The Jewish Taliban: women forced to sit at the back of buses.

[Hoping4Change]

Women taking this fight to Israel's Supreme Court. In some nieghbourhoods women are attacked with bleach for what is deemed inappropriate dress.


"JERUSALEM — ...Miriam Shear's day quickly turned ugly when she was ordered by a religious man to move to the back of the bus, a common practice on many routes serving the religious population. ... He yelled and spat on her. Incensed, she spat back. In the 20-minute scuffle that followed, which was joined by four other men, she was slapped, pushed out of her seat and onto the floor, beaten and kicked; her hair covering fell off, a great shame for a married religious woman, and she suffered bruising to her cheek.

Snip


But the bus question is part of a growing trend of what observers say is an increasing drive for religious purity in some parts of Haredi society in the face of growing Western and secular influences. In recent months, reports have emerged of so-called bleach patrols trolling the religious neighbourhoods of Jerusalem, throwing bleach on the clothing of women they deem to be immodest and threatening clothing stores whose displays are considered too racy. At least two clothing stores -- one in Jerusalem, one in the religious community of Bnei Brak -- have also been set on fire in attacks associated with their wares.

More serious is a new rabbinical ruling that has ordered an end to postsecondary degree programs for Haredi women, even within ultra-orthodox educational institutions, a move that threatens to drive many of their large families deeper into poverty. In this society, a man who spends his days studying religious texts is of high regard, and women are expected to work to support their families."



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070203.wxisrael03/BNStory/International/home

[Jacobin]

1. Are these people being arrested?

[Hoping4Change]

5. Its under investigation. Driver denied it happened but many witnesses came forward.

The article I just found in Haaretz is even more shocking because it describes the attack in more detail and includes the fact that 4 men assaulted Ms Shear.

http://haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=801449&contrassID=19

[peacetalksforall]

8. Filthy cowards.

[951-Riverside]

2. The middle east needs to wake up and chase out the fundies pronto n/t

[Hoping4Change]

12. It that were possible, where would you have them go?

[951-Riverside]

20. 6ft underground or prison. n/t

[Warpy]

3. Yep, a fundy is a fundy is a fundy

and governments go all weak in the knees when it comes to reminding them that the rest of us live here, too....especially when they're attacking women.

Somebody needs to teach women how to fight dirty.

[Hoping4Change]

6. Right on. I recalled this article when I saw a thread about Islamists

flooding Europe with books about Creationism.

[Cerridwen]

4. "Not for me, but I support it for others."

"There is a very strong feeling of attack from the outside world," said Tzvia Greenfield, a Haredi woman and former left-wing member of the Knesset who holds a doctorate in political philosophy. "We have to make choices, and they're never perfect."

<snip>

"I'm very conflicted, all the time," said Ms. Greenfield. She, too, has faced the question of whether to move to the back of the bus and has so far stayed at the front, though she faced nothing more than angry looks for her decision. "When it came to me personally, I couldn't play by the rules. But I'm not sure I did the right thing. The question for liberal thinkers is to find the right equilibrium between these two main concerns: women's rights and human rights on one hand, and the right of the group to maintain its way of life." (emphasis mine)

edit: formatting

[Hoping4Change]

7. So should certain communities go merrily along with

Clitorectomies? I think the Leftists are utterly wrong with their notions of protecting groups and their traditions over and above the rights of individuals.

[Cerridwen]

13. I was paraphrasing Ms. Greenfield's thinking.....n/t

[Cerridwen]

14. dupe - computer hiccup........n/t

[The Magistrate]

10. Ms. Greenfield Is A Rather Muddled Thinker, Ma'am

No group has the right to perpetuate itself if doing so requires restricting the basic human rights of some of its members. There is nothing here at all to balance.

[Cerridwen]

19. I agree on both points.

Which is why I was pointing out that even those who would 'perpetuate itself' are incapable of the same level of commitment to their ideals which they demand from others. Perhaps if they first tried to 'practice what they preach' they would have a better understanding of what is 'wrong' with what it is they preach.

[Hoping4Change]

21. The problem with fundies is that they ARE practicing what they preach.

Tolerance and open-mindedness are not fundies principles. Enforcing religious edicts is the name of the game.

[Hoping4Change]

23. OOps I misread your post. Please ignore my previous reply.

:spank: My bad.

[Cerridwen]

26. No worries.

:hi:

I knew I should have made my posts clearer. I seem to be coming down off my caffeine. Time to refill my cup; or get an IV .

B-)

[muntrv]

9. No matter what the religion, all fundies are bad.

[Meshuga]

11. That is outrageous

What an asshole! In Judaism we call these examples as Khillul HaShem (desecration of the name of God). Khillul HaShem is the worse sin in Judaism and to say that you are religious then act without kindness is considered desecration of the name of God. This is a perfect example of a person making God look bad.

[rockymountaindem]

15. Good post

My sentiments exactly

[Hoping4Change]

17. Article in Harretz describes a more appalling scenario. Four men

not one assaulted Ms Shear and many people on board just sat there as she was being kicked after falling to the floor.

http://haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=80144...

[Rosemary2205]

16. The US isn't immune to this either.

Why people think it's OK to harm other people in the name of ideology is beyond my understanding. Seems every culture has this problem of one group terrorizing each other. Whether it's jim crow, or ecoterrorists, or anti-choicers or homophobes.

So often we Americans read these type of articles about religious zealots in other parts of the world and think "oh how disgusting, how primitive" - but the US is really not much better if at all -- certainly after gitmo and abu ghraib we can't claim the high road. -- after 911 muslim women could not be alone in public for fear of being attacked. We are really no better.

[Hoping4Change]

18. Who is arguing otherwise. The point is that fundies no matter the

stripe are raving violent prone idiots.

[Rosemary2205]

28. This is not a fundie problem this is a human problem.

not all the racists, bigots and violent ideologs in the world are religious fundies. The religion is the excuse, not the reason. If the entire world were secular and no religion existed on the planet, we'd still have one group abusing another group over ideology of some sort in the name of "my" group having more of the recourses and power.

[Hoping4Change]

29. I disagree with you because secular is not the opposite of

religious fundamentalism. One can denounce fundamentalism without denouncing religion. The problem with fundamentalists is that they are literalists when interpreting their scriptures. For them their respective holy books frame the world and behaviour into black and white, and whatever was once conceived as right behaviour will be right no matter what, the passing of millennium accounts for nothing, human knowledge accounts for nothing. No matter how anyone spins it fundamentalists are close-minded and that close-mindedness creates big problems in the modern world.

[seabeyond]

22. every fundamentalist religion is about demeaning and degrading women

praise the lord.

hallelujah

i say with scorn. what is it about these men that they feel so inept, they have to make a woman so much less.

[progressivebydesign]

24. Isn't that always the case? Religion was invented to control women.

I'm convinced of it. I think the guys figured out early on that we are a force to be reckoned with, and decided to deal with us as strictly as possible. This is why I'd never become part of an organized religion.

[The Magistrate]

25. That Is Pretty Much The Long And Short Of It, Ma'am

[sakabatou]

27. >_

These are reasons why I dropped out of the overly-religious Jewish way (Chassidic et al.), to the not-so religious (conservative etc.)

[Matariki]

30. god - why do 'religious' men hate women so much?

</ rhetorical question>