France is Right To Ban The Veil - A Debate

[HarveyDarkey]

Run time: 47:44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkitwC9HSOc   Posted on YouTube: October 24, 2010 By YouTube Member: TheRealNews Views on YouTube: 303   Posted on DU: October 24, 2010 By DU Member: HarveyDarkey Views on DU: 817

 

[Karenina]

1. Cutting butter with a chainsaw...

:freak:

[Turborama]

2. I saw the whole thing on TV and the result wasn't surprising, considering the venue

It's a very good debate that's well worth watching, though.

[suzanner]

3. Some determined to make it a pointless debate...

and the vote should have had only women voting(!). Historically, and part of human DNA from eons ago, some degree of conformity/cooperation is the expectation. Just human nature. Anyone can see both sides on this one, but I do think, the debators against the ban were more hyperbolic and manipulatively used hot-buttons, rather than objective and solution-based.

[JDPriestly]

4. France was the victim of a number of religious wars.

Although a majority of the French are nominally Catholic, France is a decidedly secular country.

European countries naturally define themselves by their cultural histories which include the religious traditions of the people who lived in their country in the time of recorded history.

We are quite different in that we are a nation of immigrants.

It was interesting to see how those who opposed the motion adopted American views.

****

I wonder who would have taken which side had the argument been about allowing women the freedom to wear bikinis (or nothing at all) on the beaches of Saudi Arabia. (I assume that with all that ocean, Saudi Arabia must have great beaches, but then what do I know?)

[sulphurdunn]

5. There was a woman here

in Virginia a while back who brought suit against the DMV because she didn't believe she should be required to remove her veil to have her driver's license photo taken. I think the court ruled that driving a motor vehicle is a privileged, not a right, that photo identification was a requirement of that privilege and that she was no more required to remove her veil than the DMV was to give her a driver's license if she didn't.

[Chicks With Dickens]

12. YES!

Rights and privileges need to be distinjguished better overall. Like that FOX guy who was fired from NPR. Palin claimed his free speech rights were violated. No, they weren't. The Constitution requires only the government to guarantee free speech.

[herbm]

6. Like taking swaztikas away from Brown Shirts woulda stopped you know who. I thought France was foun

ded on 'Egalite' (pardon my French). France wants a national dress code not even founded on public decency? 99% of the time a viel is voluntarily worn for modesty not as a badge of Al Quida-dom. Its not as if this is a burka being forced onsomeone by some sort of force.

[Quantess]

10. But is it worn voluntarily, though? That is your assumption.

How can you be so sure that is is not "being forced on someone by some sort of force"?

[herbm]

14. Because there hasn't been one report of anybody being forced?

[republicansarewhores]

7. The US wants to ban gay marriage, France wants to ban Muslim face veils. Intolerance is intolerance.

If a Muslim woman wants to wear a face veil, let her. If she doesn't, she shouldn't have to. Why does it take a national referendum to pass a law dictating whether one has the choice to wear one or not? That's where I do see this as Muslim baiting.

And why weren't there any women wearing the face veil on the panel expressing their opinions and views?

RAW

[silverojo]

8. Anything that covers the face should be banned

It prevents you from being identified, and this can be taken advantage of by criminals. Where I live, we aren't even allowed to smile on our driver's licenses anymore, so that the smiles won't interfere with the face-identifying technology that's in use.

Another consideration is that, here in the West, women struggled for a long time to achieve freedom from male oppression. Being made to cover your face is a form of male oppression, even if the woman in question has been too brainwashed to realize it. It's offensive enough, seeing women covering their hair because "ohmigawd, it's such a temptation that the helpless men can't control themselves if they see it!" Covering women from head to toe has nothing to do with religion, as these male oppressors falsely claim. It's about subjugating women in the name of the Almighty, which is tantamount to our own Fundie Christian anti-choice wackos who talk about God's will, but are actually out to keep women barefoot and pregnant. It doesn't matter what religion is doing it, oppressing women is reprehensible.

Before anyone chimes in with any "it's their culture" nonsense, be advised that slavery, women not being allowed to vote, and disgusting Jim Crow laws used to be part of our culture. Those things were wrong, too.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[juxtaposed]

11. They should be arguing Sheria Law

and the genesis of the veil. The think they miss is the point of an archaic belief in archaic dogma.

[1monster]

13. A few years ago, an Islamic woman in Florida refused to remove her face veil

for her driver's license photo and she was therefore denied the driver's license. She was highly indignant and accused the DMV of religious discrimination.

I didn't think then and I don't now that it was discrimination. Driver's license are accepted forms of identification. Without the photo of more than just her eyes, the license is useless for I.D.

More than that, I, as a non-Muslim, cannot go around covering my face. I often see signs on bank doors to remove my sun glasses before entering. The other day I saw a sign on a bank door that said, "Happy Halloween! Please take off your mask before entering." I don't think it is discrimination if it applies to everyone.