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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:29 PM
Original message
TYT: Is Obama Breaking The Same Laws Bush Did?
Edited on Wed Apr-08-09 04:30 PM by ihavenobias
 
Run time: 04:53
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu5OhONi15c
 
Posted on YouTube: April 08, 2009
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Posted on DU: April 08, 2009
By DU Member: ihavenobias
Views on DU: 2136
 


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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. So who's side is Obama really on?
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Equality4all Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Democrates spying is okay.
If the Obama supports the Bush administration's policy of warrantless wiretaps it is because he has a good reason for it (unlike Bush) Obama and his attorney general will not abuse that power like the Bush administration. I trust Obama. Besides, so long as you are doing nothing illegal you have nothing to fear from a warrantless wiretap http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/obama-doj-worse-than-bush
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. If I hadn't clicked on your link, I would have misunderstood completely!
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yy4me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you Cenk, What is going on is an abomination. I'm about
to give up on all politicians. The "change we can believe in" is hollow. We're up against too big of a machine.
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sattahipdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. No explanation?
Senate Republicans are planning to “go nuclear” over the nominations of Dawn Johnsen as chief of the Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice and Yale Law School Dean Harold Koh as State Department legal counsel if the torture documents are made public. The source says these threats are the principal reason for the Obama administration’s abrupt pullback last week from a commitment to release some of the documents. A Republican Senate source confirms the strategy. It now appears that Republicans are seeking an Obama commitment to safeguard the Bush administration’s darkest secrets in exchange for letting these nominations go forward.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Are-Republicans-Blackmaili-by-Scott-Horton-090407-699.html

Obama should go nuclear himself by immediately releasing all the memos, then recess-appointing Johnsen and Koh.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. So, he is just going to bow down to the thugs.
I thought Obama had a backbone, guess I was wrong.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. You and me both. n/t
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sattahipdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. Call on the U.S. Senate to confirm Dawn Johnsen
Tell the Senate Filibuster is NOT an Option https://secure.prochoiceamerica.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=3639


backbone? How do we restore our nation's honor, as well as our own?

Posted Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:17 AM | By Dawn Johnsen
Here is a partial answer to my own question of how should we behave, directed especially to the next president and members of his or her administration but also to all of use who will be relieved by the change: We must avoid any temptation simply to move on. We must instead be honest with ourselves and the world as we condemn our nation's past transgressions and reject Bush's corruption of our American ideals. Our constitutional democracy cannot survive with a government shrouded in secrecy, nor can our nation's honor be restored without full disclosure.
....
A Republican Senate source confirms the strategy.

Call on the U.S. Senate to confirm Dawn Johnsen.

https://secure.prochoiceamerica.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=3639
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Thanks.
:)
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. That's a great commentary.
I see more and more parallels between the Obama administration and that of Engelbert Dollfuss who preceded Hitler and who, along with his successor Schuschnigg, prepared the way for the invasion of Hitler and the NAZIfication of Austria. Dollfuss and Schuschnigg were viewed as moderates. They feverishly crushed the left (which was far more to the left than the American left) and established a dictatorship. I do not think that Obama, in his wildest dreams, would ever want to establish a dictatorship. Far from it.

But, Obama is so unwilling, so unable to respond with strength to the extreme right in the United States that he is, perhaps unwittingly moving further and further to the right himself. I believe Obama sees himself as a moderate (as did Dollfuss initially), but Obama does not seem to stand up strongly enough for moderation. He is abandoning commitments to civil rights issues -- to privacy issues and to the promise that no one is above the law -- in order to appease the right.

I admit that I see history through the prism of my knowledge of German history, but we need to keep that history in mind as we go through this terrible economic period which is so similar to the period that preceded WWII.

I quote from Wikipedia:

Dollfuss became Chancellor on May 20, 1932 as head of a coalition government, with the pressing goal of tackling the problems of the Great Depression, in a state (post-Versailles Austria) that was economically disadvantaged by the loss of a large part of the former Austro-Hungarian empire's manufacturing industry situated in Bohemia and Moravia. Much of Austria-Hungary's industry had been situated in the areas that were separated into Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia with the Treaty of Versailles, and thus this manufacturing power was lost to Austria after World War I. Dollfuss's majority in Parliament was marginal (he had only a one-vote majority).

Dollfuss as dictator of Austria

In March 1933, an argument arose over irregularities in the voting procedure. The president of the National Council (the lower house) resigned to be able to cast a vote as a parliament member. As a consequence the two vice presidents, belonging to other parties, resigned as well to be able to vote. As a consequence, the parliament could not conclude the session due to formal reasons. Dollfuss took the resignation of all three presidents as a pretext to declare that the National Council had become unworkable, and advised President Wilhelm Miklas to issue a decree adjourning it indefinitely. When the National Council wanted to reconvene days after the resignation of the three presidents, Dollfuss barred entrance to parliament by police force, effectively eliminating democracy in Austria. From that point onwards he governed as dictator by emergency decree with absolute power.

One motive of Dollfuss' actions was that with Adolf Hitler becoming German Chancellor in 1933, it looked increasingly likely that the Austrian National Socialists (DNSAP) would gain a significant minority in future elections. On the other hand, the Soviet Union's influence in Europe had increased throughout the 1920s and early 1930s. Dollfuss thus banned the DNSAP in June 1933 and the communists later on. Under the banner of Christian Social Party, he later on established a one-party dictatorship rule largely modelled after fascism in Italy, banning all other Austrian parties including the Social Democrats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engelbert_Dollfuss

Obama needs to fight against extremes on both sides. Generally, for leaders in his situation it is easier to crush the left than the right. (Of course, the situations are quite different because the left in Austria and Germany was more militant that is the left in the U.S -- at least so far and hopefully in the future.) In crushing the left, leaders tend to go too far because it is so easy and makes them look strong at a time when the nation calls for strong leadership.

During the Bush administration, frustrated left-thinking Americans read books and wrote. Now that the right-wingers are frustrated, they are buying guns and ammunition (which they have the right to do). The problem with that is that the left (and I am using that term in a relative sense because Keith Olbermann is hardly really "left-wing" in the traditional European sense), is just so easy to beat up. Taking on the right is harder. Obama, wishing to unite the nation for common goals is more likely to compromise the issues dear to the left because it's just easier.

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Schuschnigg

See also the very interesting book, The Lost City in which John Gunther tells the story of the events in Austria in the early 1930s from the perspective of an American reporter in Vienna, Austria. The writing is not the greatest. The first chapters are a bit slow to get into, and there are a lot of cultural references that may confuse the American reader. In addition, Gunther introduces a lot of important characters and resolving the issues of so many characters is maybe overly complex for such a novel. --

Nevertheless, the book is well worth reading because the parallels to our country and our time are just uncanny right down to the financial fraud, the bank failures and the cover-up and complicity of politicians.
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. Another great book is "Defying Hitler" which is a diary of those same pre-WW11 times.
The similarities are uncanny, and even the mildness of Obama is similar to the calm before the Hitler storm. He is leaving in place a time bomb of laws just waiting for the next happy little fascist to take advantage of. Obama is either, naive, arrogant, or genius. I have been visualizing genius, but feel foolish at this point. I am so proud of our left wing commentators who critisize both Bush and Obama when it comes to our 4th amendment rights.

I do not understand the right wing feer over the right to bear arms, yet if we had our privacy and the sanctity of our homes, bearing arms would become our business.
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overit Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. YES HE IS.
I couldn't agree with Cenk MORE... every single word! I already wrote to Obama and told him I cannot and will not support him on this at all and I too feel so let down and disappointed. And it's not a matter of "if you are not doing anything illegal, then don't worry about it". I'm NOT doing ANYTHING ILLEGAL, I just STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THAT POLICY. I don't want ANYBODY in MY BUSINESS, unless I ask them to be in it.

Perhaps "THEY" should let us listen in on THEM; maybe we would be able to prevent all the corruption.
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amyrose2712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. It all depends on what they decide to make illegal...
I hate that argument.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Listening in on them could be devastating.
Some folks have argued that Dems were listened in on by Bush and blackmailed for their own or family member's mistakes and maybe that information is still being held over people's heads. It's easier for me to believe that conservative and weak Dems are responsible for our party's failings.

I agree with Cenk too, welcome to DU : )

Policy and Constitution first.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. NO more accommodating illegal actions.
Obama's administration hopefully when the court battle is over will accommodate those who have been abused by these illegal acts.
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
14. After 8 years, I thought I was too exhausted to continue
to be pissed off. I was wrong! And he's lecturing North Korea about consequences and laws, etc??! Good luck with that.
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blublu Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. ditto
too angry to express myself.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
15. Obama is damaging his own administration covering George Bush's ass.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
18. Yeah but
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
20. And former SC Senator Fritz Holling argued that if Bush is a war criminal, so is Obama.
It's frightening how fast the awesome power of the presidency has seemingly corrupted Obama.
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matthewf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
22. k & grrrr
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
23. Turley warned before Obama even took office that he would be saddled with Bush's crimes

If he failed to hold him to account...

This is worse. He isn't just not holding the Bush administration to account. He is expanding on their criminal behavior.

Gross. Really gross.
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pauldg0 Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
24. Man Cenk, I know your upset....
.....but it seems like Obama is doing a lot of little things for the people that are very noticeable.

If you think he is up to no good, that's fine. But do we really know the finer dynamics of the whole picture.

Would everyone just cool down???!!! There was a post just yesterday that said many people (in our party) are just over-reacting for Christ's sake. He's been Prez for less than One Hundred days and all of you are getting ready to to fucking jump off a cliff.

We don't know of all the dynamics.......you think everything has to be done now. Maybe he has to take two steps back before he takes three steps foreword. I noticed that about Obama that when someone gives him a brain rattling question, he knows how to step back before he talks. He never responds quickly.....this man is a genius. Take a deep breath and let the air out slowly.....eeeFFFFFFFFFFFFFEEEEEphhhhh. Now wasn't that nice?

By the way this man has checkpoints all around him ....the good, bad and the ugly? If we have for example Elizabeth Warren in visible site, I'm sure we have other watch dogs too around other problem areas.

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20score Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
25. It's inexcusable, as was his vote on FISA in the summer. KO had a good analogy on this,
"it's okay if I rob your house as long as I don't spend the money." The Constitution and adherence to principle are more important than any one person. I'll continue to support Obama in most things and am still ecstatic he's president; but when he's wrong - and he is hugely wrong here - then he needs to hear from us. Period.

K&R
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