Do you believe in Good and Evil ?

[rpgamerd00d]

Often, freepers and neocons will flame a liberal with the phrase "The world is not black and white, its shades of grey."

So, I can't do a poll, but I wanted to ask, "Do you believe in Good and Evil?" (aka black and white world).

This is an interesting question to me because it removes religion from the picture, and drives at your own, personal ethics and view of the world. Regardless of your beliefs, your race, class, or anything else, do you personally believe in the concept of Absolute Good and Absolute Evil?

Further, I will ask this: Do you believe that Evil should be killed? (and, yes, I literally mean killed) Or do you believe that Evil is not irreconcilable, and that Evil can be reformed or redeemed?

So, the questions:

1) Do you believe in the concept of Absolute Good and Absolute Evil or do you believe in Moral Relativism ?
2) Do you believe that Evil should be killed or do you believe it should be redeemed ?

[rpgamerd00d]

1. I'll start

1) Yes, I believe in absolute good and absolute evil.
2) Yes, I believe Evil is unredeemable and it should be killed.

[villager]

2. the GOP is clearly in the grip of a deep, soul-deadening evil

I'm not joking. I don't know if it started with the postwar deals with the Nazis, or what, but there is a malignancy there, manifest in their policies and pronouncements.

Copping to this may be what neuters the Dems, and keeps them from acting in the ways they should...

[Roxy66]

13. I truely believe it started with the over-load of Right-wing radio

It's like brain washing....if some people hear the Dems are weak, babie killers, traitors, etc.....some of that will start to stick. Especially when the recipients wont fight back. It's Cult-like....they just need time to be de-programmed

[Che_Nuevara]

3. Would you be okay with killing it yourself?

If you thought someone was evil, would you be okay with killing them personally? Or would you shove it off on someone else?

[rpgamerd00d]

5. I am talking purely concept, not practice.

Once you get to the "if you thought someone was evil" part, all of a sudden, you hit the problems of the real world, like evidence/proof, for example.

However, morally speaking, I see myself as an agent of Good, and if a battle erupted between the forces of Good and Evil, I would kill those on the side of Evil, repeatedly. Personally.

[Che_Nuevara]

8. 'Purely concept' rhetoric means nothing.

I mean, just in case the NSA is watching this thread (because hello, DU HAS to be on that list), I would like to point out that I am NOT saying "do you have plans to kill anybody"?

But we are talking about killing people here. Not 'agents of evil'. Y'know, people, with the same number of chromosomes as you and (at least theoretically) more or less similar brain functions.

So if it's you, and some other person -- I don't care who he is, what he says, what he looks like, where he comes from, etc. -- and you're convinced that this other person is evil ...

Do you kill him? You, personally. Kill the other guy. Do you do it?

[rpgamerd00d]

9. Absolutely. Without hesitation.

If I am actually 100% convinced, with irrefutable proof beyond doubt, I have no moral problem with it whatsoever.

However, I will not violate current laws. Therefore, I will not do any such thing. In this country, I would follow the law and pursue legal action. If attacked, I would gladly defend myself and end their life. But if not, no, I would pursue arrest, trial and conviction.

This is the point of this thread. What are you willing to kill for? At what point do you say "This is my breaking point, I can be pushed to here, but no further?" Can you even be pushed that far? That is what I'm interested in.

[AlienGirl]

11. I won't know unless I get there

And I hope I never do get there.

Tucker

[Che_Nuevara]

14. The question of whether or not I would kill someone

has absolutely nothing to do with whether I believe in 'Good and Evil'.

Can I imagine theoretical circumstances (which in no way interest the people who are being paid to read this forum :P) in which I would kill somebody? Yeah, I think I can. But it has absolutely nothing to do with good or evil. Any such situation would have a lot more to do with something that I conceived as perpetrated against me or something I care about.

And in answer to the original question, no. I don't believe in 'Good and Evil'. But I would caution you against statements such as your "or do you believe in Moral Relativism" above, as if those were the only two options. I don't believe in Moral Relativism either, y'know, not being a Jacobin and all.

[MadMaddie]

7. To kill it would make us no better then them.......

However; like a cancerous tumor I would isolate the evil....the evil cancerous tumor would be islolated to the red states....the very being of cancer is that it feeds on healthy flesh until it consumes it and then it kills itself....

Let these sick fucks (repugs)consume themselves in their cancerous hate....and kill off each other...

[Flabbergasted]

4. No and by default NA

[Ron Green]

6. Well, I believe in God . . .

. . . not a small, vengeful, personal, easily-classified bullshit god, but One who is infinite and eternal. And that means, to me, what we call "evil" is simply the human unwillingness to be part of that Infinite Self. Although perfect love is here for the taking, we have the choice to deny it, thereby choosing "non-God."

[AlienGirl]

10. There are good and evil acts and intentions

I don't believe any person *is* completely good or completely evil, but all people can have both good and evil intentions, and can do both good and evil acts. Anyone, therefore, can go from harboring mostly evil intentions and committing mostly evil acts to harboring mostly good intentions and performing mostly good acts.

Tucker

[stillcool]

12. I believe in Absolute Nothing...

meaning there are two sides to every coin. Good should be rejoiced, and has it's own rewards, and evil should be understood, and corrected...and of course the only tool used for either...is oneself. My success at solving any of my life's problems, has at the core been understanding the human components involved, and truly seeing my enemy as myself.

[mondo joe]

15. Don't believe in objective Good or Evil. n/t

[karlrschneider]

16. Years ago, I got permission to redact a little essay a friend posted,

his name is Dave Hamilton, we became friends on the old FIDO network. I have heard that he passed away but he told me I was free to update and post it as appropriate for more contemporary events. It was originally a virtual 'open letter' to someone else, but I discovered that with just a few changes in detail, it applies to the Bush.

Here is my slightly revised version:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recently I asked my friend if she believed in the existence of Satan. She
said not in a literal sense, but that the concept embodies social chaos
and destruction - lies, deceit, harm. I was reminded of a conversation I
had 25 years ago with a close friend, a professor of developmental
psychology, after I had finished a clinical practicum working with
inmates in a federal penitentiary. He asked me if I thought anyone was
truly evil, and in my callow and idealistic youth I said no; that
everyone has some redeeming positive quality.

Over the last few months, I've considered the promises, rhetoric and
actions that have emanated from your 'administration', and it gave me
thought to review that old question. I got out the notes I have been
keeping on you for some years and went over them, which led me to
question my friend.

I decline to proffer a diagnosis of your mental state. That would be
unethical. Without slander or libel I am free to call you a liar and a
cheat. The evidence exists at literally thousands of locations around
the world and is available with little effort.

Most people are acquainted with pain. You enjoy it vicariously in myself
and others. Undoubtedly there are some who simply pity you. I do not. I
despise you. I find no worth in you as a human being whatsoever, and
whatever qualities are lumped together to construct the mythical figure
of Satan are all found in yourself.

I will continue to expose you because as Edmond Burke said, "Evil
triumphs when good men say nothing." So I shall continue from a sense of
duty to humankind, just as years ago I separated the body parts of
small, dead children from wrecked autos after some drunk had whimsically
declared himself capable of driving. Please do not think for one second
that I am exposing you for any other reason. Not one word or action I
have ever seen from you contains a grain of truth or honesty.

I shall fulfill my promise to have my children and friends read history
textbooks because I want them to find out now that there are people like
yourself that would strip them of their intellect and innocent desire to
learn truth, and then rape them with the perverted seed of fascism,
disguised as "compassionate conservatism."

I want them to know that beyond the humour in your self-ridicule there
is a depth of evil that is unsurpassed in the most hardened criminal.

I care not whether you seek mental help. You are there; I am here. As
long as you continue to spew crass and arrogant lies in public (who
knows what craven notions you espouse in private) and decimate the soul
of America I will be there to show the dishonesty that oozes from every
pore of your wretched body.

You have fooled, cajoled, or intimidated a fair portion of the
electorate. But your scam is coming unraveled...every day, thousands
of Americans are willing to admit they have been victimized by a superb
con job and we are not going to take it any more. What you have done to
the country, the Presidency, the Constitution and the world is obscene
and disgusting.

Not all of us are willing fools, Mr. Bush.

[bliss_eternal]

17. I've never understood how they can make that argument--

Quote:
Often, freepers and neocons will flame a liberal with the phrase "The world is not black and white, its shades of grey."

They seem to be the ones that constantly argue in terms of extremes--black and white, right and wrong, etc.

Oh, and yes--I believe in the existence of good and evil. Maybe not in those terms, but I do for the most part.

[Mythsaje]

18. I believe in evil

but I don't believe in absolutes.

[Clara T]

19. Most things are not so clearly defined

But then there is just pure wicked evil as manifest in Institutions and/or people just as there is good manifest in many ways. Monsanto- Negroponte- Rumsfeld very wicked.

[KyuzoGator]

20. I disagree...the GOP is all about "black and white"!

"You're either with us or against us."

[TahitiNut]

21. We can't know a thing without knowing its opposite.

"Fish will be the last to discover water." (Albert Einstein)


Perhaps, better said, we can't know a thing until it's gone. For any abstract, there's its contrary. Before that, however, how do we know it until it's gone? Many theologians would say that 'hell' is the state of being without God ... or without God's love. Is that hate? I rather doubt it. I tend to think in terms of flavors of passion ... with preferred flavors. The absence of all passion is, for me, death ... or the end of the Universe. In the Theology of TahitiNut, 'flavors' serve our passions ... without which 'flavors' have no Purpose. I regard the 'Big Bang' as the split of 'no choice' into 'choice' .. a 0 (nothing) split into a 1 and a -1 (two somethings). But those 'two somethings' need passion ... which, perhaps, is the Need that Created the schism - the Big Is. In a sense, it depends on what the Meaning of Is is.

:evilgrin: <-- evil

[OneBlueSky]

22. evil is the absence of good . . .

much as darkness is the absence of light . . .

[Che_Nuevara]

23. So a vaccuum is evil? (n/t)

[Orrex]

25. Why else do you think nature abhors it? (nt)

[Minnesota Libra]

24. What in heaven's name is redeemable about neocons?? nt

[Emit]

26. I find just the opposite of your OP

I think that the bushbots see things in black and white. And, a basic, underlying concept of Neoconservatism is to see the world (especially foreign policy) in the black and white notion of the struggle between good and evil.

[kineneb]

27. Space is Big, really Big

Good and Evil are definitions given to actions observed by humans on this planet. Beyond the sphere of human influence, there are no definitions, only the All, which cannot be defined.

After all, the definitions for morality for methane-breathers somewhere in Betelgeuse may be completely different.

For the microcosmic(vs. macrocosmic) view, the Buddhist concept of "do no harm" is probably the easiest guideline. By this definition, BushCo has done an amazing amount of harm.

[dave29]

30. Damn methane breathers

When I was living near Betelgeuse, these SOB's would stop at nothing to control the methane. We finally had to eject them into space and ask Zaglarf for forgiveness

[Orrex]

28. "Good" and "evil" are artificial labels

They result from cultural and societal conventions, just like standards of beauty and ugliness.

1) Do you believe in the concept of Absolute Good and Absolute Evil or do you believe in Moral Relativism ?

Moral relativism is the only position justifiable by the limited capacity of our brains. We simply have no way to perceive "absolutes" of good or evil, if they even exist, because we can't know that our perceptions of these "absolutes" are valid.

At best, we can identify a person or an action or a behavior as consistent with our personal/cultural/societal notions of good and evil, but that's hardly the same as identifying a true absolute.

2) Do you believe that Evil should be killed or do you believe it should be redeemed ?

It may sometimes be necessary to kill the person who behaves in a manner that soceity deems "evil," but IMO the killing is only justifiable when the "evil" person presents a current and immediate threat. If the person is rendered harmless (by incarceration or the like) then soecity is not justified in killing him or her.

[genie_weenie]

29. In order for there to be Absolute Good (or Evil)

there has to be a standard, to measure these ideas of absolutes against. In the Western World, that Standard post 476 AD, was the Christian God. However, prior to this in Greece and after the French philosophes, the West could no longer be use the Christian God.

You also have the problem of transmission of the boundaries of this good and evil. How do we know something is good or evil? Do ideas of good and evil emanate from the Standard (God)? What do we judge them against? It's obvious humans do not inherently contain within themselves exact agreement on what is good or evil.

So, I do not believe in an absolute good or evil. Most of what we consider good or evil comes from enculturation. Of course, now I am left with the question of whether any act can be considered good or evil? Or if in fact anything "can" be good?