Jon Turley explains just how wrong & misguided Obama's 'indefinite detention' plan is to KO

[ProfessorPlum]

Run time: 05:58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOLMsxXqdvg   Posted on YouTube: May 24, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: May 25, 2009 By DU Member: ProfessorPlum Views on DU: 2899

 

[dipsydoodle]

1. Nothing real beats

a common sense point of view.

[babylonsister]

2. Yawn. KO, get some new blood. Show me another prof

who agrees with Turley. Thanks.

[leeroysphitz]

5. So let me get this straight.

For the last four + years Turley has been consistently and demonstrably right calling the Bush admin on it's complete lack of regard for the constitution time and again but when he (quite correctly IMO) calls the Obama admin out now all of a sudden he needs to go?

Wow. Listen to yourself.

I guess Kool-aid now comes in two flavors. Enjoy.

[TankLV]

6. It's not only WRONG - but it's creepy too - this WORSHIPING of Obama, no matter WHAT he does

even when it's WRONG and ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OPPOSITE of what he SAID he'd do...

and in some ways SICKENING...

[babylonsister]

9. Yea, kool-aid. That must be it.

Is there not another professor/lawyer in this country who shares Turley's opinion? If so, I'd like to see and hear him. Is that so difficult?

Notice I didn't disparage what he's saying, you did. Have another sip! :eyes:

[Mithreal]

13. Subtle and weak ad hominem. nt

[jgraz]

15. Yep, you definitely got it straight

Kind of sad to see the herd mentality take over here, isn't it?

[babylonsister]

17. Seems like there's a Turley-loving herd.

Works both ways.

[jgraz]

18. No there are people who *agree with what he says*

We don't count the number of times he's on teevee or try to divine how much he loves our president. We listen to what he says and we decide for ourselves.

[Piewhacket]

21. I agree with Turley.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=316507&mesg_id=316574

[NorthCarolina]

26. Thank you for the "sanity check" here n/t

[spiritual_gunfighter]

39. It was very easy to jump on the "Bush is destroying the consitution"

train wasnt it, I know, so did I because he deserved it. But when Turley holds the current president to the same standard, it's time to disparage Turley. Wow you aren't transparent are you.

[WonderGrunion]

25. If Turley offered an alternative solution for Obama...

I'd have more respect for him. He had no solutions of his own to offer, just empty criticism of the Obama administration.

[Senator]

28. The "alternative solution" is to abide by and enforce the law.

Obama has adopted the core bushcheney/beltway paranoia -- about how to treat "evildoers" on both sides of the permanent "war on terra."

The notion that our founding principles, our Constitution, and the treaty promises our greater generations made have suddenly become "quaint" and have now failed us -- that we must create "special purpose entities" (like Enron and the Banksters), rather than abide by their collective wisdom and experience -- is the core delusion that will continue to eat like an acid through our social fabric.

---

[leeroysphitz]

37. How is this for an alternative? Follow the damned constitution. Or how about acting like we are a

nation of laws and doing the right thing? If I had wanted more "make it up as you go along" jurisprudence I would have voted for McCain.

Who did you vote for?

[spiritual_gunfighter]

40. He is a law professor

He opines on things according to the law. He isn't there to offer solutions for the Obama administration. I am guessing Obama doesn't need help.

[Canuckistanian]

8. Yes, he does seem to be the only one out there

Why not Glenn Greenwald? He was a constitutional law specialist. Or maybe even John Dean or Bruce Fein?

I think this gives the impression that only ONE person is waging a lonely war against unconstitutional acts.

[babylonsister]

10. KO does have John Dean on frequently, but you get my

drift. I'd like to hear from someone else who doesn't necessarily always believe the sky is falling, while proving the point Olbermann is proving. Maybe less drama.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

41. If you don't think "indefinite detention" isn't a big deal

I wonder what is a big deal, "sky is falling" scenerio to you. I used to respect you and your posts, you just lost me.

[snowdays]

3. I am so glad Turley is speaking out and KO gave him the space to do so.

[flyarm]

12. me too! I thank Turley from the bottom of my real Constitution loving heart! eom

[snowdays]

4. thanks for the post.

[ro1942]

7. gitmo

they fear that the world will fine out what we did to the prisoners, most of them guilty of nothing.

[flyarm]

11. emptywheel on Indefinite Detention

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/24/feingolds-opposition-to-indefinite-detention/#more-4201

Feingold’s Opposition to Indefinite Detention
By: emptywheel Sunday May 24, 2009 2:22 pm 6


Man, I love Russ Feingold. Here's the letter he sent Obama to lay out his opposition to the notion of indefinite detention. (h/t dday)

He perfectly explains why indefinite would be a dangerous precedent.

He leaves out just one thing here--the possibility that our own government will start rounding up Americans as terrorists and indefinitely detaining them. If animal rights activists can face prison for exercising their free speech under the Animal Enterprise Terrorist Act, after all, then it's not a stretch to envison PETA members indefinitely detained.

Feingold also issues a clever warning when discussing his opposition to Obama's suggested use of military commissions to try detainees:

Like you, I voted against the Military Commissions Act of 2006. I agree with you with regard to that statute's many flaws, but it is not clear to me that those flaws can be fixed, or that the other options in the current federal criminal justice and courts martial systems for bringing the detainees to justice are insufficient or unworkable. If Congress is to fully consider your proposal for military commissions, therefore, it will need access to the same information your administration is currently reviewing, including detailed, classified information on individual detainees and the extent to which other options are available.

SNIP:
I suggested yesterday that Obama's consideration of indefinite detention (and I'd say the same about military commissions) is an attempt to bury evidence of our own crimes. I'm guessing maybe Feingold agrees. He seems to be suggesting that Congress can only legislate new military commissions if the Administration shares the evidence--all the evidence--with all of Congress.

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/24/feingolds-...

[Mithreal]

14. I am glad we have someone as level headed as President Obama

to manipulate habeas corpus in such a way that it makes us safer.

I am sure we will never have anything but level headed leadership during his administration and any future Presidents should have the right to indefinitely imprison people without charging them. Republicans have certainly learned their lesson and if they ever again possess the executive branch would never think of abusing such a new power. You can trust Presidents and politicians not to abuse their powers.

The sky is not falling.

:sarcasm:

[flyarm]

19. excellent post..your sarcasm is noted!!! and agreed with entirely! eom

[cooolandrew]

16. The Prez is letting me down in some areas but it's confusing as it's like he has a split personality

One day he'll do something awesome the next it's like nothing ever changed. Well the change is where the people step in. Looks like the days of activism are far from over or ever will be. He may be willing to walk a wrong path but as long as folks point him back the right way this still can be a very historic presidency. It's still very important that we oppose him in constructive positive ways, the very last thing we want is lowering approval and a swing of the poltical pendulum the wrong way. If folks really need to vent the better place than DU is direct to Whitehouse.gov. Keep his momentum going but also let him know we're also watching.

[Mithreal]

23. If you are not telling someone who can do something about the problem then you are just complaining.

I call and write the White House and agencies. I seldom get the impression my concern is heard. Of course, I understand I am just one voice in millions.

Should we not scream over injustice, unnecessary war, twisting the Constitution, and other crimes against our democracy. Should we only do it in the dark and alone.

Everyone on DU wants President Obama to succeed, just not every policy choice of his. I would rather all venting and ranting be out in the open where it can be challenged.

I get what you are saying about HIS momentum, what about OUR Progressive momentum?

[Piewhacket]

20. I agree with Turley. I thought Obama would be a change. Apparently not.

Saw a poll of 80 lawyers asking whether they thought
prosecutions for torture should go forward.

Half said YES.
Half said no ( but they consisted of repukliens and other obvious idiots).

If it were merely a legal question, we would be filling our
prisons with war criminals.

Unfortunately it is a political question. But realizse that
isn't enforcement of the 'rule of law', it is the opposite.
And THAT is what Turley is explaining.

[ChiciB1]

22. Once Again I HAVE To Thank KO & Turley... Regardless Of ALL The Name

calling of BOTH of them, AND Rachel Maddow... it IS WHAT IT IS!! How it has been twisted and turned in so many ways HERE AT DU, is something I don't quite understand.

I don't plan to argue the same argument over and over again, so call me a COWARD because I'm not going to "explain" WHY I believe the CONSTITUTION should be upheld!!

I wonder if those in POWER & even THIS Administration really understand how much of a nerve this hits home to millions of people around the world???

[WonderGrunion]

24. Turley is a weasel

Olberman asked several times what the administration should do with prisoners that we can't try because of Bush administration torture and not once would Turley give a straight answer or legal opinion. I agree that there is little good options available to the Obama administration on this, but to simply complain that Obama is failing without offering any alternatives smacks of how the Republicans are treating Obama on the economy.

[Bushknew]

29. Turley says they should be tried in federal court. I thought he was clear as day.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

27. A dim sun menu indeed

A lot of stuff on those carts is unpalatable, too!

K&R

[Ozymanithrax]

30. It is not misguided...

If implemented, it is a warcrime and tyrany.

[jeff30997]

31. I totally agree.

Thanks for posting the video ProfessorPlum.Recommended.

[JayMusgrove]

32. OK, I'm a liberal, but I don't want my family killed by

some nut who claims a Constitutinal right to kill them.

Please explain wow idiot fascist taliban or other folks who breathe the same air as you and I have the right to freefom to kill us, while we protect our Constitution.


I want all killers and plotters arrested legally, and I know a few of them will get through the system and threaten my aunt or your aunt.

So you want to make sure we keep these guys free until our justice system can legally arrest and confine them?

Commnts, some reason why illegal seizure of DNA and other evidence should be excluded? Tell me how many aunts and cousins you want to make sure are OK being dead while we defend our Constitution, and you people let men and women and children die, while you defend a document most idiot taliban don't understand. Tell me how this works.

The US Constitution, best civil libertarian document ever in the history of mankind. We should make sure the people who believe in the are killed with bullets and bombs by people who are protected by our Constitution?




I say there is one rule that works in nature, same rule applies to men and women who do understand justice, for everyone else, I have no human compassion..sorry if this makes me the worst DUer here. I hope you write to me, tell me how awful I am.

[ProfessorPlum]

33. You seem to accept the proposition that each of these people

held wants to kill you. If they are involved in a criminal conspiracy - if the government can actually PROVE that - then they can be tried for conspiracy to commit murder, conspiracy to destroy property, conspiracy to etc., etc.

If the government can't PROVE that these men aren't involved in criminal conspiracies, then all we have is the government saying over and over that they want to kill Americans. That's nice, but it isn't good enough.

The world is a dangerous place. I believe that our law enforcement and intelligence services can protect us without locking people away forever on insufficient evidence. Your mileage may vary.

[Stinger2]

34. Bush, Cheney, Rove, Newt a couple media outlet heads should all be in prison

I remember a country that just didn’t scoop people up without evidence and then keep them indefinitely. Another fine mess thought up by the people that brought you the second great depression.

Bush, Cheney, Rove, Newt a couple media outlet heads should all be in prison waiting trial or be held until the Iraq war is over!

[humbled_opinion]

35. STOP THE MADNESS

I think sometimes some on this very forum would rather BUSH be back in the White House for a whole host of reasons. I just don't get it sometimes.

[Ozymanithrax]

36. Bush No. A President who follows the rule of law? Yes.

I want a President that treats the law as something other than a door mat to wipe his feet on. Holding people indefinitely without a trial is what King George did, the one in England that inspired the colonist to revolt.

Bush violated the law when he did the same thing. People on this very board called him a war criminal and a tyrant for the same act. If its good for Bush its good for Obama.

[Mithreal]

38. Ridiculous, those people are quickly tombstoned, but think what you will. nt

[Wednesdays]

42. K&R

:kick:

[WonderGrunion]

43. Jon Turley explains just how wrong & misguided Obama's 'SCOTUS pick' plan is to KO

Tonight on MSNBC. :eyes:

[CBR]

44. and how Thurgood Marshall was not an intellectual. nt