I think it was brilliant to craft a bipartisan Iraq resolution first.

[bigtree]

It is much better, politically, to rail against the republicans for blocking debate on a bipartisan bill, than it would have been against a strictly Democratic one.

The Democratic leadership must have known there would be this obstruction. I don't think I have to explain that in any more detail. I just think it plays better with the public to be defending a bill with republican as well as Democratic sponsors and supporters.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bigtree

[notadmblnd]

1. do you think the public really pays that much attention?

I think the message they're getting is that Democrats are going to continue doing what they've done the last few years, and that is laying down for the bully repubs. I think Dems need to resort to the same mean tactics (and not be afraid to throw it back in their laps) as they engaged in when they were in power. Otherwise the American people are just not going to be interested.

[bigtree]

2. this is a political process

the crafting of a bipartisan resolution, knowing that ANY resolution would be blocked from debate, was brilliant.

Of course the public is watching. Our leaders haven't folded, but they do have to proceed with politics as more than a passing consideration. It will be public pressure which forces Bush's hand, whether to accept a resolution, or to demand his removal. Just going from the ground all the way up to impeachment without pursuing a resolution would have been far too strident to get the public behind the notion that there is nothing short of removal which will move Bush. It has to be demonstrated from all angles. The bipartisan effort helps draw in folks who don't want to be part of a grudge match between the parties, but want to end the occupation.

[Kagemusha]

3. You mean where the Republicans voted against their own resolution?

That was classic...

[TroglodyteScholar]

7. Don't you understand...

...that the Democratic majority in the Senate isn't LARGE enough to use the same strongarm tactics that the Thugs used when they were the majority? You can't threaten the "nuclear option" when your majority status is razor-thin.

The Dems simply can NOT accomplish anything through bullying. It is quite literally IMPOSSIBLE.

In my opinion, people with such strong opinions about government should go to the minimal effort to understand wtf they're talking about.

[notadmblnd]

10. Why such anger? I asked a question.

I am an American citizen. I see what I see, just like you see what you see. If "I just don't understand", then how many other ignoramuses do you think there must be out there? You could have answered my question with less hostility. There was simply no reason for it.

[TroglodyteScholar]

12. I apologize for the harshness...

...it just gets tiresome to read posts like yours above over and over. The fact remains, though, that the democratic-controlled (misnomer!) Senate does not have ANY options as far as forcing things through. The Dem majority is so very slim that they must use tact rather than bullying. Unfortunately, this means it will be a painfully slow and political process of getting the Republicans on record in support of Bush's latest "plan" for use later on when the "plan" is shown to be a catastrope. Yes, it's upsetting that it will take so much time and so many more lives, but the American people voted in November to give Dems a majority in the Senate, but only a very weak one. This is the way in which a weak majority must conduct business on controversial topics.

Again, I apologize for the anger in my other post. It's an emotional subject.

[notadmblnd]

14. Thank you...

I appreciate that.

[ClassWarrior]

16. That's why WE need to start cranking out the LTTEs with...

...the correct interpretation, i.e. "The Rape-Publican hypocrites voted AGAINST THEIR OWN toothless resolution on Iraq, and meanwhile our troops and Iraqi children continue to DIE in Bush/Cheney**'s occupation."

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

22. Here's how to talk about it... Via email from MoveOn...

Outrage: Republicans Dodge Debate on Iraq

Dear MoveOn member,

It's outrageous. After saying they wanted to join Democrats, Senate Republicans now are filibustering the anti-escalation resolution—dodging the first vote on the war since the election. They know the American people are fed up. And they know the president is wrong. But they still won't take a stand.

We're not going to let them hide. That's why our ad folks are working around the clock today to put together an emergency TV ad that'll show there are serious political consequences when you ignore the voters.

We're aiming to have it on the air tomorrow morning. To do that, we need to raise $200,000 by the end of the day today. Can you chip in $25? To check out the script and contribute, click here:

https://pol.moveon.org/donate/filibusterad.html?id=9843-7624114-WACIT9_7Nu5JRAhDKn0JSg&t=2

As we head into a big fight in the House, we need to come out hard against this wrong-headed move. Republicans are obstructing progress on the most important issue facing this country and by doing so, they're endorsing the president's failed strategy.

To understand just how cynical this is, consider that even after Democrats worked out a compromise with Republican Senator John Warner, he joined the rest of the Republicans in voting to avoid debate on his own resolution.

Our TV ad will feature the senators who said they opposed escalation but voted to dodge the debate. They're willing to send tens of thousands more troops to face danger in Iraq, but they don't have the courage to face a vote.

We're going to make sure they feel the heat from their constituents—that's why it's important we get this emergency ad up right away. But our work together doesn't stop here.

Tomorrow, we'll move our attention to the next fight. We're expecting a lot of action in the House of Representatives over the next month, where we'll work to actually block the escalation.

Right now, we have to send a clear signal to Republicans in Washington and the media: Americans are not going to forget what Senate Republicans did.

Click below to chip in to help us get these ads on the air.

https://pol.moveon.org/donate/filibusterad.html?id=9843-7624114-WACIT9_7Nu5JRAhDKn0JSg&t=3

Thanks for all you do,

–Nita, Jennifer, Wes, Justin and the MoveOn.org Political Action Team

NGU.

[bigtree]

23. nice ad

thanks for posting

[The Stranger]

4. You assume that those who lured the Dems in give a shit about their treachery.

They don't. To the real GOP, Democrats are the enemy. Let those words sink in -- The Enemy.

[bmbmd]

5. Pat Paulsen from the old

"Smothers Brothers" show did his part to end the war by calling Viet Nam "Mr. Johnstons's War". Iraq, without question, belongs not only to Mr. Bush but to the entire Republican party. This filibuster, along party lines, gives then unfettered ownership.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. The "compromise" failed and people are still dying.

If they were going to actually try to end the war they should have tried to cut off funding rather than tiptoeing around the war and treating it as if it were funding a highway in Wyoming.

It's almost laughable that that our "leaders" introduced a "bi-partisan" bill that would have accomplished nothing and were defeated because it was "too radical".

[bigtree]

8. that funding effort is yet to come. it hasn't been abandoned

both leaders in both houses said that they would act against the funding.

The dying is Bush and his republican obstructionist's fault, not Democrats'.

There are binding bills which are ready to go. They will get even less traction than the bipartisan one, so the criticism is off target. Either we want our leaders to use all of the levers of their office or not.

[ClassWarrior]

11. Ahhh, another effort to shift the blood from Bush/Cheney**'s hands...

...to the Dems', huh?

NGU.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. No. The blame is on those who continue the war.

Just because some have a (D) after their names doesn't alleviate them of their responsibility to end the war.

[Beelzebud]

19. Apparently we're to just shut up now, and accept the Dems no matter what.

We served our purpose. We got people elected. We can go fuck off now.

[ClassWarrior]

21. Orwell Lives!!

:rofl:

Nice job of painting those who have put forth a resolution against the occupation and voted in favor of it as wanting to "continue the war." As I said, blame Dems first.

NGU.

[Norquist Nemesis]

9. McConnell told Reid early on that they would block it

Gotta hand to to Harry for keeping his cool; I would have had steam coming out of my ears and obscenities streaming from...

Still waiting for one of the Democrats to point out to the whiny Cons that the Resolutions put forth have NOT been of the same nature that they brought forth in the 109th (particularly in the second session). The consistently put up false choice options in order to try and pin Democrats into impossible votes that had more to do with the upcoming election than anything else.

[bigtree]

13. "You can run, but you can't hide," Reid said. "We are going to debate Iraq."

GOP Stalls Debate On Troop Increase

Reid and McConnell were expected to resume negotiations today after conferring with lawmakers. With the tremendous national interest and media buildup to this week's confrontation, it would be extraordinary if the two sides did not reach an agreement on ground rules. But regardless of the outcome of the talks, Congress is certain to be consumed with Iraq in the months ahead.

A huge budget bill for the remainder of the current fiscal year comes before the Senate tomorrow, and Reid promised war amendments to that debate. Bush has requested $245 billion in funding for the war, to cover this year and next year, and that legislation is certain to become a magnet for Iraq concerns.

Next week, the Democratic-led House is expected to move forward with its version of the nonbinding resolutions stuck in the Senate.

"You can run, but you can't hide," Reid said. "We are going to debate Iraq."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/05/AR2007020500675_pf.html

[Beelzebud]

15. Yes we failed to pass a toothless non-binding resolution. Brilliant!

Imagine how hard a binding resolution will crash and burn. Brilliant!!!

Harry Reid is Brilliant!!!!

The public is notorious for taking the time to understand nuance. They'll see this as a big win for the new Democratic majority!

/me pukes.

[ClassWarrior]

17. No, the Rape-Publicans FAILED to pass THEIR OWN toothless resolution.

Unless, of course, your goal is to blame Dems first.

NGU.

[bigtree]

20. the binding ones 'failed' as well

so far