Wes Clark: Hillary will take the fight to the convention

[ultraist]

Run time: 05:46 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGXDLfqswlk   Posted on YouTube: May 29, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: May 29, 2008 By DU Member: ultraist Views on DU: 2552

 
Hillary supporter, Wes Clark, states on The Verdict with Dan Abrams that if the conflict over Michigan and Florida delegates is not resolved at the upcoming DNC Committee meeting, Hillary will take the fight to the national convention

[gateley]

1. Rachel Maddow said the same thing today.

And since Hillary wants all the delegates seated, and the DNC came out today and said only half could be, then I don't think it will be "resolved" on Saturday.

Unless Obama gets the delegate count that Hillary is now saying is required, Hillary won't accept that he has won. To the convention we go.

[ultraist]

2. Carville also said the same thing

That Hillary will take it to the convention. That wont be pretty, if it happens!

[gateley]

5. I think it will be irreparably harmful to the Party. I know it will be. nt

[mac2]

67. Silly

This is where we have always fought our battles. I remember Harry Truman coming in from no where to win the primary at the convention. Many VPs and and platform picked there also.

The delegates decided at the convention not Dean or Pelosi or anyone else.

[gateley]

68. That was then, this is now. An entirely different dynamic. nt

[FVZA_Colonel]

28. If it happens, we'll have tossed two months of campaigning right out the window.

Of course, Obama is running a de-facto campaign against McCain right now, but every god damn day counts.

[thereismore]

3. Clinton does not want any resolution of this. She just wants to cqarry this into the convention.

Superdelegates, you can end this!

[gateley]

6. It's my hope that if she says she'll appeal the

decision on Saturday, that they'll come on en masse on the 4th to put an end to this.

I don't understand how she can look fellow Dems in the eye.

[mac2]

12. How dare you pick you own candidate dismissing everyone

else's rights. You are a patriot being told to repeat going to the convention would divide us. It will divide us (many leaving the party) if we don't. Why belong to a party who determines on their own the winner before the delegates? It also silences us.

[gateley]

13. Thank you for taking the time to respond to another one of my posts.

But how dare YOU tell ME that I'm merely repeating what I've been told? I've come to my own conclusions and was stating how I feel, not someone else's line.

You say that many of you will leave the party if it doesn't go to the convention. Don't you think many would leave as well if it does? Both sides feel very strongly about this.

[raystorm7]

17. Agreed, and no matter how grey the middle ground may be, only one side is right on this matter.

The side that followed the RULES!

[mac2]

54. Both sides should demand it be settled for the vote of all.

If elections can't be fair they why have them at all? Go to the streets.

[sniffa]

29. Bye

Don't forget to take your ball. :hi:

[eagertolearn]

35. I think the delegates have already made up their minds.

I hope this is televised this Sat. because people need to see what is going on. Especially if Hillary try's to seat all the delegates. How do they figure out how many Obama gets in Michigan (Hillary 50% and Obama 0% because that is about the only way she could win)? That is really showing the will of the people. The elected officials knew what they were getting into when they moved the primary up. They should be fired in both states but how do you fix it now? It's just interesting that first Hillary was for not counting their ballots (she knew when before the elections happened that they had been striped of their delegates) and she was also okay with winning the election by the superdelegates but now she changes her mind and blames everything on Obama. I am dealing with this same type of behavior with one of my teenagers. You'd hope by the time they get to her age they would have grown up. I'm also dissapointed with General Clark. He too is making it sound like someone is trying to steal the election like in 2000. Why were these people not throwing a fit before the elections occurred saying "if we follow these rules people's vote won't count?". So give them half credit like the GOP (interesting that they are not threatening law suits) and do a recount in Michigan and also give them half the delegates if that's what the rules says. Hillary is making a fool out of herself.

[mac2]

55. So are you.

[anonymeme]

38. You Got It, mac2. What Kind of Candidate Seeks to Disenfranchise 2 MILLION Members of His Own Party?

Oh, that's right, it's Obama who wants to do that.

Obama who once got all the other candidates knocked off the ballot so that he could run unopposed for some political seat he wanted.

See his 8 part biography in the Chicago Tribune for details of his less than noble rise in politics. Here:

"The day after New Year's 1996, operatives for Barack Obama filed into a barren hearing room of the Chicago Board of Election Commissioners.

There they began the tedious process of challenging hundreds of signatures on the nominating petitions of state Sen. Alice Palmer, the longtime progressive activist from the city's South Side. And they kept challenging petitions until every one of Obama's four Democratic primary rivals was forced off the ballot.

Fresh from his work as a civil rights lawyer and head of a voter registration project that expanded access to the ballot box, Obama launched his first campaign for the Illinois Senate saying he wanted to empower disenfranchised citizens.

But in that initial bid for political office, Obama quickly mastered the bare-knuckle arts of Chicago electoral politics. His overwhelming legal onslaught signaled his impatience to gain office, even if that meant elbowing aside an elder stateswoman like Palmer.

A close examination of Obama's first campaign clouds the image he has cultivated throughout his political career: The man now running for president on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it.

One of the candidates he eliminated, long-shot contender Gha-is Askia, now says that Obama's petition challenges belied his image as a champion of the little guy and crusader for voter rights.

'Why say you're for a new tomorrow, then do old-style Chicago politics to remove legitimate candidates?' Askia said. 'He talks about honor and democracy, but what honor is there in getting rid of every other candidate so you can run scot-free? Why not let the people decide?'"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070403obama-ballot,1,57567.story

[ExPatLeftist]

42. Obama is not trying to disenfranchise anyone.

He is simply living by the rules that he agreed to, and signed on for.

Hillary signed on as well, AGREED to the rules, and did not give a damn about the delegates from MI or FL.

Now that she is losing, all of the sudden the rules = "disenfranchisement" and something to fight against. Hey Hillary, people MAY have listened a bit more if you had actually fought that fight BEFORE you signed the rules, not after you are losing.

It amazes me that anyone is buying her BS.

In the end, seat them, don't seat them - no biggie. Obama wins either way. That's what makes this circus even more ridiculous.


Simple facts: She signed for the rules, and now is trying to change them for personal benefit. My four year old knows better than that. What's your problem?

[mac2]

59. I don't care about the candidates or the party leaders.

I care about our right to vote (or those in MI and FL) not being negated by anyone.

[ExPatLeftist]

71. So you think a flawed election, with only one of the candidates on the ballot, after...

...voters were told that the election would not count (and therefore many stayed home) is somehow more democratic than following the rules that were agreed?

I might agree if you were arguing for a new, FAIR election, but arguing for seating the delegates according to the previous sham election in the name of "giving the people a voice" is either disingenuous or just illogical.

[johnt66]

46. Look no matter what

If Clinton win Aferican Americans,young voters and the well educated will leave the party, If Obama win the Clinton working class white voters will leave, no one is going to win but McCain the stack supreme court will win ROE V. WADE will be overturn. This how this is going to play out, and everyone is afraid to say so.

[eagertolearn]

49. Most of the people I know who voted for Hillary or Obama will vote for

the democratic candidate in the GE. There is more to this campaign than just Obama or Clinton and when the fog lifts people will be able to see.

[mac2]

58. If MI and FL don't have their delegates counted because of

Republican maneuvering and Democratic spinelessness then they will lose a lot of votes in the GE. Got it?

Apparently it's not your vote which was stolen.

[eagertolearn]

64. I agree with your anger because of what i think happened in Florida

If I got it right the repugs agreed to have a paper trail with the electronic voting machines if the Dems were willing to move the election up. Repugs only had half of their delegates taken away and according to the DNC any move would result in loosing 100% of delegates. So if this is really true than I think the election in Florida should stand as is! A applaud Florida for demanding a paper trail (I also wonder if the repugs knew that this would piss the democratic party off and cause a lot of unrest within the party!) But Michigan just moved up to move up and Hillary was the only one on the ballot. I don't think Obama supporters want to not count the votes we're just pointing out that rules were broken that were agreed upon by everyone in charge including Hillary Clinton. Still Obama is far enough ahead that even if they counted the Florida delegates as is Clinton could not catch up. You'd have to have only Clinton's counted in Michigan to have her even close to catching up but that's not right (than you are disenfranchising all those voters who would have voted for Obama). Saturday will be very interesting. I hope it is on TV.

[mac2]

66. It also violates the Republican primary rules.

http://www.agkyra.com/?p=193

Do you see them punishing their voters? No they want to win.

[ExPatLeftist]

41. I bet you cheat at boardgames, too. n/t

[mac2]

60. Whose cheating when they demand all votes be counted

fairly?

[ExPatLeftist]

72. Do you HONESTLY not understand that the election itself was not "fair"???

and you want to count the votes from an unfair and illegitimate election in the name of "fairness"?

Seriously, come on. I don't know who you think you are fooling other than yourself.

[ExPatLeftist]

44. "How dare you!"

Your candidate is trying to change the rules for personal benefit in the middle of a contest, you are enabling her, and you actually have the nerve to throw some righteous indignation at those who simply want the rules to be followed?

What a JOKE.

[raystorm7]

4. I like CLark but he's obviously doing what Hillary told him to do, squawk her talking points.

[mac2]

11. You think this should be a primary with only one man?

[raystorm7]

16. Sorry, you lost me =/

[beac]

20. Wes Clark has lost ALL credibility!

In the military the NUMBER ONE RULE is FOLLOW THE RULES... and if you don't YOU'RE OUT!


You can tell he knows he's lying too...

:puke:

[anonymeme]

43. You're Engaging in Character Assassination of Another Soldier for the DEMOCRATIC Party!

Wes Clark was "in the trenches" mentally, emotionally and politically, fighting for the Democratic party when Obama wasn't even a blip on the political radar.

Prove that he's "lying" or stuff it.

BTW, that little puke icon you chose shows everything anyone would need to know about you: someone who tries to denigrate a man whose shoe-tops he cannot see over.

[beac]

70. WTF??? The recycling symbol is a "puke icon"??? You make no sense.

And BTW, I come from a military family, so I know a little something about how it operates. My assertion that "FOLLOW THE RULES" is number one in the armed forces comes from PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE and when Wes Clark tries to use "the troops" to push his ridiculous view on Florida, I'm gonna call him on it.

So YOU "stuff it."

[Boo Boo]

69. Well, "lost ALL credibility" is taking it more than a bit far, but...

As a Clark supporter from way back, this pains me. I would've thought he'd have found a way to back out of the room by now. It's a bummer to see Clark play the loyal foot soldier for Hillary. He's not really doing her any good at this point, but he is doing harm to his own reputation. I agree that he probably knows it.

Oh well.

[youngharry]

36. Wes Clark

Wes Clark just lost me as a supporter for VP. Also, I'm resigning from his VoteVet's group as he has just proved that he is morally and intellectually dishonest. His take is bullshit.

[eagertolearn]

51. I agree. He is not even addressing that there were rules broken.

He just says count all the votes like someone is trying to disenfranchise the voters. Is there anyone out there from Michigan and/or Florida who are falling for this? Do you not realize that it was your own elected officials who screwed up? Michigan do you feel that the democratic primary should count when only Clinton was on the ballet (because Obama was following the rules)? Michigan how would you like to see things settled? I'd be really curious to see if everyone thinks the DNC and/or Obama has disenfranchised them in both those states or if they actually understand what is going on there.

[mac2]

56. Rules broken by Republicans on when to hold the primaries in MI and FL not the

Democratic party members. Got it!!

[eagertolearn]

65. So the repugs made that decision in Michigan too? I haven't heard that on yet. n/t

[tularetom]

7. Exactly why Obama should not consider Clark as a VP choice

joined at the hip to the clintons.

[Poll_Blind]

14. Hrm, I think I agree. n/t

PB

[mystieus]

19. He's too much of a mouthpiece for Hillary. Knowing this will hurt the party he carries on anyway

[skooooo]

8. when, how and by whom confirms a nomination???

Surely this can be settled before the convention.

[mac2]

10. Why?

You don't want the delegates who were sent by their constituents to pick the candidate,VP, and platform? That's the way its done.

[digidigido]

26. The delegates pick the candidate, The candidate picks the VP, that's how it's done

[ExPatLeftist]

39. Watch out...

...They'll try to change THAT rule, too, and force Hillary onto the ticket.

The depths to which some will stoop is amazing...

[skooooo]

63. Who certifies it?

I understand the process, but there has to be some formal mechanism that makes the nomination official. It might be a piece of paper the head of the DNC signs or something. There must be an explicit act at some point that makes it official so that it is officially declared. That's what I'm asking.

[understandinglife]

9. Get a clue Wes .. NO ONE CARES WHAT HILL & BILL DO ...

[juajen]

23. Obviously, you couldn't be more wrong. All eyes will be on the Clintons

and what they do will affect a ton of people. She has every right and should go on to the convention if she is not satisfied that the people are best served by the decision on Saturday.

[Vote4Change]

31. "All eyes" minus 2

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can guarantee you my eyes will be anywhere but on the Clintons. It has reached the point where I couldn't possibly care less about Mr. & Mrs. Liar.

[mac2]

61. But you should care what the Republicans and party do to

us voters.

[eagertolearn]

37. "The people best served" I believe you mean "the Clintons best served"! n/t

[eagertolearn]

52. She won't be satisfied until she is president but usually it's the people who decide that! n/t

[anonymeme]

45. Sez You. And Just Who Are You of Such Importance You Can Speak for Everybody?

Try doing what your chosen ID says... because you're pretty clueless for someone who calls him or herself "understandinglife"

[eagertolearn]

53. Smells like a repug. No ID.

[pedo]

15. punish the leadership?

you mean the way the clinton administration punished the leadership of iraq?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_sanctions#Infant_and_child_death_rates

[maxomai2]

18. If she does this...

...I will donate $200 to her most credible opponent in the primary election for her Senate seat.

And encourage everyone I know do to the same.

[beac]

21. I'll join you in that pledge!

[juajen]

24. Oh, my God, NO! I will alert the Clinton campaign. NT

[digidigido]

25. Me too, maybe even $1,000

[iamthebandfanman]

33. yup, as will i

i cant guarantee 200 bucks, but trust me... ill donate whatever i got to any democrat who challenges her seat.

[Muttocracy]

22. So will everyone stop talking about an Obama/Clark ticket now? nt

[CadenBlaker]

27. IF they attempt to take it....

If they attempt to take this to the convention, I will disown the Clinton's forever. That includes all of her surrogates that back taking it to the convention. I WILL KYLE her ass and vote Nader for that! If she had been against the Michigan and Florida situation from the beginning BEFORE the primaries, and not been on record as accepting the fact that they won't be counted, it would be a different story. I'm thinking I'm done with the Clinton's forever now as it is, and I can't possibly see myself giving my precious vote to someone I feel is a dishonest, bi-polar, do anything to win, including knee capping the country, liar. I can reject my inner KYLE IF they are honest for once and go by what the RULES are and not make them up as they go!!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

30. Already disowned these grifters.

[Dawgs]

32. Clinton will be ignored after next Tuesday.

Doesn't matter what she does.

[mac2]

73. Too bad since she clearly won Florida Democratic primary

by a large margin. It's OK to forget about that though.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/FL-D.phtml

[iamthebandfanman]

34. ill give wes clark something....

hes just as god damn loyal to the clintons now as he was in the 90s.

i suppose loyalty is a good quality.... the bush administration sure did bank on that one trait when selecting people.

[liberalcanuck]

40. Good God what happened to Wes Clark? I was for this guy in 2004

and can't believe what I'm hearing!

In what fantasy world is this guy operating in? How does he think this is fair when every candidate agreed that MI and FL should be punished and stripped of their delegates for moving up their primary? How is the vote count in FL or MI even accurately representative of the "will of the people" when a)Obama wasn't on the MI ballot and b)neither candidate campaigned in the states? Especially considering that generally when Clinton is up in state polling that once Obama starts campaigning there he at the very least narrows the gap?

How is this democratic? And how come the talking heads aren't pounding away on these very facts every time counting MI and FL is brought up?

This is insanity.

[Hutzpa]

48. And there are those who wants him

to be Obamas VP pick..... imagine the audacity.

[jfan2]

47. Wes Clark just lost my confidence

Wes Clark is just another BS liar politician.

[mac2]

57. Ya 3 votes you really can pick them.

Wes wants all the voters counted in FL and MI. Not let the Republicans pick our candidates to have it negated because of a party date rule.

[barack the house]

50. They need to leave Obama out of this it's their dispute with the DNC. It's really annoying

me when they mention Obama it wasn't his decision

[mac2]

62. I agree.

It is not about Obama or Hillary but what the Republicans did to force a break in the party. They decided the primary date not Democratic voters or party leaders.

Now two large states which could have lots of liberal votes are negated because they broke some stupid party rule. Disenfranchised Democratic voters may punish the party by not voting in the GE.