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Earth Bound Misfit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 06:15 PM
Original message
Rochester (MN) Post-Bulletin EFCA Poll needs some DU love
http://news.postbulletin.com/newsmanager/templates/localnews_story.asp?z=12&a=389795#comment

Article by C of C Chairman-elect is, of course, standard anti-EFCA BULLSHIT. Let's really pizz him off by DUing this poll.

Current results:

Do you favor the Employee Free Choice Act, which would recognize a union if a majority of workers sign union authorization cards?
Yes 228 (56.02%)
No 179 (43.98%)

Total Replies : 407
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Gotcha!
Easy..................
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Gladly.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. done
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. k&r for labor. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. Voted

K&R!

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Earth Bound Misfit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. Good job, everybody
Current results:

Do you favor the Employee Free Choice Act, which would recognize a union if a majority of workers sign union authorization cards?
Yes 334 (55.12%)
No 272 (44.88%)

Total Replies : 606

:)
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Joesunionreview Donating Member (173 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Polls are too easy to manipulate n/t
Edited on Sat Mar-14-09 03:57 PM by Joesunionreview
Especially with a bullshit piece of crap article written by the US Chamber Of Commerce as if it were factual.
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Liberalsiano Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. You don't care about the worker.
Done! I voted a big fat "no" like all true liberals who actually value workers rights should have voted.

A signature is not the equivalent of a vote. The latter is much, much, much more likely to represent your true opinion than the former. Having your voting information be public opens you up to intimidation from everyone (Unions and employers alike)

Is the current system flawed? Yes, heavily so. Currently workers are intimidated by employers. The solution here is to eliminate intimidation- not to open them up to intimidation from unions.


I'm with Chris Mathews- clean up the employer side intimidation and enforce a 2 week secret ballot rule. Boom, problem solved. The pro-EFCA side seems to paint the issue as a moronic false dichotomy- either the current bad system or the proposed terrible system.

The funniest argument in favor of it is the "It lets the workers CHOOSE whether or not they want to use the secret ballot system or not!" as if that is inherently good. The choice in this case is the illusion of choice. There is hardly any "choice" involved if you are surrounded by heavily ideological friends (Either pro-union or anti-union) and the union organizers can repeatedly approach you to sign their card.




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Joesunionreview Donating Member (173 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Signed up at DU just to post that? One question comes to mind..
Yeah, are you an intern or a paid for crony for the Heritage Foundation? Or are you just a FOX viewer masquerading as a liberal.

Just for the record there Liberalsiano, a petition is all that is needed for a group of employees to decertify a union. No secret ballot and 100% intimidation from the employer. If you care so much about workers rights, write about that!
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Liberalsiano Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Workers rights is an issue I feel strongly about.
Yeah derpa derp accuse me of being a conservative/Republican because I disagree with you on one issue. A hivemind isn't a good thing, that's generally something Republicans are known for.


Do you have a reasonable response or just ad hominem attacks?


And you outlined another problem with unions. Do you honestly not think I would be in support of secret ballots for decertification? That's ridiculous and this issue is ridiculous.



Workers rights is an issue I feel strongly about, and that includes the right to freedom from intimidation. Freedom from worker intimidation, freedom from employer intimidation.


Let me ask you a question: Would you support a bill that effectively neutered the employers ability to intimidate and enacted secret ballots, mandatory within 2 weeks of all card checks with 30% or more of employees signing on?
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Joesunionreview Donating Member (173 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I'll answer your entire post if you like
I'll answer your entire post if you like

Yeah derpa derp accuse me of being a conservative/Republican because I disagree with you on one issue. A hivemind isn't a good thing, that's generally something Republicans are known for.


When your first post on the board is in the labor section, going against the Employee Free Choice Act and you titled it "You don't care about the worker", I, as a frequent user of this and many other forums have a right to state that I personally think that you have an ulterior motive. There is nothing "hiveminded" about it, comparing me to what "Republicans" in your opinion "known for" is moot. Here's some thoughts on your first posting

A signature is not the equivalent of a vote. The latter is much, much, much more likely to represent your true opinion than the former. Having your voting information be public opens you up to intimidation from everyone (Unions and employers alike)


But for the majority of years that unions have existed, majority sign up has been the way it is done, the "secret ballot" was created to thwart unionization.

Is the current system flawed? Yes, heavily so. Currently workers are intimidated by employers. The solution here is to eliminate intimidation- not to open them up to intimidation from unions.

I'm with Chris Mathews- clean up the employer side intimidation and enforce a 2 week secret ballot rule. Boom, problem solved. The pro-EFCA side seems to paint the issue as a moronic false dichotomy- either the current bad system or the proposed terrible system.


Why would the problem be solved if we go from the average of 6 weeks to 2 weeks? Why do you claim that the Employee Free Choice Act would be a "terrible" situation and what is currently in use is only a "bad" situation. You also fail to mention that there would be actual fines for labor violations against workers, unlike the current system where the employer may have to pay back wages if they fire a union supporter, minus whatever money they have earned in the interim, and possibly post a notice far after the "secret ballot" election is over.

The funniest argument in favor of it is the "It lets the workers CHOOSE whether or not they want to use the secret ballot system or not!" as if that is inherently good. The choice in this case is the illusion of choice. There is hardly any "choice" involved if you are surrounded by heavily ideological friends (Either pro-union or anti-union) and the union organizers can repeatedly approach you to sign their card.


Right now as it stands it's extremely hard to get to an employee to organize once a drive is declared, the workers are scared from speaking to organizers while the employer has their ear for the workday, you claim union intimidation, and I can tell you from a matter of factual stand point of being in one, that unions are terrified of being penalized before a court of law. If there is intimidation on the union side I would expect there to be NLRB charges filed against the union and appropriate penalties.

Now more from your second

Do you have a reasonable response or just ad hominem attacks?

Lets go back to where you claim that a NLRB 2 week election rule would be better off than the Employee Free Choice Act, you are guilty of your own ad hominem attacks. You state that signing cards is not a good way to get into a union, you group all supporters of The Employee Free Choice Act into a category of pushers of a much worse system and thereby giving your argument for the 2 week election credence and making EFCA supporters out to be against the interests of the workers. Then in another line you state "And you outlined another problem with unions" and point at the decertification process that was created by business, how on earth is that a problem with unions. You then also add how concerned you are with workers, giving your argument leverage against your terms of "intimidation from unions". You are either playing word games or are sincere in your writing, but there is a strong anti-union message in your words and that is the way propagandists work, they distort words and get a rise. You offer a slight change in the NLRB as a true change, closed to the facts of what an organizing drive is really like. You just fire away with "you don't care about workers" and show no supporting evidence to your argument.

Workers rights is an issue I feel strongly about, and that includes the right to freedom from intimidation. Freedom from worker intimidation, freedom from employer intimidation.


We'll see if you keep posting on this board, in another post you use the anti-union think tank talking point about "Orwellian" and "anti-democratic", further solidifying my belief that you are a shill.

Let me ask you a question: Would you support a bill that effectively neutered the employers ability to intimidate and enacted secret ballots, mandatory within 2 weeks of all card checks with 30% or more of employees signing on?


Let me ask you a question, why are you spewing that a 2 week interim would eliminate employer intimidation? How about this one, who do you work for? Cause the bullsh!t detector has been beeping since you signed up.

Calling us a bunch of people "who do not care about workers", stating out of context that "another problem with unions" and calling the Employee Free Choice Act "Orwellian" and a "piece of **** bill" paints you out to be anti-union, anti-worker and, in my eyes, a traitor to this country. Hows that for derpa derp?


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Joesunionreview Donating Member (173 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. wow, what got deleted? n/t
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Earth Bound Misfit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. Numbers are THRU THE ROOF!
Do you favor the Employee Free Choice Act, which would recognize a union if a majority of workers sign union authorization cards?
Yes 3954 (88.08%)
No 535 (11.92%)

Total Replies : 4489

:evilgrin:

Sorry I missed our troll "friend", had to work last night, got home about 5:30 AM. I miss all the FUN stuff...(sigh).
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