2000 Good Ole Boy Bush Good. "Articulate" Gore Bad. 2004 Bumbling Bush Good. "Articulate" Kerry Bad.

[omega minimo]

The "First" African American candidate for president may well have also been a woman-- Shirley Chisholm and Barbara Jordan back in the Seventies.

A lot has changed since then and nowadays it's all about The Spin.

Every word matters. Now. And more than Every Word from a politician, What Matters is what the Punditocracy has to say about it.

THAT is a Bigger Problem, a problem more immediate and relevant, than WHAT is being said. HOW is it being SPUN?

Who didn't see through Dubya's Feel-Good Dumbshit routine in 2000 and even in 2004... And who didn't hear someone we know say they'd "like to have a beer with the guy"? Who didn't hear the TV tell us that Gore/Kerry wasn't "trustworthy" because he seemed to Think Too Much?

Dumbshit/Egghead... Dumbshit/Egghead.... "I'll take 'Dumbshits' for $1000, Alex."

Funny that this broujaja about the "First" African American candidate who has "approachable" qualities includes "articulate."

Heh heh heheh heheh. Heh. Heheh. Artickulat. That's a big word. Like strategery. Like nucular purliferation........... Heh heheh.

[Bluebear]

1. But Gore sighed! And I would rather have a beer with Bush!

:sarcasm:

[PCIntern]

2. they can have a beer with him on the freaking

Unemployment/Selective Service/Taxesforthedeficit lines.

I hope they're all happy now.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[muntrv]

4. This is the dumbing down that the wingnuts yap about.

[omega minimo]

5. "that the wingnuts yap about" while they're perpetrating it?!!!

:crazy:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

6. That's The Point, How It's Being Spun. Shame On Those Assisting In The Spin Of An Innocent Statement

So sad to see so many here engaging in the spin attack on one of our own. Truly sad.

[omega minimo]

7. If we're honest, we can all learn from the sort of misstatement Biden made

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. Nope. If We're Honest, We'd Fight Back Against Those Who Spin For Selfish Reasons.

We'd be honest and defend the innocent who are being mercilessly attacked for political purposes, when all they did was say something completely benign.

If we're honest, we should all stand up for him, even if we don't like him, because we'd know deep down he had completely harmless intentions.

If we're honest, we'd CONDEMN the spin machine being put forth, rather than condoning it and blaming the victim.

That is what I'm doing. I guess some of us are more honest than others.

[Lars39]

9. Laying it on pretty thick tonight, aren't ya?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

11. Just Being Honest...

As always.

[omega minimo]

13. "As always"

:rofl:


Some of us are honest with ourselves and each other when we offend others unintentionally

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

14. Yes Omega, As Always.

But that's ok. Lord knows all you ever have in your arsenal is personal attack rather than actually being able to respond with anything of any intellectual substance.

Such a one trick pony.

[omega minimo]

17. As always, that false accusation is always the first thing YOU have to say, YOU attack

"all YOU ever have in your arsenal is personal attack rather than actually being able to respond with anything of any intellectual substance."

Hence the mindfuck.



Like I said, some of us can be honest with ourselves and each other. If you feel "personally attacked" when it's pointed out that you "lay it on a bit thick" maybe the problem is yours.

And attacking me, rather than the person that said it:

:puke:

Get real, mindcrime.

Go in peace.

Just go.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

18. "Blah Blah Blah Mindfuck Blah Blah Blah"

Such a one trick pony.

[omega minimo]

21. It's YOUR choice to play this bullshit game----- as always

:thumbsdown:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

24. Yeah Right. And Like You've Got A Gun To Your Head. God You Crack Me Up.

:rofl:

[Jim Sagle]

20. That was a real knee slapper, wasn't it?

Haw haw haw!!!!!!

[omega minimo]

22. Laying it on a bit hick tonight, aren't you?

[Jim Sagle]

26. Very punny.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. Pssssst. Hey, You.... Yeah, You..... Mind If I Challenge You Openly?

Back up your insult with any time I have EVER been dishonest here. Ever. One post. Go for it. You want to make the assertion that I haven't been? Then back it up. Go for it bub. Put your money where your mouth is pal.

[Jim Sagle]

27. Your whole defense of Jagoff Joe Biden is a lie from start to finish.

He's not an innocent man, it wasn't a benign statement, and he deliberately, stupidly, crudely and falsely smeared several other Democratic candidates.

Real Democrats revile him, and they know anyone who defends him is lying.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

28. Didn't Think You Could Come Through. Your Attempt Was Actually Quite Hilarious.

Personally, I don't like Joe at all. But my dislike of him doesn't mean that I'm going to purposely twist his words and give them different intent just to attack and smear him while he's vulnerable. There is nothing weaker or more pathetic than to do that to somebody; ANYBODY. So my defense has nothing to do with liking him. I don't like him whatsoever. But I will always defend innocents from unwarranted attack and character assassination when they don't deserve it. I've been completely honest with this and the only dishonesty I see are from those who are purposely twisting his intent to suit their bitter purposes.

[omega minimo]

29. Biden put his foot in it by saying "the first" and qualifying his compliments as being race-related

I give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't realize his praise came in the form of a backhanded comparison, not of Obama's qualities, but his uniqueness as an African American with those qualities.

Unfortunately, the fact that he said "the first" discounts the existence of several other African American presidential candidates over the past 3 decades.

[MrSlayer]

10. I agree.

I was accussed of "not getting it" for saying the very same thing. If Biden knew he was going to get the bullshit he has gotten over complimenting Obama he probably would have just trashed the guy. If you are going to have to take shit, at least do something to merit it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. Agreed.

[omega minimo]

15. Wow. That sounds really brutal "MrSlayer"

"If you are going to have to take shit, at least do something to merit it."


Does it occur to you at all to consider what the point of view is that says, sometimes people make clueless statements and even if they think they didn't mean to "trash" someone with their (backhanded) "compliments," they still DID?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

16. Did It Ever Occur To You, That Just Because Someone Perceives A Harmless Statement That Way,

that it doesn't alter the reality that the statement was still in fact harmless, it just merely alters the perception of the person who believes otherwise?

This is simply a difference of mental perceptions. But those mental perceptions don't change the logical fact that the statement itself was not created in any way from an angle of racism.

You or someone else thinking the statement was racist or offensive does not wholly in reality make that statement racist or offensive. It does NOTHING more than simply make the statment racist or offensive TO YOU.

[MrSlayer]

19. I just think people are reading into this what they want.

I just don't see how saying nice things about the guy is backhanded. I don't see why, because Obama is black, you can't say he's articulate. It's stupid. Biden says the guy is smart and speaks well yet somehow it's twisted into a racist comment. What could he have said to get the same point across without it being misinterpreted? I think there is nothing and no matter what he said this bullshit train would have run right on time.

[omega minimo]

25. on the other hand, people are IGNORING about this what they want

It's always like that. Same dilemma, different subject.

To answer your questions, there was a very thorough examination of the Biden quote done by Lawrence O'Donnell flling in for Franken on Air America.

He read the quote through and asked the question: "would it have made a difference if Biden hadn't used the word FIRST?"

That's a very good question and really is where the discussion on this oughtta start.

it doesn't matter how loudly or angrily some people want to insist that the concerns about bigotry in our society are unfounded. On its face, that is an unrealistic position.

IF Biden made an unintentional but clueless and insulting comment, there's no shame or harm at looking at that, for us or for Mr. Biden himself.


"What could he have said to get the same point across without it being misinterpreted?"

Did you read the OP? The first line? Who was the "First"? Why did he say "first"? Was he saying something about Obama that erased or dismissed the actuality of the other African American presidential candidates who had the same qualities he described?