Hypothetical Presidential Election: Pro-Choice Republican vs. Pro-Life (i.e. Anti-Choice) Democrat

[LBJDemocrat]

Poll question: Hypothetical Presidential Election: Pro-Choice Republican vs. Pro-Life (i.e. Anti-Choice) Democrat

Who would you vote for and why? Assume that the Repub's politics are solidly right-wing like Giuliani and that the opposite is true of the Democrat.

EDIT: To clarify, the GOP platform would be anti-labor, pro-interventionist, and anti-government spending on social programs. The Democratic platform would be the opposite.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

1. Pro-Life Democrat

I don't see abortion is an ideological issue. The parties are aligned based on economic policy.

[Warren DeMontague]

7. Maybe you would see it as an ideological issue if the government were trying to establish

a de facto police presence in your nuts, as opposed to 150 million womens' uterii.

[Chulanowa]

11. A pro-life Democrat is not the same as a Pro-life Republican

The first is far more likely to regard stance on abortion as a purely personal issue. The second, however, is guaranteed to try to force their personal opinion into legislation.

I'd much rather have a Democrat who says "I don't agree with Abortion", than a Fascist of any sort.

'Course it's a dealbreaker of that Democrat also wants to make it law, but, hey. Just saying one can be pro-life WITHOUT being pro-legislation.

[LBJDemocrat]

14. Very true

Especially when you consider that a president's main power in this matter is through the Supreme Court, and I can't imagine someone like Casey appointing a Clarence Thomas.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. Saying "I don't agree with abortion" isn't the "pro-life" position. Saying "I want to OUTLAW it"

is the "pro-life" position.

A candidate who is "against abortion" yet not inclined to use the government to interfere with womens' right to choose is PRO CHOICE.

[Chulanowa]

46. Pro-Choice is not the diametric opposite of pro-life

That's simply an illusion the right has cooked up to make "pro choice" sound like "murderer".

However, when the argument is framed in right-wing simplistic terms as "pro life vs. pro-choice" rather than pro / anti-abortion, you'll have to excuse those of us who get a little muddled :)

[Warren DeMontague]

47. Pro life is more accurately called anti-choice.

The question isn't whether or not you LIKE abortion or personally approve of it; the question is, do you want the government forcing women to remain pregnant against their will-- do you want doctors and women thrown in jail.

[Orsino]

56. Anti-abortion. Let's call it what it is.

They support our right to choose not to have an abortion.

[Warren DeMontague]

72. Only problem with that phrasing is that people get the misconception that if they are personally

against abortion, yet don't want to outlaw it for others, then they're not pro-choice.

You can be personally against abortion yet not want to legislate other people's choices- that's a pro-choice position.

[Orsino]

75. These'll be the ones with the blank picket signs...

...muttering to themselves. :D

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

20. No. I wouldn't see it as an ideological issue

The pukes used to have no problem with abortion. As soon as they played culture war on this, they started getting the traditionally left-wing christian-populist left.

American Liberalism, to me, is about making sure we build a great country that is compassionate and in tune with the needs of its common citizens.

I guess the ultra-rich may think differently.

[Warren DeMontague]

26. First off, the Majority of Americans are PRO CHOICE. So if this issue is a loser for anyone

it's them, not us.

I'm glad you've decided what "American Liberalism" stands for in your own mind. In MY mind, labels aside, I'm interested in preserving and expanding individual freedom, protecting the environment, rebuilding our infrastructure and establishing a decent social safety net that includes a SPHC system and a liveable minimum wage. But personal freedom, getting government out of people's lives, bodies, and bloodstreams, respecting the constitution, separation of church and state, and Civil Liberties: Those aren't back burner issues for me, they're pretty much the whole stove.

So whether you want to call that "liberalism", "libertarianism", "progressive" "not progressive" or I don't care what, for myself and a great many like me, things like Roe v. Wade are deal breakers: And if the ONLY way we're can appeal to the "traditionally left-wing christian-populist left" is to abandon the gays, the pro-choicers, the atheists and the urban secular libertarian wing of our party-- I think either the so-called traditionally left-wing christian-populist left needs to find a different set of issues and priorities to get all wrung out about, or we need to find a different "all important constituency" to help us win elections.

[LBJDemocrat]

32. It is an individual issue among many

Modern American liberalism originated with FDR's economic policies.

There have been plenty of libertarian-ish Republicans: Goldwater, for instance. It isn't the defining issue of the party.

"urban secular libertarian wing" - There is no place for this wing in the party because libertarianism is against labor regulations and governmental interference in the economy.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. Sorry, I think there is no place for people who are incapable of respecting personal rights and

reproductive choice.

Some people like to bandy about the "l" word like it's an invective; trouble is, there are different kinds of "libertarian"-isms. There is the big-L Libertarian PARTY, which, yes, is against labor regulations and government interference with corporations and the rest. There is also social libertarianism and left-libertarianism, with which many people on DU, myself included, identify.

If you've never taken the test over at the Political Compass, you should do so:

http://politicalcompass.org

While not the be-all and end-all, it is useful for many reasons, not the least of which it divides the spectrum of political views along two axes, whereas the traditional left-right axis tends to fail fairly spectacularly on the breakdown of certain political issues in this country (like choice). If your ONLY focus is economics, then a simple left-right axis might suffice. But again, particularly for people who think small-l libertarianism is a dirty word, taking that test can be illuminating.

[LBJDemocrat]

41. Alright

Here are the results:

Economic Left/Right: -7.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.74

Edit: They asked questions like "Are people going too far about their sexuality today?", and I don't think that means anything. It has nothing to do with what I think about reproductive rights, for instance.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. And here are mine.

Economic Left/Right: -4.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.97

I consider the Dalai Lama pretty good company, whatever the label.

[LBJDemocrat]

43. I consider the Pope good company

even though I'm not Catholic.

[Warren DeMontague]

45. Funny, considering he has a history of allegedly covering up for Pedophile Priests

and still has the hubris to finger-wag and lecture the 10 Billion humans on this overpopulated planet about their birth control choices, I don't consider the Pope particularly good company.

He embodies everything I think is wrong with bloated, organized Western religion; hypocrisy combined with a total inability to mind one's own business when it comes to the personal lives of other consenting adults.

[Solly Mack]

2. I'm trying to recall how often I've seen this question since 2001

Perhaps someone more industrious than I am can look up all the previous times this same question has been asked and compare the answers...

[TahitiNut]

12. I can't count the number of times someone has played the Nazi officer in another Sophie's Choice.

It's also amazing how often "matters of conscience" take a beating in such threads.

[Solly Mack]

15. I'm sure imdb would be an easier search if you're game

As to other... I'm a proud ..what's that label again..oh yes - "purist" (one of those conscience and principle voters)

alas...

[blondeatlast]

13. Any donors want to donate their PCs for an overnight archive search?

It'll take HOURS...

[Solly Mack]

17. I think it would be interesting to see how it's changed - if any

how the votes went each time

I'm just not that industrious

[blondeatlast]

18. Not to mention--

the usernames.

[rpannier]

3. Casey

There are way too many issues that will come up. Also, being anti-Choice does not translate to picking Justices that are anti-choice, does not translate to anti-Union policies, does not translate to enacting policies that deny equal wages, civil rights, etc. He's a member of the Democratic Party, he understands this better than many people give him credit for.

If the nominee was radical christian nutbag cleric fred phelps, lunatic former NYC mayor and joe LIEbermann enthusiast ed koch or dueling screwball zell miller I'd have to think long and hard about how to vote.

[Az]

4. Although choice is not my primary issue it is a deal breaker for me

It is too critical an issue to give ground on imo. If the Dem candidate made it clear that they were going to overturn Roe V Wade I could not in good conscience vote for them.

[BlueIris]

35. Thanks for bringing some sanity to this thread.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. Boy this is a tough one.

I haven't had so much trouble in making a choice since I had to pick between a puppy-killing Autobot, and a Decepticon that was giving out free ice cream.

[IChing]

9. I think that's more than meets the eye.

Iguanus would hopefully take sides on this although Magmatron wouldn't.

[Warren DeMontague]

6. That's when I go Green or Libertarian, sorry.

Roe v. Wade is a deal-breaker for me.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. “Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone,...

you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams

If that were the choice, my nose's ability to suffer pain would be overwhelmed. I'd be voting for someone other than the two RW candidates or sitting it out in disgust.

[annabanana]

10. The restoration of the Constitution, the Department of Justice,

The Department of Defense, The FCC, the FAA, the SEC and all the other places where the foxes are running the henhouses is a MUCH bigger priority for me right now. .

[blondeatlast]

16. What's the party platform offering? Let's see if my question has come up

in the 147 other times this question has come up.

[gollygee]

19. There are precious few things that could get me to vote third party

but that would be one of them.

I've always said that I will vote straight party Dem no matter what, but I wouldn't be able to vote for someone who wants my body to be ruled by the state. I assume (I believe correctly) that no anti-choice person could possibly get the Dem nomination.

[LBJDemocrat]

21. Who voted for Giuliani?

And why? Are you serious?

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

22. The Caviar Leftists probably n/t

[Crowdance]

24. What is a caviar leftist?

Is it bad to love fish eggs?

[LBJDemocrat]

25. libertarians, basically

I guess.

[Le Taz Hot]

52. Libertarians are now left????

Allllrighty then. :crazy:

[Warren DeMontague]

30. The opposite of a god-drunk, theocratic fascist who wants a higher minimum wage. nt

[gollygee]

61. "Leftist" is right-wing propaganda talk

And what people eat is irrelevant to their politics.

[LBJDemocrat]

23. kick nt

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

27. The guys who voted for Giuliani should reconsider joining another website

Because that would be a deep betrayal of DU policy.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. I think the people who call themselves "democrats" yet want to throw doctors & women in jail

for exercising control over their reproductive systems should consider joining another Party.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

31. That's one issue. Should Bob Casey join another party?

Historically, this is not an ideology-defining issue.

[Warren DeMontague]

39. Well, we're very fortunate to have you here to tell us what should be important to us.

However, I think you'll find that protecting the right to choose is pretty high up on the priority list of the vast majority of people here; not only that, but it is symbolic of a whole range of personal freedom issues which motivate a large swath of the Democratic Base.

[Crowdance]

33. Difficult for women to get to the voting booths after being thrown under the bus

Some of us would drag our battered bodies in to vote, I'm sure. Me, I'm old; I'd probably just stay home with some advil and a bottle of chardonay to take the edge off the pain.

[MasonJar]

34. I will never ever vote for any GOPer again for any reason. The

atrocities, not only by the executive branch, which have been unbelievable, but also by the Pug leadership and the crooks and enablers in the Congress, have been so extreme and consistently evil that it will be a miracle if our country survives.

[Dark]

36. Pro-life Dem. The environment and Nuclear proliferation override all issues, as they

affect everyone.

I am pro-choice, and gay.

And I would be willing to vote for a repuke with a stellar enviro record over a dem who has a poor enviro record.

The environment and nuke proliferation are the two most important issues facing mankind, BAR NONE.

[flvegan]

37. Fucking neither one.

I vote my conscience. There is no "pro-choice" rethug nor "anti-choice" dem worth voting for.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. You and I agree on this one.

That's the point at which I vote 3rd Party.

[LeftyMom]

48. What he said.

My reproductive tract isn't a political issue. It's a theme park with strict admission rules. :D If you have a problem with that, I don't want you in a position of responsibility. Period.

[LostinVA]

49. I second that

[Jamastiene]

44. Write-In.

If those are the only choices, I'd draw a write-in category : "how about an actual pile of shit?" as the candidate of my choice. It'd certainly be better than that crapola pile of shit you just offered in this poll.

[LostinVA]

50. There is no such thing as an anti-choice Dem

I notice your RW framing of the poll question, btw. You are just like glass.

If you're anti choice, you aren't a Dem, no matter what letter you have after your name.

[LBJDemocrat]

53. Thanks; I'll let Governor Casey know. n/t

[LostinVA]

58. Go ahead -- he isn't a Dem if he's anti-choice

[LBJDemocrat]

55. Oh; and Senator Byrd n/t

[LostinVA]

59. He's also anti-gay -- I'm not a fan

He, too, isn't a true Dem.

[LBJDemocrat]

64. Then we disagree.

Senator Byrd in my view is more a true Democrat than someone with opposite views like the Clintons.

[LostinVA]

69. Being against basic civil rights doesn't make you a Dem

That is NOT what a "true Democrat" is.

But, no surprise hearing that from you.

[NaturalHigh]

71. Actually, Democrats hold a wide range of views...

regarding abortion and many other issues.

[Vinca]

51. The term "pro-life" is foolish. That makes everyone else "pro-death."

No woman gets up in the morning and plans a pregnancy so she can have an abortion. The issue is whether the government has supreme control over an individual's body and what she (or he) does with it. If the government legislated circumcision things would be a whole lot different.

[LostinVA]

60. It's a nice bit of RW framing

[NMMNG]

74. In reality they're only pro-birth

Because they dream up every excuse in the book to kill you once you're out of that uterus. :eyes:

[Orsino]

54. Go with the Dem.

The GOP machine is toxic in too many other ways.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

57. The Democrat. I'd Rather Eat A Peach With A Bruise Than A Log Of Shit Coated With Powdered Sugar.

[Zomby Woof]

62. For the first time since reaching voting age

I would abstain. I would never vote for a Republican, and never for an anti-choice candidate.

If Kucinich hadn't flip-flopped on choice before 2004, I would not have supported him back then. I don't mind flip-clops as long as they are in our favor.

Lucky for my wife and me, we have friends in Canada who could sponsor us if we need to relocate to a freer, more humane country.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

63. The Democrat by far.

[LSK]

65. how the hell is war mongering Rudy "Pro-life"???????

[LBJDemocrat]

67. He's pro-choice

Just like Joe Lieberman. Only Giuliani is equivocating these days because of the primary.

[LSK]

68. whoops, mixing things up here

Nevermind what I said.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

66. If we were faced with such a choice

I think we'd see a more viable third party choice than Nader rise to the top. There are too many people in the US who refuse to vote anti-choice for that not to happen.

[NaturalHigh]

70. As I'm a pro-life Democrat...

and don't really trust Giuliani to begin with, my choice here is obvious.

[IChing]

73. So democrats that are not are called anti-life?

you are not pro-life....you are an anti-aboritionist.

on edit I REALLY HATE THAT TERM PRO-LIFE it is a buzz word used by the right.

[MiniMe]

76. I won't be a one issue voter

There are no pro-life repukes right now, they are all chickenhawks on this ill-advised war. For the number of people they have killed in Iraq (both Iraqi's and US Soldiers) there is no way they have earned a pro-life label.

If we say that we won't vote for a pro-life dem, we are as bad ad the repukes who won't vote for anybody that believes in choice, even if the candidate doesn't believe in abortion. Lets see here, what are our choices?

A neocon who wants to nuke Iran and bring about a world war. Who wants to take all of our rights and liberties away. Who wants to be a dictator. Who wants to burn the constitution. Who will increase the gap between the ultra-rich and everybody else. Who will try to appoint more Alito's and Roberts to the Supreme Court.

or

A democrat, who while they may be pro-life, they most likely believe in choice. Who will protect our rights and liberties. Who believes in our government process and the constitution. Who will try to help the little guy. Who will appoint reasonable judges to the supreme court.

Really not a hard choice for me.