Rachel Maddow: Obama Clashes w/ Activists at WH Meeting - 'No Prosecutions of Anyone in Bush Admin'

[Hissyspit]

Run time: 09:10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evCeWcRJxSg   Posted on YouTube: May 21, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: May 21, 2009 By DU Member: Hissyspit Views on DU: 5517

 
MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show - May 20, 2009: **BREAKING NEWS**- On The Rachel Maddow Show, Michael Isikoff reports an off-the-record secret meeting at the White House today with Obama and AG Eric Holder and human rights activists. Obama announced, emphatically, "There will be NO prosecutions of anyone in the Bush administration" and "No 9/11-type commission either."

MADDOW: "Tonight on the eve of that speech we have information exclusive to this show to report about an off-the-record meeting that happened today between President Obama and leading human rights and civil liberties groups at the White House. Although the meeting was off-the-record, we can report that the President was told by a member of one of those groups that he is alllowing President Bush's policies to become his own. We can report that President was demonstrably not pleased with that characterization."

INTERVIEW with Newsweek's Michael Isikoff who is the source of this reporting:

"He started out the meeting by complaining at one point about the mess he had been left by his predecessor, and when some of these ... human rights groups raised this he was quite clear he didn't like it, it wasn't helpful to equate me with President Bush."

MADDOW: "Let's take a specific example, one of the specific issues, the subject of torture prosecutions, the possibility of maybe a truth commission, or a commission of inquiry of some kind on to the issue of torture. Your sources are telling you that the President remained firmly against pursuing any of those things at this meeting today. But is there any sense of what his arguments are to defend that sense, or is it still just this generic assertion that we need to look forward and not look back?"

ISIKOFF: "The President had a somewhat different explanation for his resistance for that. He talked about all the Congressional investigations going on, the litigation going on, and said it was too distracting to his staff, that too much time was being taken up. He actually looked directly at Attorney General Holder who was present at the meeting and indicated that Holder was having to spend too much time on this issue. Now some of those present have made the point that that's the reason to have a 9/11-style commission - instead of having many Congressional investigations, have one Presidentially-backed commission with subpoena power that can do all this. And the President didn't necessarily reject that, he but raised this issue of a distraction, too much time."

"Then after that one of those present raised the idea of A criminal prosecution, even one criminal prosecution as a symbol, sort of, a trophy, I think the word was used, to show that such conduct, for torture, would not be tolerated again. And the President sort of curtly dismissed the idea, made it clear he had no interest in that. What was interesting about that is his attorney general, again Eric Holder, sat there silently and didn't say a word. The President could have said..."

MADDOW: "Right. That's..."

ISIKOFF: "The President could have said that's Eric Holder's decision to make, but he didn't. He seemed to cut it off."

MADDOW: "That's exactly what I was going to interject to say. That seems like the biggest news here. If the President has publicly said 'listen, this is up to the attorney general to decide whether or not it is appropriate or not to pursue criminal investigations and prosecutions. This is not a political matter. This is a law enforcement matter and the Justice Department does not work for the President, it works to enforce the laws of the United States.' And then he is meeting with people who are advocating investigations and prosecutions and answering on behalf of his attorney general, that's news, because that would imply that what he is saying in public and what he is saying behind the scenes are not at all the same thing."

SAM STEIN'S HUFFINGTON POST REPORT ON THE MEETING:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/20/obama-huddles-with-human_n_206104.html

In an interview with the Huffington Post, Massimino detailed what she described as a "lively and detailed and serious" discussion on some of the days most vexing national security issues. Over the course of roughly an hour and fifteen minutes, Obama, along with Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, Attorney General Eric Holder, advisers Valerie Jarrett and David Axelrod, foreign policy hand Dennis McDonough, and counter-terrorism chief John Brennan, held court with a group of academics, as well as officials with the ACLU, Human Rights Watch, and the Center for Constitutional Rights.

- snip -

Asked whether the president had pacified some of the concerns she brought to the White House on Wednesday, Massimino said that she was pleased with the opportunity for engagement. Beyond that, she still registered concerns.

"I think that many of us were disappointed by the announcement about the military commissions and wondered what the reasoning was behind that. And to be honest, I am still wondering having been in this meeting today. I don't think that this fits the overall framework that the president had articulated about using our values to reinforce a counter terrorism strategy against al Qaeda."

[polichick]

1. Thanks - this is the segment I missed.

[sakabatou]

2. That's incredibly dissapointing

It also pisses me off.

[G_j]

3. and scary... nt

[defendandprotect]

4. Good decision for Obama . . . no risks . . .

Bad decision for America --

Bad decision internationally re human rights/Geneva Accords --

Bad decision for trying to reestablish human rights centered negotiations --

Bad decision as a message to the world . . .

to our military leaders -- to our soldiers -- !!

[glitch]

12. Bad decision for restoring confidence in USA, including economic.

It's all inter-connected.

[defendandprotect]

13. Yes . . .

And, then there's the argument that this would all be a "distraction" from
other serious things that have to be done!

:evilgrin:

[beltanefauve]

103. Almost word for word

what Gerrald Ford said when he pardoned Nixon!

[Dinger]

15. Oh Boy, I'm Gonna Get In Trouble For this, But What The Hell . . .

Is that like voting "present," nice and safe-like.

[The Hope Mobile]

88. Let him know!

Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: [phone]
TTY/TDD

Comments: 202-456-6213
Visitors Office: 202-456-2121

[bertman]

96. Yeah, Dinger. Only worse. Way worse.

[MannyGoldstein]

5. No Shit?

He's already said this in many different ways. His AG signed off on outsourced torture under Clinton - this being the case, how serious could Obama possibly be about torture and war crimes?

No drama uber alles!

[nevergiveup]

6. Seems like there are two different

reports with different slants coming from this meeting. You can select the slant that best suits your favor. Personally I am glad he is meeting with and hearing out liberal activists.

[The Hope Mobile]

83. But is he really listening? He said he would but its looking very dubious.

[dgibby]

7. To paraphrase Craig Ferguson, it's a sad day for America.

[snappyturtle]

8. Let me get this straight or tell me if I have misunderstood:

I understand as of now that the executive is not only directing the SCOTUS not to hear the Plame case but also to dictate who cannot be prosecuted for falsely leading the nation into war, torture, etc. or investigated under the guidance of a commission...am I correct? I hope I am wrong. If I am right, I want my vote back.

[tavalon]

60. Obama doesn't get to direct either to do anything

He is stating that his position is that these things shouldn't happen.

[bertman]

97. tavalon, I think you are being very very naive if you think what President Obama said

in that meeting isn't going to have a chilling effect in DOJ.

[PFunk]

9. Oh Crap. But I've been expecting something like this.

I'm just surprised that it took this long to happen. Still if this is true, AND if this keeps up then I see the dems losing in 2012 (especially if the repugs get their act together). The last thing Obama needs is to PO'd the dems left wing base-especially now.

[jimlup]

11. Well he seems to be succeeding...

But frankly he can take the left for granted. The heart of the problem in the country is that the left is always "all in". We can't lay down our cards and go home. We never have a viable alternative. We are intelligent enough to do the mainstreams bidding for fear of the alternative. It seems the right on the other hand, is perfectly able to pick up their cards and go home because ultimately, they are stupid. Unfortunately, this seems to work against us.

I guess the only solution is to keep speaking truth to power... wish there were more...

[Old Time Pagan]

22. a viable 3rd party would be nice n/t

[Bette Noir]

28. My fantasy is that the Republicans die out,

the Dems stay right where they are, and become the (relatively) conservative party, and another far-left party springs up to maintain the two-party balance.

I'm old enough to remember when the Republicans were moderate and the Dems were proudly liberal. Those two have shifted so far to the Right that there's room opening up for a whole 'nuther party on the Left. (Like when car makers keep making their cars bigger, and then introduce new, smaller models to keep up with those of us who like our cars small. I had an Accord in the '80s that was smaller than the Civic I drive today...)

[BlueMTexpat]

48. Today's Democratic party is in many respects the Republican party

of the 1950s. Yes, I remember those days too.

It's interesting that in France, Sarkozy is considered the candidate of the "right" and his policies are clearly to the left of the Democratic party in the US today.

If the slant on this story is true (someone upthread mentioned another slant, but I didn't see a link), then Rahm Emanuel really is running the show. And the Dems really are turning into Republicans.

I love your fantasy! :hi:

[Lorien]

101. The Tories in Britain consider our Democratic party to be as conservative

as their own. As one Londoner told me "you have no Left in America".

[BlueMTexpat]

102. It's the same for the French.

Sarkozy is the candidate of the "right" and even he is to the left of Obama. :hi:

[Why Syzygy]

51. Great fantasy.

Who do we lefties support? We go for the "most liberal Senator" (Obama's nic during the election), and LOOK AT WHAT WE GET?

[PuraVidaDreamin]

56. Can I share your fantasy?

I'm afraid things are just going to have to get far worse for the average man on
the street before this becomes even an idea.

[glitch]

69. That's my fantasy too! Maybe if enough of us have it, it will happen :) nt

[The Hope Mobile]

75. Yes, the Integrity Party since the GOP certainly doesn't have that

and apparently our guy doesn't either anymore.

[Ken Burch]

86. To get that, we need an electoral reform movement...a American Chartism

This can be done through initiatives at the local and state level.

[The Hope Mobile]

87. White House Contact information!!

Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: [phone]
TTY/TDD

Comments: 202-456-6213
Visitors Office: 202-456-2121

Lets tell him before everybody's too PO'ed.

[Mari333]

10. he was upset because he doesnt want to be equated with Bush?

tough shit. he better wake up and smell the coffee. every dem I know is disgusted right now and many say they wont vote for him again if he keeps this up.

[glitch]

14. Not being equated with Bushies is fairly easy: hold them accountable.

Let them skate (especially if they return in 2012) = Obama might as well be a bushie for all the good he is otherwise.

Also: for God's sake get better economic and environmental advisors.

[Why Syzygy]

52. Barack Bush...

I don't know how any true liberal can still follow him around like a puppy.

[The Hope Mobile]

76. Same here! nt

[Garbo 2004]

16. HuffPo has an on the record interview with an attendee (from Human Rights First)

who addresses Gitmo, military tribunals, "transparency" issues that were discussed at the meeting.

As far as I can see, she makes no mention of what Isikoff reports re: no investigations or prosecutions of Bush Admin's various illegal activities including torture. That omission seems strange in a fairly lengthy article based on an interview from someone who was there. It would have seemed that the bombshell Isikoff reports would have merited at least a passing comment from a human rights activist. Perhaps that wasn't her primary interest and so not what she discussed in the interview. But it still seems a bizarre omission by a human rights activist of what Isikoff characterized from his sources as a Presidential declaration that there would be no investigations of gov't wrong doing in the very subjects discussed at the meeting.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/20/obama-huddles-with-human_n_206104.html

[pschoeb]

25. That would be because Human Rights First are big Obama supporters

The President(and founder) of Human Rights First is Michael Posner, who is now Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights and Labor in Obama's administration.

I'm guessing Massimino doesn't want to make too big of waves for her boss

[Garbo 2004]

27. Ah, interesting. Well other folks appear to be talking to media about the bombshell & "ruminations"

but so far not for attribution. Thanks for the insight on HRF.

[livefreest]

17. time to start a rebellion right on the Obama site my.barackobama.com

Obama strangely is caving to repubes in the military. why? the repukes' criticisms didn't hurt him when it came to stimulus package or the budget. few Americans believed them. so what's going on? it's time for a rebellion on Organizing for America

[Why Syzygy]

53. Donate to the ACLU

They are the ONLY ones fighting for civil liberties and justice. I don't donate to "Democrats" any more.

[davidswanson]

79. yes but don't say only

list of groups fighting the good fight here:

http://prosecutebushcheney.org

[livefreest]

92. thanks for this list

[livefreest]

91. yup! nor do i

[Wednesdays]

18. K&R

:kick:

[firedupdem]

19. delete

[daughter of liberty2]

20. I really don't get it.

The majority of the country wants an investigation into the torture issue, so why shy away? :shrug:

[enough already]

21. I don't get it either

The VAST majority want these criminals tried at the Hague and locked up forever. Obama is really pissing me off. Why is he covering for these pigs?

[Old Time Pagan]

24. My suspicion is

that a REAL investigation would reveal enough guilt to cover both sides of the aisle in feces. Mutual Assured Destruction keeps both sides from pulling the investigation trigger.

The only real answer is to toss them ALL out (with a very, very few notable exceptions)and start over with a clean slate.

[MarjorieG]

23. Obama said no to symbolic prosecution, not generally, although not eager. The left loves symbolism.

I think there are really difficult problems reversing ome of this stuff, and quickly. He doesn't like executive orders at all, and wants procedures and laws governing this.

Soory, but tired of the left thinking this easy to do, and all at once.

[digidigido]

26. Marjorie, the problem is it was so easy for the right to screw everything up that

the left wants things done to make it right. I don't envy Obama, but I'm losing my respect for him, and that's deadly
for him and the country. He won on hope, if he doesn't deliver he risks a generation of disinterested jaded people
who believe politics is just showbiz. He has the chance to be a transformative leader or a 1 term loser. It's up to him

[Why Syzygy]

54. I just hope he

lives up to ONE pledge. Not to run again. We need another shot at it.

[Bluenorthwest]

81. That is what I worry about too

All those voters he excited will be utterly jaded. And will never vote again.

[iamthebandfanman]

29. corporate democrats. n/t

[The Hope Mobile]

89. Say something!

Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: [phone]
TTY/TDD

Comments: 202-456-6213
Visitors Office: 202-456-2121

[tomm2thumbs]

30. Wondering if the silver-tongued one can pull it off Thursday - we'll see

He's done some pretty amazing damage control but this one has been festering for more than a couple weeks so it isn't necessarily going to respond to the same ol-same ol. I'm guessing the last thing Obama wants to do is anything to undermine his values, but if he is truly playing a game to get some other campaign promise through 'for the greater good', he needs to remember the campaign is over and he'll have some recovery time to make 'the hard choices' sooner rather than later.

'Staring into injustice does not bring truth - the glare only wilts the soul's ability to feel the injustice. '

Here's hoping that truth survives. We can live without health care, but we cannot live without a soul.

[Lorien]

31. America is a Nation without laws..

for some, anyway. Get caught three times with a bag of weed and stay in prison for life. Lie a Nation into war, order unlawful torture, and kill over a million innocents (among dozens of other crimes) and retire peacefully to a well appointed estate.

[paulsby]

70. complete rubbish

show me ONE person who was thrown in prison for life for being caught three times with a bag of weed.

cite a case.

what kind of bag are you talking about?

a bag the size of a 747?

and a guy with a bunch of OTHER felony convictions doesn't count. i'll go out on a limb and say that nobody gets sentencecd to life in prison for 3 convictions of possession of MJ.

[The Hope Mobile]

77. The more important point is the imbalance of justice. If politicians

and corporation are completely untouchable we're completely screwed.

[paulsby]

80. i agree with that

i just hate the NORML propaganda (i'm for decrim/legalization of drugs btw...) that is almost as bad as the anti-drug propaganda, and much of it has to with their claims that people are routinely jailed imprisoned for possession of MJ

then when you actually look into the CASE FACTS (god forbid) you see that these claimed cases all evaporate.

like when a guy has 3 prior violent felony convictions, is on parole and is caught with a lb of marijuana. sure, he's gonna go to prison for a long time.

[Lorien]

100. "three strikes you're out" law here in Florida

use the Google.

[pam4water]

32. Yes how dare they take up his precious time with war crimes! Hah?

[bjobotts]

33. 1st We don't need a commission.They would only 'gum it to death'

[bjobotts]

34. We need a special prosecutor.More than enough evidence has come forward

[bjobotts]

35. It's not about policy, it's about holding people accountable for breaking the law

[bjobotts]

36. If his children were raped he wouldn't be too distracted to deal with that

[bjobotts]

37. So it clearly is a matter of choice.Obama needs to allocate responsibilities to Holder

[bjobotts]

38. Where are the new USAs? Why is Stevens(who is guilty) off the hook but

[bjobotts]

39. Siegleman(who is innocent) is still being railroaded(he was shackled like a serial killer by this ju

[bjobotts]

40. We don't want a 'trophy' we want accountability and justice.Obama is following Bush policies

[bjobotts]

41. Rham is incapable of getting Obama to see this.Yes he walked into a big pile but

[bjobotts]

42. The stench can only be gotten rid of with sunlight and disinfectant.

[bjobotts]

43. Obama wanted the job...well here it is.Appoint somebody to get it done

[bjobotts]

44. Like you said and indicated you would.All the world knows these guys should be in prison

[bjobotts]

45. We will be known as the US of Hypocrisy.This is what the terrorists are making us face

[bjobotts]

46. Our own hypocrisy of what we say we stand for and what we actually do

[bjobotts]

47. You're our only hope Obi-Wan-Kanobi.The change we believed in

[dreamnightwind]

49. We've been had

More and more Obama appears to be an impostor.

[tavalon]

61. No, he's just really, really wrong on this issue and it's up to us to make sure he knows

[Fiendish Thingy]

64. um, I thought that was what this meeting was for...

Progressive, constitution respecting organizations presenting our shared views to the President, who rejected them out of hand. So, now he knows how we feel, and now we know that he is firmly, apparently immovably, against restoring the rule of law, and holding those who dismantled the Constitution accountable- "too distracting".

[tavalon]

65. He's been known to change his mind before.

[The Hope Mobile]

78. YUP - so true!! nt

[BeGoodDoGood]

50. Just Damn

"Your sources are telling you that the President remained firmly against pursuing any of those things at this meeting today. But is there any sense of what his arguments are to defend that sense, or is it still just this generic assertion that we need to look forward and not look back?"

Just damn.

Walt

[Why Syzygy]

55. "Too much TIME" ..

it would take too much TIME. Jurisprudence takes TIME!

[mikehiggins]

57. This is why we need Bob Graham

An exact report would be nice. SOmeone with a book of notes of what actually took place is what is needed. Recollections, impressions, interpretations all depend on who is doing the watching.

There is no doubt that O is not doing what we would have him do, and that this will indeed come back to bite him on the ass, and not as far away as 2012 either. WHen the grass roots wilt, and the money machines grind to a halt, the Dems will be looking far and wide for a means of holding on to our precarious "lead" in the Senate (the one that just refused funding for the Gitmo closeout). There will be no one else to blame but our leader.

If he gets his health care program into law it will look good on paper but his desire to be a truly transformative leader will be undermined by things like this. If we approach 2012 with a health plan acceptable to Blue Cross/Blue Shield, and a still operating Gitmo, and no accountability for what happened since 9/11 and so on and so forth, the Obama administration will have failed, and that will be the legacy he leaves behind him.

No drama, no success, no legacy, no point.

Still, even as he ticks us off, he's still better than those other guys.

[pleah]

58. K&R

[LatteLibertine]

59. Well to quote Ventura

"No, I don't care about their welfare(Terrorists). I care about what our country stands for."

The people who ordered these things, as well as those that carried them out, ought to be prosecuted.

[Stuckinthebush]

62. Sadly, I'm beginning to get disgusted

I think he'll be a one-termer if he keeps this up.

[Titonwan]

63. Tell Obama he's wrong.

We need outrage for this! K&R We're going to lose all the battles if we don't win this one. Watch.

[democracy1st]

66. great info thanks for this

[zipplewrath]

67. Chess master

Sure would like some of the chess master folks to come around and explain this one away.

[lostnotforgotten]

95. Ah, Grasshopper - Mr "O" Thinks 10 Moves Ahead, Even If The Moves Are Not Real

eom

[spiritual_gunfighter]

104. I think the chess master arguement is played out by now

Anyone still saying that is choosing not to accept reality.

[florida08]

68. what is Eric Holder

working on that is more important than this? Gitmo..Medicare fraud? Too distracting is an argument? Many of us here have believed that Obama was stepping out of the way..playing a game of chess so to speak to allow the law to do it's job. This dispels that theory. I know he has a lot on his plate but we also know it's not his fault. Maybe he believes that our knowing they broke the law is enough. Maybe it will have to be...but it won't stop the republicans from attacking him nor will it help to bring them over to his side. Just don't buy this "too distracting" complaint. Maybe in time he will come to see how important it is. We desperately need jobs for our citizens..and now. Health care is going to be a huge battle..but this shouldn't just be ignored by saying we're turning the page..the page is burning.

[truedelphi]

71. How were we to know that in 1974, when Sam Ervin was

Attempting to topple Nixon, that we were seeing the last vestige of Democracy in America?

Too bad we are only a Banana Republic - without of course, having to even bother growing the bananas!

[dreamnightwind]

72. Those crazy activists again

Obama to activists: "There was one issue which consistently placed high on the list of netroots activists, and that is torture and accountability. Kinda tells you how tortuous it must be sitting in front of a computer agitating for your pet causes all day. I mean, there were no crimes here, only genuine effort to protect our country. What have these people been smoking? Probably those same people who advocate for the legalization of marijuana".

No, he didn't really say that. but this looks to be another moment that provides great insight into our president, as was the crazy netroots and pot smokers moment awhile back.

Can we fire this guy yet? These activists are the people doing the real good work in this country, and they're certainly not the people Obama should be fighting.

[The Hope Mobile]

85. Calling all activists - even armchair activists!

Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: [phone]
TTY/TDD

Comments: 202-456-6213
Visitors Office: 202-456-2121


Let your voice be heard. He asked us to do this - lets take him up on it.

[EFerrari]

73. While I will do everything I can to make sure those bastards are prosecuted,

I understand that Obama doesn't want his presidency consumed by their mess and in a way, it breaks my heart that Obama's time in office has to be spent cleaning up after these @ssholes.

[ima_sinnic]

74. again today he said "we are a nation of laws"--like he thinks he can fool us with that now

sorry, I fell for that before the election. once conned, twice shy and all that.
good luck in 2012, I WON'T be voting for you, and I know many, many others who won't either. if a republican wins because we either didn't vote, or voted Green or some other 3rd party--well, you should have fed your base instead of those warmongering corporate assholes you've surrounded yourself with.

[placton]

82. Yay Obama!

DU supports each and every decision you make!! No need for reasons! We love you!!

[The Hope Mobile]

84. Can we get some activisim going here??

If we're all this disappointed, lets do something about it. I just posted White House contact info in general discussion. Lets let him know. Its our job/responsibility as citizens.


Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: [phone]
TTY/TDD

Comments: 202-456-6213
Visitors Office: 202-456-2121

[bertman]

98. The Hope Mobile, your commitment to the cause is inspiring. I will call and write, as

I have been doing since election day.

Thank you for the numbers.

[The Hope Mobile]

99. Thanks!! I just think/hope they can't ignore us if we inundate them with

our concerns.

I have 4 children and I want them to be able to love and be proud of their country too.

Thanks for tolerating the "enthusiasm" I felt today.

[1955doubledie]

90. Thanks for the link

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out the next few weeks.

[leveymg]

93. "Too much of a distraction" from what? The process of handing the banks more money?

I'm losing patience. He hasn't done much at all other than allow everyone to project their own hopes on him.

That too shall pass, if he doesn't get his head out of Wall Street and pay attention to Main Street and the Progressive Grass Roots that form his firmest constituency. If he loses us, nothing much else is going to matter, is it?

[lostnotforgotten]

94. Obama Supporters - Many Of Us Told You So - Obama Has Truly Become Bush Light

So Sad, So Sad!