DAMN IT, Michael Moore! Don't you know about Kucinich and HR 676?

[antigop]

Michael Moore was just on "The View". He was asked if any of the Presidential candidates had the answer to our healthcare problem. He said, "No, but there is someone who knows how to fix it, but he's not running -- Al Gore".

WHY doesn't Moore mention Kucinich and HR 676? WHY?

<edit to add> And when did Gore ever announce a healthcare solution?

[Dr.Phool]

1. He said the same thing yesterday on Democracy Now.

You can find out more about HR 676 at

www.healthcare-now.org

[napi21]

2. I don't know about Michael, but I can tell you why I disagree with

Dennis's idea. Basically, he wants medicare for all. On it's face, it sounds GREAT, but right now the current medicare/medicade program is in serious financial trouble. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to add millions of people to it, at least until the current problems can be worked out.

[antigop]

7. But adding people to Medicare helps fix the problem

Medicare is for people age 65 and older -- a group that tends to have health problems.

You get younger, healthier people into the SAME RISK pool, and you alleviate some of the Medicare pressures.

[napi21]

12. Medicare is for those 65+ but Medicade is not. Both programs are

lumped together when the serious financial problems are reported. I don't know which program is creating the bigger problem, or if they are equally responsible, but until the current troubles can be resolved, I just think it's foolish to say "Lets just make the problems bigger!"

[antigop]

13. It's not making the problem bigger -- it's helping alleviate it by getting younger, healthier people

n/t

[Cleita]

21. The serious financial problems are because the fee

schedules have not kept up with the cost of living because of the years of Republican administrations that have defunded it. It was a whole different entity when Johnson signed it into law. I know because my father benefitted from it. If it's funded properly and it can be once you cut out the middlemen, the insurance companies and the for profit HMOs you will see how well it works.

As a senior citizen, I am on Medicare right now and I am finally able to get the health care I need that I didn't before. I had insurance prior to that, but by the time I finished with premiums, deductibles and co-pays, I just didn't go to the doctor because I couldn't afford to yet I was paying for it on the chance I would have a catastrophic illness. Trust me Medicare as it is today even as bare bones as it is, is a big improvement on the privatized system unless you have an employer who will buy you really good, expensive health insurance.

[Cleita]

16. Buying into the GOP talking points are you?

When he or others propose Medicare for all, it's not about dumping everyone into the Medicare program as it is today. What is proposed is to use the Medicare model and administrative methods (still excellent and in place) and expand it to cover one hundred percent of medical costs instead of the 80% it covers today.

Also, fee schedules and coverage would be updated to insure that health care providers are properly compensated. Our Republican administrations have not done this making doctors grumble because the fees aren't keeping up with current costs of doing business. Funding would come from diversion of the health care dollars that the privatized health care insurers are getting now. Instead that money would go into the single payer system. There is more than enough to cover everyone.

Medicare because of it's efficient delivery system will be able to deliver more dollars to actual health care than is delivered today by the insurers and they will be able to do it for a third less of the cost that health care costs today. As the program settles in the bean counters estimate that quality health care can be delivered eventually for half of what it costs today and everyone would be covered with no deductibles and copays. Fees would be negotiated with the providers on a yearly basis like they do in Canada.

This is what Dennis Kucinich is proposing. Extending an expanded and improved Medicare is actually the way to go because there is already a bureacracy in place that is humming along quite efficiently instead of starting from scratch.

[antigop]

19. Thanks, Cleita! I really wish people would read actual proposals n/t

[Lasher]

22. Amen, Sister!

It's essentially free healthcare for everybody. We're paying for it now and not getting it.

[GreenPartyVoter]

32. Exactly!

[dogday]

69. Government Bureaucracy is nothing compared to

these Insurance Companies for Profit... What they do to the people who pay high premiums for the privilege of being insured is outrageous.... Absolutely shameful and the bureaucracy is worse cause it is not regulated by any oversite... They screw anyone and everyone they can....

[Cleita]

71. Insurance has a place but not in health care.

You insure your house in case it burns down in a fire. You aren't planning it or expecting that eventually it's going to catch fire. Health care on the other hand is something that everyone will need down the line some needing it sooner than others. What insurance does is insure the young and healthy to limit their liability, like they would your home. They would make sure that you have proper fire equipment just in case before they insure your house but they don't expect you to ever need to use it. Actuaries calculate the odds of having to pay claims and I believe more than 10% means they have to review their policy.

When this is done with health care it's not a good fit. This is where the exclusions come in (most insurers won't pay for dialysis)and the high deductibles and the increased premiums as you age. Then the high deductibles and co-pays make you pay for most routine health care out of your pocket not theirs. When you come down with a catastrophic illness the deductibles and co-pays will bankrupt you. Also, there is a good chance they won't insure you if they can get away with it. You are a bad risk. If you lose your job and insurance through the job, you become almost uninsurable. The only way to get health care is to lose all your assets so you can go on medicaid. In other words insurance doesn't give health care to the sick but the healthy so that they can pocket rosy profits.

It's time to cut them out of the equation and any politician who thinks they can include them in the solution is deluding themselves. The cause of the problem cannot be part of the solution.

[Dr.Phool]

18. The funding solution is in the bill.

a 3.5% payroll tax on employers and employees.

No deductibles
No co-pays
pick your own doctor or hospital.
Everyone covered regardless of age, income, or employment status

[antigop]

20. Yes, thank you! I really wish people would READ THE BILL! n/t

[OzarkDem]

76. Sounds simple, it should be done

There's no rational reason to keep putting it off.

[EFerrari]

27. These programs have always been riddled with corruptiona

at the very top. The people who "cheat" and misreport their income aren't really the problem. They could never steal as much as the top administrators can.

[Cleita]

30. I used to do medical billing and it was very hard to pad the bills

for the government programs. They were pretty cut and dried and their auditors were very good at questioning something that didn't ring true. If a doctor was dishonest it was easier to pad the bills of the private insurers. It was all a matter of using the right codes. Also, one of the reasons the doctors didn't like Medicare and Medicaid back then was not that they didn't get paid enough, but that it took months sometimes to be reimbursed. In this day and age with electronic payments that shouldn't be a problem.

What I understand that they do in Canada is submit a CD every month to the provincial office with all the services itemized for that month that is totaled from the day sheets. No forms to fill out to begin with. The Canadian government office then writes one check for the month. It seems to dramatically cut down the paper work. When I think of my days spent itemizing claims forms for various insurances in triplicate making sure I had all the codes right and then waiting for checks to dribble in to be posted to the ledgers, it was very time consuming.

[EFerrari]

31. One of my aunts did that job for many years.

She was an uncommonly patient person.

[GeorgeGist]

70. If you read the bill ...

it takes a HUGE bite out of profits ... which is the number ONE reason ALL healthcare is overpriced in the USA.

[OzarkDem]

75. If you wait til its fixed health care reform will never happen

Fixing whatever might be wrong with Medicare should be part of health care reform. It won't be that difficult or expensive.

We just have to want to do it, and to realize that we can't wait until it affects us personally.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. Because he doesn't think Kucinich is a serious candidate?

:shrug:

[antigop]

5. No, that wasn't the question.

He was asked if ANY Presidential candidate had the answer.

Moore said, "NO".

It wasn't a question of any "serious" candidate.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. Right.

But since he doesn't consider him serious, he's just writing him off as not even a real candidate, I assume. Has Lyndon LaRouche got a health plan?

[antigop]

8. Oh, please. Is Kucinich a presidential candidate or not? Yes or no? n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. Is he a realistic candidate?

Nope.

[antigop]

36. Is he a Presidential candidate-- yes or no? Please answer the question n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. Technically.

But then you'd be getting all upset over a technicality.

[antigop]

44. Yes or no? Why is this so difficult for you? n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. Why is it so difficult for you?

You're the one that's getting all upset that nobody considers Kucinich a real candidate.

[antigop]

48. No -- I asked a simple question that you refuse to answer..r u scared? n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. Actually, I already answered your question.

He's technically a candidate. But he doesn't really count.

[antigop]

50. I asked for a simple yes or no. Why is that so difficult?

Does Dennis scare you?

You seem to have the rw talking points down.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

52. Does Dennis scare me?

Why, is he sneaking up behind me with his Ring of Power?

[antigop]

53. Well, since you refuse to answer, I will take that as a Yes, Dennis scares you.

Thank you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

But I did answer.

Why are you refusing to acknowledge my answer. Are you afraid of Michael Moore?

[antigop]

55. No, you did not answer -- I asked for a simple yes or no n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

56. It's not a simple question.

I guess that just means you're afraid of Michael Moore.

Oh well.

[antigop]

58. Oh, please. Simple yes or no will do: Is Dennis a presidential candidate? n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

59. Yes and no.

Yes, he's technically a candidate, but he's irrelevant.

[antigop]

61. What nonsense. He really does frighten you, doesn't he? n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

62. Oh, I'm absolutely terrified.

Dennis Kucinich is going to annihilate me with his irrelevance.

[antigop]

54. Still waiting for simple yes or no to :Is Dennis a presidential candidate n/t

[Occulus]

57. Shit like the above is why I have that poster on ignore n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

60. How do you know if you've got me on ignore?

:shrug:

[Cleita]

4. That's odd isn't it?

I never heard of Al Gore's program, or I don't remember. Was it to extend Medicare to all? I vaguely remember something along those lines when it was first mentioned way back when, but I don't remember Gore as the person who brought it up.

[antigop]

10. Cleita, Didn't Moore show up in California to support SB 840? n/t

[Cleita]

23. I believe they are having a big rally in Sacramento this week

that Moore is supposed to attend. I can't go because I can't afford the gas to drive there or I would be there. I deleted the email but I think it's on the 22nd of this month. I'm sure something will show up in the news.

[antigop]

25. Yes, I thought I read something about it

I wish he would talk about SB 840 in his interviews (as well as HR676).

I think it's great that Moore did this movie, but I wish he would inform people that actual proposals and bills exist.

[fed-up]

65. I did a few posts about Michael when he was in Sacto last week testifying for SB 840

"michael moore" health sacramento nurses

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=%22michael+moore%22+health+sacramento+nurses&btnG=Search+News

Results 1 - 10 of about 114 for michael-moore health sacramento nurses. (0.12 seconds)
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Thanh Nien Daily Michael Moore Releases 'Sicko' Ahead of Schedule
New York Times, United States - 1 hour ago
... and rallied around last week in Sacramento, Calif., by nurses chanting for the health insurance system’s demise, Michael Moore’s documentary “Sicko” is ..

Bootleg of Moore's Sicko yanked from YouTube CBC - Newfoundland & Labrador
UPDATE: Health-care Industry Braces For Michael Moore's 'Sicko' CNNMoney.com
Moore's `Sicko' Is Hit by Web Pirates Longview Daily News

all 396 news articles »

Moore gives sneak peek of 'SiCKO' - and a lot more
White Plains Journal News, NY - 14 hours ago
Arnold Schwarzenegger might admire, documentary filmmaker and provocateur Michael Moore stormed through California's Capitol on June 12 to promote his new ...

Michael Moore Joins Nurses in Sacramento to Push for Single Payer ...
Bay Area Indymedia, CA - Jun 15, 2007
by Paul Burton Academy Award winning filmmaker Michael Moore joined members of the California Nurses Association in Sacramento June 12 for a rally in ...

Michael Moore Soldiers On
AOL News Newsbloggers, VA - Jun 17, 2007
It was a truly historic day in Sacramento this afternoon when over ten thousand nurses from all over the country rallied with filmmaker Michael Moore in ...

Michael Moore brings debate on health care to Sacramento
Inside Bay Area, CA - Jun 13, 2007
By Mike Zapler, MEDIANEWS STAFF SACRAMENTO — Michael Moore came to the Capitol on Tuesday and seemed to succeed on two fronts: Promoting his new documentary ...

Michael Moore in Sacramento to Promote Health Care Reform
abc7.com, CA - Jun 12, 2007
But Moore says neither the politicians who met with him nor the nurses who invited him are taking advantage of him. Filmmaker Michael Moore: "I think each ...


San Diego Union Tribune California nurses rally for Michael Moore's new film 'Sicko'
San Diego Union Tribune, United States - Jun 13, 2007
By Laura Kurtzman AP AP SACRAMENTO – Filmmaker Michael Moore teamed up with the California Nurses Association on Tuesday to promote his new documentary ...

Michael Moore's Latest Target: An 'Immoral' Health Care System
ABC News - Jun 13, 2007
"Nightline's" Terry Moran spent a day with the director in Sacramento, Calif., where Moore teamed with the California Nurses Association to hold a rally at ...

Michael Moore Gets Nurses Support For 'Sicko'
Starpulse.com, CT - Jun 15, 2007
Over 1000 nurses joined Moore at a rally at the state capital in Sacramento earlier this week as the filmmaker met with legislators to discuss issues raised ...

California nurses rally for Michael Moore's new film "Sicko"
KESQ, CA - Jun 12, 2007
AP - June 12, 2007 8:44 PM ET SACRAMENTO (AP) - Filmmaker Michael Moore is teaming up with the California Nurses Association in Sacramento to promote his ...

[Cleita]

72. Thanks for posting this. It was last week. I couldn't remember.

I knew that there was a rally going on because I was notified of it but like I said before I couldn't go so I deleted the email.

[RufusTFirefly]

9. Here's what Moore said about DK on DN

AMY GOODMAN: Are there presidential candidates that you do feel are putting forward an alternative?

MICHAEL MOORE: Well, yes. I mean, there’s -- well, first of all, nobody is being very specific, other than Edwards, in terms of an actual plan, and his is not a good plan. You know, Obama’s plan is not as specific, and certainly it’s full of the same flaws that the Edwards and the Hillary old plan had. Kucinich is closest to the right idea, and, of course, he keeps, you know, saying “nonprofit,” or whatever. But I kind of don’t want to use that word anymore, and I wish that Dennis wouldn’t use that, because Kaiser Permanente is a nonprofit. Blue Cross is a nonprofit.

Democracy Now!

[antigop]

11. Kucinich has a SPECIFIC plan -- it's an actual bill HR 676 n/t

[Gabi Hayes]

14. much as I like Moore, I have to say, after seeing/hearing him mulitple times

since the Sicko tour started, I'm not impressed at all with his ability to think on his feet.

the canned bit about not being able to secure the Baghdad Airport Road has to go, for starters

and his inability to marshal specific facts in the face of what will be CERTAIN, specific, right wing attack points, makes me wonder how well he's going to come off to the the general public, which has been disposed to think ill of him, in the face of the constant, virulent swiftboating that's occurred since, really Bowling for Columbine, and which became impressively bombastic since F-911.

[antigop]

17. He has great answers, especially to the "socialized medicine" rw talking point n/t

[Gabi Hayes]

24. anything besides "Christianized?" and some stuff about being judged

by how we treat the least among us?

believe me, I WANT him to succeed in his PR campaign, because skyrocketing medical costs are one of the three components that are going to bankrupt this country, and as soon as the dems can make this point to the general public, and DO something about it, the better off we'll all be

who am I kidding, though?

with each passing day, it's becoming more and more obvious that these two parties aren't so very different.

one's just a little bit less coporatist than the other. not a whole lot; just a little. they're a LITTLE bit better on civil liberties, but VERY fearful when pursuing them. remember the various PATRIOT Acts, if you think I'm judging too harshly. and I'm waiting with bated breath to see what they do on the various investos they have going, and how far they'll push the fascists when they REFUSE to cooperate in any way with the various invites/subpoenas issued.

[antigop]

26. Yes, "Christianized" -- he's trying to get the attention of so-called Christian conservatives

And he's trying to point out the hypocrisy of those who call themselves Christians, but don't take care of others.

Very smart move.

[Gabi Hayes]

28. understood. that's a good soundbyte, yes. but I haven't been so impressed

with his specific knowledge of the entire situation, and I know he's going to be skewered at LEAST as badly as he was over F-911, if not worse, because he's going up against the best funded interest groups extant.

that said, he did have a good answer (albeit the same one he gave during his F-911 tour) about the lack of appearance by HMOs, drug companies in the movie.

I am rooting HARD for this movie to succeed, and to force a discussion of how badly this country is being served

btw, did you see the thread on his TV Nation story about Cuba/US/Canada emergency rooms, and how NBC CHANGED the way the story worked out? that's why I'm worried about how he's going to do in his M$M appearances. you know they're going to be mostly hostile, ala his Charlie Rose appearance of a few years ago.

[antigop]

29. I've seen him on Oprah and Letterman -- he did great-- not hostile

And Oprah wants to have a follow-up townhall meeting later to discuss the issue.

Moore is getting his message out in some great, non-confrontational venues.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

15. Self-Delete. Discussed by other posters. eom

[GreenPartyVoter]

33. Let's email him. See if we can set up a meeting between them.

Maybe do another segment on DemocracyNow with both men there.

[BlooInBloo]

34. Oh my GOD!! Moore didn't make the whole movie about Kucinich? What a fucking Nazi!

[antigop]

37. No, that's not what I posted -- please read the OP n/t

[RestoreGore]

38. So why isn't he running?

Why won't he then put his money where his mouth is?

[antigop]

39. Why isn't who running? Gore? Did he ever announce a health plan? n/t

[RestoreGore]

40. No, Michael Moore

[LWolf]

41. Because the propaganda machine is efficient.

DK is too dangerous to the status quo to get good press. Even from Michael Moore.

Why not contact MM and ask him?

[antigop]

45. Yes, Dennis is too dangerous.. People on this thread won't even admit his candidacy. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

42. Because if Kucinich isn't serious about winning, Moore has good reason to ignore him

Why bother mentioning him if he isn't even trying to win?

[antigop]

47. Oh, really? Please check what Dennis has done lately .....

impeachment..... check
against the war...check
co-sponsor of Hr 676...check


Wow. He sure has a funny way of "not trying to win".

What's the matter? Does he scare you?

[Hippo_Tron]

63. So what are his plans to get his name out and compete with Hillary, Obama, and Edwards

Because thus far I haven't seen much. The three things you listed are in the context of his congressional career. You don't get to be president just because you co-sponsor bills in the House, you need to run a solid campaign. Dennis' campaign hasn't been particularly impressive.

[antigop]

64. If the press doesn't cover him....... n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

66. Complaining about the press not covering him isn't a strategy

Either Kucinich has a plan to change that fact or he isn't a serious candidate and therefore he doesn't need to be mentioned.

[antigop]

67. And if he has a plan and the press STILL doesn't cover it, ....

Wow! Dennis must really scare people.

[antigop]

68. And please don't hijack my thread-- please read the OP

The OP was about Michael Moore's visit on "The View".

Barbara Walters asked if any of the presidential candidates had a solution.

Moore said, "No. Well, there is someone, but he's not running-- Al Gore."

So please don't try to deflect what happened here.

FACT: Dennis is a candidate. He supports HR 676. Moore said none of the candidates had a plan.

[Hippo_Tron]

73. And I'm saying that it's a waste of time for Moore to talk about Dennis' plan

Because Dennis doesn't have a plan as to how he is going to become President.

[antigop]

79. What nonsense. n/t

[LWolf]

77. It's possible that what you view as "unimpressive"

is what impresses his supporters most of all.

The fact that he is not owned by, funded by, supported by, corporate America. That his ties and loyalties are to people.

Those "solid" campaigns are out there because they have lots of corporate money footing the bill, and corporate media playing along.

Personally, I really like what I've seen so far. I think his first campaign commercial is the cream of the crop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRl4YLVW0b4

[antigop]

51. Dennis IS a presidential candidate -- he has co-sponsored an actual bill

That's why.

[CrazyForKucinich]

74. I wrote him about a week ago...even made a topic about this

titled "My letter to Michael Moore"

concerning why he never mentions Kucinich when it comes to healthcare. He has not gotten back to me.

Face it people...we either support Kucinich or we gain nothing for our Country.

It's that simple. The lack of hope from Moore, our political leaders and many of you have made me leave this party on the Federal level...I'm now supporting Ron Paul...only a mass movement of support for Kucinich will bring me back. Are you on board?

[CountAllVotes]

78. bottom line on Medicare for All idea

I think it sucks! It is not a freebie by a long shot either (at present $95.50 a month minimum and rising steadily). Many doctors do not take Medicare btw! And it only covers "so much" and that is it. So then, you need a supplemental plan which can cost a hell of a lot (like $100-$500 a month extra). And if you don't want to do that well you still need the RX coverage, so add in another $50.00 at least to the Medicare premium per month which is almost $100.00. So you are looking at some minimal insurance for $150.00 a month. At its best, with the supplemental insurance to augment basic Medicare you are looking at perhaps as much as a premium of $500.00 a month or maybe even more if you are able to throw a long-term care policy into the basket.

I ask, how many young people out there are willing to pay as much as $500.00 a month for insurance to be fully covered? I'd suspect not many.

We need something BETTER than "Medicare for All" IMO and it must be something that ALL doctors will accept for payment, not just SOME. And the plan MUST have long-term care incoporated into as well for it to be fully functional for everyone.

End of rant! :grr:

:kick:

[antigop]

80. Would you PLEASE read the Medicare for ALL bill? n/t