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What REALLY pisses me off about the Iran situation....(another reason to hate Bush)

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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 06:44 PM
Original message
What REALLY pisses me off about the Iran situation....(another reason to hate Bush)
Is it just me, or has everyone completely forgotten that our current problems with Iran are a direct result of Iraq's invasion? "Axis of Evil," not withstanding, we had fairly agreeable relations with Iran for a solid number of years prior to 2005. The President back then, Khatami, was far from a hardliner--a self-proclaimed "reformer," he co-operated with and spoke at the United Nations, expressed his belief that the Holocaust ocurred, and even diplomatically ackowledged Israel on one controversial occasion. We were never popular with the Iranian clergy or their fanatical supporters, but much like Pakistan's current leader, he managed to prevent anger at the West from reaching a boiling point, even after 9/11.

Fast forward to 2005, 2 years after the US invaded Iraq (both former enemies of Iran) on shaky pretenses of liberation and WMDs. Khatami is at the end of his 2-term reign. His predecessor, another moderate named Rafsanjani runs again and nearly wins--until Ahmadinejad, the populist mayor of Tehran, unexpectedly forces a run-off election, which he wins handily. And guess why this happened? Because as the ONLY candidate who spoke out openly against friendly relations with the United States (according to my sources), the anti-West hardliner was able to utilize mounting hatred and suspicion of the US within the Middle East to his advantage. If it hadn't been for the Iraq invasion, it is more than likely that Ahmadinejad, who was never taken seriously as a viable candidate until the year of the election, would never have caused the run-off in the first place, much less won.

So now, Iran's politics are dictated by a hardliner in bed with the most fanatical of the Iranian clergy, a man who says Israel should be "wiped off the map," that the UN hates Islam, that Americans see themselves as modern-day crusaders, sand so forth. Many even say he's responsible for some of the current violence in Iraq and Israel, and some of our own presidential candidates (Edwards, Clark) are suggesting the steps we take should be more than just diplomatic gestures. I haven't completely made up my mind yet (Ahmadinejad scares me, but so does launching another war while we're still bogged down in our last misadventure) but here's one thing I DO know:

This is EXACTLY what opponents of the Iraq invasion said would happen. Hell, this is exactly what _I_ knew would happen. The Middle East has reacted to Bush's horrendous catastrophe of a war with unchecked animosity, and as a direct result we now have at least one more fanatic to worry about, a man many times more dangerous than Saddam and his non-existent Weapons of Mass Distruction. And amazingly, Bush is trying to pretend that relations with Iraq and Iran soured independently, when really, one conflict was produced directly by the other! Someday historians may correctly pin the blame on Bush for stepping up diplomatic tensions with Iran, and credit us liberals with being dead-on accurate as neo-cons ridiculed our dire warnings about destabilizing the entire region. But As far as I can tell, no one in the mainstream is currently giving credit where credit is due.

How much you want to bet, when the quagmire spreads to Iran, the White House will tell us to "stop playing the blame game"?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Leon Panetta was on MSNBC today; he claims Iran is solely a distraction
Edited on Fri Feb-02-07 07:10 PM by babylonsister
from Iraq. I'd like to believe him...

And welcome to DU!
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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Ted Koppel would beg to differ...
...and he's one of the few mainstream newsmen I trust. He considers Ahmadenijad more dangerous than just a distraction. Not that he want to go to war with them right now, either.

However, when (if?) we withdraw from Iraq, Iran will be infinitely easier to deal with diplomatically.

And thank you!
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doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. A few points ........
Edited on Fri Feb-02-07 08:09 PM by doublethink
1. Ahmadinejad .... is just a political figurehead. Has no real power militarily as far as that country goes. The power lies with the Mullahs.
2. There is still the discrepancy with what he (Ahmadinejad) actually said as to the 'wipe Israel off the map statement' this post here for instance ....... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=13672
3. The Iranian population is very 'young' and 'westernized' demographically' ... check this out ... http://www.lucasgray.com/video/peacetrain.html ... why rush things?
4. It seems to be the USA which has (PNAC) been 'dissing;' the U.N. these last few years, coming up with 'coalition's of the willing' outside of international law, bla bla bla ... on and on ...
5. Iran hasn't broke one ioda of the NPT which it signed onto as it relates with nuclear energy.
6. Anyway yea Bush is an asshole. Good post. Peace. Gotta go. :hi:

on edit #7. What does the security of Israel have to do with the United States of America? Just asking? It seems to be 'assumed' that we are one and the same. We are not. Israel has Nukes (against the NPT) and here's a link of UN 'resolutions' concerning Israel .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine Peace again.
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bananarepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Do you know how many UN resolutions Israel has been in violation of? n/t
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. Iran helped us with HumIntel in rounding up the Taliban in Afghanistan
After that occured in 2001, Iran getting tossed into the Axis of Evil was a real back stab. I know Iran was helping terrorists in Lebanon target Israel, but after Abu Ghraib and the subsequent ass-covering by the brass responsible for that hellhole, I'm not so sure we get to complain about other people sponsoring terrorists.
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doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. Had to come back to your post after dinner .....
some of your commentary bugs me....... 'Many even say he's responsible for some of the current violence in Iraq and Israel' ......yea like who? Bush? ha ha too funny ...... and do you have a link to Clark suggesting the steps we take should be more than talking at this point? He's (Clark) up front with WANTING TO SEE what the Iranians have to say ....... here's a link .... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=385&topic_id=11894 Please address some to these issues in your post and also my prior post above. All the best. Peace. :)

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