingac70]

1. The last big one supposedly made the Mississippi flow backwards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reelfoot_Lake

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. It also formed islands in the middle of the river

and the river is in a completely different location now due to the earthquake.

[northzax]

66. and rang church bells in Boston nt

[Radio_Lady]

85. Author Sam Penny has tackled this subject in two books!

You might want to visit his web site:

http://www.authorsden.com/sampenny

Memphis 7.9 and Broken River (both are listed at amazon.com)

Here's how he describes himself:



I am homeless (one of the semi-affluent variety) living fulltime in an RV and writing science/thriller/disaster fiction.

Prior to retirement I spent my working life in the San Francisco Bay Area, beginning at the UC Lawrence Radiation Laboratory in Berkeley. In 1970 three partners and I formed a startup software and electronics company, a novel idea back then. I am proud to say the company we began still remains. I have worked as a physicist, a computer software designer, an engineer, a computer scientist, a geophysicist, an entrepreneur, and a corporate executive. Over that time I authored a number of technical and trade articles. Today my passion is writing fiction focusing on disaster scenarios, what some people might consider old-style science fiction, something involving big science. A major earthquake along the New Madrid Fault was an easy choice, especially after observing the state of denial of many in the central United States.

Birth Place: Chickasha, OK

Editor's note: You'll like his work!

In peace,

Radio_Lady

[proud2BlibKansan]

88. Wow really?

I hadn't heard that. They say that if the midwest had been as populated as it is today, tens of thousands would have died.

[Radio_Lady]

89. Here's a better web site for Sam Penny. He's got a lot of pizazz to

put this site together!

http://the79scenario.com/

The US Geological Survey says that the chance for another giant earthquake on the New Madrid Fault in the next 50 years is 1 in 10.

What would it be like in today's world if that earthquake struck next week on the New Madrid Fault, 45 miles from Memphis, at the same epicenter and with the same magnitude as it did 193 years ago?

In The 7.9 Scenario novels, author Sam Penny weaves a series of exciting tales of how such an earthquake can happen and what it will be like in Memphis, along the Mississippi River, and throughout the crippled United States.

Two thriller novels now available, Memphis 7.9 and Broken River, tell of the fracturing of the New Madrid fault and the ensuing catastrophe in Memphis and on the Mississippi River. Another story about the recovery effort, working title The Phoenix of Memphis, is on the way.

And watch this website as Sam Penny serializes his upcoming non-fiction book, The 7.9 Scenario, Analysis and Writing, where he tells of his scenario analysis, its staggering results, and his experiences in publishing his findings.

Read the books of The 7.9 Scenario to learn what to expect, and how you and our country can prepare for the worst and most probable disaster to strike the United States in modern times.

[northzax]

93. yes, really

and it cracked several buildings in DC. a new New Madrid would not be pleasant.

[benburch]

2. In a 7-8 event.

I expect skyscrapers to collapse in major cities in the region.

They are not designed to withstand this, and as soon as one floor fails, the gravitational potential energy of the upper floors takes over and you have a free-fall collapse.

[NoPasaran]

3. And within 15 minutes of the first collapse

We'll see a thread in GD blaming it on controlled demolition.
:tinfoilhat:

[Harald Ragnarsson]

4. Yeah, because it would be just like that, wouldn't it?

What a shitty thing to post and say. After this admin using 911 to launch 3 wars and enslave the American People, how dare we question their story? Right? In my opinion, the Loons and Nutcases are the ones still insisting the emperor is telling the truth when any 5 year old could see through all the lies and know that the admin and gov is not telling the truth about 911.

But yeah, if the buildings withstood a 7.0 earthquake, small fires popped out at floor 80 and an hour later the building crumbled into dust, then YEAH, I'd think CD might be invvolved. If it crumbles during the earthquake, then I won't think twice about it. Either way, if Condi, Phillip, Dick and George say the earthquake attacked us because it hates our freedom, I won't believe that bullshit either.

[truth2power]

9. Right to the point, Ragnarrson. I couldn't have said it better.

I'm so sick of people calling us the loony ones. You're right. The loons are the ones still insisting the emperor is telling the truth, and that OBL concocted the whole scheme from a cave in Afghanistan. That IMO is the most ludicrous conspiracy theory of all. More holes in the 911 story than, well....one of Dick's hunting buddies.

BTW, Welcome to DU. :hi:

[Mnemosyne]

19. Thank you Harald! And you are very welcome to DU!

:hi: :toast::yourock:

[SammyWinstonJack]

33. It was a shitty thing to post but I see you took care of it, nicely done.

:applause: :yourock: :applause:

[benburch]

And saying that it wasn't REALLY an Earthquake...

That it was a Secret Government project related to HARP, and funded by the Bilderbergers and the Bavarian Illuminati!

Ewige Blumenkraft!

[truth2power]

10. See, that's the thing...

Why posit an extreme, that can easily be knocked down, along with any discussion of the subject?

If an earthquake occurred along the New Madrid fault, my first thought wouldn't be that the Bush Cabal did it, although, for sure, they would f**k up the response. On the other hand, six years ago I would have thought someone was crazy for predicting almost anything that has since happened in this Brave New Bushworld. Given that, I always keep my options open these days, in terms of alternative theories that can be demonstrated to have sone validity. :shrug:

[benburch]

12. Exactly.

The CD MIHOP argument (along with the one about drone planes) was sewn here, I believe, to discredit the more reasonable, and supportable by facts in evidence, LIHOP/LIHTDI arguments. There are GOP disinformation specialists at work trying to discredit us, and many have drunk their Koolaide, thinking all the while they are helping our cause.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[benburch]

26. When I see people being damned fools...

I tell them so.

Others may be more polite, but I'm a rude bastard.

The ONLY reason we have not been able to hang Bush for LIHOP/LIHTDI is because we have been diverted from doing so by the disinformation campaign that has people believing that those buildings were packed to the rafters with bombs labeled "Property of the Bavarian Illuminati - If found, drop in any mailbox. Postage guaranteed."

[truth2power]

81. Hey Ben...

This thread got messed up somehow. The thread tree doesn't match the "replied to". Anyway, I meant to reply to your post.

Just to clarify, I'm one of those MIHOP folks. Also, I think it was probably a drone/missile that hit the Pentagon. At any rate, I don't think a commercial aircraft impacted there. I've come to this conclusion after much study and reflection. YMMV, of course.

Oh, and I'm not a disinformation specialist.

[benburch]

87. How do you explain 100+ eyewitnesses?

Who saw a commercial transport that day at the Pentagon?

All Liars?

All Initiates of The Bavarian Illuminati?

[northzax]

92. and the footage from the parking lot?

why bother faking it?

and where, exactly, IS that plane? where do you hide a 757? boy howdy, I wish someone would answer those questions for me?

[benburch]

94. Smashed into teeny-tiny bits, much of which burned.

Just how solid do people think an aircraft IS?

They are the minimum amount of aluminum, plastic and composite that can contain the payload and fuel with a reasonable assurance that it won't fall apart in use.

Sometimes, however, they do fall apart in use;







And fire can easily destroy the materials they are made of;





Sometimes after a crash there is nothing big enough to recognize;

[benburch]

97. Re-reading, I see you meant the 757 that supposedly DIDN'T hit the 5-gon.

Yeah, they need to explain where that one was disappeared to, and what happened to the people onboard, don't they?

[truth2power]

108. Well...

1. I've seen the reports of a number of eyewitnesses, although not 100+. Not doubting your numbers, here, but what I have seen seems to vary enough to allow for questions about what actually impacted the Pentagon.

2. People tend to see what they expect to see. That's not the whole story, but it is an important factor in eyewitness reports. For example, it's been shown that in accidents involving a motorcycle and an auto, the driver of the car often didn't see the motorcycle that was right in front of them. It seems that we expect to see a car and our brains just filter out the bike. Likewise with the aircraft.

3. I wouldn't be surprised if a small number of "eyewitnesses" were operatives of some sort. Helping to skew the observations in favor of the official story.

And finally...if our so-called government wasn't so goddamned secretive about everything, we wouldn't have to rely on constructing theories about what really happened. You know...confiscating surveillance tapes, tearing up ATC recordings and throwing the pieces in separate containers, and yeah, that line of people combing the Pentagon lawn for every piece of debris. What was that about? Makes you wonder what they have to hide.


No, I don't think the Bavarian Illuminati was involved in this one. :)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. Doubt that

I've lived in the effected area, and have lived through a couple of the small quakes there. I guarantee that the devistation that will be caused won't be anything to laugh about.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NoPasaran]

30. I'm not superior, just a guy with a sense of humor

It's a joke, get over it!

[Mnemosyne]

31. Okay, I'm over it! But not over what they did. n/t

[babylonsister]

83. I got it, NoPasaran. You forgot your sarcasm smilie!

:hi:

[blm]

13. When State Farm came to our house after Northridge quake, the agent said

she was from Illinois and that the agents had been attending workshops preparing for the expected earthquake disaster in the Midwest, so they were prepared when Northridge happened.

And that was in 94. I will bet anything that all insurance companies adjusted their liabilities after Northridge. But, then, only a low % of people buy earthquake insurance in the Midwest, thinking it's less likely to happen to them.

BTW, the quake in my neighborhood was a 7.8. VERY VIOLENT.

[benburch]

27. Just try to buy earthquake insurance here now.

It is VERY expensive.

[megatherium]

106. Last I checked, my quake coverage was $90/yr.

I live in southern Indiana, which would appear to be in the danger zone.

[AllegroRondo]

107. My quake coverage is $80 / year, St Louis area

but I also found out that they will not cover a brick home, and many of the older homes in St Louis city are brick.

[AwakeAtLast]

39. Skyscrapers?

Maybe in St. Louis or Indianapolis, which are on the outskirts of the area.
There are no skyscrapers in the major area that I know of. Lots of cattle,
grain and coal though. Of course it would depend on where the earthquake
began, but around the actual fault there isn't that much to damage. The
major problems would be gas, water and sewer lines. They have started
building to a stonger earthquake code, though, because I have been hearing about
the New Madrid fault since the early '80s (grew up right smack dab in the middle
of the "red zone")

:hi:

[SPKrazy]

43. Memphis Isn't A Small Town

They don't have a gigantic skyline, but I imagine it would have significant damage.

[benburch]

49. Did you look at the map?

St. Louis is not in the outskirts, nor is Louisville. And that is a shake map for a Magnitude six. In an 8, the damage would extend to Chicago.

[politicat]

50. St. Louis is not on the outskirts. It's in the center.

Also affected will be Indianapolis, Des Moines, Memphis and Louisville... All of which have buildings of 20 stories or more.

The St. Louis area is likely to be near or on the epicenter; it's been the epicenter for most of the little ones that have been recorded. Please see the image below:



If you grew up in the area, I'm kind of disturbed about your grasp of geography.

And as a survivor of the Northridge quake of 1994, I can strongly assure you that damage does happen at the eipcenter - my university was seriously damaged and the town I lived in was in very bad shape... 4 miles from what would be eventually designated as the epicenter. LA and the Valley took next to no damage compared to Northridge, Thousand Oaks, Ventura, Oxnard and the other surrounding communities.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

80. You need to get a new map.

[proud2BlibKansan]

91. A strong enough quake will shake Denver

Memphis will be gone. St. Louis and Chicago will be devastated. Skyscrapers in KC will fall. That's what the 'experts' are saying.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Liklihood that when it comes, it'll be bigger than 6

In 1968, a quake in Southern Illinois damaged buildings so badly they had to be demolished. Another factor not considered is that Southern Illinois is riddled with deep mine shafts. The companies that owned the mines have long gone out of business, and some of the shafts have collapsed; at one point, a section of state highway 13 was destroyed and had to be rebuilt. Certain towns in the region are so badly undermined that if an earthquake occurred, it is likely that many of the shafts would collapse, destroying whole towns. There are also oil/gas fields in southeastern Illinois that would be damaged, and the possibility of fire is very real.

If you look at the red part of the map, you'll see that St. Louis, Memphis, Cincinatti, Louisville, Lexington,Evansville and possibly Nashville would all be in the most effected area, but there are plenty of medium and small towns that would also bear the brunt of this catastrophe.

Illinois has been making plans for what to do since the 1980s, I think, but I don't know that the plans were coordinated with any other state.

[Solon]

16. One thing I'm afraid of in my area...

Look at this map of my area before and during the Flood of 1993:

To get some perspective, the River that goes from West to East is the Missouri river, the one that is northwest to southeast is the Mississippi. I live in the country that is between those two rivers, in fact, the second picture, that shows the flood clearly, the water was a little more than one city block north of me, I live near the top of a hill, thank goodness. However, I worry about this area, its was heavily damaged by erosion, and I don't think the hill I'm on would be able to stand a major Earthquake, and landslide and ground liquification are scary prospects around here.

[EstimatedProphet]

20. I remember that earthquake. I went through it

Scared the hell out of all of us.

People that don't think the New Madrid fault is serious don't understand it. The San Andres fault is a line where 2 plates come together. The New Madrid fault is a failed rift-it's a spot where there is one plate getting ready to fracture and turn into two. If it ruptures-and eventually it will- the Mississippi wil be an ocean, not a river.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. They say a 7 or 8 earthquake at New Madrid

would be felt as far away as Denver.

[Radio_Lady]

109. OT: Estimated Prophet, how is the Prophetess doing? Surgery soon?

I haven't been on the DU for a couple of days, it's been so busy here!

In peace,

Radio_Lady

[spanone]

6. Don't worry, FEMA will take care of us.

:sarcasm:

[fed-up]

7. shake map of 1906 quake

Maybe someone can post the actual map, here is a link

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2005/1135/

Intensity Maps

Interpolated MMI intensity maps for the M = 7.8 San Francisco earthquake that can be compared with Stover and Coffman's (1993) contoured MMI intensity map and with the interpolated intensity map for the M = 6.9 Loma Prieta earthquake.

1906 MMI Scale

The 1906 earthquake was so large that the shaking effects do not fit Richter's (1958) Modified Mercalli Intensity scale. We enumerate the characteristic effects observed in the 1906 earthquake and discuss how the MMI intensity scale was revised for this earthquake.

[kineneb]

75. 06 quake felt far away

it affected the hot springs in Lake Co, and knocked down the bell tower of the schoolhouse in Lower Lake. Lake Co. is 2.5 hours drive north of SF. Journals of locals mention being thrown out of bed by the quake.

[fed-up]

11. shake map of 1872 Owen's Valley Quake-John Muir's observations

http://www.seismo-watch.com/EQSERVICES/NotableEQ/Mar/0326.1872.isoseismal.html



John Muir's observations:
http://www.seismo.unr.edu/htdocs/stories.html

IN YOSEMITE VALLEY, one morning about two o'clock, I was aroused by an earthquake; and though I had never before enjoyed a storm of this sort, the strange, wild thrilling motion and rumbling could not be mistaken, and I ran out of my cabin, near the Sentinel Rock, both glad and frightened, shouting, "A noble earthquake!" feeling sure I was going to learn something. The shocks were so violent and varied, and succeeded one another so closely, one had to balance in walking as if on the deck of a ship among the waves, and it seemed impossible the high cliffs should escape being shattered. In particular, I feared that the sheer-fronted Sentinel Rock, which rises to a height of three thousand feet, would be shaken down, and I took shelter back of a big Pine, hoping I might be protected from outbounding boulders, should any come so far. I was now convinced that an earthquake had been the maker of the taluses and positive proof soon came. It was a calm moonlight night, and no sound was heard for the first minute or two save a low muffled underground rumbling and a slight rustling of the agitated trees, as if, in wrestling with the mountains, Nature were holding her breath. Then, suddenly, out of the strange silence and strange motion there came a tremendous roar. The Eagle Rock, a short distance up the valley, had given way, and I saw it falling in thousands of the great boulders I had been studying so long, pouring to the valley floor in a free curve luminous from friction, making a terribly sublime and beautiful spectacle -an arc of fire fifteen hundred feet span, as true in form and as steady as a rainbow, in the midst of the stupendous roaring rock-storm The sound was inconceivably deep and broad and earnest, as if the whole earth, like a living creature, had at last found a voice and were calling to her sister planets. It seemed to me that if all the thunder I ever heard were condensed into one roar it would not equal this rock roar at the birth of a mountain talus. Think, then, of the roar that arose to heaven when all the thousands of ancient canon taluses throughout the length and breadth of the range were simultaneously given birth.

The main storm was soon over, and, eager to see the newborn talus, I ran up the valley in the moonlight and climbed it before the huge blocks, after their wild fiery flight, had come to complete rest They were slowly settling into their places, chafing, grating against one another, groaning, and whispering; but no motion was visible except in a stream of small fragments pattering down the face of the cliff at the head of the talus. A cloud of dust particles, the smallest of the boulders, floated out across the whole breadth of the valley and formed a ceiling that lasted until after sunrise, and the air was loaded with the odor of crushed Douglas Spruces, from a grove that had been mowed down and mashed like weeds.

Sauntering about to see what other changes had been made, I found the Indians in the middle of the valley, terribly frightened, of course, fearing the angry spirits of the rocks were trying to kill them. The few whites wintering in the valley were assembled in front of the old Hutchings hotel comparing notes and meditating flight to steadier ground, seemingly as sorely frightened as the Indians. It is always interesting to see people in dead earnest, from whatever cause, and earthquakes make everybody earnest. Shortly after sunrise, a low blunt muffled rumbling, like distant thunder, was followed by another series of shocks, which, though not nearly so severe as the first, made the cliffs and domes tremble like jelly, and the big Pines and Oaks thrill and swish and wave their branches with startling effect. Then the groups of talkers were suddenly hushed, and the solemnity on their faces was sublime. One in particular of these winter neighbors, a rather thoughtful speculative man, with whom I had often conversed, was a firm believer in the cataclysmic origin of the valley; and I now jokingly remarked that his wild tumble-down-and-engulfment hypothesis might soon be proved, since these underground rumblings and shakings might be the forerunners of another Yosemite making cataclysm, which would perhaps double the depth of the valley by swallowing the floor, leaving the ends of the wagon roads and trails three or four thousand feet in the air. Just then came the second series of shocks, and it was fine to see how awfully silent and solemn he became. His belief in the existence of a mysterious abyss, into which the suspended floor of the valley and all the domes and battlements of the wars might at any moment go roaring down, mightily troubled him. To cheer and tease him into another view of the case, I said: "Come, cheer up; smile a little and clap your hands, now that kind Mother Earth is trotting us on her knee to amuse us and make us good." But the well-meant joke seemed irreverent and utterly failed, as if only prayerful terror could rightly belong to the wild beauty-making business. Even after all the heavier shocks were over, I could do nothing to reassure him. On the contrary, he handed me the keys of his little store, and, with a companion of like mind, fled to the lowlands. In about a month he returned; but a sharp shock occurred that very day, which sent him flying again.

The rocks trembled more or less every day for over two months, and I kept a bucket of water on my table to learn what I could of the movements. The blunt thunder-tones in the depths of the mountains were usually followed by sudden jarring, horizontal thrusts from the northward, often succeeded by twisting, upjolting movements. Judging by its effects, this Yosemite, or Inyo earthquake, as it is sometimes called, was gentle as compared with the one that gave rise to the grand talus system of the range and did so much for the canyon scenery. Nature, usually so deliberate in her operations, then created, as we have seen, a new set of features, simply by giving the mountains a shake - changing not only the high peaks and cliffs, but the streams. As soon as these rock avalanches fell every stream began to sing new songs; for in many places thousands of boulders were hurled into their channels, roughening and half damming them, compelling the waters to surge and roar in rapids where before they were gliding smoothly. Some of the streams were completely dammed, driftwood, leaves, etc., filling the interstices between the boulders, thus giving rise to lakes and level reaches; and these, again, after being gradually filled in, to smooth meadows, through which the streams now silently meander; while at the same time some of the taluses took the places of old meadows and groves. Thus rough places were made smooth, and smooth places rough. But on the whole, by what at first sight seemed pure confusion and ruin, the landscapes were enriched; for gradually every talus, however big the boulders composing it, was covered with groves and gardens, and made a finely proportioned and ornamental base for the sheer cliffs. In this beauty work, every boulder is prepared and measured and put in its place more thoughtfully than are the stones of temples. If for a moment you are inclined to regard these taluses as mere draggled, chaotic dumps, climb to the top of one of them, tie your mountain shoes firmly over the instep, and with braced nerves run down without any haggling, puttering hesitation, boldly jumping from boulder to boulder with even speed. You will then find your feet playing a tune, and quickly discover the music and poetry of rock-piles -a fine lesson; and all Nature's wildness tells the same story. Storms of every sort, torrents, earthquakes, cataclysms, ``convulsions of nature,'' etc., however mysterious and lawless at first sight they may seem, are only harmonious notes in the song of creation, varied expressions of God's love.

and
http://www.seismo-watch.com/EQSERVICES/NotableEQ/Mar/0326.1872.OwensValley.html
Owens Valley M7.6 - M8.0 Earthquake, March 26, 1872
Previous Notable Earthquake Reports
According to John Muir, who was in a cabin in Yosemite Valley on March 26, 1872, it was a clear moon lit morning when the strong shaking began. Muir wrote the earthquake struck at about 2:30 a.m. and it was later estimated to have measured about M7.6 - M8.0. Muir ran from his cabin and had trouble standing as the Earth was violently thrown from side to side, and up and down.

Although from his isolated little hamlet of Yosemite Valley he could not have realized that the earthquake was actually centered along the eastern front of the Sierra Nevada in Owens Valley, some 110 miles away.

Reports from the epicentral area were not as inspiring as Muir's. Shaking from the event was intense, registering X-XI on the Modified Mercalli scale (a relative shaking intensity rating from 1-12 and shown in Roman numerals). The severe ground motion devastated the town of Lone Pine, where of a population of 300 people, 27 were killed, and 52 of 59 structures were destroyed.

The temblor knocked items from shelves, stopped clocks and awoke people from as far away as San Diego, Red Bluff and Elko, Nevada (Modified Mercalli Intensity (Isoseismal) Map ). Landslides and rock falls were common throughout the mountainous regions, and in some cases formed cascades that mowed down trees like they were twigs. Water spouts were formed around Owens Lake and liquefaction failures produced enormous settlements and cracks around the perimeter of the once pristine eastern Sierra lake. Dust filled the sky and clouds were still forming with each strong aftershock, and there were several.

[lovuian]

15. St. Louis has a real logistic problem ... it has the two rivers

Mississippi and Missouri on each side and north of it... these bridges are old and if an earthquake came not sure if they could withstand a 7 or a 8...that would make getting to St.Louis with trucks or equipment virtually impossible...the only way out would be south and west and thats going into more damaged areas... by air would be the only way...

It would be pretty devastating...

[Solon]

17. Actually, they just renovated the Blanchette bridge, For I-70...

This past year(I know, the traffic was horrendious), I think they reinforced it as well as redid the roadway. Also, the primary Railroad bridge(forget the name) was replaced, and the Alton Bridge is also less than 10 years old.

I don't know about the I-64/40(Foarty to us locals :)) and I-70 bridge in St. Louis are fairing, they are old, I don't know if any reinforcement at all.

[lovuian]

60. Lets hope those bridges were built to withstand Quake of 7-8

If it was the same engineers that did the levees on New Orleans

I'd still worry a bit...

[Solon]

63. Actually, the only one I would have confidence in is the Alton bridge...

its called the Clark Bridge, and is of an odd design, but supposedly much more resilient than more traditional bridges, crosses the Mississippi and connects Illinois with St. Charles County Missouri.

Here's a picture:




My other worry aren't just the bridges crossing the rivers, thanks to our geography, we have plenty of bridges for highway junctions, the one that comes to mind would be the I-70/I-270 junction and the ones in downtown St. Louis linking I-70 with 40 before they cross the Mississippi.

ON EDIT: I researched it a little bit, this bridge is designed to withstand an earthquake, I don't know how intense though, but the pilings that support the bridge were driven 140 below the bedrock.

[lovuian]

82. Thats good news but I know some of the other bridges aren't

as up to date... and the roads will be interesting to see if they withstand it too...

But you get my point we have bridges in the North to get across the Mississippi South East and west...

I can't imagine the Mississippi flowing backward that must have been truly amazing...

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Have you ever been to New Madrid?

There is a museum there with all kinds of cool books and pictures of that last earthquake. And the view of the Mississippi from there is spectacular.

If we have an earthquake there today, it would be more disastrous than Katrina.

[HeeBGBz]

23. Yeah, and it felt creepy

I just stood there for a minute and took a pic with the New Madrid sign, but didn't get to go to the museum.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. It's neat you ought to check it out

[FearofFutility]

28. I can't take anymore!

Bird flu, nuclear annihilation, WW III, now devastating earthquake where I live. :yoiks: Somebody wake me up when it's over.

[benburch]

29. There is a cure for this disease, but most think its actually worse...

http://www.interdope.com.nyud.net:8090/SYRINGE.JPG

[FearofFutility]

32. What's the cure?

All I'm seeing is a red x.:shrug:

[alfredo]

36. You mean you don't know the power of the

red x?


X

[FearofFutility]

40. I didn't realize it was THE red x.........

[alfredo]

57. It is not wise to ignore the red X

That "agony of defeat" guy ignored the power of the red X and look what happened to him.

[FearofFutility]

100. Now you've done it......

:scared:

[benburch]

38. It was a picture of a heroin syringe... nt

[FearofFutility]

41. I'll pass on that and stick to my preferred poison

:beer:

[Renew Deal]

42. Don't forget the Super Volcano at Yellowstone

That would make the other three look like a party. :nuke:

[FearofFutility]

44. O.K. That does it!

:argh:

[sandnsea]

34. What a huge DIVERSION

Let's pretend we're learning something from Katrina and are going to get prepared for the REALLY BIG AND SCARY DISASTER. Never mind that we have hurricane SEASON, not earthquake season and certainly not the friggin' MADRID EARTHQUAKE SEASON. This is just bullshit. We STILL need to be focused on the Gulf, Katrina, and hurricane and flood preparedness for New Orleans.

This is just a big diversion to turn peoples' attention away from the Gulf and the people we have abandoned with Katrina.

Aargh.

[VADem11]

35. Not really

FEMA does actually need to prepare if this happens or else much of the midwest is screwed. This WILL happen someday. We still need to be focused on Katrina and the Gulf but to just dismiss this as propaganda is wrong.

[sandnsea]

45. Yeah, just a coinky-dink

FEMA is worried about the New Madrid Fault NOW, of all times.

Just like I've always known New Orleans was below sea level and at the mercy of a direct hit hurricane, I've also always known about the New Madrid earthquake.

You seriously believe FEMA just found out about this yesterday?

[VADem11]

48. No

I don't believe FEMA just found about this yesterday. But when do you want FEMA to do something? It's some good publicity but if they really wanted to do something that would make everyone forget about their wretched handling of Katrina, they would probably be doing something else instead of focusing on an obscure earthquake fault.

[sandnsea]

55. No, they'd focus on an obscure earthquake fault

Because governing and helping people is the absolute LAST thing a Republican administration wants to have to do.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

46. Not quite a diversion

since they've been having earthquake preparedness meetings about New Madrid since the '80s. I think the '68 earthquake and then the milder one in '72 caught the attention of TPTB and, as I've said before, at least the state of Illinois has been working on this since at least 1980.

[Scout1071]

47. Yea, we should never think ahead and be prepared when

scientists warn us that something catastrophic will happen.

[sandnsea]

54. This has been known for YEARS

Yes, there may be an earthquake. I live in a tsunami zone, there's a chance we'll have another giant tsunami too. I don't expect the entire country to go into a panic over what we need to prepare. Especially as opposed to the people who live in areas that are hit every single year, that we know are definitely going to be hit, and that need the attention immediately. It's like preparing for a meteor to hit instead of a rainstorm. The only reason FEMA is focusing on it now is to divert attention away from Katrina, after all, lots of places are prone to natural disasters, what's so special about the Gulf. :sarcasm:

[belpejic]

95. Talk to anyone who lives near the San Andreas fault...

Ya just gotta take your own risks. There's a fairly impressive fault line under 125th St. in New York City's Manhattan borough. Imagine if that started rattling...

[SPKrazy]

51. Actually, New Madrid Is Due For A Major Temblor

And has been for years. This is not new information. I don't know why it is being brought up again. It comes up every year though.

I know the area I live in in Arkansas is largely built on sand. The shake of a large N.M. quake is predicted to turn the ground into the shifting sand that it is under the topsoil and do a lot of damage.

Every time there is a temblor of 4.0 mag or greater, it always gets the talking started.

[sandnsea]

58. As with many other regions

including my own. So why is FEMA, of all agencies, making it a tadoo NOW. Turn peoples' attention away from the Gulf, especially people who are close enough to the Gulf to see the suffering more than the rest of the country. The same people who just happen to be likely to be affected by a New Madrid earthquake.

[SPKrazy]

70. I'm Sorry, I Disagree

New Madrid is HUGH!!1111

Seriously, the map shows a 6 pointer, the big one was more around a 9.0 (made the Mississippi run backwards, dropped land 15 or more feet along the fault, and rang bells in the Northeast.

New Madrid is in an area where cities aren't built to withstand earthquakes.

I don't know where you live, but most earthquake prone areas have earthquake code buildings.

Memphis, St. Louis, Lexington, Cincinnatti, and other cities in the destruction area don't have those codes.

It is a big deal

Why is FEMA talking about it? Read the article, they were asked to testify before a congressional committee.

There was no press conference announcing this.

sometimes we have to loosen our tinfoil hats a little!;)

[sandnsea]

72. My family lives in Little Rock & St. Louis

I'm well aware of the impact of this earthquake. I'm also aware that FEMA was testifying to Congress about natural disaster readiness, and would SAY ANYTHING to avoid talking about the last hurricane season or upcoming hurricane seasons. This is CYA, pretend you're doing something. The only thing I can think of that is LESS likely to happen is a tsunami where I live. Or did they mention that too? But yes, we are prepared for the tsunami, we even have a local siren system, in a town of 10,000. There has been similar attention paid to earthquake preparedness in the midwest too, gradually and intelligently, like it should be done. The real challenge is STILL hurricane seasons and blizzard seasons and heat waves that face us every single year.

[SPKrazy]

76. Yes, Hurricane Season will be upon us soon, predicted to be worse

But if you don't think the NM fault is a real threat, you just aren't paying attention.

I wasn't at the hearing, I didn't see it.

You could be right that they are trying to divert.

That doesn't take away from the REALITY that the NM fault is a very real threat to many major cities. Little Rock is less likely to be greatly affected than Memphis. And all cities in the red area are in danger from a 6 point, which is not unrealistic to expect at all.

The fact that a 9 pointer hit about 100 years ago, and there is evidence that this fault doesn't move in small amounts much, but really goes in big moves, then there is the real possibility of at least a 7 or 8'er.

A 9 would be so devastating that I can't imagine what would happen.

[atommom]

53. Not a diversion, an attempt to actually do their job by thinking ahead.

:eyes:

[Zynx]

56. Indeed. Part of the reason Katrina was such a mess is that we didn't

think it through ahead of time how we would deal with it. A New Madrid earthquake would be so devastating we have to have some kind of plan ready to go.

[sandnsea]

59. Never mind that Katrina now

Let's get ready for New Madrid! The devasatation will be ten times that of Katrina. Yeah, that's the ticket!

Never mind we will likely have at least 5 more Katrinas this year alone.

[atommom]

61. No one is saying we shouldn't take care of the devastation

Katrina caused, or take care of its victims, or think ahead to the next hurricane season. But we have to multi-task. There are a lot of potential disasters out there that we can't afford to ignore. Otherwise, we might well end up with another fiasco.

[sandnsea]

62. FEMA is

They have all these other disasters to consider, doncha' know, can't give everything to those, uhm, people, in New Orleans.

Just wait. America is trying to find a reason to let themselves off the hook, looks like this New Madrid thingy is a winner.

[Zynx]

64. We can think about more than one eventuality at a time.

I know apparently Chertoff doesn't think we can, but it is stupid to say that we should only think about one type of disaster at a time.

[sandnsea]

68. See #62

Just wait. We've got to spend money for all these other looming disasters too, I bet they even have the guts to call Katrina survivors selfish by summertime. I'd think people would know how this administration operates by now.

[Zynx]

79. Just because the Bush Administration is full of boneheads doesn't

mean that we shouldn't put some serious thought into how we would deal with a New Madrid earthquake.

[atommom]

102. That's it in a nutshell.

:applause:

[bobbieinok]

74. remember???? bushco defunded groups that had worked on

NOLA hurricane and levee problems FOR A LONG TIME

[Zynx]

78. That's part of what I was saying.

I didn't say it well. Basically everyone knew it would happen some day, but we managed to get caught flat-footed because we didn't have the resources in place to implement the actions that were necessary to save lives. That was the Bush administration's fault. I don't want to see the same thing happen in my beloved Midwest on a much more tragic scale.

[salin]

71. Perhaps

but in this region there is really very little awareness of the reality of the fault line, let alone *any* preparedness. Having grown up in the region (and not extremely close to - but in the danger range of the fault) I was thrown to the ground during a tremor ... kind of a "kick" as a little kid - but that had to be around 1970 - and except for a scare around 1990 - there has been no awareness in the region of what to even do during an earthquake. I lived very close to the San Andreas fault in the 90s (shortly after the big quake that collapsed the 101 and Bay Bridge in SF) - a whole lot more awareness among citizens, local and state govts. Back in my home range - we are very, very unprepared at all levels. If this "scare item" also brings some real awareness of what to do to reduce risks - then it is all for the good.

While I agree with you per the whole scare thing, I don't think it is a zero sum game - that we can't get folks attention on hurricane season and the catastrophic effects that are still impacting tens of thousands (or more) of our citizens per Katrina and Rita and those in danger during this next hurricane season *and* make a region that has been in great slumber and denial about the reality of a potential danger - and getting awareness of what to do in such circumstances. In this area we know what to do about flooding (near the Ohio and Mississippi), and more broadly we know what to do in tornadoes - but we are totally clueless per earthquakes - and if you look at the map - the thing about the New Madrid fault line - is that the impact area in the case of a serious quake - is exceptionally wide, and most of us living in this region (which includes many large cities and wide swaths of rural areas including a large amount of agricultural areas) - are completely ignorant of what to do if/when such a quake might hit.

[atommom]

73. Very good points. I don't think it's a zero sum game either.

[kevinbgoode]

37. HEY! I live right in southern Illinois!

on the first floor of a two-story building with an entrance. Actually, strangely enough, I've been slowly and occasionally gathering things to put in an emergency kit - including a tent and blankets, small flashlights/batteries, battery radios/TV. . .but they hit so fast that I always worry I wouldn't have time to gather stuff up to run out of the place. And if it is damaged, you have to live outside and need food and water and stuff. And what about my puter?

[B Calm]

52. Edgar Cayce predicts the Great Lakes will drain into the Gulf

of Mexico..

[A Simple Game]

65. There goes my neighborhood. And I predict that

The west coast will fall into the ocean;
The east coast will be hit by a giant tsunami;
A super volcano will erupt;
A meteor will strike the earth;
A new ice age will begin;
Global warming will accelerate*.

Each and every one coming soon to a cable channel near you.

*I am sure I missed some.

[mtnester]

67. Sheesh, if that happens, I qill be drowned...thank GOD I have

earthquake insurance - and have had it for years...right in the red part of the OP's map too.

[cmd]

101. You better get flood insurance, too.

Of course, if we Buckeyes are all drowned, insurance won't matter all that much.

[mtnester]

105. I gotta tell you, we have that too

BECAUSE - insurance companies do not consider a basement full of water (unless it is from sewer backup) to be coverable under anything. And even though we live on a very very hight point, the way our yard slopes dramatically, you would think everything would run away from us. It does, but FAST and QUICK even under the ground around the foundation. We have it IN CASE such a dramatic rain would erode away our foundation..i.e. FLOOD DAMAGE.

Our agent is a GOOD guy...independant and not out to gouge us..only to protect us.

[sandnsea]

69. Really would be stupid to rebuild New Orleans then

If the New Madrid is just going to wipe it out anyway.

[Zynx]

96. That's actually impossible. Continental divide doesn't allow it.

Mississippi River and Great Lakes are two totally different drainage basins. They have zero natural connection.

[B Calm]

99. Have you ever heard of the Illinois or Wabash Rivers?

[Blue_In_AK]

77. Earthquakes are pretty scary...

I've lived through a bunch of them since I've been in Alaska, but fortunately none like the one of '64 which hit Anchorage hard.

This picture was taken about a mile from where I now live:



This is downtown





There was a 7.9 here in November 2002, but the epicenter was about 200 miles north of here so there was no local damage, just a lot of shaking.

I hope all of you in that New Madrid zone down there keep yourselves safe. You Californians, too.

[SpiralHawk]

84. The deep red zone in the Heartland (not the Orwellian "Homeland"*

is shaped somewhat like a heart -- it certainly evokes heart archetypes



* Screw the Orwellian "Homeland" propaganda I am a citizen of the United States of America I don't want no steenkin "Homeland" I want my American heartland, and all the rest mr bush, quit catapulting the propaganda And tell your corrupt cronies to do the same

[stevedeshazer]

86. Nowhere is safe. You're all a bunch of wussies.

Where I live, it's earthquake central. Volcanoes, tsunamis, windstorms too.

I've got my 2 cases of chili and my shotgun in my basement. I'm ridin' it out.

[CAG]

90. For freepers; CA quake = bee bee, new madrid quake= buckshot

just trying to help out the lurkers. All of you librul elites were using way too many polysyllabic words.

[theHandpuppet]

98. The city is spelled C-I-N-C-I-N-N-A-T-I

Not Cincinatti or Cinncinati or Cincinnatti or any of an hundred other spellings I've seen on this forum. Cincinnati was named for the Society of Cincinnatus, a group of Revolutionary War officers who honored the Roman Consul Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus. Sorry, but I just couldn't take it anymore. :crazy:

[Radio_Lady]

110. Spelling time! Goody, goody!

Thanks for taking up the cause!

In peace,

TV show WKRP viewer from the last century!

Radio_Lady

(Luckily, I've only lived in Miami, Florida, Boston, Massachusetts and Portland -- well... Beaverton -- Oregon.)

Of course, there are about ten ways to mispronounce OREGON!

I tell people -- just think of it as ORGAN, y'know, like your stomach, spleen, or liver. OR-gan! It's that simple.

[Bridget Burke]

103. California building codes deal with seismic possibilities.

New buildings have to meet standards & old ones often need retrofitting. Simple brick buildings of several stories will fall like houses of cards if given a good shake--I'm sure many of these are found in the Midwest.

I see nothing wrong with FEMA considering this eventuality. I just wish we could get the old FEMA back--not as a neglected part of crony-driven Homeland Security.

[MadHound]

104. Yes, it would be a disaster

For many reasons. Lots and lots of limstone, less stable and durable than granite. Lots and lots of caves throughout the area. An infrastructure than has never been built to withstand an earthquake of any magnitude. Poorly prepared emergency services would be overwhelmed. Poorly informed public.

All that said, there has been a constant push for preparation for the past twenty years, at least here in Missouri.

But when all is said and done, the likelihood of this happening is quite small, and I find that this meme is being pushed right before the onset of hurricane season rather misleading. Yes, we should be prepared for any disaster, but there are more urgent disasters looming over us than the New Madrid letting go.

[ProfessorGAC]

111. As Opposed To . . . .?

Is there such a thing as an earthquake that wouldn't be bad? I know what you mean. I'm just tweakin' ya!

Look as a resident of the upper midwest, i sure don't want to see that plate move. However, i saw a study on that by geologists that showed there is only a 1% chance of one happening in the next 100,000 years. I'll take those odds.
The Professor