When most people go to their offices, the guards recognize them.

[Padme Amidala]

A lot of places have more than 535 employees. As for the staff, she was one of the top people, being an elected official. I know what she looks like and I've never met her. The man should be fired for incompetence.

[Goblinmonger]

1. Yeah, but she's black.

And she was in an elected officals building. Don't you get it? :crazy:

[brainshrub]

2. What are you talking about?

[Katherine Brengle]

3. I don't buy this argument --

I didn't know what she looked like, or that she was black for that matter, but then again, I don't work there.

But there is a reason why they wear the little pins and have ID cards--all she had to do was function within standard operating procedure and everything would have been fine.

This whole story annoys me...

[bainz]

4. Protocol?

I used to work in the Saudi Aramco building in Houston. While the guards recognized me, I could not walk in without my badge. There were times that I left it in my car, and the guard on duty would tell me to go back and get it before allowing me to enter.

[mondo joe]

5. If she's one of the Top People she ought not to be hitting, poking or

doing whatever to someone in a subordinate position - even an incompetent one.

[Savannah Progressive]

6. OK, here is a problem

I work at a Port, not a large one, but I have to show my identification each and every day, entering and leaving. While I often joke of the annoyance, I know that everyone has to do this, regardless of position, or authority. This is a guarantee of safety for everyone, and that is something I disagree with on this case, the guards are allowing the elected people to enter a building without passing a metal detector. So again Congress passes laws that you and I, the common people, must obey, yet exempt themselvs. Heck of a pattern we have developed, Congress exempts themselvs from how many laws now? Perhaps I should run for office, the idea of being above the law is one that I could get used to.

Now, for the sake of argument, let's say that we allow these Holier than Thou to bypass on looks alone, no identification, not even a "I'm the elected holier than thou" to bypass security. How many people look similar to the elected official? How many are crazy? How many can pass for one of those 535 holier than thou the laws don't apply to me people? If someone passes that checkpoint, and the guard looks and decides that the person looks like a Congresswoman, and waves her by, and she shoots a dozen people, haven't we done the wrong thing there?

At a school, the teachers, and Administrative staff must pass through the metal detectors, why not our kings and queens in Congress? If a Principal has endure a security check at HER SCHOOL, why not a Congressperson in their own office.

I don't see this as incompetence in that one Officer, I see this as another example of the Czarist mentality of our elected officials, so far above the common folks, that they deserve special treatment always. Pfui. The laws and rules must apply equally to all if a truly equitable society is to exist, there can be none above, nor below, the law.

[malaise]

22. Where I work you have to have a sticker on your car

to enter the main gate and another to park in selected areas. When I changed cars, it took a while to obtain the reserved parking sticker so I only had the main gate sticker, but guards in my other section allowed me to use my ID. Even when they rotate guards, they know the staff. I don't know the facts outside of MSMs interpretation, but I doubt that the guard would have handled Frist or any of them in a similar manner. The fact that this is an election year only makes me more suspicious.

[Extend a Hand]

7. this is another attemp by the RW media to smear

Cynthia McKinney. Who looses by the bad publicity here? not the guard (who is never named).

I can't believe the capitol has such a half-assed security system. I go to word wave my badge at a little pad the door opens and the guards see my picture and id on a screen. They know everybody and we have way more than 535 people. geez.

[RoyGBiv]

8. Not quite ...

I have no particular dog in this hunt at the moment. I'm trying to be patient and wait for more facts about the incident to come out before I form a complete opinion.

However, I'm getting a little tired of this line of thought. Whether security recognizes all of the employees at a place that employs 535 people is rather beside the point. I work in a building that is considered a potential target of terrorists in some scenarios. As a result, we have security protocols in place. The security guard does recognize me as I am one of 12 people that work in this building. Hell, I've hung out with him on weekends occasionally, so he knows me rather well. However, if I forget my security badge, I am not allowed simply to walk into the building on mere face recognition. I must ring a bell, give him some form of identification, then wait for him to clear me with his superiors and issue a temporary security badge. If this makes me late for work, that's my fault for forgetting my badge, not his for following the guidelines of his job. If I were to resist him in any way, verbally or physically, he has complete authority to have me arrested.

As we're rightly fond of saying, no one is above the law, not Presidents and not Congresspeople. No one should be above rules and regulations either. If they have put rules in place, they have to follow those rules just like everyone else does. They don't get a free pass simply because they were late for a meeting or whatever.

I am not presently willing to condemn the security officer. I am perfectly willing to condemn the media for instantly focusing on the negative aspects of this as they apply to the Congresswoman when those same media personalities are all too willing to defend or shy away from very real scandals associated with Delay, Frist, et al. But this is a problem of proportion in the media, not one of what actually took place between the Congresswoman and the security officer.

[niyad]

9. however, the protocols for MC"s are different--and they are allowed to

bypass security.

[RoyGBiv]

10. Different how?

I didn't know anyone had brought up anything to indicate Congresspeople have a different set of rules for them than others who enter those buildings.

Were the protocols for McKinney different from those for some other Congressperson? If one can show that to be the case, one has a point about the security generally being biased. That still doesn't mean the security officer wasn't doing his job appropriately in this case. It means he or other security officers were doing their jobs inappropriately in cases where they did not follow the rules.

Yes, Congresspeople have a certain set of rules for bypassing security. Those rules do not allow anyone claiming to be a Congressperson to walk in, nor do they allow for "face recognition" as one comment apparently from McKinney seems to claim.

[niyad]

11. have you NOT been paying attention? MC's do NOT have to show

badges, and ARE allowed to bypass the checkpoints.

[RoyGBiv]

12. With an identifying pin ...

Which she admits she didn't have.

Next.

[QC]

13. Aren't they supposed to wear lapel pins to get past security? n/t

[Savannah Progressive]

19. According to one of the first reports

Representative McKinney claimed to have forgotten her "Congressperson" pin which is what they use to identify themselvs. I presume that is more attractive than the shoe lace string holding the collection of identification cards and passes that the rest of us have to use.

[RoyGBiv]

20. No kidding ...

I've got so many keys, badges, and security codes that I'm surprised I can remember to get dressed in the morning. My keychain is not comfortable to put in my pocket, and my main badge can get bent or torn (and thus not work) if I wear it around my neck all the time. It sometimes rubs a rash on my neck when its hot. So, I set things down and forget to get them now and again.

I only wish I only had to wear what essentially amounts to a decorative pin.

FWIW, I thought your other post in this thread was right on target. This is a troubling aspect of this whole thing to me too. I fully appreciate the work McKinney has done and continues to do, but to be perfectly honest, I'm not very sympathetic to the "I forgot it" excuse. Good people can make mistakes, and when they make one, they need to own up to it. I don't get to use that as an excuse where I work. I'm not quite sure why she or anyone else should get to use it either.

I mean, imagine, the President wakes up one day and decides he wants to nuke the world. Problem is, the guy who follows him around with a briefcase died or something, and the Pres didn't think to get the nuke codes. He walks into SAC headquarters, tells them to launch, and they want the codes. "Hey, I'm the President, and I have a lot to do. I didn't think to bring them. You know my face. Push the button." Doesn't work that way, and yes I know this is an absurd example, but it's what comes to mind.

[Savannah Progressive]

21. If you really want to see how the Czarists in Congress live

Walk up to any cop, anyone you see, and poke or punch them, using either because of the two conflicting stories, and see what happens.

I would suggest a couple things though.

1) Make sure you have bail money on you, otherwise you'll be waiting for someone to bring it down to get you out.

2) Memorize your attorneys number, don't figure that number jotted down in your wallet will suffice, because you will have completed the booking process, that includes checking all personal items, before you are allowed to make a phone call.

For the rest of us, there isn't any hesitation when assaulting a police officer, even just a one finger poke in the chest. We are going to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200, don't even think about it. In Georgia, Assaulting a police officer, even a light poke in the chest, is a Felony, and the Judges love to throw the book at you for that one.

[Nailzberg]

18. Probably the most reasonable post I've seen on this.

The most irritating thing to me is this claim that the officer was incompetent or stupid because he can't remember 535 faces. There are a heckuva lot more people employed at congressional offices than just the legislators. Thousands of people work there, thousands more are there doing business there.

She was bypassing security which is only done by members, their entourages, and the occasional psycho with a gun. Let's not forget, long before 9/11, DC was the favored destination for every psych case with a grievance. Still is. Whatever officer is guarding that entrance has the right and responsibility to stop someone to verify their identity.

The same thing applied at my high school, where security needed to see my student ID when I entered the building, or I would need to sign in at the attendance office and get a temp pass for the day. In college, same deal at the dorms. ID and Key needed to be presented to get into the building. And every office I've ever worked at.

I can't just breeze past security and walk on set of the TV show I produce.

Really, we don't have the facts yet. What this comes down to is the officer's conduct and Rep. McKinney's conduct. All these arguments are being made in the absence of any evidence. I'm not making a judgment, but the whole "How dumb is this guy that he can't remember 535 faces" argument irks me.

[LisaL]

14. What a load of bull.

Maybe we should get rid of IDs altogether? I can't believe people here are claiming the guard should be able to remember hundreds of people, or that it's the part of their job. If that was, then none of the congressmen would need IDs or pins.

[dailykoff]

15. Does Dick have to wear his veep pin?

Does Hastert have to empty his pockets?

I doubt it.

[LisaL]

16. They all have to wear pins.

[BiggJawn]

17. Yeah,but I had to go through the freaking detector anyway.

"Morning, Bob."
"Morning, Jawn, what's all this in the bag?"

"Tools. City Property. You can confiscate them, but you'll have to explain to the head of the Franchise Board why you seized City Property, and maybe Dr. Servass, too..."

"I'm just doing what the Judges ordered me to. You get a green border around your ID badge, you can skip the detector. Until then, I got a Job to Do..."

The whole damn thing's been blown out of proportion and sounds like Privilege v. Payback for Bugman.