TYT: Cenk's Conversation About Race With Conservative Goes Terribly Awry

[ihavenobias]

Run time: 19:37 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV4ppLfliTQ   Posted on YouTube: February 28, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: March 01, 2009 By DU Member: ihavenobias Views on DU: 6998

 
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[pleah]

1. I can't even begin to say how crazy that conversation was.

:crazy: :wow: :crazy:

[20score]

2. Wow, Elmer Fudd is an unbelievable racist. Who knew?

K&R

[MindMatter]

4. Who is this guy?

[20score]

6. First, and I hope last time I'll hear him.

But he works for Pat Buchanan and Tom Tancredo.

[ihavenobias]

55. Considering who he works for I'm shocked at his views!

;)

[Swede]

7. Check this out.

http://onepeoplesproject.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1174&Itemid=27



we focus our attention to the man who seems to be vying for the World's Second Darkest White Supremacist (Michelle Malkin will always have the top spot). His name is Marcus Epstein and he runs with the same paleoconservative crowd Malkin courts every now and then. That means whenever he is in a room with them, he is counting among his colleagues members of not just the Council of Conservative Citizens, but full-on neo-Nazis from groups like the National Alliance (yeah, they are still doing their damndest to be relevant again). Epstein's father is Jewish and his mother is Korean and he lacks the Aryan white blood, yet this idiot diligently works for neo-Nazi type racists who so dearly hate his heritage and once tried to eliminate his kind off the face of the earth. Somehow he doesn't think this isn't a problem to his bosses over at the American Cause, Pat Buchanan's outfit of which he is Executive Director. It's definitely no problem for us, because whenever he shows up anywhere, it makes our job a lot easier because he is hanging out with folks who have some sort of power in the mainstream. If you are one of these people, your credibility is shot if Marcus Epstein is around.

[ihavenobias]

9. You don't know how incredibly tempted I was to include a subtle Elmer Fudd reference.

I pulled back at the wast second.

;)

[20score]

10. WOL!

[Left Brain]

51. LOW!

:rofl:

[Wetzelbill]

16. WMAO!

[Chulanowa]

46. He might have brought out his Speew and magic hewmut!

[GaYellowDawg]

27. You mean, "unbeweevabew wacist." nm

nm

[Clintonista2]

43. LOL

I think I've sat here laughing at your comment for about 15 minutes straight

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[20score]

56. Thanks!

[Red Knight]

3. The face of the right

This is good.

Guys like Epstein and Limbaugh and Beck and others SHOULD be the face of the Republican party. They should come out of the dark, into the light and get exposed for what they are.

Rip off their hoods and show this country who these people are and what they represent.

If you let them speak long enough they can't contain themselves.

[Swede]

5. I am speechless.

Holy henfucker.

[Wetzelbill]

8. I just tried to post this, lol

I was fascinated listening to this guy. It was amazing how he couldn't just grasp the idea of meeting halfway and seeing the other side's point, even just for a second. Cenk even told him what he was looking for, then tried to coax him a little,... then a little more and he still couldn't say it. It didn't even register with him. That's interesting.

[sam sarrha]

13. he would have to hand in his Bigot's Decoder Ring if he gave any credence at all to civil rights

[Wetzelbill]

15. it's amazing that this guy is Asian and Jewish

Republicans so do not get irony, not at all.

[Seldona]

11. 'Terribly Awry.'

What a polite way to put it.

lol

[targetpractice]

17. "Tewibwy Awhy."

I kept thinking of The Princess Bride... "Wacism. Wacism is wot bwings us togevah todai."

[rambler_american]

35. No more Princess Bride refs. I mean it.

Anybody want a peanut?

[ihavenobias]

18. Someone at TYT.com emailed Countdown to suggest Epstein for Worst Person In The World

http://www.theyoungturks.com/story/2009/3/1/18533/41587/Diary/Marcus-Epstein-Worst-Person-In-World-Nomination

Good idea.

[matthewf]

12. k&r

[trthnd4jstc]

14. I had the pleasure of speaking with a psychologist that worked with the Army in the 60's

There is no difference the rate of crime from middle class to rich, from black to white. But, there is an increase of criminality amongst people who are desparately poor. Facts. Mr. Epstein talks about facts. He talks about half-truths, when he is right, which I did not notice in this 20 minute interview. I believe the higher rates of blacks and hispanics per capita in prison has to do with the fact that as a group in our population, their groups are poorer, and cannot afford a lawyer, and that they are members of the out-group, being that most prosecuting attorneys and judges are white, and racism is still alive amongst many whites in the in-group. Facts!

[Kajsa]

19. I really DON'T understand how

ANYONE can NOT see the offensiveness of using an ape,
and/or a watermelon patch in the White House front lawn
as BLATANTLY racist.

These guys didn't just emerge onto the scene, they've been
in the US for at least the past 30 years, right?

This is a big put on. They know better, and are trying to
cover their racists butts.

Gimme a break!

:eyes:

[Raineyb]

28. He sees it. He knows how racist it is. He just doesn't give a damn

Not surprising since he works for PatricKKK Puckanan and Tom Tancredo.

Another racist asshole. And if he thinks being half white will protect his ass he's sadly mistaken. When worst comes to worst the people he works for will turn on him just as quickly as they'd turn on my black ass.

Regards

[Kajsa]

31. You're right, Raineyb.

They don't care and that's a big part of the problem.

:(

Best regards to you, my friend.

:)

[OhioChick]

20. K&R

:kick:

[suzanner]

21. emotional maturity of a 10 y.o.

have I ever heard such lunacy? only from pre-adolescents when they think no one is listening but their equally intellectually deprived buddies

[Ladyhawk]

22. I wonder if half Asian / half Jewish people have a higher incidence of speech impediments? nt

[windoe]

23. Elmer Fudd,, Porky Pig

and the Jindal guy.....wish someone would say, "That's All Folks!" and call it a wrap.

[Quantess]

24. And somehow, he doesn't think he himself is racist.

In his case, wacist.

[Turborama]

25. Fortunately, I could hardly make out what he was saying most of the time

But what I did manage to work has left me speechless. I've tried, but I can't come up with any constructive comments about that dialogue apart from saying that Cenk handled it very well and a heck of a lot better than I would have.


:kick: & R

[autorank]

26. OMG This guy is both racist and anti-intellectual k*r

He'd throw in arguments and statistics that were blatantly racist and then fail to produce on the sourcing.

Why bring up someting you can't prove, something that's scaring in the public dialog? Because the agenda
is clear, promote racial tension.

If Vidare doesn't fire him, they should be ashamed.

As for Charles Murray's " Bell Curve " - the book alone shows his antipathy to blacks but the shoddy presentation
and assumptions presented on flawed evidence and a weak case. There was a thorough refutation of his work, yet
this guy brings it up.

There are plenty of people on the right who are not at all racist. Lets talk to them. Idiots like this, disinfo
specialists who slip in trash then talk it, should be called out immediately and sent packing.

That was difficult to watch but I'm glad I did. It reminded me of what the subsidized right wing "think shops" and
information sources are - a mockery to informed dialog.

[lonestarnot]

29. He onwe wike white wabbits. Appwenwee they taste bettwer. Who knew.

[ihavenobias]

34. I reject and denounce your lack of maturity and sensitivity!

Shame on you! And you call yourself "progressive"? No jokes ever about anything, unless they're of the knock-knock nature. Actually, you better run those buy us too, just in case.

Sincerely, the PC Police.

[lonestarnot]

54. So sowweee.

:evilgrin:

[spamlet2002]

30. "not everything is an allegory for racism"

lol, it's like epstein is incapable of being at least a platonic remove from acknowledging that some things are just plain racist.

all he is doing is filibustering and meandering to what resembles this point: when he calls you the n-word, he means it in the fraternal sense. weak debate and horrible speaker

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[theblasmo]

33. I say this with all seriousness

Stop insulting Elmer Fudd.

[Hutzpa]

36. Someone with a name like that

saying such despicable things, how naive and ignorant can you get, this is what happens
when parents forgets to tell their children's where they came from.

They forget to mention when they came from Europe or elsewhere they had to work twice as
hard and you should never underestimate your fellow human beings.

I'm really pissed by his assertion but I would refrain from typing because if I say whats
on my mind it would turn into a flamebait.

[muryan]

37. Email

[e-mail]

[ihavenobias]

39. Is that email open to the public?

Don't get me wrong, the guy is clearly horrible on the issue of race, I'm just not crazy about airing his email *if* it's supposed to be private.

So I'm asking the question because I don't know.

[muryan]

57. It took me about 10 seconds to find it

So, its not exactly private.

[Jefferson23]

38. Cenk's unlikely to get anywhere with this guy. This was written by Marcus Epstein in 2003:

Myths of Martin Luther King

by Marcus Epstein

There is probably no greater sacred cow in America than Martin Luther King Jr. The slightest criticism of him or even suggesting that he isn’t deserving of a national holiday leads to the usual accusations of racist, fascism, and the rest of the usual left-wing epithets not only from liberals, but also from many ostensible conservatives and libertarians.

This is amazing because during the 50s and 60s, the Right almost unanimously opposed the civil rights movement. Contrary to the claims of many neocons, the opposition was not limited to the John Birch Society and southern conservatives. It was made by politicians like Ronald Reagan and Barry Goldwater, and in the pages of Modern Age, Human Events, National Review, and the Freeman.

Today, the official conservative and libertarian movement portrays King as someone on our side who would be fighting Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton if he were alive. Most all conservative publications and websites have articles around this time of the year praising King and discussing how today’s civil rights leaders are betraying his legacy. Jim Powell’s otherwise excellent The Triumph of Liberty rates King next to Ludwig von Mises and Albert J. Nock as a libertarian hero. Attend any IHS seminar, and you’ll read "A letter from a Birmingham Jail" as a great piece of anti-statist wisdom. The Heritage Foundation regularly has lectures and symposiums honoring his legacy. There are nearly a half dozen neocon and left-libertarian think tanks and legal foundations with names such as "The Center for Equal Opportunity" and the "American Civil Rights Institute" which claim to model themselves after King.

Why is a man once reviled by the Right now celebrated by it as a hero? The answer partly lies in the fact that the mainstream Right has gradually moved to the left since King’s death. The influx of many neoconservative intellectuals, many of whom were involved in the civil rights movement, into the conservative movement also contributes to the King phenomenon. This does not fully explain the picture, because on many issues King was far to the left of even the neoconservatives, and many King admirers even claim to adhere to principles like freedom of association and federalism. The main reason is that they have created a mythical Martin Luther King Jr., that they constructed solely from one line in his "I Have a Dream" speech.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/epstein9.html

[windoe]

40. Ironically in actuality it is the hate filled intolerant type personality,

that is the greatest threat in this diverse society. We waste SO much money in surveillance of perfectly innocent peaceful people, so much would be saved if hate groups were watched more closely, and people who inspire them.

[Dubiosus]

41. I wonder

why NOBODY sees the connection between the headline which has been put over the article above the

"cartoon"!

If I remember correctly it was something with "prince of Hollywood". Doesn't anybody think of the

"Fresh Prince", reading that?

In my eyes there is a clear connection as it jumped to my attention every time I saw it.

The picture of Will Smith was there immediately and for me they are kind of comparable,

aren't they? Kind of sublimshit of the worst kind!

tow cents

:freak:

[rambler_american]

42. Oh those Wascally White Wingers! n/t

[paulkienitz]

44. First he talks about taking personal responsibility, ...

then he refuses to take responsibility for what he's trying to communicate. Wants to say it without saying it. Will neither confirm nor deny what he means to get across. Dude, what are you, seven years old now?


I've noticed in general that those who make a big deal about saying "I believe strongly that people should take more personal responsibility" are NOT the ones who are actually taking much themselves. They just like to tell others they should. Which makes sense, I guess -- the more others take, the less they're left stuck with.

[fascisthunter]

45. another oblivious right wing dork

[florida08]

47. hard to take this guy serious

keep hearing in my brain...'shhh..be vewy vewy quiet..I'm huntin' wacist wumors

[LiberalLovinLug]

48. Unmitigated gall to deny history

So if this jerk went to work in a white robe and pointy hood, and people took it as he was a supporter of the KKK and racism, it would be THEIR problem for interpreting his own innocent style choice. If someone pointed out the history of that get up and the baggage that comes with it, he would counter with examples of other white robe and pointy hat uses in the past and that black people over react because he really just wore it because the robe felt comfortable and nice to wear and the pointy hood? ...it kept his hair unruffled.

The right NEVER meet half-ways if you've noticed. It's like pulling teeth. Cenk was bending over backwards to just have him acknowledge how that cartoon MIGHT have been taken as a racist slur by some people. Eegads. Obama is experiencing that "no quarter" mentality first hand himself. That stubborn demeanor was pasted all over the smirking chimps face for eight long years. (Yeah chimp - It can be used as a slur if it is not painting a whole race, but only applied to a man who does not appear to have evolved much more than an ape)

That demeanor is a weakness for Republicans but also a great strength. It works wonders on their idiot base. If they never admit wrong, (and trying to come half-ways in an argument IS admitting wrong to them) then that means, to their idiot base, that they must never be wrong! Its all so easy.

[MellowDem]

49. Some of my thoughts on responses here...

It is interesting. This guy is half Korean and half Jewish, yet he is referred to some on here as 'white'. Just an interesting note on how we divide race.

Another thing some have said is how they're surprised that someone like him could be racist, being from a mixed background. The thing is, a mixed background doesn't mean you can't be racist. Both of his parents could have been very racist for all we know. I've known of very very racist Asians who look down on blacks and consider their race to be supreme. Or just look at Japan, probably the most racist developed nation out there.

As for him being Jewish, some people assume that their experience as a people in the Holocaust would make them never harbor such thoughts themselves. But the truth is, once again, there are racist Jews. I've met them. One of my orthodox Jewish friends would talk in ways that kind of creeped me out. He would talk about their view of the end times, and how the Jews, as God's chosen people, would rule over the rest, and we would "happily" be their servants. He actually said this to me! It was strange that he didn't realize that he was preaching a form of racial superiority to me right then.

So basically, everyone can be racist. What is considered "white" racism and supremacy is not the whole story, though that is what we mainly think of and what is mostly covered in the US due to our history. In many ways, "minority" racism has been tolerated and ignored to the point that it has become acceptable. That is probably how this guy got his job. They figured his mixed background would excuse the filth coming out of his mouth.

A lot of people (not on this board per se) simply laugh off other racial supremacists from races that aren't white, which I think is a mistake. It's the exact same message and should be exposed and attacked the same as with white supremacism. Many think that such movements in the US are 'cute novelties' because whites have all the power, but really, they're just as dangerous and just as responsible for keeping ideas of racial superiority alive. A lot of these movements have blended in with "cultural pride" to look innocent, which is probably the most frusterating part about it. After all, that's what white supremacists did and continue to try to do, the thing is, we know it when we see it when it comes to white racism. Time to do it for all racists as well. Treat them as one group. Some of these hate groups even work with other hate groups of people they purport to hate!

[AlbertCat]

52. This guy is half Korean and half Jewish, yet he is referred to some on here as 'white'.

Just an interesting note on how we divide race.

*************

I know. Jewish? A race? Didn't we clear that up last century?


And who is complaining that every depiction of a monkey or ape is racist? We're complaining about a "joke" with a dead ape who apparently wrote the stimulus. It's quite clear and quite specific. "Elmer" can sight all the examples of apes in cartoons from the turn of the 19th century if he wants. We're talking about this one cartoon in this day and age at this time. Take your "doth protest too much" straw-man outta here.

I know. perhaps I could draw some cartoons about a penny pinching Korean Jew who owns one of those Korean BBQs that serves dogs and cats. C'mon! It's a joke! It's not about all Jews or all Koreans! Besides, what's the likelihood of there being a Korean Jew anyway?....


Oh...I'd better... :sarcasm:

[MellowDem]

53. Many still consider Jews to be an "ethnicity"

I've always thought of it as a religion though. But the orthodox guy I knew definitely considered them a separate entity, being God's people and all ;)

[vaberella]

60. That's not the reason...

I wonder if you're getting that phrase word of mouth or if you're editorializing. Their considered an "ethnicity" of sorts post WWII and the massive diaspora of them from Germany and other parts of the world to the US and other areas. OF course this has been building for years because of the prejudice the particular religion has faced throughout the centuries. They have been expelled out of Spain, they were mistreated and abhored in England hence the reason even Jack the Ripper was believed to be Jewish. They were of course rounded like cattle and killed in mass numbers in Germany but Russia hated them as well. Hence the reason Russian Jews are given benefits for political asylum. Even in the US before WWII and during the 18th Century they were expelled from town to town as because of they have a strong network and were able to prosper as a group. Except in England in which and in most cases they were thrown in filthy ghettos.

[vaberella]

59. Actually the idea of Asian and racism is a bit different.

Japan is not racist the way you think. They do believe in a level of cultural superiority but its not necessarily a racial thing. As for Koreans, they are basically very pro their own race. It's very very very rare for someone Korean to marry outside of their race. And for them to do that, you'd expect a very different personality...since Koreans are not fans of biracial children by any stretch of the imagination. Of course with the youth that's a bit different. As for the Chinese they tend to be a bit more open to most people and just have major cultural issues. China has been known as the country to basically envelope people and "change" them than the other way round. It depends solely on how you identify and interpret social constructions but in many East Asian cases it's not a racial thing but a cultural thing.

As for Jews...on some levels you're right.

You are simplifying minority racism. It is a response to racism they endure. On a daily basis do you know that many Blacks and just minorities in general need to prepare themselves for what they will experience in the outside world. Further more it can't be called racism because Minorities don't have the socio-political capital to oppress people. Minorities are the ones that have been systematically oppressed for decades and in some cases centuries. This is why there is such thing as institutional racism. What do you think it's about? Why do you think it's there? It wasn't White women who were sterilized en masse as a form of genocide, more popularly known as eugenics. It wasn't White men who were lynched...and who are still lynched. No, that little luxury is reserved mainly for Black men and it still bloody well goes on to this day. AS for the story this man was saying about Black on White rape...people like to think Black women don't get raped by white men...most of the time they don't get reported. I don't even want to get started on how many Black women have probably been raped since the times slaves have come here until this day by white men...people like to ignore that sort of shit too..like it didn't happen and still doesn't happen. I know horror stories that would turn your head of what some of my Black friends endured and just don't want to talk about in the north and south by White men...they just don't say shit because they believe that most of society will say they wanted it and it was a fake.

Further more minorities as a group don't make up the population density or even have the economic capital to even act out racism. Sure there are racializing elements but there are direct elements here that you like to skew to make your point.

"cultural pride" when you're told your dirty shit on a regular basis. When they sold bleaching cream because you're seen as ugly with that skin color. You have no idea of the effects of the by products of racism has done to minority people. You need to look up internal oppression and colorism to get a clue.

Don't get me wrong in the most minute cases you may be right...however overall and in the case of the Americas there's a bit more complexity going on that you choose to ignore.

[dem mba]

50. that got painful at the end

i couldn't finish the interview, haha.

[vaberella]

58. It's shit like that fool is swaying that makes us "COWARDS"

Blacks need to get over it.<---What the fuck?!