Can someone tell me where the term Neocon first came from and

[frankly_fedup2]

what it is supposed to mean?

My best friend, who lives in OH has obviously been completely indoctrinated by her husband (I call him GOP and then his last name because OxyContin Limpballs is his hero).

We've been emailing and I have a blog and a small site I have created. Well I emailed her to get her opinion on how they looked. I got back the biggest bunch of bull in my life. Nothing about how my sites look or anything (which is what opinion I wanted), but I got all of her political opinions and they are so out there I really don't know if we can continue our friendship.

She comes out with this bull that my using the term Neocon on my site offended her. She stated even though she wasn't Jewish (huh?) it still offended her and she wished I wouldn't use it. She said that the term came from the term Neo-Nazis and that is why it offended her. That's not true?

I've looked up some things about the word Neoconservative and got nothing having to do with the "Nazis" plus I've never been a racist in my life. I have a long email I'm holding to send her, but I was hoping I could get some of your opinions as to the term NeoCON and where it started, what it REALLY stands for, etc. Any replies are greatly appreciated.

[LisaPeaceful]

1. This might help. I asked this same question not too long ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservative

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

33. The article is not bad, but I disagree that it has anything to do with cultural issues or

economic policy as far as I understood it, it's primarily a philosophy about America's role in foreign policy.

The wiki article does a pretty good job of laying out the names of the players and their backgrounds though.

"neo-conservative" = "new conservative" because a lot of these people were supposedly leftists in the 60s or earlier.

Because many of the most prominent neocons are Jewish, like Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, Kristol etc., it's a common and cheap tactic for the neocons or other Republicans to label any critic of the disastrous neocon foreign policy as antiSemites. A cheap and easy way to try to shut off any legitimate debate.

[waiting for hope]

2. Loved this from Wiki...

Overview of Neoconservative views
- Budget deficits - Pro-life - Pro death penalty - Family values

Never did get that connection.....

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

30. No it's pretty much entirely a foreign policy thing as I understand it.

[etherealtruth]

39. My understanding is that neoconservatism is ...

a (warped) economic and foreign policy movement ... it aligned itself with the crazed religious right, not due to any agreement on social issues, but because the religiously insane are easily manipulated by these issues (ie they will vote against their own self interest if they believe they can stop gay marriage, abortion ....)

[bullimiami]

3. well I know this core group used to be known as neo-liberals.

many of them were democrats.
the movement migrated to the more fertile soil of the republican party and so they became known as neo-conservatives, neocons.

[frankly_fedup2]

6. That is what I thought is that it started with the Neo-Liberals (I had heard

that term before)and I wondered if it was talking about right-leaning Liberals.

Here is another site I was looking up about Neo-cons if anyone is interested.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=neocon&defid=1140942

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

4. Bill Kristol

Bill Kristol is said to claim credit for coining the term,

But I seem to recall some talk radio drip claiming it was a code-word for jew, and therefore anyone trashing neocons was an anti-semite.

but don't ask me, I just use the word fucktard.

[frankly_fedup2]

10. Well, that must be where her hubby (who doesn't make enough money

to even be accepted as a Republican and I tell him that all of the time), GOP (last name)got it or from something similar.

She came across to me as very angry . . . wanting to know why the "Conservatives" are blamed for everything. I asked her where on my blog or my webpage did I say anything like that. She is suppose to be Christian but used the words (F***, SOB, and others). I was really surprised to see her use such language. I emailed her back, explained I wasn't asking about her political opinion as we both knew we'd never agree, but was asking for her opinion on my blog and webpage. I mentioned she sounded tired and aggravated. She has a small house cleaning business that she and another women run. She had told me she was always scrubbing **** off of toilets and if she could do it, so could any of these deadbeats (meaning Democrats). Her husband claims they will not accept Social Security when they retire, BUT, neither one has a 401K or IRA yet and they are in their mid 40's. Of course, her mom and dad are on Social Security now and I know If I bring that up, it will tick her off. I figure because if she is against any social program, she should be against them getting it, right?

She claimed she knew that with my "Socialist" opinions I could never understand. I felt like she had attacked me. We have never discussed politics like this because we have been friends a long time; however, she was slinging names and policies that meant nothing left and right at me. I just got a bad vibe with her email. I'm pretty pissed with some of her comments but I have held off sending off a heated reply until I calm down a bit. I valued our friendship but she comes across like she could care less about it anymore. When my dad died in May of last year, I told my husband to call her and he left a message on their voicemail. They never called nor did anyone come. I was really surprised. About a month later, my husband was talking to another friend that lives in OH, mentioned about my dad, and almost as soon as my husband hung up, my friend called me to see how I was and to tell me she did not know. She claims that they had just stopped that voicemail to save a few bucks so she never got the message. I don't know though!

Thanks for all the info. I knew you guys would help out. :toast:

[louis-t]

12. Your friends are the worst kind of freepers...

The kind that have shitty jobs, keep spouting off about "pulling oneself up by bootstraps", etc., believe every word Rush says, complain about the high cost of everything, can't make ends meet, can't figure out why the rhetoric isn't working for them, don't understand why they're not rich. Must be frustrating to be a delusional, right-wing nutjob.

[Maddy McCall]

16. let me add to that...

don't have health insurance, yet they work full-time. Have the kids on the state health insurance program (probably used Medicaid to give birth to those kids), yet complain that it's the taxes they pay for government entitlements that keep them from making ends meet.

:D

[frankly_fedup2]

21. Well they never were able to have children (maybe a sign); however,

She states in her email that she pays her company's insurance and her SOCIAL SECURITY TAX! Why preach against Social Security Retirement Benefits and not taking them but pay into them. I'm just lost with this email from her. I feel like her hubby was behind her telling her what to type.

He made a comment to me on an old email that he never read what I sent him and it pissed me off because we would debate and he would come with some off the wall BS. I would reply with literature for him to refer to show him how shallow he was as well as history itself. All he had to do was click on the URL but he told me he never read "bleeding-heart liberals' propaganda." I told him I would never email him again and blocked him from emailing me but this has been years ago and we have spoken since with no hard feelings.

Oh one more thing . . . he admires Hitler. Not what Hitler did, but Hitler's so-called "genius" to be able to lead people to commit such atrocities.

[louis-t]

26. I think you're on to something...

Can't make ends meet because their income hasn't gone up but everything else has, yet blame high taxes for their problems. Everything is the fault of the tax and spend liberals. If only the damn Democrats would "let" the Republicans (who have been in charge for 6 years) lower our taxes more, blah, blah, blah....

[frankly_fedup2]

19. To be honest, we have been friends for almost 20 years and this

political attack on me has really angered me. I don't feel like I should even consider her a friend anymore. I never asked for her political opinion. She and I know how we differ and we have always agreed to disagree and never talked about it. Now me and her husband would go at it but in a friendly way. He has been known to stand behind her and tell her what to type. They have been separated at least 3 times since they have been married. Every time they separate, she moves back to where I live and is over my house all of the time with me and my husband. Her husband and my husband were best friends and grew up together in OH. She and I were best friends and met at work and became quick friends. She and her husband set me and my now husband up on a blind date and gave me more then a best friend but a great man. If it were not for them, I would have never met my husband without her friendship and her husbands. Now I don't know. Living in separate states for 10+ years now and only seeing and/or speaking to each other once or twice a year has changed the closeness of our friendship.

I even recently emailed her husband to tell him that his hero (not mine) but his hero, Andrew Dice Clay, was going to have a new show on VH1 starting March 15th. I never even got an acknowledgment from him. Of course, he may not be up on his emails but????????

I hate to let hateful words end such a long friendship but I'm about to bust to let her have it. I have never felt vindictive toward her but after this email . . . I don't know.

[louis-t]

25. It's sad that people can be so delusional.

They refuse to read "liberal propaganda" which will enlighten them, yet seem to enjoy being lied to and manipulated. Maybe you should avoid political discussions with them for your own sake. When politics come up, make a joke (maybe a bush smear sound byte) and laugh it off, or tell them you won't talk politics anymore. Do it for your own mental health. Their type is in the minority and more so every day. Pretty soon it will only be them, Hannity, Rush and Barney that agree with stupidface. I have relatives who are very intelligent, yet were taken in by the neo-con shouting heads in the '90's, voted bush twice ("oooohhhh, he's a good Chrryssstyun man") and now suddenly they "won't talk politics". I think they are starting to realize they have been had.

[Stephanie]

31. No it was his dad, Irving Kristol >

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0028740211.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIlitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[Ilsa]

5. PBS's Frontline also ran some wonderful programs in a series.

I think the first one was titled "The War Behind Closed Doors," and it set up the background from when Clinton was in office up to just before the invasion of Iraq in 2003. It focused on Colin Powell's disagreements with Rumsfeld and other neocons.

The had other programs in that series as the war has continued. You may even be able to watch them online.

Ah, here's a link for you:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/view/

Scroll down to The War Behind Closed Doors. Also, Rumsfeld's War is interesting as is The Jesus Factor.

[Kindigger]

7. Google video

"The Power of Nightmares" will explain it all. I finally got around to watching it yesterday. What we are going through today, has been in the works since 1949!

I wish I could make copies. Everyone should see this series.

[LouisianaLiberal]

8. The Power of Nightmares

This BBC three part documentary has been mentioned here before, but I can't recommend it enough. Its a good introduction to the rise and philosophy of the Neocons.

http://throwawayyourtv.com/2006/07/power-of-nightmares.html

Below is a an interview with Shadia Drury, who has written a number of books about Strauss:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5010.htm

[peacetalksforall]

9. The answer to part of her misunderstanding is in the dictionary

adjective
(used as a combining form) recent or new; "'neo' is a combining form in words like 'neocolonialism'

neo - new

neo-natal unit

It might be possible to learn when this version of neo-conservative started, but neo-conservative was used in the last century (beginning and end and maybe in between) and in the century before that.

Isn't it crazy that she would think it's related to nazis?

When a faction of a group departs from the former or when a new group forms is the practical way I explain it to myself related to politics?

I prefer to call Cheney and friends the PNACers because their PNAC membership is limited within the conservative and neo-conservative population.

My take.

[frankly_fedup2]

11. This is her complete paragraph on the whole word "neoCON

And no we never will agree on these subjects. I am a dead believer in
capatism and you in socialism. And this is America so we have a right to
our opinion and beliefs. I am offended though by the term NeoCons. Though
I am not Jewish, it is still very offensive. You may have not ment it to be
comparing some conservitives to neo nazi's but it comes across as such. To
me and I know to some others the Neo part needs to stay with Nazi. It is
just a very offensive word even though it only means new or recent, most
associate it with Nazi.

(she sure is assuming a lot about me for some reason).

Matter of fact, here is the rest of her email: (Does she sound like she is attacking me or what?)

Why are Conservitives the only ones getting bashed? Don't
>think it is fair. Liberals fuck up too. There is a really good book I am
>reading. And no I am not trying to be mean at all. It is called ""Do
>Gooders" (How liberals hurt the ones they claim to help)." It is a really
>good informative book. It is amazing how not only the white american
>liberal politicians but also Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton etc are throwing
>around crap so as to keep the black vote, which is 9O some% democrat.
>They
>actually lie to their own race as to be able to keep their jobs. If one
>looks at statistics jobs etc isn't what they say. But by telling people
>that there are no jobs and the few jobs there are isn't worth the time
>keeps
>them in the mind set of why even try. By telling them they can never do
>better keeps them in that mindset. Which inturn keeps them on welfare etc
>which is where they want them. That way they get that vote. It is all
>just
>a political game to them. So they serve their own agenda. Sad but true.
>
>We both know we could go rounds on this subject and never agree. I only
>know that if I work my ass off I should get better pay than those who
>don't.
>AND I am not talking about those who really need assistance, or those on
>disability who are truely disabled, children or the elderly. I am talking
>about those who don't try or half ass try. Or those who the liberals say
>can't do better and so they believe it. (tell a man enough times that it
>isn't possible and he begins to believe it.) There are jobs out there.
>Good paying jobs. One just has to be willing to do the work and not have
>it
>given to them. One has to be willing to get their hands dirty. Damn I
>make
>
>anywhere between 20-40 dollars an hour. BUT I am willing to clean the
>shit
>(literaly) off toilets. THIS is America and we are only held back by
>ourselves. NO one and I mean no one really holds us back. It is all a
>facade that liberals put out there to better their own agenda. America is
>a
>capitalist society. No where else in the world can you do what you can do
>here. Yet liberals make it sound like conservitives don't give a damn and
>that we hold people back. That isn't true. In fact it is out and out
>bull
>shit. We do give a damn and no one holds anyone back but themselves. I
>myself just don't think it is fair that I work my ass off and would get
>the
>same pay as someone that don't. Or that I have to pay for someone elses
>insurance who is capible of getting their own but don't because of the
>lies
>they have been told. If I own a company then I have payed my dues of
>starting it up, sqeeking by during the beginning, hitting the pavement to
>get clients, etc so yes my pay should be more than the employees. It only
>stands to reason.
>
>Anyway that is just my take on it. I would rather live in a capitalist
>society than a socialist one like the liberals want. At least I am only
>held back by me and not the government.
>
>By the way as far as taxes. During the Clinton years we had to pay taxes
>one year and others barely got anything back. During the Bush years we
>have
>
>gotten back anywhere from $2000.00 to this year almost $6000.00. Bush
>took
>away the marriage penalty etc. Plus Bush signed into law that it is
>illigal
>to have late term abortions. There is a lot more going on besides the
>war.
>But liberals don't want anyone to think that.
>
>OK I'll shut up now.
>
>Love ya.
>C

[KenHodson]

13. The hyper sensitive yuck needs to study her language

Neo means "new" from the Greek.
Have her check "neodarwinism", "newimpressionism", "neogothic".

http://www.matrix-explained.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2334

If you wiki "neoconservative", you will find that conservatives themselves coined the term. Tell her to worry about things that matter, like lite-brite bombs in Boston.

[frankly_fedup2]

15. LOL thanks for a little humor (nt)

[frankly_fedup2]

14. I get so tired about hearing about Bush and the Partial-Birth Abortion propaganda he

signed "supposedly" into law.

I responded to her with the following but she never replied back about the facts I put out in front of her. When I show her facts, she never responds.

My email back to her regarding Partial-Birth Abortion and Bush's Law.



Regarding the Partial Birth Abortion "so-called" law, you might want
>to
>read the actual legislation and why late-term abortions still continue to
>this day in every regular hospital.
>
>It was for show and to make the Evangelicals feel like they had actually
>achieved something by helping to get Bush voted in. He had to pay them
>back
>somehow but this was complete BS.
>
I'm not just saying this because I know they only do partial birth
>abortions on already dead fetuses (learned that from the pathologist at
>WCCH when I
>first heard of the procedure) because the state says if that child
>breathes
>ONE BREATH, that child is alive and if that child is alive and breathing,
>then
>anyone who has witnessed a breathing child having a tube stuck to the back
>of
>its head to crush its skull to suck its brains out is an accessory. If
>there are any videos that show these "supposed" healthy, viable babies
>being
>murdered this way, anyone putting out any video like that is advertising
>murder
>and should be reported. They just don't do that to healthy, living
>babies.
>
>This is the URL for the law (i.e. US. Code). Read the wording carefully
>and
>you will see what I'm talking about. It means nothing. Especially when
>it
> mentions what the doctor feels is best for the mother. A fetus will
>never
>have more rights then a living human woman. It just won't happen.
>Nothing
>was accomplished but they made people THINK that there would no longer be
>partial-birth abortions. Hey, if I had my way, abortions wouldn't exist,
>but
>that isn't reality, unfortunately.
>
>http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+752+13++A
>bortion%20homo%20sapiens%20abortion%20forcing%20fetus%20born%20alive%20919a%20
>1182e%20indecent%20mother%20abortions%20infant%20abortion%20sterilization%20ab
>ortions%20immoral%20blindness%20unborn%20endangered%202151l%202151m%20jong%20f
>etuses%200000001687%20pamphlet%20abortions%200000005453%20induced%20abortion%2
>0filthy%200000001688%20lewd%20fetus%20abortion%20woman%20tissue%20species%20un
>dergo%20needy%20urging%20lascivious%20inflict%20circular%20insurrection%200000
>007801%20proprietorship%200000001531%20forcible%20advocating%200000006901%20ne
>utrality%20resistance%200000001676%20289g%20utero%200000000794%20compensable%2
>00000001093%20migration%20238n%200000002431%20aborted%20choice%200000007704%20
>0000001733%20sterilization%20unavailability%20observance%202996f%20trier%20exp
>erimentation%20postgraduate%20declaring%20fetal%20millennium%20surgeons%201397
>ee%20refugees%20testifying%200000000536%20declarant%200000002601%20patt
>ern%20moral%20gr_ades%200000000806%20inference%20challenge%20rated%200000002304%20000
>0001104%20ultimate%20currencies%20human%20being%20needed%200000000704%20child%
>20dental%20testify%20schedules%20furnish%20mental%20weapon%200000001710%200000
>000804%20denial%20injury%200000000055%20free%20domiciliary%200000000041%20nurs
>ing%20requested%20opinion%20testing%20hospital%20restriction%20hearsay%20conne
>cted%20death%20offense%20documents%20medical%20powers%20condition%20visa%20dis
>ability%20substantial%20recipient%20home%20activity%20concerning%20duties%20ex
>pert%20admission%20nationality%20individual%20percent%20person%20article%20000
>0002003%20matter%20determines%200000000050%20testimony%20member%20less%20subje
>ct%20fact%200000000018%20because%20rehabilitation%200000000008%200000000005_
>(http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+752+13++A
>bortion%20homo%20sapiens%20abortion%20forcing%20fetus%20born%20alive%20919a%20
>1182e%20indecent%20mother%20abortions%20infant%20abortion%20sterilization%20ab
>ortions%20immoral%20blindness%20unborn%20endangered%202151l%202151m%20jong%20f
>etuses%200000001687%20pamphlet%20abortions%200000005453%20induced%20abortion%2
>0filthy%200000001688%20lewd%20fetus%20abortion%20woman%20tissue%20species%20un
>dergo%20needy%20urging%20lascivious%20inflict%20circular%20insurrection%200000
>007801%20proprietorship%200000001531%20forcible%20advocating%200000006901%20ne
>utrality%20resistance%200000001676%20289g%20utero%200000000794%20compensable%2
>00000001093%20migration%20238n%200000002431%20aborted%20choice%200000007704%20
>0000001733%20sterilization%20unavailability%20observance%202996f%20trier%20exp
>erimentation%20postgraduate%20declaring%20fetal%20millennium%20surgeons%201397
>ee%20refugees%20testifying%200000000536%20declarant%200000002601%20pattern%20m
>oral%20grades%200000000806%20inference%20challenge%20rated%200000002304%200000
>001104%20ultimate%20currencies%20human%20being%20needed%200000000704%20child%2
>0dental%20testify%20schedules%20furnish%20mental%20weapon%200000001710%2000000
>00804%20denial%20injury%200000000055%20free%20domiciliary%200000000041%20nursi
>ng%20requested%20opinion%20testing%20hospital%20restriction%20hearsay%20connec
>ted%20death%20offense%20documents%20medical%20powers%20condition%20visa%20disa
>bility%20substantial%20recipient%20home%20activity%20concerning%20duties%20exp
>ert%20admission%20nationality%20individual%20percent%20person%20article%200000
>002003%20matter%20determines%200000000050%20testimony%20member%20less%20subjec
>t%20fact%200000000018%20because%20rehabilitation%200000000008%200000000005)
>
>This is legal arguments regarding other court suits regarding the law and
>the confusing wording for the states per the Supreme Court.
>_http://writ.news.findlaw.com/lazarus/20031030.html_
>(http://writ.news.findlaw.com/lazarus/20031030.html)
>
>oxox
>b.

[Maddy McCall]

17. She's a lost cause.

She's the kind of person that you're going to have to decide--if you want to continue the friendship--that you won't bring up politics.

She has been fully indoctrinated.

And she's too stupid to be intellectually curious. Lost cause.

[frankly_fedup2]

22. Were you a big fan of Molly Ivans as well. I loved her wit and she

supposedly had it until the end. She will be missed.

I'm starting to think she has been totally brainwashed because she attacks me because she claims the liberals are only thinking about the war when there is so much more going on. I look at it like since we are at war, our people are dying, innocent Iraqis are dying; therefore, probably should be at the top of Bush's agenda. Don't you think?

Maddy that Frog freaks me out. It's not that he has teeth. It's the fact that his teeth are tinged with a mild red like blood in them. Gives me the willies.

[peacetalksforall]

20. Do you think you might get in trouble if she knows you posted

her words - even tho we don't have a name? I'm sensitive about that - happened to me and I found out that it's a sensitive issue for many.

[frankly_fedup2]

24. Possibly. But, she sent the email to me and I feel it is up to me to put them

out there or not. Of course, she meant the email just for me, and I've never done this before; however, she has never attacked me like this before with such BS.

I was really wanting some strong opinions regarding what she said. I can tell her I posted her email on a website I frequent because the email she sent me upset me and I wanted to be sure I wasn't misreading my feelings of being attacked by her. She may get mad but she sounds mad already and I do not understand why she said the things she did to me. She sure was assuming a lot about me. She came across as angry and bitter to me and I was wanting some feed back about it. I may not even respond to that email and let it go.

To be totally honest, I never thought about it. I figured my email, my decision. Am I wrong here?

[peacetalksforall]

29. Maybe not. If you were both on the same list and you posted a

private message it might be bad. I'm not sure if there is anything legal, but to be safe I would paraphrase next time. Maybe someone knows.

To me she sounds like many others like her who cannot put themselves in someone elses shoes - meaning she lacks empathy, therefore logic. Truth seeking is irrelevant.

She is definitely assuming that you are not sensitive.

All their characteristics seem to meld into one cold hearted pool of ice and contempt for others.

I'm not even sure if the word 'contempt' is a right choice because it implies heat of feeling and I don't think they can feel heat because heat also implies warmth. And they have cold hearts.

She is one of the 'fear footed' or fear grounded - afraid of losing somehting.

I don't know how to pin them down.

Edited to add that what I wrote gave me something to think about - we have to warm them up to reality and truth? Warmth means caring to me? I'm going to think about this. Now that I think for one more second I realize that psychologists, therapists, and meditation/mediation leaders would not put us in a cold room and ask us to think cold thoughts. Yes - a key is warmth. Maybe that is the way you should respond? With warmth, but manage to tell it like it is - for you. Get her to listen - to you.

[KenHodson]

35. Neo = Neo = Neo

Lets examine the word "Neo-Nazi" quickly.

"Neo" is not the part that offends.

To reiterate, your friend is a hypersensitive yuck.

Call her a "Shithead", and then apologize for the "head" portion.

[frankly_fedup2]

38. OMG, that is too funny. (nt)

[frankly_fedup2]

37. She is too afraid of losing her husband all the time. Like I had said b4 they

have separated like 3 times. She has to agree with everything he believes and does. If not, she might have him tell her to leave yet again. I told her the next time he said that to tell him it's her house as well and he can get the Hell out if he doesn't want her company. She is the believing in the almost submissive (obey) wife. Not me. I told my husband when he can support the family and make enough money to pay all of the bills then I might obey. I doubt it I am too strong willed as a person though. My husband's mom STILL makes me get him a plate of food at all the family reunions though. (I hate that!!! but I do it so as not to disrespect my mother-in-law's feelings). My husband gets a big kick out of it.

Several years ago I became ill and suddenly she had the same symptoms. My physicians put me on morphine patches and Vicodin and her doctors gave her something that was addictive or something. Anyway, I could no longer work and neither could she. I applied for disability, which has been very hard on my husband and me (bankruptcy), and she was doing the same thing but her husband raised hell about no bankruptcy, they made the bills, they'd pay the bills. Suddenly she is in rehab for prescription drug abuse, then he is in rehab for alcohol abuse. Now she goes to NA meetings everyday. I mean every friggin day (or she use to about a year ago). I got my disability and now we are doing okay. I'm still in a lot of pain but am able to do some things around my home. Also, suddenly she no longer had the same illness as me and my illness is until death. It doesn't just go away, but hers did. I told her she must have been misdiagnosed or something. Anyway, since then she has been working like a dog without pain and everything. It's a friggin miracle. Plus, she has always claimed to be a "Christian," but I notice she is when it is convienant for her.

I feel as if I no longer know this person and someways don't want to stay in touch. It's really sad and it's not JUST because of the politics.

[KenHodson]

18. Hell, look how she interchanges liberalism with socialism

"Anyway that is just my take on it. I would rather live in a capitalist society than a socialist one like the liberals want."

Hypocrit.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

32. Socialism isn't going to look too bad to her when she's still scrubbing toilets at 83, to buy food.

These people don't even understand half the words they throw around.

I bet they're against "socialized medicine" too. Beats the hell out of "no insurance/no medicine" as far as I can see. I guess they'd rather go to an E.R. with life threatening problems only, and get a bill for thousands.

[JacksonWest]

23. I thought neocons were PNAC people and their ilk.

Basically, a conservative in it for the money, not the religion. You have Fundies on ones side, the neocons on the other. Together you've got the Republican party.

The whole neocon= jewish is just a way for the right to lob grenades at people who use the term.

[Fire Walk With Me]

27. A reduction of "the new con artists"?

Re: Dilbert.. Dogbert is thinking to himself: "I like to con people, and I like to insult people. 'Con', 'Sult'. I'll Consult!"

[BuyingThyme]

28. During Vietnam, social liberals who supported murder

got stuck between sanity and imperialism.

The ones who leaned (and lean) towards imperialism are now known as neo-cons.

But it's not American or Israeli imperialism they support; it's imperialism by and for the world's ruling elite. (And they just happen to be based in the United States and Israel.)

[frankly_fedup2]

40. That makes the most sense to me. It's simple and to the point.

Mind if I use it? I'm still going to "ask" her to "wiki" the definition as well (doubt it will help).

[Emit]

34. Here's an easy intro for this kind of situation

There is a history to the neocon's philosophy that needs to be put into context -- a history including Leo Strauss, etc. that I won't go into but that anyone who is really trying to understand neoconservatism should look into. Here's a good intro for that:

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:FZXbfTPCPLkJ:www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5646.htm+neoconservative+yurica+report&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3

The Despoiling of America
How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State

By Katherine Yurica

~~snip~~

Leo Strauss the Father of Neo-Conservatism
Leo Strauss was born in 1899 and died in 1973. He was a Jewish scholar who fled Germany when Hitler gained power. He eventually found refuge in the United States where he taught political science at the University of Chicago. He is most famous for resuscitating Machiavelli and introducing his principles as the guiding philosophy of the neo-conservative movement. Strauss has been called the godfather of Newt Gingrich’s “Contract with America.” More than any other man, Strauss breathed upon conservatism, inspiring it to rise from its atrophied condition and its natural dislike of change and to embrace an unbounded new political ideology that rides on the back of a revolutionary steed, hailing even radical change; hence the name Neo-Conservatives.

~~snip~~

But, for this situation you have, this site does a pretty quick overview:

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html

~~snip~~

Neocon 101

Some basic questions answered.

What do neoconservatives believe?
"Neocons" believe that the United States should not be ashamed to use its unrivaled power – forcefully if necessary – to promote its values around the world. Some even speak of the need to cultivate a US empire. Neoconservatives believe modern threats facing the US can no longer be reliably contained and therefore must be prevented, sometimes through preemptive military action.

Most neocons believe that the US has allowed dangers to gather by not spending enough on defense and not confronting threats aggressively enough. One such threat, they contend, was Saddam Hussein and his pursuit of weapons of mass destruction. Since the 1991 Gulf War, neocons relentlessly advocated Mr. Hussein's ouster.

Most neocons share unwavering support for Israel, which they see as crucial to US military sufficiency in a volatile region. They also see Israel as a key outpost of democracy in a region ruled by despots. Believing that authoritarianism and theocracy have allowed anti-Americanism to flourish in the Middle East, neocons advocate the democratic transformation of the region, starting with Iraq. They also believe the US is unnecessarily hampered by multilateral institutions, which they do not trust to effectively neutralize threats to global security.

What are the roots of neoconservative beliefs?

The original neocons were a small group of mostly Jewish liberal intellectuals who, in the 1960s and 70s, grew disenchanted with what they saw as the American left's social excesses and reluctance to spend adequately on defense. Many of these neocons worked in the 1970s for Democratic Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson, a staunch anti-communist. By the 1980s, most neocons had become Republicans, finding in President Ronald Reagan an avenue for their aggressive approach of confronting the Soviet Union with bold rhetoric and steep hikes in military spending. After the Soviet Union's fall, the neocons decried what they saw as American complacency. In the 1990s, they warned of the dangers of reducing both America's defense spending and its role in the world.


~~snip~~

Also, check out this -- a piece from Irving Kristol (Bill Kristol's father), the godfather of neoconservatism -- with some notes to follow and put it into perspective:

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:3PgYa9RJN-UJ:www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/001679.html+neoconservative+kristol&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

[suegeo]

36. New Conservative, Anti-Commie Democrats

The new conservatives (aka neocon, for greater derision) were once democrats. They were the coldwar liberals/anti-commie liberals. The Prince of Darkness Richard Perle was once a staffer for some freaky Washinton State senator (a Democrat.) Jeane Kirkpatrick, and for a time Sen. Dan Pat. Monihan (SP?) of New York. Although the democractic senator from New York sided with the neo-con nutjobs for a bit, he never fully became a neocon. He remained a Democrat until Hillary took his seat after his death. (I think that is the chronology)

Back in the day (1950s? 1960s?) Jeane Kirkpatrick wrote an article for some journal called something like "Children of Dark, Children of Light" which was anti-commie. The neo-cons rallied behind this article and it seems to be an organizing moment for the nuts to gather. I mention this because you wanted to know when they started. It think this Kirkpatrick article was their rallying point.

Jeane later became some U.N. whoopdeedoo under that asshole Reagan. In her job, she basically ate Nicaragua for lunch. Much pain and suffering and woe, for the people there, at least. Jeane died recently.

Many neocons were democats who voted for that douche Reagan and his evil side kick GHWB, during the 1980s election, which had a REAL October surprise when GHWB made a side deal re: the hostages with the Iranians.

Many neocons were nuts way before the Big 80s. Some of them taught at Columbia University, and when the blacks started to stand up for themselves in the 60s, the neocons/anti-commie liberals freaked. Some of them drank the crazy juice at the University of Chicago, under some brainwashing professor named Strauss. I wonder what they thought of the riots in '68. One comb-licking, holes-in-his-socks student of Strauss ended up at Johns Hopkins, which I imagine is now a nursery for neo-con monsters, much like the monster nursery that Ripley came across in movie "Alien"

The Democrats who did not side with the anti-commie liberals coined the term New Conservative as an insult. I imagine neo-con is an abbreviated form of the insult, just to make it more insulting. Like, we hate you so much, we can't even get your name right. Conservatives fell into bed with the assholes, instead of shunning them. Leading to the mess they have shat on us in recent years.

While many neo-cons are jewish, not all are. David Brooks recently said critics of the neocons were anti-semetic. I think this is a tactic they use to try to shut up anyone who criticizes their fascist ideas.

Elliott Abrams was an Iran Contra crook. He lied to congress. He should be in jail, but instead he is a pig neo-con returned to the Bush II junta.

Many of the offspring of the original neo-cons went on to preach in rightwing (fascist) thinktanks. They like to think themselves intellectuals, because their daddys' were considered intellectuals during FDRs time. The neocons are fascists, who huddled together and shared the same ideas, and became more radical as they became more isolated amoungst themselves.

I would say that the conservatives who slipped into bed with these assholes caught a nasty case of V.D. You sleep with dogs, you wake up with fleas. Although the sex analogy doesn't seem appropriate for these anti-fertility maroons.

[frankly_fedup2]

41. I have been well educated from this thread. I'm glad she was offended

and I asked the question. I never knew the history of Neoconservatives and now I feel I can carry my own in any debate with anyone I come across who claims it is antisemetic.

Thanks for the time to post all of the information.

[Recursion]

42. It was coined to describe socially liberal hawks in the 60s and 70s

Basically, it's people who didn't mind the Great Society but didn't like Nixon's accomodation with China and the withdrawl from Vietnam. Many of them started the 1960's on the left but as the decade progressed couldn't stand the left's dovishness or the right's obssession with social conservatism. Then when Nixon won they really got pissed because here was a conservative talking to China and telling Israel to give back land after the Yom Kippur war.

IIRC it was coined by a "real" conservative (maybe even Buckley) as a kind of term of derision for these Johnny-come-lately hawks who were pushing to keep Vietnam going when most of the country had decided it was a stupid idea.