WTF is this shit??? Federal blackmail - why isn't this all over the MSM??????

[The Straight Story]

States Oppose National Driver's License

By LESLIE MILLER
Associated Press Writer
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WASHINGTON (AP) -- A revolt against a national driver's license, begun in Maine last month, is quickly spreading to other states.

The Maine Legislature on Jan. 26 overwhelmingly passed a resolution objecting to the Real ID Act of 2005. The federal law sets a national standard for driver's licenses and requires states to link their record-keeping systems to national databases.

Within a week of Maine's action, lawmakers in Georgia, Wyoming, Montana, New Mexico, Vermont and Washington state also balked at Real ID. They are expected soon to pass laws or adopt resolutions declining to participate in the federal identification network.

"It's the whole privacy thing," said Matt Sundeen, a transportation analyst for the National Conference of State Legislatures. "A lot of legislators are concerned about privacy issues and the cost. It's an estimated $11 billion implementation cost."

The law's supporters say it is needed to prevent terrorists and illegal immigrants from getting fake identification cards.

States will have to comply by May 2008. If they do not, driver's licenses that fall short of Real ID's standards cannot be used to board an airplane or enter a federal building or open some bank accounts.

About a dozen states have active legislation against Real ID, including Arizona, Georgia, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Missouri, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Utah and Wyoming.

Missouri state Rep. James Guest, a Republican, formed a coalition of lawmakers from 34 states to file bills that oppose or protest Real ID.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/R/REAL_ID?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

[rodeodance]

1. the ghost of Sensenbrenner. I am glad to see the pushback

[maine_raptor]

2. As Maine goes..........

This sort of crap has been around for a long time. Want to increase the speed limit above 55, sure you can, if you don't mind not getting Federal Highway money.

It's called "State's Rights": that a State would have control of what happened within it's borders and the Fed's would have to keep it's hands off. But we had a little dust-up a few years back that ended that concept right quick. Too bad, because that (State's Rights) was the way the Founders intended life to be.

[Missy M]

3. I am against the national driver's license....

and I resent the federal government making threats, all the time, if the states don't comply. I've got news for the feds, someone, somehow will still manage to make fake national ID cards.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

4. The National ID is one of the first pushes to the North American Union, where we will lose

our sovereignty.

And the MSM is complicit. Only Lou Dobbs has spoken out about it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAeEc23_7Ig&mode=related&search=North+American+Union

[Hoping4Change]

23. Thanks for posting this. Since I can't run the video I found the transcript.

I had never heard talk about Canadian and US troops guarding Mexico's southern border. That's a shock and it certainly places recent talk, up here in Canuckistan, about increasing Canada's military in a different light.


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13854.htm

[exlrrp]

47. But we already HAVE national ID

Its called--wait for it-- a passport.
Thats right, I have a national ID with my picture on it, I've had it continuously since 1965. Why haven't we lost our sovereignity in the meantime?

[Subdivisions]

48. You're kidding, right?

Nevermind that you seem to be clueless on the implications (and I won't take the time to explain it here), you totally ignored the allusion to the North American Union even while replying to a sub-thread with that as it's subject.

Here is a little info on the NAU:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14965

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Union (for what it's worth)

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/2/2/121431.shtml


A Google search will provide more information.

[no_hypocrisy]

5. What are the chances of Congress successfully repealing the Real ID Act

or the federal courts finding it unconstitutional?

Or will we have to wait until (potentially) 2009 with a democratic Congress and a democratic president?

[Felinity]

6. Last week I heard some Democrat

I can't remember exactly who, was pushing for a computer chip to verify SSN/work status. He was talking in context of employers checking I-9 status.

I couldn't believe the naivete! If you have a chip ID that verifies your SSN, then anyone who scans it would be able to pull up your Credit Info, Background Info, pretty much anything you've said or done. Privacy would be totally destroyed.

This is a simple issue. Employers withhold taxes and file regular quarterly reports and deposits with the IRS. These reports should be merged/purged with the Social Security Administration database; then employers should be notified of employees who with false ID's, and given 30 days to correct the situation and file final withholding on those numbers. Fines would not kick in until non-compliance is established, and employers would be motivated to be more vigilant to avoid heavy paperwork and employee turnover. This is a simple, bureaucratic, self-managing system that does not foist unfair penalties on employers who just comply when notified.

It is absurd that this is not done now. The stupid raids need to stop. Singling out certain employers is unfair and an obvious show for the cameras, with not intent to solve the problem. It is obvious to me that they do not want to solve the problem.

BTW, is the airline industry on this page? I would have to be desperate to fly before I would get one of these stupid cards.

[file83]

17. Two words: CENTRALIZING POWER

It won't stop with the airlines.

This National ID system, in the most simple of terms, strips the power away from the States to decide how their INFORMATION on its citizens will be exchanged with the Federal Government, other States, and third parties.

This National ID card puts all that power of INFORMATION on its citizenry into the Federal Government.

Where they go with that information, I leave up to your imagination.

What other types of personal information will be added to their "requirements" in the future?

What other types of infrastructure will we need to use this card for (Driving a car? All purchases? Using the internet?)

Will the uses of those infrastructures be recorded and tied to your personal identity?

What will the government do with that "metadata"?

Will they sell that information to Corporations? Other Countries?

[Felinity]

18. Thanks for adding all that.

Some people say I'm paranoid about this topic. But I say it's because they are out to get me, control me (any you, and you, and you!).

[WinkyDink]

21. So much for the vaunted "States' Rights" Republican tenet.

Of course, that died in Florida, in 2000.

[Greyhound]

43. ...and finally being able to do away with cash.

Absolutely essential to total domination and control of the flock.

[wtmusic]

7. When the airlines are flatlining anyway?

Let's see, we'll tank the airlines, make more people deal in cash (making collection of income tax impossible) and prevent people from entering federal buildings (who cares).

Great. Idea. :eyes:

[Toots]

8. Sig Heil

Onward "Unitary Executive"......

[Mind_your_head]

9. Here's a link to a very good USA today article

that I posted on DU a few days ago about this subject - Only got one response though. I recommend reading the entire USA Today article. Also, I hope that Mr. Steinhardt is correct in his statement that the whole thing will collapse if several/many states reject this plan. What can we do to help our own state legislatures reject the Real ID Act?


<snip>
The Montana House of Representatives expects to vote today on a bill that would make Montana the first state to ignore the Real ID law, which requires states to demand a minimum standard of proof of residency from people seeking driver's licenses.
<snip>
The Maine State Legislature last week became the first to approve a resolution urging Congress to overturn the law before it takes effect in May 2008. Only four of 186 Maine lawmakers voted no.
<snip>
Wiseman and other opponents hope enough states protest or defy the law that Congress will be forced to revise or repeal it.
<snip>
"If one state says no, or another state follows Maine, the whole house of cards collapses," said Barry Steinhardt of the American Civil Liberties Union.
<snip>

(emphasis is mine)

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-30-realID_x...

-----------------------------

I had to snip the heck out of this article to meet the 4 paragraph max. rule. It's a good article worth reading ~ lots of info in there about what various states/lawmakers are doing. Does anyone know if Montana passed this? The article is dated last Tuesday, 1/30/07.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x109362

[lonestarnot]

13. Damn! Now the article is missing.

:cry:

[Mind_your_head]

16. Try this link here (looks like they moved it, but I found it :-) :

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-30-realID_x.htm

You know this might be "tin-foil hattish", but it kinda seems to me that this article may have been heavily edited from what I first read/posted it. (There are times I really hate that 4 paragraph limit rule, especially when sometimes a "paragraph" is only 1 or 2 sentences!)

[lonestarnot]

24. Just saw this. Thanks Mind_your_head!

:toast:

[lonestarnot]

25. Just delete the paragraph indents and run it all together next time.

:rofl:

[napi21]

10. There is a bit of this idea going on right now.

It used to be, once you crossedfrom one State to another,your record was clean unless you break some lawin the new location. Then the States began exchanging info between contiguous States. NOW, there are very few States that do NOT exchange info.

I'm not sure I completely disagree with the national data base. If nothing elase, ti would at least stopany individuals from having several DL's across several different States.

[struggle4progress]

11. No. US Constititution, Article IV, Section 2:

.. A Person charged in any State with .. Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime ..

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A4Sec2

[Morgana LaFey]

15. You know what else would be good about it?

It would enable those who have access to remove people from the voter rolls all that more efficiently. Link up the drivers license databases with the voter registration databases, and voila! you can target millions of people almost in one fell swoop.

And as long as we're talking about "good things" about this -- it'll be wonderful for those companies who have already been doing this kind of work. Choicepoint, for example.

[WinkyDink]

22. Not sure what your point is. I can use my PA. license anywhere.

And what do you mean by "clean record"? If one has served his time, he's good to go. If he's trying to escape apprehension, you are wrong.

[Nikki Stone1]

12. HUGELY IMPORTANT

Thanks for posting it. And it IS blackmail.

[lonestarnot]

14. Don't we already have this and isn't it called NCIC?

For criminals. Not law abiding citizens.

[ORDagnabbit]

19. go watch freedom to fascism

and you'll be suprised by alot the government is doing


www.freedomtofascism.com

[Freeusfromthechurch]

34. Great Documentary - It will blow your mind

I'm still tripping from watching it and that was 2 weeks ago.

A must see for everyone here on DU
Required watching

www.freedomtofascism.com

[Pachamama]

20. I'm in California - Anyone know what CA's position on this is?

Is our legislature fighting against this too or is the Gropenator doing what the Bush people tell him to? :shrug:

[Mrspeeker]

26. its called media consolidation!

Is it not wonderful?

[wildbilln864]

27. K&R!

:hi:

[satya]

28. Couldn't residents of "non-compliant" states be denied social security, medicare, etc?

If the state id is not acceptable for “federal purposes”, seems to me that this could be used to deny benefits to a lot of folks who can't produce the mandated documents.

Yet another way to suppress the vote, too ...

[The Straight Story]

29. Excellent Question

I am going to dig about tonight since I don't have to work (laptop is broken, so I got the night off, woohoo)

[bpeale]

31. you deny me my SS etc.

and i will be suing the federal govt for recovery of my money and for obtaining it under false pretenses.

[mainegreen]

50. In the end, congress IS elected by people from states, so I don't think that would ever happen.

Deny SS? Might as well step out of office now.

[tom_paine]

30. A thousand tony steps from freedom to BushPutinism...The New Totalitarianism

I wish my state was listed among those gutsy places.

[Bitwit1234]

32. Most states already have the stipulation

that driver's licenses are not to be used for a source of identification. but for years places of businesses have been doing it. And no one has cracked down on them.

[RegimeChange2008]

33. This is is the first step down the road that ends with "The Mark of the Beast"

Whether you take biblical prophecy seriously or not, tell me this isn't where this kind of bullshit is heading.....

From the 13th chapter of Revelation
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

So according to the above article, you may not be able to open a bank account without one of these national ID cards. That alone would severely restrict one's ability to "buy or sell" in the modern world.

And should the mandatory issuing of these cards fail to do what they think it will do (i.e. stop terrorists and illegal aliens) then they will blame it on counterfeit cards, and move to something "more permanent". Such an RFID chip implanted in the body. :scared:

[Lasher]

45. Exactly what I was thinking while going through this thread.

Revelation chapter 14:
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,

10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Might as well tattoo a bar code on your hand while you're at it, right where the chip is implanted.

[Swamp Rat]

35. I'll take one of those "REAL IDs" !!! Gimme one!!!

I'll use it to escape!!! ... my get-out-of-the Fourth Reich card, to be used only once.

Fuck this fascist bull shit! :mad:

[Felinity]

51. Cool Graphic. Thanks. n/t

[_dynamicdems]

36. I'm glad that NH is fighting this.

The media has ignored this. Good thing the states aren't.

Nip this in the bud.

If the repugs have their way, the next thing they'll want to do is implant everyone with identity chips.

[The Straight Story]

37. I think the NY Times is finally covering this today - woohooo!! (nt)

[The Straight Story]

38. And here it is! :

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/05/washington/05real.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

[_dynamicdems]

39. Thanks! Finally.

I'm no fan of Sununu but he's been a lot more progressive since the midterms when Democrats literally took over NH! :rofl:

[cui bono]

40. Jesus, I posted this a couple days ago and no one cared. Sheesh.

:eyes:

[Greyhound]

42. Don't take it personally, it happens all the time.

Lots of real news and issues get drowned out by the thousands of "my candidate can beat up your candidate threads", especially in GD, and it will only get worse for the next year and a half. Oh and don't forget the paid posters and campaign workers that inhabit the boards posting the same talking points over and over and over and over and over.

Just re-post after a day or two or watch for it to be posted by one of the "cool kids".

[cui bono]

52. Thanks. Plus I didn't do the sensationalist topic heading.

It's kind of disappointing to see that you need to do that on a board like this.

[Greyhound]

53. Yes, but it is far better than the alternative insanity that is the rule on

other "open" boards.
:kick:

[mhatrw]

41. Papers, please?

What a horrible leap into a centralized fascist state.

[B Calm]

44. I already have a national driver license. Even though it's

issued by the state, it's a national exam. CDL

[Lasher]

46. Any government-issued photo ID can be used to board a plane

I have used my military veteran's ID card for that purpose. And states issue ID cards for those who do not have driver's licenses. I guess none of them will be accepted unless they contain a record of that misdemeanor from 30 years ago. But why stop there? Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the communist party? BPPFSD? SDS? AFL/CIO? PTA?

[Freddie Stubbs]

49. Perhaps because it passed unanimously in the Senate and by a wide margin in the House