Hunters donate record number of deer to feed needy people

[TX-RAT]

http://www.madison.com/tct/news/stories/index.php?ntid=115834&ntpid=2

[RB TexLa]

1. Good for them. Should be enjoyed, I made gumbo with deer tenderloin last night

[TX-RAT]

7. We donated.

Of the 10 deer taken off my place last year, 4 were donated to local food banks

[RB TexLa]

9. I'll have to check for next year if Louisiana has a program

I haven't heard of one so might be time to get on the phone to some state senators. Haven't even gotten a Texas license, just go back home to hunt.

[TX-RAT]

14. I'm sure there are programs available in Louisiana.

[Dulcinea]

195. A hunter friend of mine has done this for years.

More power to him, & all those who donate to the hungry.

[Richard Steele]

2. Always nice to see someone helping their fellow man. nm

[Auggie]

3. I bet all the vegetarians were thrilled

[seriousstan]

5. Let Vegan farmers donate veggies to them then.

Otherwise let the vegans graze for free. Free range vegans.

[Deja Q]

143. Mmmm! Free range vegans!

:9

But they have onion breath; make terrible kissers! :spray:

[WI_DEM]

6. I'm not trying to be funny, but my guess is that most homeless people are not

vegetarians. In my experience working at a local homeless shelter seems to indicate that most of these folks will take whatever they can get to eat--to keep from being hungry. So I say good for those hunters.

[IA_Seth]

10. Oh lord...

So now in order to be a good samaritan you have to donate both vegetarian and non-vegetarian meals to the homeless? Give me a freakin break.

[sybylla]

11. I'm shocked anyone would imply vegetarians would have a problem feeding the poor

I think that's a terrible slander against vegetarians. There's already enough tension between vegetarians and omnivores to so carelessly add to it.

[TX-RAT]

13. Don't know if their Vegans or not.

But our local farmers market donates a considerable amount of veggies every weekend when it's running. At the end of the weekend, all surplus is donated.

[jilln]

24. With feeding the poor, no. With torturing and killing animals to do it, yes.

This whole thing is a joke. These hunters could go buy food to give to poor people and achieve the same result. This is just a PR ploy to make killing animals seem like a nice thing to do. And clearly it works on a lot of people.

[sybylla]

31. So an animal processed in a Hormel plant

has had a better life and suffered less in the end than an animal that has lived free and with any luck has died as quickly and painlessly as possible?

Please, enough of the hyperbole. There have been meat-eating hominids on this planet for at least 100,000 years. Sooner or later, you'll have to deal with the fact that we all make our own lifestyle choices and a huge percentage of us choose to eat animals.

Yes, "hunters could go buy food to give to poor people" but they didn't. If you grew up in Wisconsin you'd know this is no PR ploy. Hunting is a way of life for tens of thousands of families and back many generations. It needs no PR here. What it does serve to do is to remind people that they have neighbors who go hungry and food pantries that need food. This is merely promoted as an easy way to help.

But if it's easier to think hunters are evil and have formed some great hunting cabal meeting secretly in Wisconsin to plan PR stunts, well...who can argue with that?

[Auggie]

34. Hunters still get something out it, and it isn't just meat. It's fun.

[RebelOne]

36. Oh yeah, it's such fun to blast away animals. n/t

[Conan_The_Barbarian]

58. if it isn't fun why would a hunter shoot a deer?

nt

[TX-RAT]

61. For the many pounds of lean tasty meat it provides.

[tsuki]

83. And so you don't have to eat the overmedicated domestic supply. n/t

[TX-RAT]

84. Good point.

[northofdenali]

176. Amen to that -

plus it tastes a hell of a lot better.

[Conan_The_Barbarian]

90. you misinterpreted the context

Obivously if the hunter isn't keeping the meet for himself and donating it the getting of the meat must be fun for that hunter, otherwise he would have no real reason to kill the deet in the first place.

[11 Bravo]

118. How about thinning the herd?

Come visit Northern Virginia, we are overrun with deer. Dead animals litter the highways. (And for the record, I take one deer per season, and my family eats what I kill.)

[krispos42]

188. Well, we have to get into the details

Most people that hunt deer regularly have a chest freezer to store the meat. If the father and his two sons go deer hunting, they might bring home six deer. If they don't want to keep the meat for more than a year, they would probably wind up donating half or more to a soup kitchen.

This number may increase as family and friends also go hunting, but not all of them have enough freezer space to store it all. So, it goes to the soup kitchen.

[fishwax]

256. or perhaps the hunter does it because he enjoys helping others

:shrug:

[Critters2]

115. As has already been pointed out, they could have simply donated money

They kill animals because they enjoy killing animals.

[piedmont]

149. They can donate 100 lbs of meat for the cost of one bullet.

Sounds like a good way to maximize the number of hungry mouths fed for the amount of money you can spare.

[Critters2]

154. Bullet, rifle, hunting jacket and other insulated clothing, deer stand, gasoline...

All that money could have bought food.

[piedmont]

155. You can take the value of all of those, add it up...

and it wouldn't buy as much as it could produce in the possession of a hunter. That's why people have hunted since before there were modern humans.

[krispos42]

187. Scope-sighted deer rifle: $500 (new)

Hunting jacket... well, I just threw a $5 orange vest over my heavy winter coat. And I already had the long johns for under and oversize sweatpants for over my jeans. As well as a hand-knitted scarf, fur hat, gloves, and boots. Part of being on the Frozen Tundra.

Box of ammo: about $15-25

Hunting in the prairies, we drove to different tree lines and walked. No tree stand.

Deer tag: $30 for 1, $45 for two.

The cost of the rifle is reduced on a per-deer basis. If I took two deer a year for 30 years, it's about $8 a deer in rifle costs.

So, cost per deer is something in the range of $30. That's pennies per pound, about a quarter of the cost of ground beef.

[cgrindley]

264. SKS with cheap scope

Deer is practically free and you're doing the world a good service in controling their numbers as we've exterminated their *other* natural predators (I think people forget just how natural acts such as hunting and fishing are... I think that people have somehow forgotten that we *are* the deer's natural predators).

[krispos42]

271. NOOOOO! Not an SKS! That's a dreaded 'assault weapon'!

You might go on a rampage at the nearest elementry school and/or start a cult in Texas!!!!!!!!

:sarcasm:

Actually, mine was a hand-me-down sporterized Spanish military Mauser in 7x57mm, so it was free. Have to go to Cabela's to find ammo for it, though...

[Clark2008]

210. And then the animals would over-populate and die of

starvation or being hit by a car or some other long, painful death.

I'm a HUGE animal lover - used to be on the board of directors for the local Humane Society - but I still know that we have to thin herds or disease and other forms of painful deaths become more prevalent.

[karlrschneider]

77. Why would a butcher slaughter a cow or a pig?

:eyes:

[Conan_The_Barbarian]

89. you misinterpreted the context

Obivously if the hunter isn't keeping the meet for himself and donating it the getting of the meat must be fun for that hunter, otherwise he would have no real reason to kill the deet in the first place.

[karlrschneider]

98. Faulty logic. Some hunters harvest game for the explicit PURPOSE of

giving food to needy people. It's done regularly around here.

[Conan_The_Barbarian]

108. okay sure

This is the most pointless debate, it's Friday, enjoy the weekend.

[Critters2]

116. Bull shit. They could more easily give money.

They enjoy killing.

[kestrel91316]

206. The alternative is watching deer starve. You prefer that, of course.

[fishwax]

257. unless they don't have a lot of money to give

:shrug:

[slackmaster]

275. Donating money that gets used to buy food shifts the killing somewhere else

If any of the money is used to buy meat of any kind.

[TX-RAT]

276. And those in need would receive less.

Lets say i donate 100 dollars, that would buy about 30 lbs of good ground beef. Lets say we get 4 servings per lb, that would amount to 120 meals.

I donate one deer from every season, that provides around 65-70 lbs of good ground venison. Lets say we get 4 servings per lb, that would amount to 260- 280 meals.

I'm not a wealthy man, it's far easier and cheaper for me to donate the meat, than it is to come up with the money.

You do the math and tell me which example feeds the most people.

[piedmont]

102. So buying soup cans must be fun or nobody would donate soup to charity?

[Conan_The_Barbarian]

109. yes yes your really smart.

I gotta go, I'm in a hurry, enjoy your weekend.

[piedmont]

110. ok, then

enjoy the weekend

[karlrschneider]

170. Whereas a minimalist philathropist seeking to acquire a quantity of meat for the poor

would gladly forego the misery of spending a morning in nature's woods in favor of standing in line at the checkout in a grocery behind 5 smelly overheated humans to purchase 200 pounds of beef as a donation. I see. How silly of me.

[krispos42]

189. But I thought Democrats were enviromentalists?

Enjoying a brisk day in Nature does not have to be painful. This is mostly recreational hunting. It's a much about being on your own against nature. Being in the unspoiled wilderness, you and your buddies hiking across fields and through woods, being in tune with nature.

This isn't Cheney-style hunting, in a goddamn fenced-in pen with tame birds.

[MyNameGoesHere]

101. What a remarkably insane

statement. When i was a youngster i lived in a very rural part of WV. I lived with my grandparents in a 200 year old log cabin. this is a no shitter. we had no running water and no electricity. We survived on the monthly SS checks and what we hunted or planted. Guess what my brilliant friend we hunted and tilled the land for food. It was not for "fun" but to get something in our damn bellies. Thank god i do not have to live that kind of life any longer, and i do not find it necessary to hunt. i suggest you target your statement to sportsman and not hunters. Very typically "liberal" of you i might add. No wonder we can lose continually on the gods, guns and gay issues.

[northofdenali]

177. You've got it in one, Lib -

Many, many, many folks up here still live that way (over 30% of the Fairbanks North Star Borough still has no running water in homes) - and if they didn't or couldn't hunt (or fish), they wouldn't eat meat. I've been there and done that. "Getting your moose" means meat for the winter for the family (or village). As long as the meat is used, it's legit, as far as I'm concerned. I no longer hunt due to an injury. If I could, I would, because the meat is better (health AND flavor), I'd have more money to donate to other causes, and I really don't give a shit what "anti-hunters" say about it.

Except, I do agree about trophy hunters, most of whom are quite wealthy Republicans. They spawn an industry that needs to be eradicated.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

199. Yep, blame the gays for losing.

Didn't we disprove that crap back in November?

BTW, I agree with you on the gun issue.

[MyNameGoesHere]

209. You get a F-

in inference. Please try harder.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

212. Oh, I didn't realize we could "grade" people's posts now.

If I recieved an F- in inference, then perhaps you can enlighten me as to what you meant by your God, guns, and gays comment. Surely, you don't want anybody to infer the wrong message from your statement.

[MyNameGoesHere]

223. Ha ha

You know what? I give the fuck up. I never meant to appear to be anti gay, I never have been not ever will be. But once again instead of debate i am labeled a gay basher to stifle my opposing view that America is made up of ALL people and these differing groups MUST be willing to vote for a democrat. YOU WILL NOT GET THAT VOTE BY LETTING SOMEONE POST HERE THAT HUNTERS KILL FOR FUN. You attack my misguided example of winning that vote and let someone who makes a blanket statement slide. Who is a hypocrite by the way?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

224. I never said anything against hunting. I support hunting.

You brought in the Gods and Gays issues. What does that have to do with hunting? You never really explained that.

[MyNameGoesHere]

226. GODDAMN IT TO FUCKING HELL

IT IS A VOTER BLOCK THAT WE ALWAYS LOSE. IT WAS A FUCKING POOR EXAMPLE. OK? I SUPPORT GAY MARRIAGE I SUPPORT GAY RIGHTS I SUPPORT 99% FUCKING PERCENT OF THE PROGRESSIVE AGENDA. THERE DO I FUCKING PASS?

[Midlodemocrat]

230. Okay. Wait a minute? Hunters don't kill for sport?

Are you kidding me? I know a great deal of people that do it for just that. They stuff the head of the deer or whatever they have shot and mount it on the family room wall.

Most hunters I know, don't kill for the meat. Not at all.

[MyNameGoesHere]

235. If you say so it must be

true. As a ex hunter i can tell you i never mounted anything or took joy in it. It was something i did for food. But you like another poster lumped all hunters into one category. Hunters=crazed loonies that "murder" for fun. Look i am tired of this you are right and hunting is evil. Have fun getting those moderate votes from hunters ok.

[Midlodemocrat]

262. I never said that. You are being

ridiculous and painting with a very broad brush. A lot of hunters hunt for the sport of it, not to eat the meat and denying that is simply insane. A lot of others don't, but don't try and sell the 'all hunters hunt for the meat' crap to those of us who live next to rural areas. It simply isn't so and saying it over and over won't make it so.

How many duck hunters do you know that will leave their blinds to retrieve the downed duck in the middle of the lake? I bet not many.

[MyNameGoesHere]

266. Don't know any duck hunters as

they are mostly sportsman. By the way that's a pretty big brush you got there. Paint much?

[Midlodemocrat]

267. Wow.

Obtuse? Or just ignorant?

You said that hunters don't kill for sport. I proved you wrong and you're stating that *I'm* painting with a broad brush?

You might want to go to some hunting and fishing sites and read about the subject of which you profess to know so much.

[EstimatedProphet]

286. Actually, you didn't prove anyone wrong, sorry

Most duck hunters have dogs, or use boats. I've never heard of any that shoot ducks and let them fall. They all want to take them home for dinner.

[TX-RAT]

278. Wow!

(How many duck hunters do you know that will leave their blinds to retrieve the downed duck in the middle of the lake? I bet not many. )


You do realize it's not only a federal crime, but also a state crime to take a game animal and not utilize it's meat?

[Midlodemocrat]

283. Well, there are a lot of people breaking the law then.

We used to boat on a big lake here and up towards the Appomattox there were literally hundreds of blinds. They would take the shot, down would come the bird and they would reload without retrieving the bird.

And, I think you would agree, that just because a law exists, doesn't mean that people necessarily abide by it. If everyone did, we wouldn't have anyone on death row for murder.

[TX-RAT]

277. Hunters don't kill for sport?

Hunting is not a sport and it's not a game. Hunting is an instinct that we all possess, whether we want to admit to it or not.

[Midlodemocrat]

285. Uh, no. Not everybody enjoys hunting and not everybody

has that 'instinct'. Just because you say everyone does doesn't make it so.

I don't hunt. I think it is an absolutely awful sport. I detest it. I do though understand that my opinion isn't everyone else's and so I choose not to try to prevent people from doing what they enjoy.

[ThomCat]

219. You don't get a pass

for throwing out an absurd statement and then grading Haruka for somehow missing your point. I think she gets an A for alertness. You outed yourself as someone who's on the conservative side of "God, Guns and Gays," so what other neo-con positions do you hold?
:eyes:

[MyNameGoesHere]

221. That is utter bullshit

I am none of those. I do not support those ideas anymore than i support some ass wipe stating that people who hunt do it for fun now get along and find someone else to accuse.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

222. Then, explain what you mean by the "God, guns, and gays" comment.

If it's not offensive, then why can't you give an explanation?

[LostinVA]

200. What does hunting and growing up poor have to do with gays

Or God? Got that little slam in, huh?

And, yet ANOTHER post of yours slamming liberals in a not-so-oblique way. Geez.

And, for the record, I grew up without very much money -- so don't try any of your elitist labels on me.

[Name removed]

208. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

218. So you've stated y our opinion on Guns.

Why bring up God and Gays? Your post implies that you think we're wrong on those issues too. So do you really think that we shouldn't pursue civil rights for LGBT people? And do you have a problem with the separation of church and state?

If your post is anything more than a cheap slam at good people I'm having a hard time seeing it.

[MyNameGoesHere]

225. I am sorry

you do not know that that is a voter block that is often referred to. I was trying to point out that we need that group "commonly referred to as" the Pro God, Pro Gun Anti-Gay to win a Democratic Presidency. My original reply was to someone who said all hunters killed for fun. Which almost every person has given a pass to because it is the party line? You tell me.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

227. That's not a voting block. It's a RW meme. A made-up talking point.

[MyNameGoesHere]

228. Made up?

You mean the pamphlets sent out stating Kerry was going to take away bibles and guns was not real? Are you sure about that? It seemed pretty real to me and some people actually bought that. I guess if we say it's not real it will go away.?

[bearfan454]

258. Fucking eh. I hunt and it is fun.

There is a big over population problem in Menard County Tx. I kill my limit of 5 every year.

[cgrindley]

265. The 2nd Amendment

applies to everyone, not just to RW dickbrains. Shooting is fun. My kids go to the range every Friday. It's a good, wholesome activity, and pretty soon they'll start going out for birds. In a few more years, deer. There's nothing wrong with hunting. It's a good way to put rich people's food on the tables of regular folk. It's good for the environment. It's a hoot and a holler. It's good exercise.

Just because the RW has hijacked the issue of the second amendment doesn't mean to say that support for gun ownership rights belongs to them. The constitution is for everyone.

[Dorian Gray]

55. Exactly, sybylla...

I am not a hunter, nor would I want to hunt. But, it seems to me that hunting meat (and using it all) is more responsible (I'm not talking about game hunting) than buying ground chuck from the meat department at the A and P.

[jilln]

205. Who said to buy from Hormel?

beans, pasta, rice, canned vegetables, fruits... there are thousands of things homeless people can eat that don't involve either hunting or Hormel.

[EstimatedProphet]

41. Torturing animals?

Did these hunters stack the deer naked in a pyramid? Did they attach electrodes to their genitals? Did they waterboard them?

Christ sakes. These people GAVE. They didn't have to. WE NEED MORE PEOPLE THAT GIVE IN THIS SOCIETY!

[jilln]

69. How many are killed immediately? How many run away with bullets in them?

Please. You know it's not always a clean kill, as much as you might like to romanticize it.

Of course we need more people to GIVE, but you can GIVE without TORTURING AND KILLING.

[cgrindley]

80. Who cares?

Heavens to murgatroid, deer are food.

[jilln]

204. Those of us who are against suffering, that's who.

I guess you're pro-suffering.

[cgrindley]

263. I'm pro killing and eating deer

I don't really want to get caught up in needless anthropomorphism and the silly and petty hysteria that often accompanies it... needless to say, but it's just not all that rational to use loaded and emotional terms to discuss the interior lives of creatures whose interior lives are nothing at all like our own... Disney--who already has a lot to answer for--can add that little bit of idiocy to the list.

If you're willing to salt a slug or trap a mouse, you should have no problem with shooting a deer. And if you have problems killing slugs or mice, you need some help.

[EstimatedProphet]

94. I'm not romanticizing anything. I know what it's like.

Yes, sometimes they are lost after being shot. Nowhere near as often as you are making it out to be, but that doesn't really matter, because unlike what you are trying to make the purpose of hunting out to be, THAT ISN'T THE GOAL. 'Torturing' animals - give me a break. It's as if you think that hunters actually try to inflict pain for some sort of kick.

[krispos42]

190. I know people that worked in a pork processing plant

The pneumatic spike didn't always work 100% either. They kept a sledgehammer handy for those instances.

And there is a difference between an unlucky or poor shot and torture.

[kestrel91316]

207. "....there is a difference between an unlucky or poor shot and torture.

You bet there is!!

It requires a hermetically sealed mind not to get this little factoid.

[krispos42]

272. Yeah, well, look at the way fundies look at homosexuality

To them, it is such a sin that there is no difference in 'sin-ness' between two guys screwing and a guy screwing a goat.

To the animal-rights people, it seems that hunting rates with dousing cats with gasoling and lighting a match.

[NaturalHigh]

65. I knew there would be some of these threads.

Feeding the poor is a bad thing if an animal was shot? I'm no hunter, but none of the hunters I know are into torturing animals.

Feeding people is a PR ploy? I truly hope I never become as cynical as you.

[BlackVelvet04]

111. The deer population has to be thinned.......

or they starve. Not to mention the automobile accidents caused by deer looking far and wide for food. I don't like the reality of it as I love deer. My property is a wildlife sanctuary and I have the proper plants to feed many species of birds and animals as well as supplementing with purchased food.

Many deer are maimed and killed each year in farm fields. They go to the fields for food and shelter and get run over by equipment. Better they are shot when the food supply is low.

[Critters2]

119. If their natural predators hadn't been hunted into near extinction

this wouldn't be necessary. But watch the hunters howl when there's any mention of reivigorating the wolf or cougar populations in areas with a lot of "sport hunting".

Nature has ways of taking care of these things, and men with high-powered rifles aren't part of it.

[BlackVelvet04]

125. If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass when he hops....

but, alas he doesn't.

Actually it's farmers who don't want the wolf and cougar populations to increase. Man has encroached on the animals territory and that isn't going to change.

[Critters2]

126. REally? Tell your local hunters you're bringing cougars into the area

Watch the whining begin!

[BlackVelvet04]

127. Are you a city person?

Do you really know anything about farmers and hunters?

Do you really think a deer would prefer to be mangled and eaten by a cougar than a quick shot to the head?

[Critters2]

129. I've served majority farmer congregations for 18 of my 20 year career

My grandparents on both sides farmed, as did two of my uncles. My dad designed farm equipment for 45 years. I know a little something about farmers--and no, I am definitely NOT a city person!

I think there'd be fewer deer if their predator species were still part of the ecologies. As nature intended. It's not about how kind the kill is, but that it is ecologically appropriate. There are too many deer because we've killed iff their predators. And now they aren't being returned because hunters see them as competition, and behave as if deer exist for their amusement.

[BlackVelvet04]

131. No, they aren't being returned because they are a danger

to livestock, humans and pets.

[Critters2]

134. I've lived in areas with coyotes and cougars. They were as afraid of us as we were of them.

Never knew anyone ever attacked by one. The occasional cat went missing, so you learned to keep your cats inside, at least at night.

[BlackVelvet04]

141. So have I.....

and they are a danger to livestock, pets and very occasionally humans.

[Critters2]

147. All my parishioners had shotguns around to scare 'em off their livestock,

but I never knew anyone attacked by them.

[piedmont]

135. They aren't being returned because they eat pets, livestock and people

You want wolves re-introduced to Massachusetts? Mountain lions in North Carolina? I'd love to see it, but it wouldn't work.

[Critters2]

136. The you'll have to live with an overpopulation of deer

Hunting isn't doing the trick.

[piedmont]

139. It isn't doing the trick in highly developed areas where hunting isn't allowed

But in many rural parts, it works fine. Unregulated hunting exterminated white-tail deer in the southeast by the 1930s. The ones here now are the result of re-introductions.

[krispos42]

191. Regulated hunting is doing it just fine

Before deer hunting was regulated, in the early part of the 20th century, the deer population had been reduced to an estimated one million or so. Most of America was rural, and killing a deer kept your crops intact and your belly full.

With deer numbers slipping, hunting season and limits were introduced. Now the deer population is about 20 million and carefully maintained.

Oh, and we had done all that almost-to-extinction hunting with Civil War-surplus rifled muskets, single-shot breechloaders, and early lever-action rifles. No scopes, no rangefinders, no expanding bullets, no high-velocity flat-shooting bullets. Just iron sights and skill.

That remnent of history lives on with muzzleloader-only seasons in some states.

[Change has come]

157. Are farmers eager

To see the the wolf, cougar and grizzly bear return to their native habitat?

[northofdenali]

179. I am a hunter, a member of the Sierra Club,

and am totally against predator control for the purposes of keeping up the meat population. I also am a member of Defenders of Wildlife, several cat rescue organizations, local dog rescue clubs and I abhor the maltreatment of all animals.

I am also an omnivore, and like meat. I'd rather that meat be obtained, and used, naturally - by hunting, butchering and storing it myself, instead of going to a grocery store where I have no idea what's in it, where it's from, how it was raised or slaughtered.

Where are your credentials?

[krispos42]

281. "Nature has ways of taking care of these things"

Yeah, nature does, and it's not pretty.






Oh, and look... men with high-powered rifles that ARE part of it!!!





Guess what? When this kind of starvation happens in the forest, to the deer and elk and other animals, it's not plastered all over the front page. George Clooney doesn't do a TV commercial for it. Ads are not taken out in US News and World Report.

No, the only people that see it are... HUNTERS!

[northofdenali]

178. Torturing and killing animals?

Been to a meat farm, chicken ranch or slaughterhouse lately? Hunting is a MUCH cleaner method of gleaning meat for the table.

[krispos42]

186. Cost of a deer rifle cartridge: $1.25

If you buy the higher-end stuff. I think you can still get the cheaper stuff for less than a buck a round.

And for that five quarters you get dozens of pounds of meat. Many hunters gut, skin, and butcher their own animals, so the parts are 'ready to cook' at the local homeless chelter.

How much can you buy with $1.25? Pound of grapes? Two pounds of pasta?

And hunting animals is a crucial part of wildlife management. Unless you like herds of starving animals? Or more car/deer collisions?

[krispos42]

185. He's implying that vegetarians would have a problem feeding them meat

Since most vegetarians seem to be that way for ethical reasons, this would be an extension of that.

[liberalpress]

196. Three weeks ago I became a vegan..

It was for health reasons. I have certain conditions that can be addressed by eliminating animal products from my diet. No big deal. Before that I was a carnivore. No big deal. We all eat what we eat. What's important is that we give what we don't eat (in other words - stop being selfish with your food) to the those who have no food. You give meat. I give vegetables. They get food. Stop yelling at each other and take a carload to your nearest shelter. Now. Sheesh!

[krispos42]

270. You are the exception that proves the rule.

I heard on a TV show recently it was explained as "nothing with a face", when talking about veganism. That stuck in my mind because I thought it was a very concise explaination of the vegan diet.

[Auggie]

16. Like donating meat makes it morally okay to shoot something with a gun

Whoever gets sport out of that has a mixed-up sense of priorities. They're shooting animals because it gives them a cheap thrill. Donating the meat makes it "all right." It's the hypocrisy that annoys me.

[Rosemary2205]

20. Here the state actually hires people to thin out the deer population.

Now and again there is an overpopulation of deer which is not good for the deer. If they get a thrill by putting food on someone's table then more power to them IMHO. -- and most hunters are moving toward bow hunting.

Unless you'd rather kill all the people, burn down the houses and plant trees so the herd can have the woods back...........

[jilln]

22. There are other ways.

Saying they need to thin the herd is hunter propaganda.

[AngryAmish]

25. Hunters do not want to thin the herd

[IA_Seth]

30. I beg to differ.

I hunt, and I hunt specifically to help manage the herd. No, not 'thin' the herd, that doesn't even make sense and taken at it's face value sounds cruel to me. But an unmanaged (un-hunted) herd of deer in modern times would soon grow to proportions that the land itself couldn't sustain and the deer population would soon be plagued with malnutrition and disease. This is due to a loss of 'natural' predators and an increase in the type of habitat that spurs deer population growth.

Say what you will for yourself, but don't even try to speak for me as a hunter.

[Rosemary2205]

35. Yes my wording was not great

sorry about that.

[AngryAmish]

48. I mispoke/mistyped

Hunters want a large healthy population. They do not want to wantonly kill just for the hell of it. I agree with what you are saying.

[IA_Seth]

50. Great..

I re-read my post and I did come across a little pissy...sorry for that. It's frustrating for people that don't understand mid-west culture (especially rural culture) to make claims about hunter and their motivations.

[Critters2]

120. Why not return predator species to your area? nt

[Egalitariat]

128. Hunters are probably the best predator species***

nm

[Critters2]

130. But not a part of the natural ecology. nt

[piedmont]

137. Yeah, they are. Unless you're a creationist...

you know that humans and human ancestors have been hunting animals for millenia.

[Critters2]

140. Not with high-powered rifles, and not in all the areas where they're doing it today.

And certainly not in such numbers.

[piedmont]

144. So we should use our hands, then?

What areas do you mean? North America has been hunted for the last 13,000 years or so.

And certainly not in such numbers.
What's your point? That we should have fewer hunters? Even though the current number of hunters is not a threat to the survival of the game species in North America?

[Critters2]

145. Try it with spears. That's what your ancestors did.

Please don't tell me rifles are natural.

[piedmont]

148. But spears aren't *natural*!

Please don't tell me rifles are natural.

I'm not. But the act of hunting is.

[mondo joe]

153. You cannot go against nature, cause if you do it's prrobably nature too. NT

[Norrin Radd]

183. Love and Rockets fan?

...No New Tale to Tell
You cannot go against nature
Because when you do
Go against nature
It's part of nature too...

[DarkTirade]

184. Riiight, then we're back to torturing animals.

I'm fairly certain stabbing a deer over and over with a spear until it dies is a bit less humane than a single bullet.

[Lasher]

194. Now I'm confused.

So I guess the slow death by spearpoint is supposed to be a step in the right direction because it's more 'natural'. And getting dragged down by a pack of wolves is more traumatic on average than getting shot with a gun. I'm pretty sure the deer does not appreciate the distinction of being killed the good old fashioned way.

[DarkTirade]

238. Those silly deer

I guess they just can't appreciate the natural cycle. :sarcasm:

[krispos42]

193. Projectile weapons go back a long way

And it was all over the country.

The number of people hunting is managed as a direct proportion of the deer population. The numbers are 'enough' any given year.

Keep in mind that the vast prairies and forests of America have been cultivated, making a buffet for deer. More food for deer plus regulated hunting seasons mean a larger deer population. There are probably more deer alive now than could have existed without humans getting involved.

[EstimatedProphet]

201. Let alone the trash of suburbia, along with the gardens

Deer love that too

[krispos42]

273. Exactly

The fact remains that we have done more and better with the land (overall) than if Columbus had gone back to Spain and said the Earth ended at a waterfall (a la The Meaning of Life).

[northofdenali]

180. We still have 'em, and I welcome them -

and it's usually the TROPHY HUNTING GANG that wants them out. Makes it easier to fly in , kill a big-racked moose or 'bou, leave the meat on the ground, and fly back to the Lower 48 with their trophy don't ya know.

I wish to god Alaska would put a complete moratorium on trophy hunters. AND most commercial fishermen. AND trappers (you don't eat that meat).

[TX-RAT]

280. leave the meat on the ground, and fly back to the Lower 48

That is completely untrue. Not only is it a federal and state law in the US, it's also law in Canada. You must utilize the meat. Either use it yourself or donate to one of the local tribes. It is an arrestable offence.

[TX-RAT]

32. What are the other ways?

How much do they cost?

[jilln]

74. birth control for one

"The PZP vaccine was shown to block pregnancies in captive white-tailed deer as early as 1990. Since that time, numerous projects have been mounted with free-roaming deer in MD, NJ, NY, CT, WA, VA and OH. The two largest projects are on Fire Island National Seashore, NY, where approximately 215 deer are treated annually over a 6 year period, and on the campus of the National Institute of Standards and Technology, in MD, where more than 150 deer have been treated over a 8 year period."

from http://www.pzpinfo.org/application.html

But actually, deer populations stabilize themselves according to the food supply. When they are hunted, they have more babies to make up for it. Which is good for hunters, because they then have the excuse that there's an "overpopulation" again.


From http://www.hsus.org/wildlife/issues_facing_wildlife/hunting/learn_the_facts_about_hunting.html

Wildlife, to a large degree, will naturally regulate its own populations if permitted, eliminating any need for hunting as a means of population control. Discussions about supposed wildlife overpopulation problems apply primarily to deer. Hunters often claim that hunting is necessary to control deer populations. As practiced, however, hunting often contributes to the growth of deer herds. Heavily hunted states like Pennsylvania and Ohio, for instance, are among those experiencing higher deer densities than perhaps ever before. When an area's deer population is reduced by hunting, the remaining animals respond by having more young, which survive because the competition for food and habitat is reduced. Since one buck can impregnate many does, policies which permit the killing of bucks contribute to high deer populations. If population control were the primary purpose for conducting deer hunts, hunters would only be permitted to kill does. This is not the case, however, because hunters demand that they be allowed to kill bucks for their antlers.

[TX-RAT]

82. "The PZP vaccine was shown to block pregnancies

Wonder what it would cost to vaccinate several million deer?

Are you familiar with the process of capturing and handling wild deer? It's very costly and the mortality rate is high due to the animals going into shock.


(deer populations stabilize themselves according to the food supply)

No actually they abuse their food supplies until they've over run them, and then they either starve to death or disease sets in.



(Wildlife, to a large degree, will naturally regulate its own populations if permitted, eliminating any need for hunting as a means of population control.)

Wow, you've learned how to cut and paste from biased if not bogus articles. It's actually the hunter who have been trying to get states to take more does out of the population. It's the state's own regulations that have led to most of the population problems.

(This is not the case, however, because hunters demand that they be allowed to kill bucks for their antlers.)

Once again you are wrong, hunter have no say so in what they can take. those regulations and guidelines are determined by the various states.

[EstimatedProphet]

96. Exactly

Unlike the original poster you're replying to, I've actually captured and handled deer for research purposes. The idea of managing a herd using PZP is laughably asinine. Are we ready to expand all the state and federal wildlife management agencies by 10,000%? That's what it would take to do something like that.

Another thing that they don't realize is how much urban/suburban areas develop deer populations on their own. Management of the population will never look at those animals, and those areas will act as a reservoir to keep populations too high.

[IA_Seth]

38. See post #30 n/t

[EstimatedProphet]

45. Name them.

[Odin2005]

54. Bullshit.

You PETA wackos need to quit inventing you own facts, you guys are as bad as the creationists and the climate change denialists when it comes to facts it seems...

[BOSSHOG]

56. Seconded

I live in rural Mississippi and thinning the herd is best for the herd. It certainly isn't hunter propaganda; its good wildlife management. To prove that point, I suggest a moratorium on hunting for ten years. Helluva way to prove a point.

[Virginia Dare]

60. Yep, here in Northern Virginia...

we have a serious problem with deer overpopulation, causes a lot of serious car wrecks, and suffering on the part of the animals. They are talking about sterilization and controlled hunting. In fact the deer population in Virginia is higher now than it was in colonial times.

[TX-RAT]

62. deer population in Virginia is higher now than it was in colonial times.

Not sure, it's not higher now than it's ever been in the US.

[BlackVelvet04]

117. A couple of years ago, during the drought

the Blue Ridge Parkway was extremely dangerous to drive because of the deer population.

[karlrschneider]

76. Thirded from rural Oklahoma. We see as you likely do far too many as roadkill.

And many that are struck by vehicles are mortally injured and suffer for hours or days. Cars tend to
get badly bent as well. :eyes:

[northofdenali]

181. Fourth that from Alaska - and we don't HAVE many roads!

Moose v. Humvee? Moose wins..... well, maybe there IS a good argument for too many of the critters....

[LTR]

214. Thirded, if there is such a word

I live in Wisconsin, where deer populations occasionally skyrocket. When there's too many deer (due to a lack of many natural predators and an increase in favorable surroundings for them), they become traffic hazards, disease spreads, and the ecosystem goes out of whack. Same goes for some fish and various species of birds.

I don't hunt, but I have respect for many of them. The ethical hunters are pretty concerned when it comes to the environment, and also have a strong respect for guns, so much that they don't often abuse it. They don't go around playing 'wild west' and get into violent urban gang wars. They also instill this ethic in their children. Besides, many hunters are very in-tune with the environment and nature. They are concerned about global change.

Sure, hunting doesn't sound pretty, but considering where deer are placed in the food chain, this is almost a natural process (if you ever watch the nature shows on TV involving large cats or reptiles and hooved animals it all makes sense). And the animals that wind up in the grocery store suffer much more than the ones that are hunted.

[Conan_The_Barbarian]

59. yes of course

don't you know every statistic that opposes your views in some way are propaganda and lies?

[BlackVelvet04]

114. Bullshit.....

I don't hunt but I know there are times the herd has to be thinned. We had a drought a couple of years ago and the deer were hunting for water and food. Guess where they ended up? Roadkill.

I love deer as I do all animals but sometimes the population DOES have to be thinned.

[Auggie]

26. I've heard that rational before

It's the thrill from the kill that gives me the chill

(sorry, couldn't resist)

[Rosemary2205]

27. Don't you love it when

words just come together like that! LOL :)

[TX-RAT]

28. Well said.

"If they get a thrill by putting food on someones table then more power to them IMHO."

[IA_Seth]

23. Oh, now i get it..

So ALL of the meat-eaters out there are just sick, twisted souls who enjoy killing things? Is that honestly your position?

There is no hypocrisy here at all, I eat what I kill.

[EstimatedProphet]

44. Pathetic

You actually think that hunters masturbate when they shoot a deer. they get all giddy, and then go over and stomp on the deer for fun. Maybe they dance on the deer's grave.

And then you talk about hypocrisy.

[TX-RAT]

49. Thank you.

[Critters2]

121. They do get all giddy. I've seen it firsthand. Most creepy. nt

[EstimatedProphet]

164. Yes. Of course you have.

[RegimeChange2008]

167. Well, Ted Nugent probably does

He seems like the type who would masturbate over a dead animal. Or worse.........

[EstimatedProphet]

168. Actually, you're right about Ted Nugent

I am not Ted Nugent. I don't know anybody who is Ted Nugent.

If people hold all hunters responsible for Ted Nugent, how is that different than holding all Democrats responsible for Lyndon LaRouche? Or all women responsible for Ann Coulter?

[northofdenali]

182. No shit, EP -

Anyone who's actually out there in the nasty weather, many miles from their tranpsportation (usually a boat, in my case), in the wet (that's the way of the season) trying to haul out 1000 pounds of moose doesn't usually beat off in anticipation.

The idea of a full freezer does make for some happiness, though, especially knowing I won't be paying a Repuke supermarket chain for meat that winter.

It appears that ms. mycritters thinks like those big-city gals, despite claiming to have been rurally raised.........

Not that big city gals are all like that :evilgrin:, right SoCalDem? :hug:

[frogcycle]

52. Well, if you don't kill them with guns

you'd better find some cougars, wolves, etc. to kill them, because we have so screwed over the balance that we are overrun with deer.

I personally would not like shooting a deer; I'd much rather throw the switch on electrocuting pedophiles. But the deer need to be culled, and herding them together and whacking them over the head as is done with cattle would not be any less lethal - just harder.

As to "morally okay" - morals are whatever one wants to define them as. yours are yours and mine are mine. I keep mine to myself.

[JCMach1]

53. Sorry, but the deer have to die one way or another...

Is it better to have them die of overpopulation and disease?

[cgrindley]

81. Shooting your dinner is no more morally challenging than uses pruning

shears to cut greens. Food is food.

[Zynx]

95. This state has way too many deer. They need to be shot.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

231. The planet has way too many people

Shoot them too?

[EstimatedProphet]

251. I would prefer birth control...

[RevolutionStartsNow]

260. for the deer, or the people?

:)

[EstimatedProphet]

261. For the people

I would have no problem using birth control to manage the deer, if it were even remotely feasible.

[krispos42]

192. Not wasting the meat makes it okay

The animals are not endangered, and they are tasty.

And contrary to the attitude you seem to feel about hunting, it's serious business. A lot of work goes into getting to the point where you an pull the trigger, and even more goes into finding, gutting, and transporting the carcass.

If you do not have a problem eating meat, then you don't have a problem with the concept of hunting. Most people don't do it, for reasons that are their own. But a fair number of people do, also for reasons that are their own.

[Rosemary2205]

17. The soup kitchen thread comes to mind.

Some soup kitchen in France deliberately serving only pork soup at the homeless shelter because they know muslims don't normally eat pork. DU came all unglued about how the place should be shut down for it's insensitivity so that no one gets any help.

[mondo joe]

156. If a food kitchen only served something intended to exclude it's a problem.

Having some deer to feed some doesn't mean an agency is excluding others.

[cgrindley]

79. Good for the hunters, venison is da bomb

Da taste bomb that is. Nothing is better than game. People should stop being so queasy about hunting. It's a great way to get organic chow and it actually tastes like something other than pressboard and doesn't shrivel the soul like a diet of vegetation.

[slackmaster]

4. IBVATDS

In Before Vegan Activists Threaten Discrimination Suit.

[mainegreen]

19. Huzzah!

Viva La Liberte!

[doodadem]

8. This sounds magnanimous, until

Until you find out that deer are now also suspected of carrying Johne's Disease. It apparently affects all ruminants (animals with multiple stomachs).

We had to put our pet Brahma steer down last year because it had contracted Johne's (google it). This disease has no vaccine, no cure, and it's always fatal. Symptoms show up a few years after the animal has been exposed, they include chronic wasting and constant, massive diarrhea. Our guy was exposed to it by our no good neighbors trespassing cattle on our farm. Our vet says if people really knew how prevalent this disease is (80% infection rate in the dairy industry according to some estimates), they'd be up in arms. It's a very big deal down in the Valley, which is mostly dairy (the farmers have to have two sets of equipment, one for symptomatic animals, the other for the symptom free). However, it's just about as prevalent among beef cattle.

The good news? Johne's Disease is now being linked to Crohn's Disease in people. Like Mad Cow Disease is being linked to Alzheimer's. I would not eat beef, or deer meat, for anything anymore.

[TX-RAT]

12. No problems here.

Non reported that i've heard of.

[Sequoia]

15. Let's hope the deer don't have "scrapie".

Some do, all over the USA. It's those "cakes" hunters put out for them that are made with animal parts.

[TX-RAT]

18. It's those "cakes" hunters put out

Never heard of those. Can you supply some info?

[sybylla]

29. In deer it's called Chronic Wasting Disease, not "scrapie"

And any "cakes" made with animal parts intended to be fed to deer would be illegal in Wisconsin under baiting and feeding regulations. It would also make no sense when corn is dirt cheap here.

Unfortunately, we do have CWD in this state (the first state east of the Mississippi discovered in about 1999) in certain south central and south western parts thanks to Tommy Thompson. His administration made sure regulations were relaxed on importing deer from game farms in western states to game farms here. Wouldn't want to impede capitalism, now, would we?

Animals from the parts of the state where CWD is known to exist as well as neighboring areas are heavily tested. IIRC, all meat donated to pantries is also tested for free by the state.

[Sequoia]

40. Thank you, I knew there was an offical name.

I finshed a book recently called "The Family That Couldn't Sleep" that talked about the history of scrapie and other similar diseases. The family in question had a type of this and they could not sleep to save their lives, and many died raving mad tied to beds. I highly recommned it. It talks about mad cow too which I think is in our cows and food. It takes years to come to light. But of course those cattle barons in Texas will admit to it. Another book on this subject I read a few years back by a French author was called "Why The Cows Went Mad" (something along those lines.)

[TX-RAT]

37. "cakes"

I've been in the hunting, ranching and game management business for over 25 year and i know of no cakes or any other supplemental feed for deer that contains animal byproducts.

[karlrschneider]

39. I've been a hunter for more than twice as long as you and I never heard of them either.

...
edit to add:

And I would be VERY surprised if a deer would touch them anyway.

[Sequoia]

43. Mad Cow Disease Has U.S. Cousin: Illness affects deer and elk in Rocky Mountains

http://www.mad-cow.org/~tom/nov_update.html

scroll down

"in other areas of Colorado deer and elk are routinely fed protein cake during the winter to compenstate for loss of winter range. Miller's department derives its revenue from hunting tags and thus is potentially conflicted in its public advisory capacity. There is potential exposure to the hunter in cutting through spinal cord of an infected animal"

[Rosemary2205]

46. Read the whole page.

the link makes it clear the disease isn't spread through a food source.

And you do know plants provide protein??

[karlrschneider]

47. They are not made of animal protein.

...

[Shallah Kali]

174. CSU scientists find disease can spread in deer saliva, blood oct '06 article

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5046983,00.html

The CSU team used about a dozen deer that were kept indoors to ensure they couldn't get CWD from any source but the variables used in the study.

One group of deer were given the saliva of known infected deer to ingest. Parts of their tonsils were then clipped and tested for the presence of the abnormal prions that comprise CWD. Some had the disease in three months, others got it within a year.

A second group injected with the blood of infected deer also developed the disease. That means, according to researchers, that CWD can spread throughout a deer's body and throughout its flesh, albeit in smaller concentrations than in the brain and tonsils.

It also means that CWD possibly could be transferred through the bite of a mosquito.

I remember reading there have been problems with domestic deer herds having CWD. Deer jump the fence and if it is an infected one it would pass it on to the wild ones. And now I see a simliar disease has been found in Moose


Mad Cow-Like Disease Spreading to Moose
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_3460.cfm

[AngryAmish]

21. Backstory on this

In central Wisconsin many deer have been diagnosed with Chronic Wasting Disease - just like scrapie, etc. It was first detected in elk in Idaho (I think). Anyway, there is a massive overpopulation of deer in Wisconsin. In many areas you have to shoot does before you are allowed to take a buck. Some have had long seasons, etc.

So more deer are getting shot (does usually are not shot) to try to reduce the population. Fewer deer means less chronic wasting disease. Nobody is overjoyed about eating suspect deer (even if proven safe outside of brain and spinal cords). So they donated to the homeless.

[Decruiter]

70. Hunters still like to hunt, just not so enthusiastic about eating venison themselves.

Lots of info on CWD.

The Capital Times


DNR says its efforts on CWD have failed
By Anita Weier

October 26, 2006
The leader of the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources admitted Wednesday that the department will have to do things differently if the state is to avoid statewide negative effects of chronic wasting disease in deer.

"The sobering conclusion of the department's CWD leaders is that we have not made as much progress as we would have hoped in managing this disease," DNR Secretary Scott Hassett told the Natural Resources Board in a written and verbal report.

The fatal brain wasting disease has spread through much of southern Wisconsin in the years since it was first discovered in an area near Mount Horeb in 2002.

That's despite increased hunting time, no bag limits, free tags, allowing landowners in the core CWD area to hunt on their own property for $2, economic incentives for hunters, food pantry donations, and tests of deer carcasses to assure hunters that the deer can be eaten. The DNR has spent $26.8 million trying to fight the disease.

"Wildlife disease researchers are telling us that if we are not able to aggressively snuff out disease sparks in the herd reduction zone, then we can't hope to contain the disease, much less eradicate it," Hassett said.

for rest of article

http://www.cwd.cc/DNR_says_its_efforts_on_CWD_have_failed.htm

also see www.maddeer.org

www.wildlifeprotection.net/deer/deermeatkills.html


I find it disturbing to see possibly contaminated meat being "given" to food pantrys without being tested.

[Critters2]

122. Let 'em eat cake, err, venison! That's generous. nt

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. That's Awesome! Good For Them! I Thank Them And Anyone Else Who Donates To Such Causes.

Thanks for the article. I always like seeing people reach out to others.

[spinbaby]

42. Sad, really

Here we are, supposedly the wealthiest country on earth, and we have people who have to depend on food donations to eat.

[TX-RAT]

51. Best comment in the thread.

[slackmaster]

57. Yes, if only we were more like Cuba

Where people depend on food RATIONS to eat.

:sarcasm:

Seriously, can anyone name ONE country where there are no people who do not depend on some way on the largesse of others?

[EstimatedProphet]

202. Agreed

[BuyingThyme]

63. This program works because most hunters are hypocrites.

They play the live-off-the-land game, but really have no interest in eating the animals they kill.

If they actually valued the prize as much as they pretend, they wouldn't give it away.

[TX-RAT]

64. You obviously don't know many hunters.

[BuyingThyme]

66. I know many hunters, and encounter far more than I know.

I know that the VAST majority of ducks killed end up in dumpsters because "hunters" are too lazy to do the work necessary to eat them.

I know that the VAST majority of animals killed are small birds of any sort, which are no good for eating and serve as little more than entertainment for lazy, insecure men.

I know that "hunters" are responsible for the VAST majority of vandalism in public forests (and along rural highways, for that matter).

[TX-RAT]

71. At the risk of getting kicked off DU

What a complete load of horse shit.

I know that the VAST majority of ducks killed end up in dumpsters because "hunters" are too lazy to do the work necessary to eat them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
What your suggesting is a state and federal crime.


I know that the VAST majority of animals killed are small birds of any sort, which are no good for eating and serve as little more than entertainment for lazy, insecure men.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Name them! Most all bird species are protected in one way or another. Only edible birds have a yearly season.

I know that "hunters" are responsible for the VAST majority of vandalism in public forests (and along rural highways, for that matter).
--------------------------------------------------------------

I would ask for a link to support that ridiculous comment, but it would be a waste of my time.

[karlrschneider]

75. If you get kicked off for refuting a pack of lies, I volunteer to go too.

jesusfuckingchrist, some people...

[11 Bravo]

123. If you get kicked out, I'll leave with you.

This is pure, unadulterated, crap. As I posted earlier, I take one deer per season, and my family eats what I kill.

[Qanisqineq]

105. *snort*

I don't know where you're from, but where I grew up almost everyone hunted. In the fall, out-of-staters flocked to the are to hunt both ducks and deer. The ducks were not thrown into dumpsters. The hunters do not kill small birds. And vandalism? You really don't know hunters. I say you grew up in a place with a bunch of really stupid motherfuckers. And if the hunters were doing this, they would be getting fined. Game wardens are everywhere and you can't get away with shit. They really crack down on anything that is illegal.

I was a zoology major as an undergrad and we did learn that it is unfortunate but true: hunting is necessary because the natural predators are gone. Overpopulation leads to starvation and disease spreads more quickly. I guess that is a more humane way for them to die? I don't hunt and I belong to several wildlife conservation groups, but I have to admit hunting isn't some horrible, horrible thing.

[Raskolnik]

133. I know that the VAST majority of your post is utter bullshit. n/t

[EstimatedProphet]

169. I know that the VAST majority of your post is made up.

[karlrschneider]

73. That is bullshit. 99.9% of hunters do it for food.

Not everyone has industrial-size freezers.

[piedmont]

78. You smell that?

[frustrated_lefty]

113. You've obviously never been on the verge of starving.

[bearfan454]

259. Baloney.

I eat all 5 of my deer every year. I even trim the rib cages and neck meat for sausage at the butcher.

[TX-RAT]

282. You are a dedicated man, I'm proud of you.

(I even trim the rib cages and neck meat for sausage at the butcher.)

Not many know just how tedious a process that is.


Just remember, No more Bush Beans in your chili.

[JVS]

67. Cool

[Beelzebud]

68. Thats great. Don't mind the backlash from the holier-than-thou crusaders.

Sometimes this site can annoy the hell out of me.

This thread is one of those times.

Instead of just commenting about how it's good to feed hungry people, this basically turns into a flame fest where all hunters are branded freepers.

[TX-RAT]

72. No problem, I'm used to.

[Odin2005]

88. I'll bet most of these "animal rights nuts" are a bunch of naive city folk.

People who know jack about the wildlife they claim to be defending. Most of that "animal rights" BS is the ignorant sentimentalism of naive upper-middle class city slickers at best, a quasi-religious ideology at worst.

[Critters2]

124. You'd be wrong in my case. I've lived nearly all my life in very rural areas.

Nice guess, though.

[Name removed]

162. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EstimatedProphet]

171. There's a lot of things I think are evil

A war based on lies to take another country's economy is evil.

A corrupt judicial system that imprisons people based mostly on their skin color is evil.

An economic system that makes permanent slaves out of the majority in order to benefit a very few is evil.

Dick Cheney is evil. Jerry Falwell, Ann Coulter, and Bill O'Reilly are evil.

[Madspirit]

172. I agree

All those things you listed are evil. You are right.
Madspirit

[EstimatedProphet]

173. And I would expect everyone on DU would agree that they are

[Parche]

85. DEER ME

Poor Bambi!!!!!!!!!ha

[Odin2005]

86. Hunter's help the poor and all the PETA nuts can do is bash the hunters.

Goes to show where their priorities are, they put their sentimental delusions above helping the poor.

I am sick and tired of, and am deeply offended by, us hunters being called "evil," "twisted," and "sick," by the "animal rights" wackos. Me, and most other hunters I know, care deeply about nature and the environment. I learned to hunt from my stepdad, who never ceased to remind me to respect all living things.

[Auggie]

87. Hunters still get a reward out of it, otherwise they wouldn't bother

[piedmont]

91. If I buy 100 cans of soup to donate, I'm also getting a reward.

Same goes if I donate a bushel of turnip greens I grew in my garden. You want people to NOT get a reward out of the process of procuring food for others?

[Auggie]

92. I don't mean the donation. I mean the hunting.

[EstimatedProphet]

97. Did a hunter beat up your dad or something?

You are so convinced that all hunters are evil. How many do you know, really? How many DU HUNTERS do you know? Are we all monsters too, just because we do something you don't know anything about?

[karlrschneider]

99. !

:D

[Auggie]

104. Beat up my dad? That's kind of funny. I never said hunters are evil...

I said hunters are obviously getting some kind of reward (or thrill or benefit or rush or some kind of rationalization -- whatever you want to call it) out of killing something.
It's an odd concept to some of us non-hunters.

[MyNameGoesHere]

138. Nope you said fun n/t

[Auggie]

142. Reward, thrill, benefit, rush, rationalization, OR FOR FUN...

they are not doing it because they hate it!

[piedmont]

146. I don't give to canned good drives for the joy of buying soup.

[Auggie]

150. Gotta run, piedmont. Come to wine country and we'll talk this over a good

glass of Chardonnay and a plate of tofu. Happy weekend.

[piedmont]

152. Sounds good to me. I love both tofu and Chardonnay. nt

[EstimatedProphet]

165. Hate and thrill are the only two options?

When I used to hunt, I did it to be close to nature. I got as much enjoyment out of seeing nongame animals as gamen animals, and I didn't care that much about whether I got something to take home.

[MyNameGoesHere]

166. I did and i never liked it

so maybe you should not try to speak for every hunter huh?

[piedmont]

100. I get a reward out of cleaning the junk out of my garage. Then I donate some of it...

and get a reward out of the donation. The donation in this case is a by-product of an activity I pursued for my own ends. But the money that the thrift store makes from selling the stuff I gave them still helps someone eat.

[tammywammy]

93. Doesn't everyone get a reward out of donating to charity?

I know I feel good when I donate a garbage bag full of clothes.

I know I feel good when I put that check in the mail for AIDS research.

So, since I "get a reward out of it," does that mean I shouldn't donate to charity?

[Critters2]

132. Respect them by killing them. Please, please, don't respect me. nt

[Madspirit]

103. I actually was homeless

...for years and I would go hungry before I would eat a murdered animal. It's not just about the animal either. It's what it shows about the person...that they could enjoy such a thing. Blech.
Madspirit

[piedmont]

106. So you're a vegan, then?

[Madspirit]

107. Yup I am n/t

[LeftyMom]

158. Isn't it fun when people ask that question expecting some sort of gotcha?

I love when that happens. :D

[piedmont]

159. I expected nothing one way or the other

I was hoping she was not being a major hypocrite, though. And was glad she wasn't.

[Madspirit]

161. Hi to Lefty Mom...

Yup...I do love that.
Madspirit

[Cobalt Violet]

197. Same here!

I would also go hungry before I would ever eat meat. Many nights at the soup kitchen there was nothing I would eat. Nothing. I don't remember ever eating any soy protien the entire time.

[frustrated_lefty]

112. Good for them! Forget the holier-than-thous!

[proud patriot]

151. Awesome

:applause:

[LeftyMom]

160. Presuamably becase the "game museum" in a buddy's basement loophole was closed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/16/AR2005111602180.html

Instead they'll take huge tax breaks by overvaluing their "donation" to the nearest food locker. Saints, I tell you.

:boring:

[Name removed]

163. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[northofdenali]

175. I WISH more vegans/vegetarians and those

with gardens and/or stored frozen or canned veggies would donate to our local food banks and such. I know from experience that you get veggies only if they're commercially canned and yes, with proper provenance, our food bank accepts home-canned or frozen goods.

My stepdaughter could sure have used the help during her pregnancy. She got plenty of meat, milk and the like, but really needed the fruits and veggies. Most of what she got, we bought or gave her out of our pantry (yes, I can and freeze from my garden and the farmer's market).

I don't agree with hunting UNLESS for food. But we will always have "sport" hunters with us, and if they are donating their prey for food, fine. Trophy hunters are beneath contempt.

On edit: "wild" meat is MUCH better for you than farmed about 98% of the time, and those who eat meat but disagree with hunting for same should visit a stockyard sometime.

[Critters2]

244. I served on the board of an org whose mission was to get locally grown,

fresh, seasonal produce to low-income people. We took produce to food pantries, WIC centers, and provided vouchers so that low-income people could buy at Farmers Markets. This is a national movement known as "Plant a Row for the Hungry". It's usually organized by county extension offices. If your community doesn't have one, contact your extension agent.

[VenusRising]

198. That's a great story.

I'm glad that hunters are able to do something to put food on the table for others. There is something special about sitting down to a meal that was all gathered by my family. Good on them.

:applause:

[Madspirit]

203. Rural

52, grew up in rural Texas. Have known how to shoot since I was about 9. Vegan and I think hunting is murder.

[MyNameGoesHere]

211. It's probably

a good thing we cannot hear plants talk. Someone might accuse you of killing them . Wouldn't that be a bitch that we one day find out that plants don't like to be killed.

[Madspirit]

213. carrot and deer

If you can't tell the difference between a carrot and a deer it's your problem, not mine.
However, I do know vegans who only eat plants that don't have to be killed to eat. You don't rip up the whole tomato plant to eat a tomato, for instance. ...and I don't just gratuitously kill plants, either. Some people like to murder. Some of us don't.
Madspirit

[MyNameGoesHere]

229. Carrot

A root vegetable, descended from the wild carrot (Queen Anne's Lace) which grows widely in fields and roadsides of northern temperate climates in both Europe and North America. Both the root and the leafy stems of this vegetable are edible, highly nutritious and delicious.


Deer

A deer is a ruminant mammal belonging to the family Cervidae. A number of broadly similar animals, from related families within the order Artiodactyla, are often also called deer.

Ok you were wrong on that one. Now YOU PROVE to me that carrots don't have cells that may or may not feel pain when they are "murdered" by someone chomping on them and then being digested by stomach juices. Until then you murder plants.

[Name removed]

232. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yewberry]

239. No central nervous system.

No nerves. No axons. No brain or ganglion for pain impulses to go to. No evolutionary pressure for sessile organisms to develop any kind of flight mechanism.

[Critters2]

243. Corn, wheat, soybeans and others live out their natural lives before being harvested.

They're annuals, and are harvested after the plant has died. Not many carnivores eat cows that died of old age.

[EstimatedProphet]

253. What do you think carrion eaters eat?

Raccoon - facultative carrion eater

Vulture - carrion eater

Hyena - carrion eater

Really, do you think cows sit around forever after they die?

[Critters2]

242. More plants are killed producing meat than are eaten as plants

16 lbs of grain to produce a pound of beef. So, you're arguing against eating meat.

[piedmont]

247. Not all meat is beef. Have you forgotten this is a venison thread?

By the way, deer (and grass-fed cows) typically graze plants, which doesn't actually kill the plant.

[Critters2]

248. I thought plants felt pain!! Or does that only happen when they're eaten by vegetarians?!

[piedmont]

249. Did I say anything about pain?

I addressed killing, the subject of your post I replied to.

[MyNameGoesHere]

268. Naw

arguing against people accusing hunters and meat eaters as murderers and the tendency that they get a pass on what they say.

[MyNameGoesHere]

269. And against

ignorance. I love how people want to tell you what , where , when and how to eat. lol No wonder glass house sales keep declining.

[krispos42]

279. Historically, livestock has been used to convert uneatable plants into human food

In lieu of trying to grow crops in rocky and/or poor soil, you let the livestock wander around and eating what they will, and when the time is right, butcher them and eat them.

The deer, in this case, wander around the woods and prairies eating both crops and non-cultivated plants and turn that into meat. Once a year, we go harvest that meat with a rifle or bow.

[piedmont]

284. An excellent point, krispos nt

[Vidar]

215. I'm not a big fan of hunting, but this is a very good thing they've done.

[aikoaiko]

216. I am venison needy -- please send donations.

:)

[OxQQme]

217. Here's your store bought meat

http://hightowerdownload.com/node/26

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

220. I thought there had been a "mad cow" type degenerative neurologic disease from venison that I'd

read about, either from Wisconsin or Minnesota or thereabouts, a little while ago.

Anything to this?

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=136873

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=15681

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20021130/bob9.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venison

[Madspirit]

233. I Hate...

Master Baiters and will be using my Ignore freely and often.

[piedmont]

234. Is there a point to this post other than to insult those with whom you disagree?

[Madspirit]

236. nothing to do with disagreement.

It has to do with bullies and baiters and people who are cruel and who make fun of people.
BIG DIFFERENCE.
Madspirit

[piedmont]

237. Where on this thread do you see anyone being cruel or making fun of another poster?

Or is the mere support of hunting evidence of cruelty to you?

[Madspirit]

240. right

...because when people post serious concerns about hunting, posts about carrots are real fucking sincere. Right. THAT is the definition of baiting.
Madspirit

[piedmont]

246. Uh, *you* are the only one on this thread who has brought up carrots.

try again.

[Name removed]

250. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

252. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EstimatedProphet]

255. I'm sorry I was bullying you

by pointing out the fact that you call people who disagree with you names.

You were calling people names. You started it. Don't deny it, because it can easily be proved by looking at the deleted posts and seeing which post number they were. By definition, calling names is calling people out.

And also, this is a criticism of your POST, and your POSTING BEHAVIOR. Don't try to claim that it is a criticism of YOU, like namecalling is.

[EstimatedProphet]

241. On this thread you have called several people names

You have made hyperbolic statements equating hunting to murder, meaning, in case you don't get it, that hunters are murderers. Then there have been several cases of outright name calling, all because you don't agree with the poster.

Not one single person on this thread has made personal attacks on you.

Yet we're the bullies. WE'RE the ones making fun of people.

Please invest in a mirror.

[madrchsod]

245. cool---deer eating flame fest!

nothing better than 3lb deer roast slow cooked with herbs and wine..

[slackmaster]

274. This thread inspired me to buy some vennison jerky this morning

It's expensive but tastes incredible.

[philosophie_en_rose]

254. Sounds good to me.

I'm not a fan of hunting, but the meat exists and it's safe. No need to waste it, if there is a need.