Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

GARDASIL HPV "Cervical Cancer" Vaccine Saves Merck While Screwing The USA!

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 04:21 AM
Original message
GARDASIL HPV "Cervical Cancer" Vaccine Saves Merck While Screwing The USA!
Edited on Wed Feb-07-07 04:48 AM by mhatrw
Even if you take the two most currently prevalent cervical cancer disease vectors (HPV 16 & 18) out of the human population -- which is the best case scenario for GARDASIL vis a vis cervical cancer -- there is no guarantee that other high risk strains (31, 33, 35, 39, 45, 51, 52, 56, 58, 59, and 68) won't fill the void. Even assuming a causal and not contributing link between high risk HPV strains and cervical cancer (and I'm not disputing that this is a very good guess), cervical cancer is a severe imbalance in a human/virus ecosystem that potentially includes a myriad of currently unknown factors. Most cervical cancer victims have an otherwise compromised immune system as well as a history of many, many sex partners. Even if we confer total protection against HPV 16 and 18 among this high risk population, how can we reliably predict the resulting prevalence and virulence of the other high risk HPV strains 20 to 60 years down the line? And how can we reliably predict how all of this will affect cervical cancer contraction and mortality rates?

Yes, almost 3,700 US women died of cervical cancer last year. But that's less than 2.5 US women out of every 100,000. If current trends continue (you know, if US women don't start to blow off their annual pap smears due to a false sense of security), that mortality rate will be reduced to about 1 in 100,000 (via more and better pap smear screening and more prompt treatment) by the time that GARDASIL could possibly have ANY measurable effect on cervical cancer mortality rates! That's 1 out of 100,000 without GARDASIL. Now consider that it would cost about $50 million (including doctors fees) to vaccinate that population -- ostensibly to protect them against this "killer." Suppose GARDASIL works as intended and reduces that rate by half. That's $100 million per life saved!

Of the 3,700 US cervical cancer deaths last year, less than 50% received "regular pap smears" according to the CDC. And I highly doubt that "regular" means annual. So let's look at the numbers: .5 (the number that got regular pap smears) multiplied by .7 (the cervical cancer cases that could be prevented by GARDASIL in the BEST case scenario) multiplied by 3700 (the number of cervical cancer deaths in the US last year) = 1295. So in the BEST case scenario -- assuming that cervical cancer rates will remain as high as they are today even though they have been steadily decreasing by about 25% per decade for the last three decades without GARDASIL, assuming that 100% of the US population is injected with three shots of GARDASIL and that these vaccinations confer 100% lifetime resistance against HPV 16 & 18, assuming that no other high risk HPV strains become more prevalent or deadly over the next 20 to 60 years, assuming that all the old and sick US women who die of cervical cancer would otherwise live through the year AND assuming that a "regular pap smear" as defined by the CDC means an annual pap smear -- we are talking about 1300 lives a year that could be saved by GARDASIL vs. 1850 lives a year that could be saved by making sure every US woman gets an annual pap smear.

And the cost for all of this GARDASIL "cancer prevention"? Assuming that Merck somehow doesn't get all of its bought and sold politicians and health care "experts" to make this vaccine mandatory for little boys as well as little girls, we are talking about 50 BILLION DOLLARS per every 100 million US females vaccinated. To save (at most, in the best case scenario) a total of 1300 lives a year, many of whom would probably die soon of other causes. Can any of you think of ANY better way $50+ billion could be spent on medical research and/or disease prevention?

To include vaccination RISKS in this analysis, consider that ALL of the studies on GARDASIL completed so far included less than 22,000 woman combined. If just one woman in these studies were to die every five years years because of complications related to the three injection GARDASIL vaccine plus alum adjuvant regimen (a number which is of course currently impossible to know), that would translate to an annual death rate DUE TO THIS VACCINE of nearly 1400 women annually over the entire US female population -- which is more women than this vaccine would save from dying of cervical cancer in the best possible scenario!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. So, women who get cervical cancer are sluts??? I knew it would come down to this.
"Most cervical cancer victims have an otherwise compromised immune system as well as a history of many, many sex partners."

I say, you completely pulled that out of your ass.

And, of the FIVE women I have personally known who have been diagnosed with cervical cancer, neither one of those statements was true.

So, we are back to only whores need this vaccine, and if they get cervical cancer (and don't die), well, the treatment is not so bad (do they deserve it?). And only a few will die.

I've seen this shit peddled all over this forum the last few days and it makes me fucking SICK.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. You are so full of bluster. I never said ANYTHING like that!
Edited on Wed Feb-07-07 05:25 AM by mhatrw
What I said was that "Most cervical cancer victims have an otherwise compromised immune system as well as a history of many, many sex partners."

That is a MEDICAL FACT. Please offer some MEDICAL, STATISTICAL evidence to the contrary. Your anecdotal evidence is noted. But US pap smears 20 or even 10 years ago aren't what they are now, and medical facts are medical facts.

Note that I don't give a damn how many sexual partners anyone has had. The more the merrier as far as I am concerned. The only reason I even mentioned that fact is that people who have a lot of sex partners are apt to be exposed to MANY high risk strains of HPV for which GARDASIL (even in the best case scenario) confers no resistance!

Please read what I wrote carefully. I am not your enemy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. You prove YOUR ridiculous stmt that cancer victims have "many, many sex partners"!
That is a "medical fact"????????

Bullshit. That's your fucking opinion.

And how do you know they have "compromised immune systems", and would probably die anyway?

You have gone to a lot of trouble to slander cancer victims and I think THAT IS DEPLORABLE.

You should be ashamed. :grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I'm presenting a cost + risk vs. benefit analysis of GARDASIL.
Edited on Wed Feb-07-07 05:32 AM by mhatrw
My point is not to disparage cervical cancer victims but to denote risks that GARDASIL does not attenuate. I'm sorry that you can't comprehend why I "profiled" the typical cervical cancer victim, but it was certainly not to condemn them or suggest that every victim fits this profile.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Oh, so now it's only the dead sluts who count? Stop digging.
Edited on Wed Feb-07-07 05:31 AM by Justitia
Like I said, I personally know FIVE cervical cancer victims - who all had radical surgery - and none of your stupid conclusions apply.

But who even needs ancedotal evidence when your crap is ridiculous on it's face.

:grr:

Nice how you edited your post to remove the request for the obituaries of dead cancer patients.

:puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Your trap is noted and not appreciated.
Edited on Wed Feb-07-07 05:37 AM by mhatrw
Just like your complete lack of evidence.

You are extemely big on outrage, but short on comprehension, context and evidence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Trap? This is YOUR bullshit that you are spreading all over DU. Back it up or risk being called on
it.

These are YOUR crazy ass assertions to prove, and you are failing miserably no matter how many times you post this ridiculous shit on here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Do you work for MERCK or do you just not understand the OP?
Please PM me if you don't understand what I'm trying to say. Otherwise, I will have to assume that you are acting in bad faith. I'm trying to SAVE women's lives here. If you don't get it, please become a bit more informed on this topic. I'd be happy to help.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Is that all you've got? No, I don't work for MERCK, what a stupid retort.
It seems like I know a helluva lot more than you about cervical cancer, 'tho.

You spew all kinds of imaginary factoids about cervical cancer victims in some effort to convince somebody that this vaccine is bad, bad, bad.

How low will you stoop to press this anti-vaccine paranoia?

Or do you work for Glaxo Smith Kline :crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. some of the thinking re: vaccinations and gardisil
are beyond bizarre and i'm not sure what to make of them.

the ''multiple sex partners and compromised'' immune systems phrasing is very, very telling.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yes, that discounts all the evidence in the OP!
Edited on Wed Feb-07-07 06:01 AM by mhatrw
Sorry, but you will have to do better. I will just repost this information in another form if you and Justitia succeed in "PC" nitpicking it to death here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Put up or shut up.
Edited on Wed Feb-07-07 06:07 AM by mhatrw
You've brought nothing to the table but false outrage and feigned superiority. If you dispute any of the facts presented in the OP, kindly present your evidence.

BTW, :wtf: does Glaxo Smith Kline have to do with this issue? Please explain.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. That's not how it works. It is incumbent on YOU to prove your assertions.
Which you haven't. You've only cast aspersions on women unfortunate enough to be victims of cervical cancer.

And of course, you can't prove any of your assertions because they are nothing more than your opinions.

And I'm just sick of such crap being spread over and over and over again on this forum.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. LOL! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. excuse me but yes, it is indeed a medical FACT....
Edited on Wed Feb-07-07 06:04 AM by leftchick
why don't you read the whole article for the FACTS before attacking the OP further. I believe the OP did a great service pointing out the FACTS about Gardasil and the profits Merck hopes to make.....

<snip>

High Sexual Activity. In adults the most important risk factor for HPV is sexual activity with an infected person. Women most at risk for cervical cancer are those with a history of multiple sexual partners, sexual intercourse at an early age (17 years or younger), or both. A woman who has never been sexually active has a very low risk for developing cervical cancer. Sexual activity with multiple partners increases the likelihood of many infections in addition to HPV.

http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_risk_factors_cervical_cancer_000046_4.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Wrong. There are risk factors, but that is NOT what the OP said.
The OP said that cervical cancer victims have had "many, many sex partners" and would probably die soon from something else anyway.

And sorry, that is NOT A MEDICAL FACT.

But nice that you are so concerned about Merck's bottom line. Over you know, cancer victims.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. No, I didn't. You are clearly libeling me.
Read what I said again: "Most cervical cancer (mortality) victims have an otherwise compromised immune system as well as a history of many, many sex partners."

Offer some statistical evidence to the contrary or go away. If you can, I'd be happy to retract the statement. It hardly even impinges on anything else I said. You are picking PC nits without a shred of backing. You are obviously trying to nitpick this entire thread to death. Why?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. And it is STILL your opinion. I get it. -eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. OK. So I admit I'm wrong on this. Now what?
How does that change ANYTHING else in the OP?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Nothing changes because your entire original post is nothing but conjecture.
And you stooped to slandering cervical cancer victims as justification for dismissing this out of hand.

I just keep wondering why you are so insistent and would go to such lengths.
You've plastered this stuff IN ALL CAPS, ALL DAY, all over DU.

I can't just stand by and let this flotsam sail by unchecked by demands for accuracy.
Too many people read this board to let crap like that go unquestioned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. LOL!
Edited on Wed Feb-07-07 06:31 AM by mhatrw
You have brought NOTHING to this discussion except PC nitpicking and false outrage. NOTHING!

If you can dispute anything in the OP other than the one sentence you have pretended to be so outraged by, do so! If not, go away!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Willfully obtuse. And trust me, I'm genuinely outraged by this nonsense.
Nothing false about it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. You are hilariously transparent!
Try again!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I'm glad you find this so fucking funny & all, but it's going nowhere.
Go sell crazy someplace else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. OK. I did.
Try again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. I take it you did not read the article
the most valid point made by the OP (perhaps clumsily) is the fact that putting the money into Pap Smears for women who would not normally get them would achieve the goal of less Cervical cancer patients. I have been getting pap smears since I was 14 years old, I am at higher risk because of exposure to DES in the womb.


<snip>

Socioeconomic and Ethnic Factor

Although the incidence has declined in the U.S. over the past decades, cervical cancer is much more prevalent in African-American and Hispanic women than in Caucasians. African-American women's mortality rates are twice as high as those of Caucasian women. This difference may be due to social and economic differences; a 2001 study of women in the military found no differences in mortality rates between these ethnic groups when there is equal access to the same treatments.

....I suppose because I post this I am a racist? I do not understand the hysteria here. :shrug:




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. It's only "clumsy" because somebody is picking "PC" nits.
Edited on Wed Feb-07-07 06:27 AM by mhatrw
If I removed the entire single disputed sentence from the argument (which I guess I'll have to next time, even though it is 100% factually valid as far as I know), the rest still stands.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
17. Interesting. So when will we read this in a medical journal?
Anytime soon?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Good question. I just presented these facts to an OB-GYN today.
She argued with me for awhile and then finally said, "Well, it can help a lot of third world nations."

I agreed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #19
30. your expertise is?
Your assertions have been cross verified by who?

i don't know you presented this to your ob-gyn other than you say so.

i don't know if your facts are correct other than you say so.

and you're damn right right i'm going to pc this -- because you apparently WANT women to die -- only the women you pick out to die.

gardasil will prevent deaths -- because since adam and eve humans have been fucking like bunny rabbits -- and they fuck frequently and often have multiple sex partners.

you're pedaling a fucking fairy tale here as truth -- it's fuckin nuts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
31. Which medical school do you teach at?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC