All this talk about "gut feelings"......another LIHOP or MIHOP?

[jojo54]

It really makes me wonder. This administration is losing ground every minute of every day and what worries me is just how far they're willing go to build back what they call patriotism in this country.

Am I just being paranoid here?

[SusanaMontana41]

1. If you are, I am too

It's not paranoia if it's a reasonable fear.

[Norquist Nemesis]

2. CYA for incompetent cronies ... also known as "lessons learned" n/t

[Mnemosyne]

48. And there is an office for that; for the Army at least -

http://call.army.mil/

[bryant69]

3. Well it's a common enough paranoia if it is paranoia

MIHOP/LIHOP attacks have been predicted with some regularity since 2003 at least.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[seemslikeadream]

4. yea on the Kurds

:shrug:


Turkey had massed 140,000 soldiers on its border with Iraq

[rudy23]

5. That's what I think. Somebody's trying to look like a genius in retrospect , and I'm afraid of why

they're so confident in these predictions.

I think Santorum is thinking that if he's right, he can jump back into the political game.

[snappyturtle]

11. For those who want to know what Santorum said:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_mac_mcki_070708_red_alert_3a_has_santo.htm

[TexasLawyer]

20. Why would a terror attack on American soil

make Americans more gung ho about the war in Iraq??!!?? I would wonder why our eye was off the ball halfway around the world, instead of paying attention to police-work, intelligence gathering, and disaster preparedness at home.

Why couldn't we respond more quickly to Katrina? Why couldn't we keep out one guy with TB? Could it be that we're too distracted, have no National Guard any more, etc...?

An attack would make many people even MORE committed to ending the war.

[bananarepublican]

35. MARTIAL LAW! n/t

[SmokingJacket]

40. I dunno... the stuff I hear from people...

I wouldn't be surprised if an attack on American soil threw a sizable segment of the population into another patriotic frenzy. I **still** hear crap like, "they hate us for our freedoms," "they won't be happy until there are camels walking down 5th Avenue," etc.

:shrug: I've given up trying to figure people out. Hate to be cynical, but, you know.

[reprehensor]

42. Not the 35%ers

The terrified zombies who believe anything Bushler says.

At this point, there is nothing stopping Bushler from becoming the de facto dictator following a "Catastrophic Emergency";

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=National_Continuity_Policy

National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive

Assignment of Power to Executive Branch

The directive assigns sole power to the executive branch of government.

"The President shall lead the activities of the Federal Government for ensuring constitutional government."

------------------

Implementation: "Catastrophic Emergency"

The directive states that this power could/would be exercised in the case of a "Catastrophic Emergency", meaning "any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions ..."

COG=Bushler for life.

[JohnyCanuck]

49. "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,

it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."

James Madison, while a United States Congressman

Military Dictatorship USA?

by Norman D. Livergood

We usually think of a nation being controlled by a military dictatorship when a military leader seizes control through a putsch, as in the case of General Pervez Musharraf in Pakistan or Saddam Hussein in Iraq. The previous government is overthrown and a military strong man places himself in power with few if any constraints from judicial or legislative oversight.

But we must look for the essence of a military dictatorship, those features which are present whenever this form of oppression occurs. In essence, a military dictatorship is a form of government in which absolute power is concentrated in a repressive ruler or a small clique who use military and police power to dominate the people mentally and physically.

Taking this definition as our touchstone, in the United States we know we're living under a military dictatorship when we see:

* disaster aid deliberately withheld by White House and Pentagon to impose unfettered military control

* a leader retaining power through stealing the election of 2004 and put into power in 2000 by a coup d'etat, not through democratic elections

* the military used to control the civilian population in violation of the U.S. Constitution

* the president ordering a US citizen held indefinitely by the military

* a shadow government being set up consisting entirely of executive branch officials in violation of the Constitution

* government informants spying on fellow citizens

* the highest amount of government funds going to military initiatives:

o taxpayer money being used to subsidize and fund domestic and foreign "defense" corporations

o taxpayer money being used to subsidize and fund domestic and foreign military operations: wars, embargoes, training, etc.

* a dictatorial ruling clique creating unnecessary, homocidal wars as a way of remaining in power

* the spread of militaristic values and the increasing power of the military in our society


All these conditions are now present in the United States.

http://www.hermes-press.com/militarismindex.htm

[yodermon]

51. I agree with you , BUT

desperate & cornered rabid dogs may do anything.
if they MIHOP again, it will not necessarily be to garner more support for Iraqnam, but to simply usurp the Constitution altogether.

[Felinity]

27. From the link above

"“In an alarming display of fearmongering, former Republican Senator Rick Santorum has suggested that a series of ‘unfortunate events,’ namely terrorist attacks, will occur within the next year and change American citizen's perception of the war.

“Santorum went on to clearly imply that terror attacks will occur inside America which will alter the body politic and lead to a reversal of the anti-war sentiment now dominating the country.” (http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/july2007/070707changeview.htm )

For those of us who have carefully studied events prior to and leading up to 9/11, this sets off giant alarm bells, because there were inadvertent tip-offs about that “unfortunate event” as well. In fact Watson reported about one of them in an earlier article:. . ."

Another fine Christian out to defuse the dangerous "anti-war sentiment now dominating the country."

ANY IRONY HERE?

Jesus must hate us peace mongers. I feel so fucking unholy.

[AntiFascist]

28. I keep thinking about the comment made recently by the Republican Party head...

in Arkansas. He actually had the audacity to say that he hoped there would be another terrorist attack in the US so that it would force people to appreciate the President's efforts in Iraq. How many Republicans are actively putting these "hopes" into practice and who, then, are the real terrorist threats that we have to worry about? I wonder if people like Santorum are making these comments as veiled threats? The Religious Right and the government are sounding more and more like the mafia every day.

[Loge23]

6. Anything is "on the table" with these guys

What was once a "tin-foil hat" moment is everyday reality with this administration.
Nothing is as it appears to be.
A most peculiar time in our history.

[jojo54]

9. Yeah, I've noticed that not too many tin foil icons have been

floating around lately.

[havocmom]

12. Yep. A junta that mortgages America to China then give the $$ to pals

who let the troops drink untreated river water in a war zone, while racking up a body count as a diversion... well, there is NOTHING they wouldn't stoop to in protecting their own sorry criminal asses.

ALREADY, it will take a multi-generational effort to pay for the war. It will take GENERATIONS to assuage the hatred and blood-feud fighting terrorists they have created in the world. They have assured the US will be fighting for economic stability and good will again for the next 100 years.

No, nothing is beyond them. cheney is not about to be taken and held accountable. EVERYTHING is on the table for him.

[Warpy]

7. Considering how miserably and consistently their guts have failed them

on everything from relegating Al Qaeda to the back burner in early 2001 to the insistence that invading Iraq was a good thing to screwing up the tax code and nearly bankrupting the country making them richer (look at the fall in the dollar) to blowing the Katrina recovery off to turning all those corners in their war, I have to say I'm not a bit alarmed by anything the guts of those men are telling them.

Never before has a government turned out to be so consistently wrong about everything.

[nashville_brook]

8. you'd have to be asleep not to ask this...

[ellenfl]

10. except then they could not say what a great job they

have been doing protecting us! it's catch-22 for them.

ellen fl

[Golden Raisin]

13. No. I wouldn't exclude anything from

this administration's bag of tricks.

[Tulum_Moon]

15. Just happy not being in a major city.

I will avoid them, and have been, till he is taken out of office. I have a "gut" feeling they are trying to in some way prepare us for a dirty bomb. That might back the people behind them nuke Iran. It will be MIHOP. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the dropped a bomb on Mecca!

[Golden Raisin]

22. I'm kind of inured to it

as I'm smack dab in the middle of Manhattan and watched the toxic cloud from the collapsed Towers move slowly and ominously up the Hudson River on Wednesday when the winds changed.

[MadHound]

14. You're not alone

I went straight to "What have you heard coming down the road" when I heard Skeletor was listening to his gut.

[Zywiec]

16. Yes, I believe you are. n/t

[ljm2002]

17. You're being paranoid...

...and so am I.

[BattyDem]

18. Paranoid or not ...

I'm right there with you! :scared:

[cgrindley]

19. LIHOP and MIHOP = insane beliefs akin to $cientology (nt)

[Ezlivin]

25. Operation Northwoods - MIHOP

Gulf of Tonkin - MIHOP

Pearl Harbor - LIHOP

Murrah Building Bombing - MIHOP

WTC Bombing - LIHOP (with elements of MIHOP)

9/11 - MIHOP/LIHOP

"Insane" beliefs, eh?

[cgrindley]

26. All but one are clearly insane

Tonkin = jury still out

everything else = nuts

[musette_sf]

32. see post 31 n/t

[Ezlivin]

33. The only insanity is believing that there are no such things as false flag operations

I don't believe the information we have concerning the Gulf of Tonkin incident is open for conjecture any longer.

So you disagree with the DOD's own documentation on "Operation Northwoods"? They conceived of a false flag (or MIHOP) operation back in the sixties. Do you think they've changed their modus operandi during that time?

You don't believe the NY Times when they document the government's involvement with the semi-failed bombing of the WTC in 1993? (LIHOP)

And although rumors of foreknowledge of the attack on Pearl Harbor started the day of the attacks, FOIA requests have shed new light on events leading to the attack. Robert Stinnett has written "Day of Deceit" detailing the foreknowledge. (LIHOP)

Do you deny the documents from the ATF, FBI and U.S. Marshall's Service and witness testimony that officials in the federal government were given prior warning about the impending attack on the Murrah Building? Or the testimony of General Partin that the damage was not caused by a single ANFO bomb but rather several bombs? (LIHOP/MIHOP)

And concerning 9/11, I guess you didn't hear about the President's PDB in August? Or the countless warnings he received before the attack? At the very best 9/11 is LIHOP; at its worst it's MIHOP.

I eagerly await your thoughtful reply (chock full of links and other supporting evidence proving "insanity").

[HCE SuiGeneris]

46. Nice insular belief system you have working for you.

Stay warm now.

[JohnyCanuck]

38. And don't forget Operation Gladio.

NATO, The CIA and MI6 certainly had their fingers in that false flag pie as well.

NATO's Secret Armies: Operation Gladio and Terrorism in Western Europe

The CIA and the British secret service MI6, in collaboration with the military alliance NATO and European military secret services set up a network of clandestine anticommunist armies in Western Europe after World War II. The secret soldiers were trained on remote islands in the Mediterranean and in unorthodox warfare centers in England and in the United States by the Green Berets and SAS Special Forces. The network was armed with explosives, machine guns and high-tech communication equipment hidden in underground bunkers and secret arms caches in forests and mountain meadows. In some countries, the secret army linked up with right-wing terrorists who in a secret war engaged in political manipulation, harassment of left wing parties, massacres, coup d'etats and torture.

Codenamed "Gladio" ('the sword'), the Italian secret army was exposed in 1990 by Italian Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti to the Italian Senate, whereupon the press spoke of the "the best kept, and most damaging, political-military secret since World War II" (Observer, 18. November 1990) and observed that "The story seems straight from the pages of a political thriller." (The Times, November 19, 1990). Ever since, so-called 'stay-behind' armies of NATO have also been discovered in France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxemburg, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, Austria, Greece and Turkey. They were internationally coordinated by the Pentagon and NATO and had their last known meeting in the NATO-linked Allied Clandestine Committee (ACC) in Brussels in October 1990.

http://www.amazon.com/NATOs-Secret-Army-Operation-Contemporary/dp/0714685003

NATO’s secret armies linked to terrorism?
by Daniele Ganser

Andreotti revealed that the secret Gladio army had been hidden within the Defense Ministry as a subsection of the military secret service, SISMI. General Vito Miceli, a former director of the Italian military secret service, could hardly believe that Andreotti had lifted the secret, and protested:

"I have gone to prison because I did not want to reveal the existence of this super secret organization. And now Andreotti comes along and tells it to parliament!" According to a document compiled by the Italian military secret service in 1959, the secret armies had a two-fold strategic purpose: firstly, to operate as a so-called “stay-behind” group in the case of a Soviet invasion and to carry out a guerrilla war in occupied territories; secondly, to carry out domestic operations in case of “emergency situations”.

The military secret services’ perceptions of what constituted an “emergency” was well defined in Cold War Italy and focused on the increasing strength of the Italian Communist and the Socialist parties, both of which were tasked with weakening NATO “from within”. Felice Casson, an Italian judge who during his investigations into right-wing terrorism had first discovered the secret Gladio army and had forced Andreotti to take a stand, found that the secret army had linked up with right-wing terrorists in order to confront “emergency situations”. The terrorists, supplied by the secret army, carried out bomb attacks in public places, blamed them on the Italian left, and were thereafter protected from prosecution by the military secret service. "You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game,” right-wing terrorist Vincezo Vinciguerra explained the so-called “strategy of tension” to Casson.

“The reason was quite simple. They were supposed to force these people, the Italian public, to turn to the state to ask for greater security. This is the political logic that lies behind all the massacres and the bombings which remain unpunished, because the state cannot convict itself or declare itself responsible for what happened."

No comment from NATO or the CIA

How strongly NATO and US intelligence backed and supported the use of terror in Italy in order to discredit the political left during the Cold War remains subject of ongoing research. General Gerardo Serravalle, who had commanded the Italian Gladio secret army from 1971 to 1974, confirmed that the secret army “could pass from a defensive, post-invasion logic, to one of attack, of civil war”.

The Italian Senate chose to be more explicit and concluded in its investigation in 2000: "Those massacres, those bombs, those military actions had been organized or promoted or supported by men inside Italian state institutions and, as has been discovered more recently, by men linked to the structures of United States intelligence." (emphasis added /jc) Ever since the discovery of the secret NATO armies in 1990, research into stay-behind armies has progressed only very slowly, due to very limited access to primary documents and the refusal of both NATO and the CIA to comment. On 5 November 1990, a NATO spokesman told an inquisitive press: "NATO has never contemplated guerrilla war or clandestine operations”.

The next day, NATO officials admitted that the previous day’s denial had been false, adding that the alliance would not comment on matters of military secrecy. On 7 November, NATO’s highest military official in Europe, Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR) US General John Galvin, together with NATO’s highest civilian official, Secretary-General Manfred Wörner, briefed NATO ambassadors behind closed doors. "Since this is a secret organization, I wouldn't expect too many questions to be answered,” reasoned a senior NATO diplomat, who wished to remain unnamed. “If there were any links to terrorist organizations, that sort of information would be buried very deep indeed.” Former CIA director William Colby confirmed in his memoirs that setting up the secret armies in Western Europe had been “a major program” for the CIA. The project started after World War II in total secrecy, and access to information was limited “to the smallest possible coterie of the most reliable people, in Washington, in NATO” and in the countries concerned. Yet when in Italy in 1990 former CIA director Admiral Stansfield Turner was questioned on television on Gladio, he strictly refused to answer any questions on the sensitive issue, and as the interviewer insisted with respect for the terror victims, Stansfield angrily ripped off his microphone and shouted: "I said, no questions about Gladio!", whereafter the interview was over.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/GAN412A.html

There's a 3 part BBC documentary on Operation Gladio originally aired in the UK in 1992 that's now posted at Google Video. http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=operation+gladio

[musette_sf]

31. ignorance is bliss n/t

[smoogatz]

21. I think it smells more like good old pre-election fear mongering.

Not that another attack followed by yet another round of power grabs--possibly including martial law--would surprise me all that much.

[femrap]

23. I was thinking the same thing...

When this regime gets backed into a corner and starts hearing the 'I' word bandied about, I fear they'll perform a False Flag Operation and blame it on Iran.

[Virginia Dare]

24. A few possibilities..

A) He's full of shit, and they're just catapulting the propaganda again

B) They ARE actually worried about something happening, but they can't do shit to stop it, so skeletor is just trying to cover his ass so he doesn't get fall guyed like Brownie did

C) There's a LIHOP or MIHOP in the works, but in that case, why would they raise suspicians by advertising it first?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

29. Just watched "V" for Vendetta last night - that made me even further paranoid.

I could see Rudy Guiliani presiding over the country just like the "leader."

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

30. No, I don't think you are. nt.

[Stinky The Clown]

34. I do NOT believe in LI- or MIHOP. I DO believe they are capable of both of them.

In my view 9/11 was what it seems to be on the surface.

In my view, these things will stop at nothing to get what they want. While I don't think they were anything but innocently asleep at the switch the last time, if causing it this time would further their aims, I put nothing beyond them.

[OneBlueSky]

37. "In my view 9/11 was what it seems to be on the surface." . . .

what it seemed to be on the surface was a couple of controlled demolitions . . .

[SmokingJacket]

41. There's actually no argument about LIHOP.

He was warned. He chose to ignore the warnings. Hence, LIHOP, at the very least.

The most generous interpretation of the administration's lack of action on the August warnings is that terrorism simply wasn't on his radar -- but when you look at the number and strength of those warnings, it just makes no sense that it wasn't.

I have no clue what "really" happened on that day -- but you can't deny that Bush's inaction ahead of time was a deliberate decision. WHY is debatable.

[Stinky The Clown]

50. In truth, to focus on those warnings after the fact .....

.... gives them more importance than perhaps they were given before the fact. In context, these warnings - in particular, the Aug 6 PBD - were read to the Bush boy (he never reads things himself) while he was on the pig farm, vacationing. Further, he was focused then on missile shields and star wars and cold war tactics and stealing our social security. I expect it is entirely possible that he and his camp followers and court jesters simply were incompetent and failed to give it any consideration beyond the single reading while he was slathering on a mixture of sun screen and bug repellent.

[SmokingJacket]

52. To me it's almost a direct parallel to Katrina.

What was about to happen was obvious. They believed that a hands-off approach would actually benefit them. So they chose to ignore it.

[noise]

54. It wasn't just Bush

We are supposed to believe the entire US intelligence community failed. It isn't a credible explanation.

[StarryNite]

36. My thoughts exactly

It worked before. Right after 911 most Americans willingly went along with whatever they did. Now they are really slipping and a new "event" would scare people into following along with whatever they want. I really fear this is a big possibility.

[reprehensor]

39. No.

http://joecrubaugh.com/blog/10-false-flags-that-changed-the-world/

It's the way things have been done for years and years.

Stage it, fake it, LIHOP, MIHOP, IHOP, whatever.

I'm pretty sure they're willing to call the bluff of the hoi polloi in this country.

[MorningGlow]

43. MIHOP

It's all that's ever been, after all. I firmly believe that.

I'd just prefer to believe that the majority of Murkins are not going to fall for it again.

[TheBaldyMan]

44. It's a case of MHUMOA

or My Head's Up My Own Arsehole

[HCE SuiGeneris]

45. These are criminals. They are capable of anything.

They are corrupt to the bone and do not hold our best interests at heart. You are correct in suspecting them of furthering their agenda at any expense.

[slank]

47. feelings? OR he scooped the NSA's next scheduled 'terror' event?

Maybe he just has a direct line to the planning department of the NSA?
Where they choreograph 'terror' events.
One, Two, Three, Kick
Four, Five, Six, Crash

The NSA did Oklahoma City.
They did 911.

He just managed to get a hold of the plans before hand.

Maybe he got special clearance because he is actually an Israeli citizen?

[Kazak]

53. I believe they're capable, but...

for what end? Keeping Bush in office? That's in-fucking-sane! Keeping Republican in office? 'Hardly seems like the way to go about it... In any event, I'm afraid they may be planning something if only because they're stupid enough to do it.