Does Religious Belief Matter In Politics?

[gateley]

Run time: 05:37 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36QpmM2ttro   Posted on YouTube: April 13, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: April 14, 2008 By DU Member: gateley Views on DU: 691

 

[sam sarrha]

1. usually only to other people.. Religion scares me

[stray cat]

2. Yes - if someone believed in child sacrifices I wouldn't vote for him

[IntravenousDemilo]

3. I'd say that people who steadfastly and unapologetically believe in unseen and unknowable spooks...

...are probably too ignorant to be allowed anywhere near a polling station, much less run for any position that requires responsibility and rational thinking.

So, yes, religious belief does matter in politics, but not in the way most people believe it does.

[mikelewis]

8. I steadfastly and unapologetically believe in unseen spirits...

Indeed, if I did not, I would be forced into disbelieving in you since you are both unseen and quite unknowable. Even if I were to meet the corporeal form of you, I would be inclined to say that I do not know you... even if we became friends for years and years I suspect there will be parts of you I never quite reach. In spite of this limitation, I still believe you exist and maybe that makes me too ignorant to vote but thank God that Democracies were invented to offer the blessing of self-determination for such ignorant people as myself. God be with you my friend.

[IntravenousDemilo]

9. God is not responding to your post, I am. And no, you're not just imagining me.

This is an actual experience you're having. If you want verification, there are a number of DUers who have met me, including one who has slept with me on numerous occasions. And you may or may not have seen me on TV back in March or November of last year, but millions of people have done, and that was real, too. And if they taped Jeopardy! for later viewing or just because, they have the evidence of my face right on their tape or DVD as proof of my existence.

The Deity cannot claim such proof.

[mikelewis]

10. I stated that I did believe you existed so it seems strange that you would protest my disbelief...

If I had stated that you did not exist, I could understand the insane desire to prove that you exist but rest assured, I believe that you do exist. I am pleased that you have the testimony of many DUer's who have "met you" and even one who has had intimate relations with you as proof of your existence... but I remind you, we cannot use testimony of one's existence to prove existence. If that was the case then the Bible would have to be submitted as an exhibit as to the proof of God's existence... as would the Koran and the Gita's and probably most of the other religious texts that discuss the corporeal nature of "The Deity". If I were to go off the testimony of these books or your people, I would have to place a certain level of faith into their witness and according to atheist's, faith is not a reasonable basis by which people can base their belief's. Seeing as how I do not have this handicap... I can accept your existence without really all that much questioning.

I am also very impressed that you were on a Television game show... you must be wicked smart. I happen to like wicked smart people who are on game shows... like Jimmy Neutron: Boy Genius. He was on an intergalactic game show where the losers world was destroyed if the team lost. Luckily Jimmy's team won and saved the galaxy... because seeing it on TV proves existence, had I known that cartoon drawing actually existed and that the fictional scenario was real, I may have been a bit more alarmed by the episode.

[IntravenousDemilo]

11. Though I am constrained by my need for proof of the existence of a supreme being...

...the fact that you are responding back is sufficient proof for me or anyone of your existence. You said, "Indeed, if I did not {believe in unseen spirits}, I would be forced into disbelieving in you since you are both unseen and quite unknowable." Well, I've never been to China, but I know a lot of Chinese people, have read extensively in reputable publications about China, and have seen film footage of the place -- plus my brother was there and he showed me far too many slides, so I know China exists. It's not all a massive plot to deceive me, a plot that the whole world is in on except for myself. I don't have to have been there in order to acknowledge the existence of China, and to suggest otherwise is sophistry.

There are well-documented phenomena in our corporeal world whose existence we can treat as axiomatic. Metaphysical phenomena, however, have to cross a higher threshold of believability than things that people can reasonably experience with their senses. The sole reason you believe I exist is that you know damned well that I do. It makes no sense that the only reason you know I exist even without having met me is predicated upon your believing in a whole host of other fancies sight-unseen, and your notion, that belief or disbelief in a god without actually seeing one is in any way related to belief or disbelief in more mundane, easily verifiable things without having seen them, is a false one. Comparing people (yes, we know they exist) and gods (yeah, prove it) is like comparing apples and saxophones.

Also, your addition of Jimmy Neutron to the argument is a red herring, as Jimmy is animated and I'm somewhat less so. The reason I mentioned being on TV is that some 20 million people have seen my face and heard my voice at roughly the same time, and that's a claim that no imaginary being can make. Should he or she wish to go on Jeopardy! -- and any actual omniscient god who were to go on the show would definitely clean up big time -- and be seen and identified as a god by a similar number of people, then "god" can take the online test and reveal him- or herself to us unmistakably once and for all. Is that so much to ask? It shouldn't be a problem for an omnipotent and omnipresent being. :shrug:

Whether we, or god, or anything exists is a topic that has bedevilled philosophers since before Plato, so I don't think we're likely to find any definitive answers here.

[mikelewis]

12. 2.1 billion people claim to have experienced the presence of God..

Are you trying to claim Jeopardy has more devoted viewers than Christianity? And this isn't the total amount of God-delusional people since Jews and Muslims both suffer under the same fallacy... the addition of these groups would put the number of people who claim a personal belief in a deity to just under 4 billion. I have not even added the Hindu and other faiths which would put the number much higher... and we won't even include the dead who were alive and did believe. Does Jeopardy claim such a viewership... in deed the people who own the show do not even make that claim... Of course, none of these billions and billions of people who claim to have experienced God can be trusted because their proof requires belief in things you have not seen and since God must prove himself to you for his existence to be certain therefore the Deity must not exist.

Also, to be fair, I asked God about this issue but he said he didn't watch that episode of Jeopardy so he has no idea if you existed. This answer really disturbed me because I of course had to question whether or not I was conversing with a figment of my imagination. I offered your replies and our conversation as proof but he wouldn't accept it as truth and claimed that I was biased towards my own personal delusions. God's funny like that...

Rest assured, even though God doesn't believe you exist, I still do and I refuse to let anyone ever convince me otherwise.

[IntravenousDemilo]

13. Ah, but are there any extant photos or video clips of this "god" person?

Christianity has more devoted followers than Jeopardy!, but so far not nearly as many devoted viewers. Come to think of it, "god" has no viewers who can back up their claim, and not many claimants to have seen and talked him/her/it either, outside of people who have been confined to rubber rooms. But you know, an omnipresent being would have actually been in the studio when we taped all eight of my episodes, so he/she/it must have been fibbing when saying he/she/it didn't see them.

Now, I'm not claiming that faith is always a negative thing. It's a most effective way for those in charge to maintain order in society. Some people really do need religion, because deep down, pretty well all humans are nasty, venal, self-serving, altogether loathesome creatures who would probably murder you for your money if religion didn't hold them back. I happen to be one of those who doesn't require those brakes, because my agnostic, socialist parents taught me how to apply them myself with no need for religion. It galls me no end that religionists say, quite openly and loudly, that agnostics and atheists "don't believe in anything" or have no moral compass, because that's simply not the case. BTW, I'm also gay, so there's that whole issue there as well.

Anyway, I live in a fact-based world, and no matter what Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and John McCain have to say about it, that simply doesn't jibe with belief in imaginary beings. Your mileage obviously varies from mine, and if faith keeps you warm at night, if it makes you feel whole, if it's the thing that helps you make sense of this brutal world -- in short, if you need it in order to feel happy -- then it would be ignoble of me to suggest that it be denied to you, and I could never do that. So more power to you, just so long as you don't insult anyone's intelligence by claiming that faith is truth.

[gateley]

4. I found the video to actually be pretty good.

I almost quit watching it in the beginning, but it turned out to be interesting.

[stlsaxman]

6. I was quite surprised as well. She made some great points.

Comparing Wright/Obama to McCain/"Christian Nazis" to good effect. Saying Obama shouldn't have to worry that McCain will bring up Wright since he got Heege, Falwell, and all the others endorsements.

I saw the scroll line "Heaven Help Us" and thought "no shit!" but as she went on i started saying "damned right!".

[whistle]

5. Religious Beliefs do matter in politics, when it becomes political and is used

...to suspend the Constitution

[AlbertCat]

7. Yes...

a candidate must know about religion, and understand about religion....none of which, thank gawd, requires believing in a religion. An atheist would make a great president! And an atheist prez would treat all religions on a truly democratic way.

Of course....as one poster on YouTube put it:

Does it matter that your beliefs came from your own independent thought process or are if they were imposed from the outside. Leader vs follower....sorta....