AP: Bush, Striesand's Kiss at Kennedy Center Honors (The Who!)

[Hissyspit]

Run time: 01:06 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-1Du8kcjLw   Posted on YouTube: December 08, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: December 08, 2008 By DU Member: Hissyspit Views on DU: 2713

 
Barbra Streisand got an awkward kiss on the cheek from the president, and yes, she gave him a smooch back. Streisand, a vocal critic of President George W. Bush, was a guest Sunday at the White House before being honored at the Kennedy Center. (Dec. 8)

[wtmusic]

1. That's disappointing. nt

[Hissyspit]

2. He kissed her as a formal representative of the United States honoring our artists.

She didn't have to do anything. She didn't have to say anything. He is the lamest of lame ducks, and these artists have contributed more to humanity than he ever could.

[Stanchetalarooni]

16. Next they jet off to Cambodia for the Pol Pot Cultural Cleansing awards.

Un-fucking-believable!

[Tangerine LaBamba]

3. Roger Daltry and Pete Townshend?

Who comes up with these candidates?

What's next?

Paris Hilton?

[lutherj]

4. Aren't they English? I thought the White House honored American

talent at these events.

[Hissyspit]

7. They honor contributions to American culture. Don't have to be American.

[onenote]

8. Not exclusively.

For example, Elton John was an honoree in 2004. I don't believe Pavarotti ever became a US citizen, and he also was an honoree, as was George Solti, who I am certain was not a US citizen.

[onenote]

5. okay, you really didn't just equate Daltrey and Townshend to Paris Hilton

No one is that stupid.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

10. Come on

With all the great artists who bloomed in the sixties, The Who?

Please. Their songs were terrific, but there are so many other people who did great things during that time. To pick Daltrey and Townshend is, in my opinion, another example of the White Bread taste of this loathesome administration.

As for your "stupid" remark, I'm sure you are embarrassed for having been so rude, and I want you to know I forgive you. No one is that thick.

[VPStoltz]

20. I think they (the two of them) came to mind because they have been touring.

They like to give awards to those who can show up to receive them.
It makes it look more like they are recognizing active participation.
Even if, as in the case of The Who, they should have stopped participating long ago.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

23. They did

When was the last time The Who performed live or put out an album? And yes, I know Moon and Entwistle are dead.

Granted, they did some great stuff, and I've got all the CDs, including Entwistle's, because they're wonderful. But there are people who have remained working on the music scene and who deserve any kind of recognition a whole lot more.

Personally, I think those awards are foolish; they're lobbied for and bought, just like the stars on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, where the honoree is responsible for the costs associated with the star, including its installation.

Bogus.

And, welcome to DU, VP.

:hi:

[onenote]

28. Answers: a new Who album was released in Oct 2006. And they have been playing live

regularly for several years. For example, in 2006, the band had 40 plus date tour that included more than 20 shows in the US along with shows throughout Europe (UK, Germany, France, Spain, etc). In 2007, they had a 50 date tour, with shows in the US and Europe (including Scandanavian countries). The band just finished a 20 date swing that included shows in the US and Japan (they played DC the night before election day). They are set to play a couple of shows in the UK next week and then are planning to hit Australia and New Zealand in the first part of 2009. (They also performed dates in the US, Japan in AUstralia in 2004). Their shows have been getting rave postive reviews.

And to continue our discussion from before -- while these awards, like most, are influenced by connections, etc.-- there is no evidence - zip, nada, none -- that the KC honors are "bought".

[Tangerine LaBamba]

29. Now, tell me

exactly what you mean by "evidence" that you're demanding.

Do you know how things work in this sphere?

How in the world do you expect "evidence" of something like this? It's absurd, if you're not familiar with these institutions.

(By the way, as long as John Enwistle is dead, that's not The Who. But you did a marvelous job of cutting and copyng their skimpy schedule, thereby proving my point. Ever see Bruce Springsteen's tour dates? Or Paul McCartney? Ever count the number of albums those guys put out compared to what used to be called "The Who"? Want to compare the charitable work done by these two performers compared to Townshend and Daltrey's, uh, "contributions"?)

Tell you what - label me a fool and a liar, and let that make you feel better. Trying to explain the way things work to someone who's so adept at cutting and copying and who works so hard to be "right" is, while entertaining on a "playing with your food" level, I really can't give you what you lack.

You might want to think about why my opinion of these KC honors got to you and why you found yourself working so hard to disprove something as amorphous as my opinion. There's a problem there, and you probably should address it.

For now, I wish you luck.

[onenote]

36. simple -- you claim that the award is not merely the result of connections but is "bought"

I asked for anything that would suggest that to be the case. Is it like the Academy Awards, where big ad campaigns are run to influence the process and there clearly is money flowing all over the place? Where are these ads? Who is running them? The Who's record company? Would've made more sense to buy the award back in 06 or 07 when the band had a new record. Now they don't have a current record contract,so I'm not sure who is "buying" them the award. So if you can't provide actual evidence that money is changing hands for these awards, at least make a suggestion as to who is paying it and who is getting it.

You can believe what you want. You can believe that the decision is made by aliens from outer space. BUt you can no more prove that then you can that the awards are bought.

As I've said, like any award, the decision who gets it is subjective and based no doubt on connections. If I had to surmise how the Who came to be named this year, I'd start with the possibility that Elton John, as a former honoree, and someone who has ties to Pete and Roger (remember Elton in the movie version of Tommy? Or the WHo's recording of Saturday Night is Alright for Fighting for an Elton tribute?). SOme of the other recent "pop/rock" category winners also would have reason to support Pete and Roger. Paul Simon and Pete have worked together, most famously at a benefit show in NY in the mid-90s. ANd Tina Turner also had a role in the movie version of Tommy as did Jack Nicholson, another former honoree.

As for your other questions, the answer is that I've seen all of the folks you've mentioned. I saw the Who not only with Entwistle, but with Moon. And if you don't want to think that the band touring as the Who is the Who, that's your prerogative. But as long as they want to call themselves the Who and their fans accept them as the Who, they're the Who (just as the Stones are still the Stones even though they've lost two original members, or the E-Street Band can call itself the E-Street Band even though their current line up is considerably different than the line-up that recorded their first two albums and has four members who weren't even part of the band for their break through album, Born to Run).

As for charitable work, I suspect you haven't the faintest idea about the Who's charitable work. Know anything about the Teenage Cancer Trust? The Double O charity? The FOur Seasons of HOpe Charity? The numerous shows the WHo does where the proceeds go to a charity, including a recent performance for Michael J. Fox's charity,and the show they did in October of this year in Detroit where all of the proceeds were donated to two local charities, Gleaners Community Food Bank and Focus: Hope. And that's not even beginning on the number of times Townshend and/or Daltrey have donated guitars and memorabilia to be auctioned for charity. Or the fact that all of the shows performed by the Who in 2002, 2004, and 2006 were recorded for CD and/or DVD and all of the proceeds from the sale of those recording were donated to charity?

I'm guessing you didn't know that because you strike me,from your posts, as someone who decides what they know and doesn't bother to actually try to test that decision against the facts.

And that, ultimately is what "got to me" about your post. Not that it suggested the Who wasn't worthy of the honor, which is your opinion and you are entitled to it, or that such awards are silly and reflect connections and influence, not objective merit, which is undoubtedly the case about all such awards. Rather, it was your assertion- -- as fact, not opinion -- that Pete Townshend bought this award, which is unmitigated, unsubstantiated bullshit that you can't event begin to support other than by declaring that you know it to be case. You don't know it, just as you didn't know that the who had recorded a new album and was still playing live gigs reguarly (even in your home town just a month ago).

I don't believe everything I read. But at least I read enough to be informed.

And I wish you luck as well.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

37. "... bought.."?

Honestly. I swore I wasn't going to slap you around any more, but I'm mortal and weak.

So I read your first line, and ignored the rest, simply because it's now obvious to me that you don't understand this process, have no concept of how lobbying works, and appear to be uneducable.

I wish you many happy years in your lovely little meritocracy.

:toast:

[onenote]

38. yep...bought. Forgetting your own statements already.

Here, let me remind you: "This Kennedy Center award, which is - I'm sure you're aware of this in spite of your need to cut and copy common information - intensely political, probably cost him a great deal of money."

So, who exactly did Pete pay this money to?

And it comes as no surprise that you didn't read my post -- you seem to have an aversion to learning anything -- which makes clear I don't think that awards are based on some objective "meritocracy" -- no such thing can exist when it comes to the arts. But that's a far cry from suggesting that the award was bought and paid for as opposed to a reflection of someone promoting a friend, which is what is likely the case with the KC awards.

[stlsaxman]

35. The Kennedy Center picked Townsend and Daltry.

Dude/tte- NEVER post anything negative about The Who while I am a member of DU in good standing because if you do - I will hunt you down and personally see you tomb-stoned- got me?!?!?!?

I don't care if there WERE better bands. Just don't, okay?

(i'd put a sarcasm emoticon here except i'm deadly serious!)

:)

[ronnykmarshall]

12. No kidding.

That was a stupid comment.

[Hissyspit]

6. Pete is a great artist.

His 'Lifehouse' project was an amazingly prescient and accomplished work that happens to be in the rock music genre, including themes of warning about authoritarianism. To compare him to Paris Hilton is beyond ludicrous. The Kennedy Center honors are quite valid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_Center_Honors

The Kennedy Center Honors is an annual honor given to artists in the performing arts. The Honors ceremony is one of the highlights in the cultural life of the United States. The Honors was the brainchild of George Stevens, Jr. (who remains involved), and he and his partner, the late Nick Vanoff, put together the first event in 1978. Since then, the Honors have been presented annually in Washington, D.C., during gala weekend-long events which culminate in a performance for—and honoring—the Honorees at the Kennedy Center Opera House. <1>

"Each year the Kennedy Center's national artists committee and past honorees (such as Carol Burnett and Bill Cosby) present recommendations for proposed Honorees to the Board of Trustees of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. The Honors recognize a lifetime of contributions to American culture through the performing arts, whether in dance, music, theater, opera, motion pictures or television. <2>

On eight occasions the five-person list has been expanded where a creative or artistic team or couple was selected, as was the case in two instances in 1991, where both the Nicholas Brothers and Comden and Green were jointly honored, bringing that year's list to seven. To date, including 2008's honorees, 75 Kennedy Center Honorees are still living.

The announcement is made in the Fall, with the ceremony held over a weekend in early December. The gala performance is broadcast on television between Christmas and the New Year. The 2008 honorees were announced on September 9, 2008, and the ceremony is scheduled to be held December 7, 2008. Highlights from the ceremony will be broadcast in a two-hour CBS primetime special on December 30, 2008."

[Tangerine LaBamba]

13. There are so many others

who have done so much more.

Pete Townshend has been on a campaign to clear his name after he got busted downloading child porn. He claimed he was doing "research," since he'd been an abused child. This Kennedy Center award, which is - I'm sure you're aware of this in spite of your need to cut and copy common information - intensely political, probably cost him a great deal of money. Now, though, he can feel somewhat absolved. Having lived my professional life in Washington, I'm always entertained by the outlanders who think these "awards" are simply a matter of merit.

Do you believe everything you read?

George Jones?

Roger Daltrey? Well, since the others are dead, I guess it was nice that they had each other at the ceremony.

Consider some American blues artists - still living - who were the inspiration for groups like The Who, the Stones, the Beatles, and wonder how come they're not being honored.

And, oh, yes, for her immense contributions to the humor industry, Paris Hilton.

[onenote]

15. a little education for you

After seizing all of Townshend's computers and conducting a four month forensic investigation, british authorities cleared Townshend, finding that there were no downloaded images of child porn on any of his computers. As for his "claim" (quotation marks yours) -- he had contacted an organization devoted to the protection of children from predators about what he found on the 'net long before he was swept up, wrongly, by the authorities in an overly broad anti-child porn campaign. (WHile the motivation behind the sweep may have been well-intended, as is often the case, the authorities were not that concerned about whether they caught innocent people in their efforts to catch the truly guilty -- sound familiar?)

And apart from your imagination, there is absolutely no indication that any of the awards are "purchased". Indeed, some past recipients have been rather reluctant to accept their awards. But, hey, facts are inconvenient, I get that. (I've lived my entire professional life in DC too, by the way, so if you can cite to anything at all that supports your claim that folks "buy" their Kennedy Center honors, please share.)

And I happen to agree that there are a lot of artists that deserve honoring. But the fact that the award went to the Who this year isn't out of keeping with past honorees. It would be hard to argue that Elton John (honored in 2004) was more influential than Daltrey and Townshend, or that Paul Simon (but not Art Garfunkle) wasn't influenced by other artists who haven't been honored yet.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

24. Who's naive?

Cleared, huh? That's good. I suppose in four months a lot of things could happen, and it's nice that he was absolved. Now, tell me if you believe everything you read.

If you've lived your professional life as a lawyer in Washington, then you're well aware of the lobbying that goes on for all kinds of awards, posts, jobs, letters of recommendation, and the like. I do like that you see someone's "reluctance" to accept an award proof that they are completely on the level, that there are no machinations that take place.

Can you name me one person who's ever refused a Kennedy Center award? I mean, even the Academy Award has been refused by a winner.

So, when you get your dander down and realize that your fairy dust interpretation of how things work just might be a bit simplistic, I'm sure you'll feel a whole lot better.

Personally, I'm waiting for the Paris Hilton award. Or maybe Jessica Simpson.

[onenote]

27. that's a long winded way of saying you have nothing to back up your post

First, with respect to Townshend being cleared. If you have anything -- anything at all -- to suggest that he was cleared for any reason other than that it turned out the charges against him were unsubstantiated by the evidence, please share. No, I don't believ everything I read. But unlike you, I don't just make up things out of thin air when it suits my purpose.

Second, the Honorees are selected by the Kennedy Center trustees in a process that involves recommendations from past honorees. Is there a "political" component to the selection process? As with any subjective decision making process, the answer is that there no doubt is, as those who are connected to the past winners and trustees may well have a stronger shot at making the cut than someone without those connections. Notably, it has sometimes been the right wing that has complained that the KC Honors has a "left-wing" bias (as indicated by the choice of --gasp -- Barbra Streisand). But that political component is a far cry from the suggestion you made that Townshend purchased his selection as an honoree. That is just something out of your imagination for which you have to this point provided not the slightest support.

Finally, there have been around 160 KC Honorees over the past 30 years. To my knowledge, none have outright refused the honor, although some (most famously Leon Fleisher in 2007) have expressed some reluctance to participate fully in the ceremonies because of political objections to the current resident of the White House. In contrast, there have been more than 2500 Academy Award winners in nearly 80 years. Exactly three winners have "refused" their awards: George C Scott, Marlon Brando, and Dudley Nichols. Nichols, a writer, refused because of a union dispute and later apparently took possession of his statutette. Brando refused for political reasons, although he did actually arrange for someone to accept the award. And Scott refused because he objects to awards in general.
How that history is supposed to prove that the KC Honors are bought and paid for by the winners escapes me, but I'm confident you can explain.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

30. You know what, honey?

You're spending far too much googling and waddling through Wikipedia just to try - and fail - to rebut my opinion.

Now, consider this - what is it within you that makes you go so far off the deep end simply because someone you'll never know doesn't see things the same way you do?

After that, I trust you'll be writing letters to the KC, urging them to honor Paris Hilton, Jessica Simpson, and, yes, posthumously, Keith Moon.

I release you now to go spread joy.

[Hissyspit]

18. I cut and pasted for your benefit since you didn't seem to know what you were talking about.

.. and provided no basis for what you were saying. Awards are always political and highly subjective and people always get overlooked. Being an art historian, (and, yeah, I guess, an "outlander,") I never take them too seriously at all - especially in matters of performing arts, I think the Grammies and the Academy Awards are a joke. B.B. King and Chuck Berry have both received Kennedy Center honors, by the way, although there are many more who deserve recognition, and many who probably didn't particularly deserve it. For artists, the real honor is what they accomplish, not in what others think of it.

I will acknowledge that their have been some if not many frivolous and unworthy recipients, but associating Pete Townshend with Paris Hilton is ridiculous on numerous levels, which was the main point of my post.

Do you have any evidence that Pete Townshend's "campaign," if indeed there is one, was responsible for his being nominated? Do you know for sure that he doesn't deserve to have his name cleared?

George Jones is a key figure in the history of the American popular song form known as "Country," regularly acknowledged as one of the greatest vocalists within the genre, no matter what you might think of that genre.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

25. Footnotes

You're right, of course, In my post, I should have had footnotes so that anyone who read it would know about the Kennedy Center honors. It was, after all, my duty to educate readers here and to make sure they understood that I, too, knew how to cut and paste.

You're right - as an "outlander," you probably aren't familiar with the machinations of "honors" here and everywhere else, although I note a glimmer of intelligence when you say that you don't take it all too seriously, a good stance.

Evidence? You want me to produce evidence for what I said? Now, listen closely and try to understand the process by which people are selected for those "honors." It's called "lobbying," and the whole point of lobbying is that it's not supposed to be visible.

What do you think? The Kennedy Center Board of Directors sits around and calls out names and then produces a list?

Welcome to the real world. I think it's really great that you're an art historian.

[Hissyspit]

26. You yourself said 'who comes up with these candidates!'

And you STILL haven't addressed my initial point that Paris Hilton and Pete Townshend are a ridiculous comparison.

And your insults and condensation are shitty argument.

Done with you.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

31. It wasn't a comparison

Goodness. Your reading comprehension is kind of troubling, the lack of it.

You said a dirty word. That's what losers do when they can't some up with anything else. Attack, attack, attack.

Oh, dear. You are all het up with nowhere to go.

Thank you for the laughs, though.

[ladjf]

9. The kiss was an appropriate act of political and cultural protocol.

And, as such, was not meant to be a personal expression of her feelings about Bush.

[wtmusic]

14. You mean showing respect for a man who is wholly unrespectable?

Never got that POV. IMO, it fits right in with celebrity worship.

[ladjf]

39. No. I don't think Streisand has any respect for Bush. But, she did the

diplomatic thing. (Just my opinion.)

[wtmusic]

40. The diplomatic thing would have been to spit in his face

instead she kissed a man who's responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, proving that behind all that hard-talking bravado, she's just a very talented whore.

[Indepatriot]

11. George Jones F#cking Rules

He's got more heart and soul than all the "artists" in contemporary "country" music combined. I dare you to listen to "He Stopped Loving Her Today" and tell me you didn't get choked up, if not downright tearful. We're blessed to have "The Possum" still making great music.

[Jack Rabbit]

17. It would have been better if he kissed her ass.

[Hissyspit]

19. Well, since we are speaking in hypothetical Bush actions...

it would have been better if he and Cheney had resigned from office and Streisand wouldn't have had to kiss him at all. :-)

[Politicalboi]

21. "Fool me once

You can't get fooled again"

[DebbieCDC]

22. Why even accept the fucking thing from that POS?

Wait and get one when Obama is president. Oscars and Grammies and Emmys aren't enough for her?

I'm disappointed in Morgan Freeman too.

I wouldn't take a million dollars if I had to shake that hand to get it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

32. Amen

I am totally with you on this one, just as I think it was an absurd gesture to award Daltrey and Townshend.

Frankly, I was surprised when the names were announced, but, let's face it - there are attention whores everywhere.

Just as long as Babs keeps raising bucks for Democrats....................

[ben_meyers]

33. Just when you thought you couldn't have any less

respect for Bush he kisses that! I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[ksimons]

34. gawd, she had one chance and missed it - a big 'ol SLAP - "Who said you could kiss me?!!"

Bwahahahahahaha!

Does he kiss Condi Rice cuz she's a woman and plays piano for the Queen?

Well, maybe not DOES he kiss her, but WHERE does he kiss her?

[Rosetteismyname]

41. boo to shrub jr...

Did I say Shrub jr...no I mean bush jr..

aw...i think I have it right in the title line...