Howard Dean weighs in on MosqueGate...a real affront to people who lost their lives

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Run time: 01:59 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2GzuAw46Os   Posted on YouTube: August 18, 2010 By YouTube Member: breitbarttv Views on YouTube: 304   Posted on DU: August 19, 2010 By DU Member: Amerigo Vespucci Views on DU: 1441

 

[muntrv]

1. Howard Dean opposes mosque, Ted Olsen supports it. Bizzarro world.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

3. Yep. It's been a real interesting day.

Whether it's built or not, it's really enlightened us about the post 9/11 world.

[midnight]

8. I don't think he opposes it, but because of the difficult cultural

situation he thinks that another site would be a better idea, but he doesn't say he opposes it.

[TomClash]

10. Difficult cultural situation?

Huh? For whom?

[lenegal]

2. What????????

Dean opposes the mosque????????

[Tansy_Gold]

4. The only question to be asked is this

Do they have a legal right to build their building there?

If there are no legal impediments, then they have A RIGHT -- get that, Dr. Dean?? -- A RIGHT to build it.

If you, Dr. Dean, even suggest to them that they cannot or they should not build their building, then you have denied them their RIGHTS. Kinda like saying yes, those black folks have a right to buy that house in the white neighborhood, but they really shouldn't, you know, for their own safety. You know damn well it's not for "their safety" at all; it's for your racist sensibilities.

The courts have upheld the RIGHTS of the Phelps clan and Westboro Baptist Church(?) to protest at the funerals of fallen soldiers. If the Constitution protects despicable scum like the Phelps, it also protects THE RIGHTS of Muslims in Lower Manhattan.

STFU, Dr. Dean. RIGHTS are RIGHTS. Get off the TV and go watch some Tim Wise.


Edited to add your own words, Dr. Dean: If that ground belongs "to all faiths," then it belongs to Muslims, too, and they have the right -- the RIGHT, damn it -- to build their community center with its space for prayer. You know damn well you wouldn't be saying this if the families and friends of Jewish victims of 9/11 wanted to build a temple or if some group wanted to build a christian chapel. Your racism is showing: you just don't want A MOSQUE there, and you're cloaking your racism in bullshit.




Tansy Gold, your friendly neighborhood atheist who's mad as hell but NTY

[mrbarber]

7. So if Muslims want to build there it's a "community center"

But it's a Temple or a Chapel if a Jew or Christian wanted to build there.

Because-big shock-it IS a Mosque. I'm not saying it's good or bad either way, but let's call it for what it is. It's a place of worship that has a community center attached to it, but it's still a place of worship.

[BlueMTexpat]

17. Please inform yourself.

At least one mosque has existed in the area for years - even before 9/11. Gasp!

This area is specifically intended to be a community and education center although part of it will be used for overflow from the mosque that already exists nearby. So your understanding is exactly backwards. It is a community center, part of which will occasionally be used for those who cannot pray at the mosque because there is no room there.

[Tansy_Gold]

21. I personally don't care if it IS a MOSQUE.

Do they or do they not have the legal right to build it? Meaning, do they own the property? Are they conforming to building codes and zoning restrictions such as apply to ALL builders of buildings in that area?

If they have the LEGAL right, then any attempt to deny them that right simply on the grounds that it is a Muslim place of worship is bigoted bullshit.



TG, who is sometimes so angry she can't even type her own initials let alone her whole name, but still NTY

[leftynyc]

26. That's crap

Saying they shouldn't build there in no way is saying they don't have the right to do so. Everyone (with some limited exceptions) have the right to have a gun - if they have young children in the house or someone with a hot temper, they shouldn't have it and that in no way infringes on their right to do so. Can you and should you are too completely different things.

[sabrina 1]

5. How disappointing. He is literally accusing innocent people

of being somehow connected to a crime they had nothing to do with, other than the fact that they are Muslims. This is bigotry at its worst and I cannot believe that Dean has joined the ranks of the Islamophobic far right skin-heads on this.

I think he needs to rethink his position on this or lose a lot of respect from people who expected more of him. It is no small issue, the scape-goating of anyone because of their ethnicity. We know how that has worked in the past when good people remained silent. And here is a good person not even doing that, but throwing fuel on the fires of hatred and ignoring the Constitutional rights of all Americans.

Shame on him for this, and kudos to Ted Olsen for getting it right ... and to the President.

[still_one]

14. No question about it, and most likely he is taking the media's misrepresentation as fact /nt

[EFerrari]

25. I literally don't see how you take that from his statment.

His point seems to be that the mission of this center is a failure right out of the gate if it is established with all this rancor swirling around it. He didn't single out Muslims or Islam for that matter in any way.

Now, a case can be made that the planning of this community is not his business. Or that the center is not even at the WTC site. But I don't see how one can be made that Dean is somehow holding this congregation responsible for 9/11 when he has nothing but good things to say about them and their mission.

Maybe I'm just too biased or dense or tired or something but I'm not following this time.

[Karenina]

27. Beth, was integration a failure out of the gate because it was established

with rancor swirling around it? :shrug:

[EFerrari]

28. Right, but that's the point Dean is making right or wrong, and not

that these people are responsible for 9/11. I'm not agreeing with him, but just want to get clear what it is I don't agree with. :)

[Karenina]

29. Growing up as I did in the good ol' US of A

It's like having a white friend of YEARS utter the n-word. For him to even suggest that a demonized minority need "respect the sensibilities" of a rabid dominant culture is simply STUNNING to me. Bro done tazed me. :cry: I WAS NOT expecting that. Call me stupid.

[EFerrari]

30. No, I won't!

:hug:

Not what I expected from him, either. I hope he has a moment of clarity.

[JHB]

6. You realize the video is from Andrew Breitbart's YouTube page, right?

Even if the clip is 100% accurate (can't take that for granted, after all, this is Breitbart), why feed the beast?

[Amerigo Vespucci]

9. I realize it now that you've pointed it out...

...but I pulled the link from Huffington Post, so they are really the ones to answer the feed the beast question. I didn't post the clip because it came from Brietbart. I posted it because other DUers have been posting the text version of his statements.

If that's not Dean in the clip, and he didn't say those things, I retract the post without hesitation. If it's edited or a lie, prove it to me, and I'll retract it.

That may not happen because Huffington Post just posted the following:

Dean Stands By Mosque Remarks, Charges Liberal Critics With Being Inflexible

First Posted: 08-18-10 08:01 PM | Updated: 08-18-10 08:24 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/18/dean-stands-by-mosque-rem_n_687049.html

In an interview late Wednesday, former DNC Chair Howard Dean reiterated his belief that the controversial "Ground Zero" mosque should be re-located, arguing that critics of his position were "guilty of" the same type of absolutism on the issue that they've accused Republicans of harboring.

The former Governor of Vermont told the Huffington Post that he "stood by" the remarks he had made earlier in the day on WABC radio in which he called the mosque plan "a real affront to people who lost their lives ." But in a clarification of sorts, he stressed that he would not have a problem if the proposed Islamic cultural center ultimately ended up being built in the current location.

"It won't upset me," Dean said, "except I think it is a missed opportunity to show some flexibility... I don't believe all this nonsense the right wing is putting out about radicals and all that stuff. I take the congregation at its word that it is a moderate congregation trying to heal the wounds of 9/11. But the best way to heal the wounds is not to have a court battle, but to sit down and try to work things out."

As Dean explained, the purpose of the Ground Zero mosque -- which is, in essence, to promote cross-cultural reconciliation -- became irrevocably compromised once the controversy began bubbling around the project. This is no fault of the planners behind the Cordoba House, Dean acknowledged. Nor was there any debate that the constitution was on their side. But that didn't nullify the argument that they would be better served to sit down with city and state officials to find an alternate site less objectionable the critics.

"They don't have to move," Dean said. "But the fact of the matter is, for better or worse, since 9/11 this country has been badly divided -- particularly by right wing politicians exploiting those divisions -- and this is an opportunity to bring the country together."

Dean's sentiments put him in, what surely seems like, rare political standing. The former DNC chair is not the first Democrat to oppose the current location for the Cordoba House. But he is the first critic to hail from the progressive community that, by and large, has viewed the debate over the mosque as a litmus test of sorts for a politician's commitment to constitutional rights and religious tolerance. Indeed, when Dean's viewpoints were broadcast, it was met with a mix of horror and anger from, what usually are, his chief defenders.

"I've seen a lot of the comments about this and a lot of it is silly that I'm agreeing with Sarah Palin or Newt Gingrich," Dean said in response to the criticism. "That's just silly. I don't believe in race baiting..."
Story continues below

"The battle lines have been drawn so firmly on every issue that when the right says 'X' the left has to take the opposite position," he added. "This seems like one issue where if you have a congregation that wants to make things work and want to bring America back together again then why don't you do that."

So...once again...if what I just posted is a lie, post the link that proves it and I will respectfully retract it.

:patriot:

[Drunken Irishman]

12. Dean Charges Liberal Critics With Being Inflexible...Oh the irony!

[sabrina 1]

23. Well, we all know that rightwing teabaggers are so flexible!

[JHB]

16. Sorry, no accusation of you intended...

...merely pointing out the source of the clip. Hadn't seen the other commentary, and anything from Breitbart naturally raises an alarm bell.
:hi:

[Amerigo Vespucci]

18. I learned that the hard way with Sherrod...

...like a lot of other people, until the story broke that he'd edited the clip, I had no way of knowing. I took the clip at face value and posted it in Political Videos when it was hot off the press...I just didn't know it came from Brietbart's press. I soon found out.

No harm, no foul...I know you know where I'm coming from.

:hi:

[sabrina 1]

20. Wow, that doesn't sound like the Howard Dean I thought I knew at all.

I read his words over a few times, and what he is basically saying is that there is no legal reason, no Constitutional reason, more moral reason why those people should not build their Community Center right where they intended.

Then he says the country has been divided since 9/11 and we need to be sensitive to that???? How come these top Democrats are never asking for sensitivity to the feelings of those who are RIGHT?

I am so sick of this. He is bending over for the rabid right and he acknowledges it. He makes no good argument for his position other than that the right's feelings are offended, which they are not. It is FAUX outrage!!

Are they all drinking some kind of water in DC that poisons their thinking?

I have lost a lot of respect for him. This was an easy decision. Catering to the right in this country is just sickening and that is what he says he is doing and he is legitimizing their faux 'cause'.

We lost two neighbors on 9/11. And no one I know has a problem with this mosque. Whose feelings is he talking about?

[midnight]

11. Good info. to be aware of.

[still_one]

13. Sorry to say but it sure sounds like Dean is misinformed, and has been believing the

so-called "news" media's account of the situation

Does Dean realize that there is a Mosque already IN THE AREA?

Does Dean realize that this is more a center than a Mosque?

Does Dean realize that this wasn't an issue a year ago, and it ISN'T AT ground zero but several blocks away

For all the good Howard has done, he has also been uninformed on some of the issues, and I personally believe he is assuming the media's account of things, which he should know after what they did to him when he ran for President is not to be trusted

If my assessment is wrong, then I will be even more disappointed in his view

[BlueMTexpat]

19. My guess is that Dean has been so busy campaigning for candidates on

real issues that he isn't even aware of the full ramifications of this media-ratcheted-up controversy. So I, for one, will respectfully disagree with him, but also give him a pass.

I must admit that when someone first mentioned this project to me, my initial reaction was that if there were any building constructed at Ground Zero, it should be multi-denominational where ALL beliefs were represented or there should be none at all. However, once I informed myself about the situation, realized that the site was private property owned by the developers and NOT situated at Ground Zero, that the building is NOT a mosque - except on occasion - and was supported not only by the New Yorkers themselves (the local planning committee supported it wholeheartedly) but also by members of 9-11 families, I had no problem with it. Even some conservative pundits (e.g., Laura Ingraham) supported it before they were against it.

Either we are a multi-denominational country that respects rights for all or we are not. It's as simple as that.

If we are not - and given the number of threads on this misbegotten subject, it seems that for some we are not when the religion is Islam - then we have gone far astray from the vision of our Founders. Osama bin Laden and his murderous thugs have succeeded beyond their wildest imaginings.

[still_one]

24. I won't give him a pass, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt /nt

[rainlillie]

15. Like it or not the people who are building the Islamic center are just as American as the Dean ...

Palin and all the other critics out there. You can't say you believe in religious freedom and then add BUT.... either you support the constitution or you don't. This debate is like people debating on whether parents should feed their children... of course they should and there shouldn't even be an argument. It's amazing, truly amazing and infuriating that people in this country who love to talk about the terrorist hating us for "our freedoms," are trying themselves to take away the freedoms of other Americans.

[Swagman]

22. maybe a mosque, church and synagogue side by side

[Karenina]

32. Have you ever set foot in Lower Manhattan?

:eyes: Thanks for sharing.

[NJmaverick]

31. Shame on Howard Dean and his bigotry

[BeyondGeography]

33. Howard fucked this one up

Happens.