Another copter down. It potentially holds 19, but they are "declining to comment"

[Bluebear]

I don't know what to say anymore.

====



BAGHDAD, Iraq - A Sea Knight helicopter went down northwest of Baghdad on Wednesday, the military said, the fifth helicopter lost in Iraq in just over two weeks.

The CH-46 helicopter went down about 20 miles northwest of the capital, U.S. military spokesman Maj. Gen. William Caldwell said, but he declined to comment on casualties.

"A quick reaction force is on site and the investigation is going on as we speak," he said in Baghdad, without giving a cause for the crash. "It would probably be inappropriate for me to talk about whether or not there are or are not casualties."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070207/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

[Little Wing]

1. Aww come on, it's only a 47 year old design (1960)

[deutsey]

2. I don't know what to say anymore, either.

Silence may not be an option, but speaking out doesn't seem to do any good these days either.

[leftofthedial]

14. our country has been taken away from us

just like Ike warned

[adigal]

25. It will be good for our corporations

since they have to replace the helicopters that have been downed. See?? GW and Cheney-Satan and their buddies are all happy.

[kenny blankenship]

43. Yep, this trend will probably result in a program to replace all CH-46 and -47s

Not with copies but a new & improved design. So call your broker.

[catmandu57]

18. I don't either

words have failed, actions have failed, i've been beating my head against the wall for the last four years now, I think all the words have ran out of my bloody skull. RIP.

[Breeze54]

3. They never comment right away.

This sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :grr:

[RB TexLa]

7. Thank God, I'd hate to find out a family member died from a press conference

[Missy M]

11. Not easy anyway the family finds out.....

from family experience in a past war it was a telegram saying "Missing in Action", then later a knock on the door to give the horrible news.

[RB TexLa]

12. Of course there isn't. But I'd much rather wait untill everyone was called and told

instead of people finding out by people who saw it on the news calling them.

[alcibiades_mystery]

34. That's neither here nor there

You can announce the number of casualties as soon as you know. That's not specific information.

[Breeze54]

13. I would've been pissed off

if I had received word, if that had happened to my son, via the news instead of a human being!

Thank gawd that I never had to deal with that horrible scenario.

[Missy M]

17. I would not expect them to announce the names of the dead...

on the news, or release the names to the news, until after the family has been notified. That is different than saying whether there are casualties or not, specially if there are survivor's.

[Breeze54]

20. It's a war zone!!

Perhaps they're dodging bullets while trying to reach the crash site?? :shrug:

Ya think?? They can't announce anything until they have the info.
The guy making the announcements isn't out there!
He's getting feedback from the soldiers doing the rescue/recovery.

[Missy M]

21. They said they were already at the crash site so obviously....

they aren't dodging bullets trying to reach the site. I would think the first thing you know is if there are survivors or not. That I'm sure is the first info the spokesman got.

[Breeze54]

22. Fatalities confirmed by The Department of Defense.

http://icasualties.org/oif/BY_DOD.aspx

All fatalities with active DOD links have been confirmed by The Department of Defense.
Total: 3104

Confirmed: 3097

If the DOD link is not active the fatality has not been confirmed.

Pending: 7

02/06/07 - NAME NOT RELEASED YET - Pending
02/06/07 - NAME NOT RELEASED YET - Pending
02/05/07 - NAME NOT RELEASED YET - Pending
02/04/07 - NAME NOT RELEASED YET - Pending
02/02/07 - NAME NOT RELEASED YET - Pending
02/02/07 - DeFrenn, Jason Garth - Pending
01/31/07 - NAME NOT RELEASED YET - Pending

------------------------------------------------------

Nothing is confirmed right away by the DOD....as you can see from the dates above.
If they can't reach the families, then they wait.

[Missy M]

24. Again, I am not talking about releasing names......

already the insurgents are saying they shot the helicopter down and all are dead. I would expect by the end of today we will know if they all died or there were survivors. That's all I'm saying. Why not give out the info rather than saying they don't know and creating speculation.

[Breeze54]

26. You're

just not getting it and I give up.

BTW? It's NOT the end of the day.

THEY WILL NOT RELEASE ANY INFO UNTIL THEY HAVE ALL THE FACTS!!!!!!!!

You actually think they're going to go by what the "insurgents" are saying??? :wtf:

[Missy M]

30. Well, I think you're not getting it.......

and I have given up with you. It's like banging my head against the wall. I said why not tell what you already know because you are at the site and the insurgents are already claiming that all are dead. Either confirm it or tell if there are survivors. It's very simple and it has nothing to do with releasing names, which was your original argument.

[Breeze54]

32. No!

They will NOT release ANY INFO until they have ALL THE FACTS!!!

IT'S A WAR ZONE!!! There are lives at stake!!

There's a lot more to it besides releasing names!

It's a WAR ZONE!!! Cripes!

[Breeze54]

42. Took an hour and twenty minutes....

That wasn't fast enough for you? :shrug:

Talk about impatience! :crazy:

[Missy M]

44. I don't know why you are so hostile and angry with me.....

but I declare Peace with you!!!

[Breeze54]

45. More like 'was aggravated'

but don't really care. The info is out now.

[alcibiades_mystery]

38. You're the one who is not getting it

The information relating to numbers is fairly easy to determine. That's not specific information.

Get real.

[Breeze54]

39. Apparently

there is more going on there, at the crash site, than is being released, imho.
Funny that you know more than the people actually there. Give me a break!

And how and what will you do having this "timely" info?

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. LOL

No, YOU know more...:eyes: Puh-leez.

In fact, they are already releasing the numbers, so there you go, Clausewitz.

I won't do anything with the information. What's your stake?

:rofl:

[Bandit]

33. Not necessarily

If the bodies are gone you have no idea if they have been captured or are trying E&E or ???? The only way one knows for sure about casualties is by counting bodies whether alive or dead..

[Missy M]

4. How the hell long does it take to investigate casualties.....

I think they know instantly whether someone is dead or alive. With that kind of rhetoric it doesn't sound good. How sad all of this is.

[Recursion]

27. You'd be surprised

Even if you're pretty sure everybody's dead you need to identify some remains. Do you know they weren't captured alive after the crash? Or maybe they were faking their flight logs to get flight pay and weren't actually on the helicopter. Or they were trying to fake their own death. Or whatever.

Also, when you don't control the streets between you and the crash site it's not at all trivial to figure out how many dead vs. living people there are there.

[northernsoul]

35. thanks for the insight

These copter downings are hard to understand on a number of levels.

[saltpoint]

5. Not so long back, when his poll numbers were higher, Dubya

taunted the insurgents with "Bring it on."

This is the it that's being brung, and human beings are dying in increasing numbers.

George W. Bush is a failure. His presidency is over and his war is lost.

Let's hold the Iowa caucus tomorrow. Those first few votes for the next president will be a much-needed lift.

[Olney Blue]

9. Failure, indeed. Catastrophic failure.

[Rosemary2205]

6. Someone posted a BBC piece last week about this problem

appearantly the British have proof the Iraqi military is shooting down our choppers - appearantly with our own weapons.

I'm too lazy to do the general discussion search.

[Bluebear]

8. "Bring 'em on!" he cried. nt

[Breeze54]

10. Confirmed!

5th U.S. helicopter crashes in Iraq in two weeks
Chopper downed as long-awaited Baghdad security operation begins

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17021136/

MSNBC staff and news service reports
Updated: 13 minutes ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq -

A Sea Knight helicopter went down northwest of Baghdad on Wednesday, the military said,
the fifth helicopter lost in Iraq in just over two weeks.

The CH-46 helicopter went down about 20 miles northwest of the capital, U.S. military
spokesman Maj. Gen. William Caldwell said, but he declined to comment on casualties.

“A quick reaction force is on site and the investigation is going on as we speak,” he said in Baghdad,
without giving a cause for the crash.

“It would probably be inappropriate for me to talk about whether or not there are or are not casualties.”

Meantime, the Al-Mojahedeen Army, an insurgent group in Iraq, said it shot down a U.S. helicopter
in al-Garma City in northern Iraq, using RPG missiles.

The insurgent video showed debris of a helicopter on the ground and claimed that all people aboard were killed.

It was not immediately clear if the footage was of the Sea Knight helicopter that went down Wednesday.

More at link....

NBC VIDEO

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

15. was it a "non-binding" shoot down?

[spoony]

31. Brilliant, scathing comment

I wish all of DC could see it!

[Olney Blue]

16. Congress: STOP this FU*KING WAR NOW

[babylonsister]

19. When one of the recent ones went down, killing 12, 34 kids lost a parent.

How many little lives will this affect?:cry:

[originalpckelly]

23. This is a Marine helicopter, the Navy recently retired theirs in 2004...

they were originally introduced around 1964.

[CarolNYC]

28. Geez...

I know someone who's son is flying a chopper over there. Every time I hear one of these stories, my heart's in my throat. It's happening all too often lately. :(

[Kingshakabobo]

29. Wow. This is getting worse by the minute.

If they have obtained effective anti-aircraft missiles our kids are screwed. Not that it isn't already like the Soviets in Afghanistan but this will complete the picture.

[malta blue]

36. AP saying 7 on board were killed. nt

[Breeze54]

40. Thanks for the update.

U.S.: All 7 aboard believed killed in copter crash
Official says chopper not hit by hostile fire, but Iraqi insurgents claim attack

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17021136/

BREAKING NEWS
Updated: 10 minutes ago

CAIRO, Egypt -

The U.S. military believes all seven people aboard a CH-46 Sea Knight helicopter that crashed in Iraq Wednesday were killed, and indications are that it was not hit by hostile fire, a senior U.S. defense official said.

In a conflicting report, an Iraqi air force officer said earlier that the helicopter was downed by an anti-aircraft missile.

Meantime, al-Qaida-linked Sunni insurgents claimed responsibility for the alleged attack.

[The_Casual_Observer]

37. It's probably going to be really bad.

That is a big copter.