If the Plame trial forces Cheney to resign...

[saltpoint]

Poll question: If the Plame trial forces Cheney to resign...

...admittedly a big 'if,' but nevertheless possible, who does Bush appoint to replace him?

This poll presupposes that Cheney is forced out owing to intense pressure within the party following increasingly damaging revelations about the conduct of his office in relation to Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson.

Q In the event of Cheney's resignation from the Vice Presidency, who will President Bush appoint to replace him?

[Counciltucky]

1. I don't think any Presidential candidate would accept an appointment.

The stain of being associated with Bush would most likely be too much for a candidate to want to deal with.

[saltpoint]

4. But, Counciltucky... freedom's on the march in the Middle East!

Our troops enter towns under a hail of roses!

______

Good point. The nominee would have to balance the fame and fuss over the appointment versus the downside of association with a failed presidency.

[Laurab]

13. Maybe not for McCain

he seems to love being associated with bush - I believe you're right about the other ones, but McCain still seems to think he's a "maverick", and by being a shrub cheerleader, he kind of is. The base probably wouldn't like it, but I think he'd take it.

[AndyTiedye]

51. McCain Would Be Perfect For Them

McCain would do anything to be President, and the media has been
building him up as a "moderate" for years, so they can foist some
total nutbar on us as VP (soon to be Prez when McCain kicks it).

[krispos42]

2. You want Tim, he's all yours... n/t

[saltpoint]

6. We have to put the question to Dubya. One Pawlenty scenario is

that he is coming out of nowhere, won re-election in a strong Democratic year, and would be in a key position for the Republican convention set for the Twin Cities in fall of 08.

[krispos42]

9. Weak Democratic candidate, and lots of third-party clout

Pawlenty didn't win a majority, he won a plurality, and not by a lot there either. Hutchinson siphoned votes mostly from Dems. the guys on our local AAR radio show (Minnesota Matters) keeps bringing this up.

Al Franken in '08!

[saltpoint]

11. krispos42, I would love it if we could pick up the papers in November

of 08 and read that Norm Coleman has been sent packing.

I see your Franken endorsement there... whatever you folks can do up there to unseat Coleman would win many loud cheers from a lot of us.

[krispos42]

21. We have Big Eddie on our side

He's said so in his radio promos for the station. He's beating Limp-bough, and inSannity, so he advertizes "Norm, you're next"! :-)

And our local AAR affiliate has doubled in listenership from Fall 2005 to Fall 2006. All other talk radio in the Cities, INCLUDING the new FM rightie talk and the mainstay CBS affiliate WCCO, have fallen.

Al Franken can be considered a Minnesota native, too, although technically he's not, just like Junior is really a Connecticut damnyankee like myself.

[saltpoint]

22. 'Appreciate the info.

Well, if Franken should go on to get the nomination, I think he'll run a smart campaign against Norm.

Norm Coleman is sitting in Paul Wellstone's chair, is how I see it.

And it wouldn't bother me one bit if he were unseated by a landslide percentage in 2008.

[krispos42]

29. From your post to Flying Spaghetti Monster's noodly ear... lol n/t

[ashling]

3. "Mah decide for VP is Harriet Miers"

"She is the most qualified person in the cuntry"

[saltpoint]

7. It could be the Comeback Trail for Harriet Miers.

After resigning last month, I think she returned to her old job -- lounge singer in El Paso -- but I'm just real certain she could be lured away for a shot at the vice presidency.

You should hear her rendition of "The Smoke Gets in My Eyes."

[ChairmanAgnostic]

5. Laura? Jeb? the dog?

one of those three could be a trusted aide.

[CJCRANE]

17. Barney '08!

[saltpoint]

20. Barney might be the only one in the White House right now who

knows what he's doing.

[Inuca]

30. ANd that people still trust n/t

[bunkerbuster1]

28. It'd be John Ellis Bush

I suspect Bush would take the path of least resistance at this point (pretty much his MO throughout his adult life.) "She's all yours bro, like you always wanted. I'm gonna go get shitfaced. Lemme know if I gotta sign somethin'. Heh heh heh."

[liberal N proud]

8. IMO: McCain was promised the 08 nomination if he laid down for bu$h

He has done this faithfully for the last 6 years and IF the Penguin resigned, he would be given the spot to boost his chances in the election.

[saltpoint]

10. A plausible scenario. It's more than just merely suggestable that

McCain sold his soul to the Bush apparatus.

Many reasons out there to oppose John McCain's candidacy. This is one of 'em.

[jaysunb]

15. It would also mean another Dem Senator

Arizona has a Democratic Gov.
But the Senate probably would not approve him, leaving Ms Pelosi next in line for the top spot.

[NewJeffCT]

70. I'd be shocked if McCain was not approved by the Senate

They couldn't muster a filibuster against John Ashcroft or Alberto Gonzalez when they were nominated for AG... I doubt McCain would get more than a small handful of senators opposing him.

[blm]

41. I agree - but also think they would promise goons like Giuliani the same thing.

It's not like they're ethical.

[MaineDem]

58. I always thought the deal for McCain's ass kissing was the nom in '08

I also think that anyone who serves as Boy George's VP will be tarnished with the Bush legacy and I really can't imagine anyone wanting that.

However, would someone pass up the sure thing of going down in history as a Vice President for the possibility of being President? I don't know.

[nam78_two]

12. Does it not automatically go to Ted Stevens?

Or am I thinking of some other rule?

[saltpoint]

14. The amendment providing for presidential succession kicks in if

both the president and vice president become incapacitated.

Under the Cheney resignation scenario, Dubya would still be serving in the Oval Office and would have to nominate a candidate then submit that name to the approval of the Senate.

Here's some info on succession:

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa010298.htm

[nam78_two]

18. Thanks! eom

[AndyTiedye]

16. If Cheney Resigns, the Senate SHOULD NOT CONFIRM a Replacement!

whether she wants it or not

[saltpoint]

19. What about the chamber's constitutional duty to do just that?

The president must nominate and the Senate must consider.

This isn't to say that I wouldn't be happy to have my old Congresswoman, Ms. Pelosi, in the White House. She's third in line in the event that Dubya and Dick fall into the Everglades and are devoured by crocodiles and alligators, forbid it almighty God.

[krispos42]

36. I doubt anybody Bush nominates will pass muster

:evilgrin:

It could become a weekly event, Bush trotting out some lame-ass neocon and Democrats kicking them back out to the curb.

I can see the list now...

Harriet Meirs
James Dobson
Ted Haggart
Paul Wolfowitz
Joe Lieberman
Tim Pawlenty
Mitch Romney
Ken Blackwell
Alberto Gonzolez
Norm Coleman
George Allen
Rick Santorum
Mark Kennedy
Michelle Bachman
Jeb Bush
David Addington
Karl Rove

etc., etc., etc., all of them with a big dusty footprint in their ass.

[NoPasaran]

46. Not just the Senate, the House as well

The 25th Amendment requires that both houses approve the appointment of a new vice president. And I think that will make it very unlikely that McCain, or anyone else likely to be a 2008 candidate, would be named. I suppose Bush could try... it would be an idiotic move, but he could still try. But Bush, who already is in a politically weak position, would be even weaker if Cheney was forced to resign, while the opposition to him would be further emboldened. So his chances of forcing a hardline neocon through Congress would seem to be pretty poor... and nominating someone and having that person rejected would make him even weaker.

[AndyTiedye]

59. And Consider We Should. At. Great. Length.

And in the unlikely event that Mr. Bush** nominates a suitable person for V.P., he should be confirmed.
Suitable persons would include Al Gore, Wesley Clark, John Kerry, ....

Someone less obviously qualified would require more detailed examination. Investigation. Hearings. At. Great. Length.
It might be necessary to delay such lengthly hearings if more urgent business arose, such as, for example, e.g. impeachment of the President.

[RegimeChange2008]

23. Pelosi for President isn't going to happen.

The Presidential line of succession thing (as far as the Speaker is concerned) was designed for what would happen in case of the extremely unlikely emergency situation in which the president and vice president would both be dead or incapacitated at the same time. There's no way that congress could pull off impeaching Cheney and then impeach the moron before he could appoint someone to replace Dick. It just ain't gonna happen.

I'm guessing that IF Cheney resigns/or is impeached that Chimpy will resign as soon as his designated VP is installed. Poppy Bush will be behind this move, wanting to preserve what is left of the Bush Crime Family's power in the GOP by avoiding the stain of Chimpeachment. Poppy might well have been the one who talked Nixon into resigning for the same reasons, and obviously (and unfortunately) they recovered from that one in just 6 years.

McCain seems the most likely candidate to be Jerry Ford II, but just like Ford, I don't see the built in incumbency helping him in 2008. The people are more sick of Iraq now than they were of Vietnam in 1968, and McCain hasn't exactly opposed the war.

[Independent_Liberal]

44. You seem to be on the same page as me.

I was thinking about a scenario very much like that.

[in_cog_ni_to]

24. Cheney's arrogance will never allow him to resign, but should hell freeze over,

I say CondiLIAR/second wife will be appointed.

[saltpoint]

25. And many agree with you in the poll so far.

I'm fearful of that scenario myself.

It skirts the political blowback of his choosing an announced candidate and wounds Democrats with their demographic base without losing a Senate seat.

[RegimeChange2008]

50. That would be the worst thing possible for the country.....

Because then you KNOW the DLC would force Hillary on us as a nominee.

And it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference which one won. :scared:

[TahitiNut]

26. One thing's for sure: It'd be a Senator or Congressman.

Thus, Rice, Giuliani, and Abu Gonzo are out of the running. There's no way both houses would confirm anyone that's not "part of the club."

[saltpoint]

31. Hi, TahitiNut. They're a clubby bunch, that's for sure, but

I'm not convinced non-members would be completely out of the question.

They have an inside track. I'm fearful, for instance, that a Supreme Court vacancy will come open before Dubya leaves office, and that John Cornyn will be nominated. It will be the usual cynical, low-rent move by Bush -- to nominate someone the Senate would be hardpressed to reject.

[TahitiNut]

34. Orrin Hatch has lusted after that for a loooong time.

I must admit that I can't quite make up my mind which one would be worse. Cornyn is clearly a tad stupider ... an IQ of 85 vs. Hatch's 90. Both of 'em make Thomas look normal. I think I'd have to choose Hatch as 'better' if only because he's 18 years older and will be dead sooner.

[saltpoint]

37. LOL! That's right. I'm told that at least Thomas can feed himself.

Orrin Hatch. My god.

Orrin Hatch is Barney Fife after a lobotomy.

[TahitiNut]

39. The brain-damaged Uriah Heep of the Senate.

The only thing that saves him from being completely detestable is the sympathy for his place on the short yellow bus.

[saltpoint]

40. LOL.

Nice to bump into you on DU, TahitiNut.

I hope all's well your way.

[jcrew2001]

27. Cheney's resignation would ensure a Dem victory in 2008

If Cheney is forced to resign, the US population will overwhemingly vote for the Democratic nominee.

McCain shouldn't accept the vp spot because that would be like a Ford situation, and any Repub nominee would have difficulty getting separation from the scandal of resignation.

[saltpoint]

33. I can see that. Cheney is unpopular -- I think even more than Bush.

From Bush's perspective, he has little to gain in keeping Cheney, and no elections for himself to worry about.

If Cheney survives the Plame trial, I suppose he remains in office. But he and Dubya are already greatly diluted from their former intimidating selves. Mostly now they're empty suits and history is about to toss them into the bin at Goodwill.

[AndyTiedye]

52. I'm Rather More Hoping They Get Tossed Into the U.N. Prison at the Hague

[bleedingheart]

32. Santorum...He is just the apeshit crazy bastard they would put in the VP slot

[saltpoint]

35. O my god I hope not. But your description of the man sounds

exactly right to me.

In truth I am not hogwild about Bob Casey but I was vehemently for Casey over Santorum in that Pennsylvania race. I owe a debt of thanks to Pensylvanians who replaced Santorum in the Senate.

[leftofthedial]

38. if Cheney gets anywhere near into serious trouble

Israel will attack Iran

and a "Gulf of Tonkin" event will get us into it as well.

Then another high profile false flag operation against a blue US city will be blamed on Iran or possibly another country, Syria most likely. This will create open conflict throughout the Middle East.

Then it will be considered "treasonous" to question the bush cabal about anything.

Our military is in such disarray already that expanded serious conflict will be disastrous, possibly "necessitating" martial law.

[saltpoint]

42. I'm not near any inside track enough to dismiss that narrative

but would only say that the Bush administration's dismissive and Machiavellian posture toward Constitutional liberties is borne out in it.

At the same time I think the political knees of the Republican Party have been knocked out from beneath them. The 2006 election went toward the Democrats, but beyond that demographic statistic, it was a rejection of the arena of conduct for Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, et al. Rumsfeld was booted out the door by noon the next day, I think, or very soon after in any case.

Legislative initiatives are going to be a series of unplowable soil for this administration. They just don't have any cards left to play, and the only news coming over the world wires paints them as incompetent at best and filthy oil-grabbers at worst.

If the Plame trial results in sustained damage to the vice president's office, I think he's done for.

[Independent_Liberal]

43. A lot of people here seem to be reading my mind.

If McCain were appointed to replace Cheney, Jane Napolitano can appoint a Democrat to the Senate to take McCain's seat. That would add another Dem to the Senate and take us from 51-49 to 52-48.

[saltpoint]

49. Napolitano would appoint a Democrat, thank god, and Bush would

be under considerable party pressure not to do it. But that doesn't preclude his having made a deal with McCain already. I agree with you that giving the Democratic Party another Senate vote is not what the GOP has in mind.

But Dubya doesn't seem to HAVE a mind, at least as nearly as can be discerned.

I lean toward Tim Pawlenty. He's "fresh and unknown" to the party regulars, yet regionally strategic for the Twin Cities convention, carrying no risk of a loss of a Senate seat, plenty conservative for the red meat types, and from a purply state.

[Greyhound]

45. LIEberman, so he can make a bogus claim to "bi-partisanship". n/t

[HuffleClaw]

47. who the hell would WANT the job?

they'd scurry away from bush so fast it would be hilarious.

[saltpoint]

48. I bet Alan Keyes is interested.

Or Jesse Ventura.

Or Britt Hume.

[jmowreader]

53. You guys are missing the obvious choice here

It will not be McCain for the obvious reason: Bush needs all the Republicans in the Senate he can possibly get, and he knows Janet Napolitano would send a Democrat to replace McCain. And knowing Ms. Napolitano, she'd send one with an airtight set of Articles of Impeachment already typed up on her laptop and ready to go to the House the minute she got sworn in.

It won't be McCain for the less-than-obvious but perhaps more valid reason: McCain wants to be president for eight years, not two. Anyone who takes Cheney's job does it with full knowledge that the magnitude of the changes he/she will have to make to undo Bush's reign of terror will render him completely unelectable. I don't just mean for president, either. Whoever takes over after Bush gets sent to prison will have to raise taxes by a LOT just to pay for replacing all the Army's equipment and disbanding the Department of Homeland Insecurity. The president who signed the biggest tax increase in our nation's history couldn't get elected dogcatcher.

It won't be any of those other assholes in that poll either. Most of them belong in the cell next to Dipshit's and every Democrat in the world knows it. The ones who don't need to go to jail want to be president themselves, and they also want to serve full terms.

Which brings me to my choice: Poppy Bush. He's eligible to be president. He knows how. He's not immediately indictable. He knows which White House closets contain skeletons because he put about half of them there. He actually read the 8/6/01 PDB--every former president is entitled to receive the PDB, but Poppy is the only one who does. And if he brought his faithful sidekick the Big Dog (you remember him, he's the one who actually balanced the budget after twelve years of Poppy Bush) and installed him as veep using an overly broad interpretation of the 22nd Amendment, he might actually be able to FIX what the Idiot Bastard Son did to his country.

[saltpoint]

54. I think Dubya's oedipal problem would kick in before he ever

asked Papa to come give him a hand.

Hubris is a real thing. I think it's choking George W. Bush like kudzu. His stern, cold-blooded father would only serve to remind him that he's a total failure.

[jmowreader]

56. It would take "senior Republicans" to make Dubya accept Poppy

Remember back in 1974 when a group of Senior Republicans gave Nixon two choices: tell America he isn't a crook and go back to San Clemente, or face 85 senators who will vote to convict you?

Many of those guys are still around, and they'd be more than happy to do the same thing to the Idiot Bastard Son.

[saltpoint]

57. jmowreader, I would love to see it happen. Yes. Nixon's GOp

pals in the Congress made that historic trip. Must have been a real rough morning for the president.

And I see your point here with Dubya also. It might take a GOP delegation to walk up to the White House with an ultimatum or two.

[Rex]

55. If?

These fuckers opened up Pandora's Box. I expect all of them to stand trial one day and it looks like it could be very soon.

Say hi to President Pelosi. Start practicing now.

"Hi President Pelosi."

[B Calm]

60. Before Cheney resigned he would rat out Bush!

[saltpoint]

65. At the risk of sounding like a typical partisan Democrat, I'll confess

that I'd LOVE to see that scenario.

What a pleasant lift that would be after the last 6 years.

[Swamp Rat]

61. Henry Kissinger

:D

[saltpoint]

64. Henry Kissinger. HENRY KISSINGER!?!?!? Dear god let it not be so!

An evil, dark, sinister, underhanded, vile human being.

But your rendering of him in lurid nuclear shades looks just about right to me.

Howdy, Swamp Rat.

[NuttyFluffers]

62. it's hard to replace the avatar of the GOP, a pure embodiment of evil...

i mean, who else could play the role of Cheney? i don't think even digging up Strom and making him a marionette would do adequate justice. there must be a far more abyssmal choice that i'm overlooking...

[EFerrari]

63. Newt. (I can't even make this a sentence.)

:scared:

[mikehiggins]

66. I voted for Jomentum BUT

I really think it naive to think Cheney is going to do anything he doesn't want to do. If he wants to quit, he'll quit. If not, he'll hang tough, even as the villagers approach with torches in hand.

Me, I don't think this "new" democratic majority has the stones to take him on directly, so it is really a moot question to me.

[saltpoint]

67. Fair enough, mikehiggins. And I definitely see your point on Uncle

Dick's stubbornness.

Dubya's losing ground with no visible means of regaining it. Sometimes in presidents' sagging chances to regain momentum they make dramatic staff changes.

But you're right. Cheney might have to be shoved out. He may not leave of his own volition.

[madinmaryland]

68. George Allen.

That would make to phony cowboys.

[paulk]

69. it has to be someone a Democratically controlled Senate

would approve.

They would never approve someone who could stand for office in 2008 - so that takes out McCain.

They would never approve someone who is a proven incompetent - so that takes out Rice.


'Course that doesn't mean Bush wouldn't appoint either of those two - I just don't think they would get the job.

-----------

I voted for Danforth - he seems kind of a neutral pick - well liked in the Senate still, no further political ambitions...