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Will I. Lewis Libby Testify? (Plame Thread #14)

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 09:17 AM
Original message
Will I. Lewis Libby Testify? (Plame Thread #14)
Edited on Tue Feb-06-07 09:20 AM by H2O Man
" …. appellate judges are less likely to overturn jury verdicts if the jurors had seen the defendant testify and concluded he was lying on the stand." – Hurricane; James Hirsch; pages 153-154.

Late yesterday, Team Libby filed a "Brief of Defendant I. Lewis Libby on Admissibility of State of Mind Evidence Without Defendant’s Testimony" (Document 264). At issue is if Judge Walton will allow the defense to enter into evidence the same amount of supporting evidence, regardless of if Scooter takes the stand, to prop up their claim that "any misstatements he made were the result of confusion, mistake, or faulty memory, rather than deliberate lies." (Doc.264; page 1)

"We emphasize that at this point Mr. Libby has not decided whether he will testify," they write. "He will make that decision, as defendants customarily do, on the advice of counsel after having the opportunity to assess the full prosecution case and other evidence presented during the defense case. …. In keeping with the pretrial notice requirement of CIPA 5, the Court and the parties assumed during the CIPA proceedings that Mr. Libby would testify. But as we demonstrate below, that assumption does not mean that evidence of the matters commanding his attention will be irrelevant if he ultimately exercises his right to remain silent.

"1. At the outset of the CIPA proceedings, defense counsel observed that it was ‘very likely’ Mr. Libby would testify but did not commit to such testimony and noted that aspects of the memory defense might be presented through cross-examination of government witnesses and through defense witnesses. … The Court as well has recognized the possibility that Mr. Libby might not testify. …. for example, the Court declared that ‘the defendant will therefore be permitted to introduce documentray proof or testify with some degree of detail, if he chooses to testify, about the events and activities he was engaged in during those relevant time periods. …"

It is interesting to note that while the prosecution’s case has remained focused on proving the specific charges against Libby, the defense’s tactics tend to shift. First there was the idea that it was a matter of a few people remembering things differently: perhaps Mr. Russert was the one who "misremembered" the conversation with Scooter. As the prosecution made clear that there was overwhelming evidence that Scooter had known about Plame’s identity long before his conversation with Russert, Team Libby shifted to a "memory defense." Shortly after Judge Walton rejected the defense’s memory "expert," it was announced they were planning to call VP Dick Cheney to testify for the defense.

In their "Proposed Theory of Defense Instruction," the defense attorneys claim, "Mr. Libby denies that he intended to or did obstruct justice, make intentionally false statements to the FBI, or make intentionally false statements to the grand jury. He contends that he told the FBI and grand jury his honest recollections at the time, and to the extent any of those recollections were incorrect, his mistakes were innocent." (Document 249) In theory, that is a valid defense. And even if we know that Scooter is guilty on all of the charges he is faced with, we appreciate that he has the Constitutional right to a fair trial – including putting on as strong of a defense as possible.

Scooter has the right to have his attorneys put on that defense, even if he decides not to testify. But it seems clear that, if it were true that "any conversations he had about Ambassador Wilson’s wife during June and July 2003 were so brief, and the information so incidental to the issues he was dealing with, that he honestly did not recall them when he was questioned about them," he would want to get up on that witness stand and look the jurors in the eye, and tell them the truth. It would seem that his attorneys would want him to, also. If the prosecution’s case were so weak that they did not feel he needed to, it would be one thing. But few people think that Mr. Fitzgerald’s case can honestly be described as "weak."

Thus, it seems possible that the strength of the case Mr. Fitzgerald is presenting is what troubles Team Libby. I suspect that it may be the decisions Judge Walton made yesterday about the Libby tapes and the newspaper articles, that are the most significant factors. Let’s again look at what Team Libby state in Document 249: "Mr. Libby further contends that when the investigation began, he was confident that he had not provided any information about Mr. Wilson’s wife to Robert Novak, and that he had not disclosed classified information about Mr. Wilson or his wife to any other reporters."

"The day of his interview with the FBI, I. Lewis ‘Scooter’ Libby hand-marked copies of two Washington Post articles about the breadth of a criminal-leak investigation, and underlined were key passages suggesting any official who told reporters about a CIA officer could be in legal jeopardy …. Government prosecutors argued that the October 2003 articles show Libby … had a motive to lie about his secret conversations with reporters and knew he was in potential trouble," wrote Carol Leonnig in a 2-4-07 Washington Post article. (Prosecutor: Libby kept articles on leak risks)

The significance of this is apparent when added to Scooter’s grand jury testimony. Team Libby had argued to keep "any portion of the transcript other than those that reflect the false declarations with which the defendant has been charged" from being admitted into evidence. However, as Mr. Fitzgerald noted in the Government’s Memorandum of Law in Support of Admission of Complete Transcript of Defendant’s Grand Jury Testimony," Team Libby did not cite any cases "in which the Court has precluded the government from introducing the complete transcript of a defendant’s grand jury testimony in support of perjury charges."

Mr. Fitzgerald noted that "the defense has indicated that it intends to contest the materiality of the charged false declarations by arguing that the focus of the grand jury’s investigation was the leak of information regardingValerie Wilson’s employment to Robert Novak, rather than leaks to other reporters (or that the defendant believed the scope of the investigation to be so limited),…." Team Libby wants to argue that Scooter didn’t tell Novak – that it was Armitage and Rove. But, Mr. Fitzgerald notes, "The government is entitled to demonstrate through all of the questions asked of defendant that the scope of the grand jury investigation included: (a) identifying all individuals involved in leaking information concerning Ms. Wilson’s employment to any reporters; (b) determining the circumstances under which information regarding Ms. Wilson'’ employment was learned and leaked by such individuals; and (c) determining whether false information was provided to the FBI or the grand jury. ….

"Second, admission of the complete transcript is necessary in order to establish that the defendant made the charged false declarations under non-coercive circumstances, and in response to careful. Thorough, and fair questioning. …

"Third, in light of the defendant’s planned ‘memory’ defense, it is critical for the jury to have an opportunity to assess the quality of defendant’s memory as reflected in his testimony throughout both grand jury appearances. …."(Doc. 231)

The new Team Libby filing indicates that it is possible the defense will not call Scooter to testify. They note they will, regardless of if he takes the stand or not, attempt a memory defense. That will include providing information in three areas outlined in the document: (1) the "statement admitting relevant facts" made by the government, which was the substitution(s) made by Mr. Fitzgerald that were allowed under CIPA; (2) testimony by persons Libby worked with; and (3) the morning intelligence briefing materials.

They write, "Mr. Libby also proposes to present testimony from persons with whom he worked closely at the OVP. Those witnesses -–potentially including Vice President Cheney and one or more of Mr. Libby’s then-deputies – will testify, based on personal knowledge, that certain national security matters consumed Mr. Libby’s attention during the period at issue."

Will Team Libby call Scooter to the stand? Or will they advise him to sit quietly? Perhaps more interesting, will Team Libby call VP Cheney to testify about his "personal knowledge"? It’s going to be interesting to see how this all plays out.

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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kick of anticipation. - n/t
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. Interesting dilemma for team Libby.
They lose either way IMO.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. To paraphrase Woody Allen,
Team Libby has reached a croosroads: one path leads to conviction and incarceration, while the other leads to his being found guilty and sent to prison. Let us hope they have the wisdom to make the correct choice.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
25. LOL!
Or to put it bluntly, he's royally fucked.
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wovenpaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
3. yay! top of the thread-thank you H2O man
I enjoy reading these updates every day-truth does rise! Thank you for your insight, research and wisdom (and to the other avid Fitzmas DUers as well!)

:hi:
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. I continue to doubt Cheney will be placed on the stand.
I see nothing for Libby to gain & much potential embarrassment or worse (e.g. criminal exposure) for Cheney. Any attempt to extract testimony from Cheney--by either side--could maybe result in a Supreme Court test of executive privilege or the like, substantially delaying the proceedings. Such a delay would probably be the only benefit Libby could attain by trying to compel Sneer's testimony--a not insignificant benefit, to be sure.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. I agree.
It's difficult to think of the advantage of having Cheney on the stand. The only thing that I can think of is that Team Libby only represents Scooter. They are not concerned about what difficulties testifying could cause for Cheney. So if putting him on the stand could provide any cover for Libby, which potentially outweighs the damage Cheney's testimony might do to the defense, they would call him.

But everything that has taken place thus far seems to indicate that Cheney's involvement was extremely significant, not only in the decision-making process that led to exposing Plame's identity, but also in terms of giving Scooter a reason to lie to the FBI and grand jury. That would seem a ball & chain the defense would not want to lock onto their case.

Yet I still hope Cheney takes that witness stand!
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
46. For Team Libby to leave the evidence regarding Cheney's disclosure of Plame unrefuted ...
... by Cheney himself (the "horse's mouth" is the sole valid refutation at this point) is to establish that disclosure as a fact. Further, since Cheney is the source of ALL of Scooter's duties and activities, they would fail to properly challenge the high significance of the Wilson/Plame "damage control" in the hierarchy of Scooter's attentions over a SIGNIFICANT period of time. It's tantamount to letting the underlying facts of the case stand unrefuted. Since those facts are adequate to establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, they're surrendering to a Guilty verdict on all counts. Indeed, given Walton's advisories, it's doubtful they'd overturn on appeal ... unless they have a corrupt appellate judge lined up. (Considering that circuit, that's not at all improbable, imho.)
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
6. What an excellent way to piss the judge off.
Edited on Tue Feb-06-07 09:37 AM by Kagemusha
Libby's team only took four freaking months to argue over what could and could not be submitted as evidence in the course of Libby's testimony in his own defense. Certainly, it's not constitutional to force Libby to testify no matter what graymail stunt he tried to pull, but by no means is the judge required to contort his own position to satisfy the idea that the defense can argue to the jury about Libby's flawed memory when Libby himself must testify to put that memory into evidence.

Edit: Here's my point. Having sat through these arguments for months, I see the problem: the jury is only permitted to evaluate EVIDENCE. That's the iron rule of the courtroom. If Libby doesn't testify and put his own memory into EVIDENCE, the jury is not supposed to consider it, and the defense should not logically be allowed to make closing arguments pleading for the jury to consider it in violation of the basic function of a trial. Arguing that "well other people's memories aren't perfect" isn't enough because THEIR memories ARE in evidence, because we're talking about witnesses that have taken the stand. That doesn't allow free reign to argue about Libby's memories absent a basis of fact (i.e. Libby's own testimony).

The writer of the article here argues Libby should be able to put on that defense anyway but... it is not so... the subject of the defense must be evidence...
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I'm a little confused on your last sentence.
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Okay, I'll direct quote..
Edited on Tue Feb-06-07 09:51 AM by Kagemusha
"Scooter has the right to have his attorneys put on that defense, even if he decides not to testify."

I say that's not so. The attorneys cannot argue that defense unless they have evidence on which to base it on, and since that evidence must be Scooter's memories, Scooter must vouch for those memories personally, because if he won't, who the hell else is supposed to? The lawyers cannot (and will not!) testify to vouch for Scooter's memories for him.

So what's supposed to happen, the lawyers make their closing arguments and the judge tells the jury to disregard the entire defense!? I'm sure the lawyers would say, hey, you can't do that, we're gonna appeal! ...But you can't consider facts not in evidence.

Example: They can't argue about whether Bush's memory was flawed or not because Bush hasn't testified in the case and isn't gonna, so it's not just irrelevant to the case (that we know of) but, without Bush testifying, his memory isn't at issue. If Cheney (who IS on the defense witness list) takes the stand, his memory can be made an issue, but only FOR CHENEY HIMSELF.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. You might be
honest and accurate enough to put that quote in the context I wrote it: I had noted that "even if we know that Scooter is guilty on all of the charges he is faced with, we appreciate that he has the Constitutional right to a fair trial – including putting on as strong of a defense as possible." I did not say that he has a right to put on any defense he wants, without any restrictions.

As Team Libby noted, "A defendant has no constitutional right, of course, to present irrelevant evidence."

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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. I concede I may have made an honest misinterpretation.
Team Libby did note that but, they are trying to have this so many ways... it's not that their evidence is irrelevant in abstract. It's that absent Libby's testimony, that evidence is relevant solely for confusing (or if you will, bamboozling) the jury. The only way for the FACT of Libby's memory not being photographic being in evidence independent of his Grand Jury testimony and the testimony of other witnesses and the evidentiary exhibits is for him to testify and vouch for that himself. Then he can bring in all the CIPA stuff argued over the preceding 4 months relevant to HIS testimony about HIS OWN MEMORY... and I wanted to make that very clear, not to impeach your writing. I have to consider Team Libby's BS in mind as I write this.

Take care.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
29. Sorry, that did not jump out at me. I read the piece in its
overall theme. I believe it had already been iterated that Libby would have to testify under that defense under rules of evidence. However, team Libby's approach is to call into question other testimony based on the possibility of other's having a flawed recollection (with the inference that their own client could have a flawed recollection).
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Well, I'm saying why I don't think Team Libby can do that here.
It's my opinion, I'm not a lawyer and I'm trying to learn all I can from FDL coverage etc. because of curiosity. When even lawyers act like the law doesn't matter, that's when I pay attention.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. Well Libby's team will definitely make you pay attention.
;-)
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Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
7. morning kick n/t
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
9. K&R
:kick:
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. "State your name, please"
"Ah, I aah. Judge, I forgot. Who am I? Why am I here? No, that was the VP candidate. Wait, it will come to me. Aspen. My name is Aspen Lev."
"Excuse me. Mr. Libby. You realize that you are under oath."
"Oath? i never swear, I swear I don't swear. I just don't recall. You see, it is my memory. Very bad. Badly bad. So bad, you don't know how bad. What were you saying?"

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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
13. Previous Plame
Edited on Tue Feb-06-07 09:58 AM by Me.
Research Forum & Threads 1,2,3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x192

H20’s Impeach Dick Cheney Threads:

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x4640


Rosesaylavee has done a fantastic job of posting the Plame & Cheney threads in the Research Forum.


Government Documents Relating To The Plame Case:

http://wid.ap.org/documents/libbytrial/index.html

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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
15. Nice. Will John Ashcroft testify? He recused himself from the investigation
Makes me wonder whay he might know.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. From "Wose Than Watergate"
"A much-rumored source of the leak has been Karl Rove, who was a consultant to Ashcroft during one or more of his political campaigns and the person many believe secured Ashcroft his post as attorney general. For this reason, as soon as the investigation commenced, there were demands that Ashcroft either appoint a special counsel or recuse himself. He stalled as long as possible before finally giving way, sending more signals that he did not want this investigation to get out of hand." -- John Dean; page 173.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
18. Oooooh, what's that smell?
Smells like cooked goose to me. Yum. :9

K & R
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. It does smack of desperation, doesn't it...
Of course they don't want Libby to go on the stand just to commit more perjury. Myself, I'd probably enjoy the spectacle.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
20. It Would Be Suicide For Libbert Not To Take The Stand
according to the judge
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Years ago,
Sonny Liston fought Chuck Wepner in what was Liston's last boxing match. Wepner, who would later be the guy who inspired the "Rocky" movies, was cut so bad that he required about 75 stitches. A reporter asked Liston if Wepner, who had refused to quit, was the bravest man he ever met. "No," Liston dead-panned, "his manager was."

Team Libby notes that Scooter will make a decision based upon "the advice of counsel." One wonders what they are telling him? Might it be time for them to do what Chuck Wepner's corner failed to do, and advise him that he should consider taking a deal?
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. One Wonders
The latest bit of woo woo coming form Team Libbert is the forcing of David Sanger, a reporter Scootie didn't tell about Plame, to testify. Apparently their theory is that as he didn't tell Sanger, that leaves all the other reporter's testimony in doubt.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. I do not think
that will carry the day for Scooter.
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
21. Thank you H2O Man.
K&R.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
22. Without both sides agreeing or stipulating to it, I think it is
impossible to admit evidence at trial without a witness identifying it and once that is done, the side offering it asks the Court to allow it to be admitted into evidence. Then, of course, the other side has the opportunity to challenge it pursuant to the Fedederal Rules of Evidence (eg is is relevant, is it hearsay, etc.)

I think Libby is going to have to testify if he wants to rely on documents to support his defense.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Right.
Judge Walton is going to make the right decisions regarding what evidence gets in if Scooter doesn't testify. And it surely will be different -- very different -- than what Team Libby might introduce should Libby take the stand.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. And as argued above
You cannot refer to evidence not introduced and admitted at trial when making your closing argument. They certainly can say things like "miss miller didn't remember, mr. ari didn't remember and our client is as human as they are - has the government proved he lied or do you think that maybe he just forgot"

The argument can be crafted to get around it, but no jury instructions will be allowed directly related to that as a defense and the jury instructions are vital.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
26. The "memory" defense
is, in many ways, comic. While we all have had the experience of forgetting something, few of us would claim that we remember something that never happened .... especially in the context that Scooter claims.

It's not just that Irving Lewis Libby plum "forgot" all the conversations he had with Cheney etc about Valerie plame -- he claimed that he remembered Tim Russert telling him about her, and was "taken aback" .... as if it were the first time he ever heard this information.

Clearly, no one else can testify that Scooter honestly remembered (or "misremembered") his conversation with Russert. Team Libby can question Russert on cross-examination about the conversation, but they will only dig Libby in deeper by doing so.

Also, there is reportedly evidence that Rove said that Libby told him that Russert had mentioned Plame. It seems unlikely that will get much mileage if Libby does not testify.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. I would like to think that if I wasn't sure about something, and
I was being interviewed by the FBI about it, I would just say "I don't remember" during the interview, not say "I do remember", but then later say "I was mistaken, I really didn't remember but I thought I did. Now I know I didn't remember".

What, did he forget that he has a bad memory?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Right.
He doesn't appear to have expressed concern that he was being tossed under the bus, either.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #26
48. It's particularly ludicrous given the abundant "reminders" he was given in the Grand Jury.
He was questioned at length about the other conversations. It's not like he wasn't given more than adequate "memory assists" in the questioning. His claims of other "memories" were questioned at every turn. Fitz covered the bases damned well.

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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
30. K&R. n/t
:hi:
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
35. when people don't take the stand in their own defense...
Don't RWers always seem to say that if the person is not guilty, they have nothing to hide - thereby implying that somebody who does not take the stand is guilty?

I wonder how they'll change their tune if Libby does not testify?

Thanks for the exellent post, as always.

I did submit a "Last throes of the Vice Presidency" LTTE the other day - I'll let you know if it makes it to print.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
36. The Wilson Legal Support Trust ....
http://wilsonsupport.org/

Donations can be sent to: The Joseph & Valerie Wilson Support Trust; P.O. Box 40918; Washington, DC 20016-0918.

I support the Wilson's effort to bring a civil case against Cheney, Libby, Rove, and Armitage.
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La_Fourmi_Rouge Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
38. Wading through GJ testimony.
I want so much for both Libby and Cheney to testify, but I do not see how Cheney can help, and Scooter is boxed in by his GJ testimony. I am afraid I will be disappointed.

My prediction: Scootie pleads out and rolls on Cheny, Rove corroborates, and Big Dick dies in the slammer. (one can hope...)
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
39. Kicking this to the top!
Quite an eventful day we've had already with Waxman. I can't wait to see what Fitz is up to.

And I agree with Walton that for Libby not to take the stand would be suicide. As far as whether Cheney will come to his defense and testify, we shall see.

:kick:
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
40. Kicking H2O Man!
:kick:
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
41. Reading today's transcripts is like watching vivisection.
Fillet of Libber.

There has to be some serious work on Plans B and C going in the Libby camp at this point.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
42. "...over two months passed
before there was any apparent Administration investigation of the July 14, 2003, disclosue of the identity of a CIA covert agent in a Robert Novak column that sourced two senior Administration ooficials. In facr, in the weeks immediately following the publication of the agent's identity, the White House was dismissive regarding questions about whether it would investigate the matter, emphsizing that it was difficult to look into reports of sources that were not named specifically. It was not until after September 26, 2003, when the media reported that the CIA had requested a Justice Department investigation, that the White House expressed concern about this leak."

-- Rep. Henry Waxman; letter to Condoleezza Rice; January 14, 2004


There are areas where DUers can begin to lobby Congress regarding investigations of the Plame scandal.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Two press briefings:
7-22-03
When a reporter asked Scott McClellan if the White House would "support an investigation" of the exposing of Valerie Plame, he responded, "Well, I'd have to look into the specifics about whether or not that characterization is accurate when you're talking about someone's cover. But let me make it very clear, that's just not the way this White House operates.

Reporter: "Could you look into it?"

McClellan: "I'm sorry. I'll be available later."


7-23-03
McClellan: "I have no reason to believe that there is any truth that that has happened. So if I thought that there was any reason to believe that something like that happened, I would --"

Reporter: "So you're saying that reporters just made it up?"

McClellan " -- try to get to the bottom. Campbell, I just said that anonymous is someone. I would like to know who that is, but it's usually a fruitless search."

(From footnote #4 of Rep Waxman's 1-14-04 letter to Condi Rice.)
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
44. Fitzgerald would not have been surprised at this latest move
by the Libby defense, in fact, he was already fighting it back on Jan. 25/07 as shown by this exchange at sidebar, taken from the live blogging at Firedoglake, NOT an official transcript but close to it, imo:

SNIP

We're still in sidebar. Nothing to add.

10:12

Here's what's going on–Libby's team is taking another bite at the graymail purpose.

It appears that Libby's team wanted to introduce the whole briefing from the day. Walton is saying the TOC is relevant, but the briefing doesn't have any relevance bc he doesn't remember the briefing. He could verify that the briefing was the briefing he gave that day, but if the info isn't going to refresh his info, then not relevant. Walton suggests he should be able to introduce the briefing to prove to the jury that the briefing is what Cline said it was.

Fitz is saying that the memory defense relates to Libby, not to the witness. He's trying to say that since Schmall doesn't recall the briefing, it should not be introduced. He points out the Walton said it was only admissible in case of Libby testifying.

Walton: I was not considering globally everything that would arise over the course of the trial.

It seems like they're going to come to some agreement that this was in the briefing–but Fitz is arguing that Cline is basically testifying.

10:36

Walton just said that if Libby didn't testify it'd be suicide.

Fitz is concerned that Libby will try to get into defense through CIPA and not testify.

Okay. This is really exciting.

Fitzgerald believes that Libby's team pulled a fast one. They got all these substitutions in based on the assumption that Libby will testify. But he points out that Libby's team has not said anything about Libby testifying. So he's worried that Libby's team will introduce everything through Schmall, and thereby avoid having Libby take the stand.

END of SNIP

http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/25/libby-live-craig-schmall-two/

From this interchange, we can get some sense of where the judge is regarding the intent of yesterday's brief which is to be allowed to put forward additional documents which would, circumstancially, bolster Libby's claim that he was far too busy on "important" issues to remember, etc.

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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
45. No on both testifying.
Edited on Tue Feb-06-07 01:44 PM by Pithy Cherub
Big risks outweigh any potential rewards as the Wilson's civil suit poses threats. VP is subject to being impeached on the stand and that poses potential issues to the pennies left of Bush's political capital. The GJ testimony may be Libby's final appearance as the defense is geared towards a later appellate ruling they desperately hope is in Liar's favor. A pardon does not stop the issue of the Civil suit either. So he has more to lose on the stand rather than off of it and at the defense table. Same with cheney.
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
47. From What I Have Heard So Far, I Would Advise Libby Not To Testify....
... His attorneys already have enough evidence, to make reasonable inferences therefrom, that Libby had a failure of memory and raise it as a defense.

If Libby takes the stand now, he can be asked questions about anything relevant to the case or the defenses. Right now Libby and his attorneys know what he is facing, his record is set and open to characterize as 'reasonable doubt.'

If Libby is questioned by Fitz, he will be making new additions to that record which could be very damaging --and the jury would have the opportunity to observe his demeanor while testifying to help determine if he is telling the truth or not.

Keep in mind that after the prosecution has rested its case, the possibility of Libby accepting a negotiated plea offer goes way up IF one is still on the table from Fitz.
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La_Fourmi_Rouge Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
49. kickin' - the board is Hot today!
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
50. So what impact does all this have on Cheney's ticker?
Edited on Tue Feb-06-07 03:03 PM by antigop
How much stress do you think he is under right now?
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
51. Now What's This
"Also the defense is claiming that Russert shouldn't testify tomorrow unless they get further information about what "accommodations" Fitzgerald made to allow Russert testify. The government says the affidavits in question deal with the broader investigation, and are protected under grand jury secrecy rules. (For example, a prosecutor says, the legal effort to force Russert's testimony involved "another reporter related to another part of the investigation." …

First, what is the issue with Russert, second, what broader investigation is being specifically referred to?
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Related to Cooper's contacts with Rove?
Hmmm...
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. I don't think Cheney will be called to testify.
He has most likely told the Libby Team not to call him to do so. He cannot help Libby and would only open himself up for further involvement in the outing of V. Plame and Brewster Jennings. Cheney was obviously the leader of this sabotage upon Joe Wilson but proven that beyond a reasonable doubt, legally, is still open.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Also Team Libbert Wants To Call Russert's Lawyer
What's that about, and can they do that, doesn't privilege come into play?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. It's a non-issue.
They are forced to try to make issues out of things that aren't significant. I can say for sure that they are focusing on non-issues because they don't have a lot to build a strong defense on now.
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La_Fourmi_Rouge Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
53. Fighting for truth, justice and the America way
This should be fun!

Test Your Plame Knowledge

credit above...
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. Great Fun
Thanks
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
57. That is a kinky defense.
A very kinky defense. That Scooter has memory problems, but that it's not admissible unless he takes the stand. Of course in ALL criminal jury instructions(the jury charge which is given to them at the end of the trial, after final arguments, right before they go deliberate), the jury is instructed about the presumption of innocence, and that they are not to consider or to comment upon it, if the defendant does not take the stand. But if Scooter takes the stand and then takes the Fifth, he's screwed.

Juries always do take into consideration the fact that the defendant doesn't testify, even though they are instructed not to do so.

Yes, I am a non-practicing lawyer, and I was a court reporter for almost twenty years, and I've seen a few zillion trials, hearings of every kind, etc. But I'm still confused about this.

To my legal mind, this bad memory defense is just strange. I don't think they could pull it off, and having Cheney testify would be like a cherry on top. :evilgrin:
I just wonder if they could throw Cheney in jail on contempt charges if he refused to testify.
Or is there some executive privilege? Could someone help me out on that.

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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. I envy you your vast experience.
I would make a really lousy lawyer or juror, in light of my own experience with people over the last fifty years.
Specifically, over the years, I have met an individual here and there whose universe just didn't seem to connect with mine.
These people were remarkable in their rarity (I'd approximate at about one in a hundred) and the singularity that shows up is that they do not remember certain situations the same way I do. There may have been only the two of us in a room and I know for a fact that neither of us was drunk or otherwise drugged.

The interesting point is that these remarkable people are totally honest-by all that I can tell-but they consistently don't have the same record as do I and my own recollections always seem to fall in line with most of the others I meet.

With that in mind, there is just no way I could rule out that they honestly remember (or don't) personal history in a totally different universe from the "normal."
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