Pentagon FINALLY reporting what DUers have dissed me on for YEARS

[Atman]

CNN is now reporting that the Pentagon is INTENTIONALLY MISREPORTING CASUALTIES IN IRAQ. Ie; not reporting casualties of those who die AFTER being airlifted out, etc. I've posted this a dozen times since the "war" began, and have been subjected to that curious brand of DUer-on-DUer vitriol for it every time. Now it seems they're actually admitting it (or about to be forced to admit it).

EVERY lie they've told us has been revealed a long time ago on DU. I'm an so sick of anyone believing anything his lying sack of shit administration says. Especially those among us who use "why would they lie about that?" as their reason for trusting these fuckers.

.

[soothsayer]

1. I've always suspected this is why they quickly airlift them to Germany

---ok, partially to treat them, but partially to hide the figures. It's the old trick of dragging the body off the post office property before calling the police---much less paperwork to fill out if the person doesn't drop dead on postal property.

[BuyingThyme]

2. That's standard. Why would DUers diss it?

[shadowknows69]

4. I've seen it

I've suggested this before myself due to some of the numbers I hear from the troops I talk to, but whenever its brought up there's someone with a quick link to icasualties.org and a lot of huffing and puffing about there's no way they'd be able to hide KIA's

[BuyingThyme]

9. I think it's more a matter of misidentifying them than hiding them.

[valerief]

19. Yeah, right. Give them the benefit of the doubt. NOT! nt

[BuyingThyme]

23. I'm not saying they're doing it accidentally or inadvertently,

but as a strategy (to lie).

[valerief]

25. Oh, I misunderstood you. I guess I'm just tired of the "incompetency" overkill

we get from pundits for every deliberately evil thing these monsters do. Thanks for clarifying.

[BuyingThyme]

28. No, not incompetent by their standards.

[pecwae]

54. When I first came here

I was subjected to ridicule for suggesting the same. One poster was particularly nasty.

[tom_paine]

47. Who can guess why people do what they do? But I have seen it happen, too.

I, like Atman, have been steadfastly saying this for years. And yes, it was obvious.

Like this:

Bush is very similar to Hitler, Stalin, Marcos, and every other tyrannical scum that ever stole a nation.

Hitler, Stalin, Marcos, and every other tyrannical scum that ever stole a nation lies about casualties and death totals. EVERY ONE.

Therefore, Bush is lying about casualties.

It really is that simple when someone, such as Little Boots Bushler, shows themselves to be a totalitarian tyrants that loathes American democracy. The behavior of totalitarians is eminently predictable.

I got news for you, as well. they lied, and lied badly, about the number of Katrina dead, which from the fragmented and Free World sources I have read, indicated were probably between 5,000-8,000.

Make book on it, though I suspect that one day Bushmerika will finish fully Sovietizing and the truth will NEVER come out, even years later.

[cassiepriam]

63. Because for a long time here, NOTHING negative could be said about US troops.

DUers went ballistic. Even after the troops started raping and killing
children.

Times have changed, now reality is more acceptable here on DU.
At least about the troops.

[NMDemDist2]

3. so it's higher than 3100?

did they give 'revised' numbers?

[jsamuel]

6. I think this applies to "casualties" not deaths.

[NMDemDist2]

8. the OP specifically mentioned deaths in Germany n/t

[Atman]

15. I was the "OP" and I didn't specifially mention deaths in Germany

Unless you meant "OTHER Poster" instead of "ORIGINAL Poster." Which still doesn't work, because the person you replied to didn't mention Germany either.

:shrug:

.

[nashville_brook]

37. died after being airlifted out -- poster assumes they are taken to the base in Germany

which seems to be mentioned every time wounded soldiers "airlifted out" is discussed. my brain filled-in the blank with Germany too.

[NMDemDist2]

52. you didn't mention Germany it's true, but where else do we airlift casualties?

Ie; not reporting casualties of those who die AFTER being airlifted out, etc

and Germany is a red herring anyway, I asked if the total death rate was higher than the reported 3100+ dead military, no matter where or if they get 'airlifted'

[FogerRox]

56. NO, the Pentagon has been quite clear for years

If you get shot in Iraq, get air lifter to GErmany, then die, you did not die in theater, so you dont count.

THe OP is spot on.... the DOD has intentially managed the numbers, from the git go.

[tom_paine]

49. Unquestrionably. And this is the first the MSM has even mentioned it.

If you haven't noticed, Busheviks, even when CAUGHT REDHANDED in one of their many, many criminal lies, simply tell six more lies and keep moving forward, undisturbed.

It is as likely that the Busheviks will EVER admit the true number of combat deaths (probably ALSO 5,000-8,000, which is a creepy coincidence and nothing more...but still creepy) as it will that the burnt corpse of Hitler will rise from the grave and admit Nazi culpability in starting THEIR "Iraq Invasion".

[nebenaube]

5. You want to see the american cost of the war?

Drive by the airport in Rochestor Mn and watch the casualty flights come in... Last memorial day they landed every eight minutes. My guess is they are casualties that Walter Reed can't handle.

[northernsoul]

30. Mayo Clinic?

I had no idea that Mayo was taking war casualties. Sheesh, right under our noses.

[TomInTib]

7. I, too, have been ridiculed on this topic.

I know all too well, unfortunately, how the Pentagon skews casualty rates.
And this bunch of bastards is the worst, ever.

I have been called 'clueless', 'ignorant', and much worse for bringing up what I know is a grossly undercounted casualty factor.

[pecwae]

55. It stunned me

to see how readily some accepted Pentagon reporting as truth. At one time it was my job to present false information, cover up the facts, and deny the truth for the Army. I know how they work from the inside and there are things I regret having done.

[Double T]

10. I've ALWAYS thought the number of soldier/troops killed..........

was intentionally lowered by bushco pentagon operatives; NOTHING is REAL, NOTHING is TRUE.

[valerief]

16. Well said. nt

[Lugnut]

11. I have one rule of thumb

When figures or statements come from any agency connected to and overseen by this administration I assume it's a lie.

[autorank]

12. I'm glad you hung in there. I was not aware that you were attacked for this.

I think it's an outrage but there's way to much of that going on.

Thank you for hanging in there despite the abuse. I'm sure there were a lot of cheap shots.

K&R!!!

PS. I just assumed that they were doing this all along. When the * people are accused, you need
to give the accuser the benefit of the doubt. After all, they lied us into this war with great
intensity and skill.

[Felinity]

18. Vietnam, anyone?

Of course they lie. They always lie.

[hobbit709]

13. Everything else this regime

has said is a lie, why should the casualty figures be any different?

[valerief]

14. I wonder if they were trolls dissing you. I've always been angry about

the falsification of the true number of Bush war-related deaths, too.

[lies and propaganda]

17. well, ive always agreed with that. But to be fair

cnn is reporting that they are misrepresenting the wounded, not dead. I think the dead are thousands upon thousands more then they say. But the CNN report was the # of wounded they admit is 23000, whereas they are saying its 53000.

spelling edit

[RevolutionStartsNow]

34. numbers, numbers

Those numbers for wounded are OUTRAGEOUS. Either one: 23000 or 53000. It's so fucked up.

Many more of those would have been dead in earlier wars, but protection is better and these guys are just losing limbs, eyesight, etc.

The real tragedy of this war (on top of the dead) is the massive number of injured and traumatized soldiers.

[Homer Wells]

51. I'm not sure about this,

but I do not believe I have EVER seen any reportage about the number of casualties at that weapons dump a few months ago.

Rumor had it that 200 to 300 Americans died in that attack where so much ammunition and such was destroyed, but the whole thing was strongly down played buy the MSM.


Was there Ever any confirmation regarding this?


:eyes:

[Contrary1]

20. Have you got a link?

I want to share this one with the Wrong-Wing idiots
that populate another board I frequent.
Thanks! :toast:

[valerief]

21. Anyone still wondering how many died from Katrina? How many bodies did

Kenyon shovel away that weren't reported?

[Atman]

24. Bing-freakin'-O

They also stopped "officially" tallying the Katrina dead just weeks after the storm, even thought they're STILL finding bodies.

BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT. That's all this admin is based upon, a foundation of LYING.

.

[earth mom]

22. You're not alone on this one-I've long suspected the same thing.

It's bizarre isn't it, that we're told to trust an administration that has LIED their asses off about everything-including their "official" story about 9/11. C'mon now. Anyone with even a bit of common sense can see the huge holes in that story too! :tinfoilhat:

[aquart]

26. Oh, no. I completely trusted the Pentagon to lie.

[Ezlivin]

27. When you fight a war with PR, appearances count

Two of the lessons the Neocons took away from Vietnam were 1) limit media access, and 2) limit casualties.

The first has been amazingly easy to do.

The second has been surprisingly easy too, but at a steep cost. The Pentagon and the DoD have put into place a remarkable MASH that is light-years beyond what we did in Vietnam. They have spent incredible sums to do this. They tell us that this is because they "support the troops", but in reality it is an expensive gambit to make sure that severely injured soldiers can make it off the field of battle alive. If they can do that, then the Pentagon can avoid labeling them as casualties. Extraordinary measures are being undertaken to keep a soldier alive as long as possible, costs be damned.

The one thing we've learned from this administration is that they have no problem throwing vast sums of money at problems they encounter as long as it benefits them.

What would LBJ or Nixon have done if they knew they could keep the casualty count down just by expending $50 million dollars? A $50 million investment there could have kept untold amounts of money flowing to defense contractors and kept the war going longer.

Another way to artificially suppress the casualty count is to use mercenaries. Then you have no need to account for their lives.

[Atman]

36. That's a HUGH point!

We're using tens of thousands of "private contractors" and mercenaries to do jobs normally done by the military, and you're right...they don't have to be accounted for.

.

[The_Casual_Observer]

29. Whenever this was brought up in the past it was denied by everybody.

It's one of those thing that you just knew they must be doing, knowing the way bush lies about everything else.

[Little Wing]

31. I believed you

:hi:

[Olney Blue]

45. Great cartoon!

:rofl:

[gratuitous]

32. You know why you're dissed?

Because you're questioning the great secular religion of the United States, redemptive violence. It doesn't brook much discussion, and certainly no dissent. I'm reminded of this over and over, as I recognize that the three smallest denominations in Christianity are the historic peace churches: the Quakers, Mennonites and Church of the Brethren. Odd, no, for a religion that's supposed to be following the Prince of Peace?

[lonestarnot]

33. Glad to give you 5 here!

[The Wizard]

35. So when do we start the

official limb count? brain damage count? The numbers will cast a longer shadow over an already dark episode in American history

[applegrove]

38. Good catch! n/t

[rinsd]

39. I found something saying injuries are deflated but has nothing on deaths.

http://www.presstelegram.com/ci_5175554

Veterans groups and Sen. Barack Obama say government officials are obscuring the actual number of wounded in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars by leaving out of some public documents troops who suffer non-combat injuries.

From the Pentagon Web site to press materials handed out at the opening of an amputee center in Texas last week, the number of wounded in the wars often circulated publicly is around 23,000.

That number only accounts for those wounded in combat. When troops from those wars who were wounded in other ways are counted, the number more than doubles, to about 53,000.

[jelly]

44. Yeah, I just posted the same thing.

Except your post is way better: complete with a link! :)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

40. I haven't believed anything the Pentagon says for, oh, about 35 years

I don't know why anyone does, unless they maintain the idiotic notion that the military establishment is made up of unselfish patriots.

[cui bono]

41. I'm very surprised people would question that.

And not question what comes out of the mouths of BushCo.

Additionally, casualties are supposed to include those wounded, not just deaths.

[jelly]

42. Yeah, apparently the number of injured are also skewed.

They do not count victims of friendly fire.

[EFerrari]

43. I never believed that lying sack of sh!t over you, Atman.

:hi:

[Miss Chybil]

46. "Why would they lie about that?"

Because they're pathological, self-centered, self-righteous, self-appointed "saviours of the world." They don't trust the American people and they don't know how to tell the truth. If their lips are moving, they are lying.

[Balbus]

48. Uh, wrong.

Jeez - What they reported was that the number of WOUNDED counted by the pentagon are only the wounded that were killed by acts of warfare - not wounded by other means. Approximately 23,000 wounded during fighting, a total of 52,000 wounded if you count fighting and non-fighting means. None of this bullshit stuff where people dying after being airlifted....blah....blah....dying in Germany....blah...blah.

edited to add my gif for all idiotic posts:

[BuyingThyme]

50. Boy, they must be lining up to get into combat,

thus out of danger.

[SmokingJacket]

53. Linky? Because every time I've heard of someone dying later...

they're on icasualites.org. I spent a lot of time researching this a year or two ago, and couldn't find a single dead soldier (who I knew had died via local obits) who was not reported.

I think the administration STINKS, of course, but I couldn't find any evidence that they were lying about this particular topic. Which is hard to do -- if MY cousin had been injured and died later and was not counted among official numbers I'd raise a big fuss. I can't imagine that military families would put up with this for a minute.

So... have the revealed the REAL numbers?

[demrabble]

57. Fucking Liars!

It's just like it was during Viet Nam -- misreport the number of American deaths, and over-report the number of "enemy" dead.

I hate those fucking liars.

[Roland99]

58. Did CNN mention "deaths" or "casualties"? HUGE difference.

And there is ZERO proof that deaths are underreported. That's just pure hogwash.

[DuaneBidoux]

59. I'm sorry if you were disrespected. Do you happen to have a link?

[Roland99]

60. This is what CNN was probably talking about. This was reported the other day >>>>>>>>>>>

Some Pentagon reports on injured troops exclude those hurt outside of battle
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20070207-0011-wars-wounded.html

Veterans groups and Sen. Barack Obama say government officials are obscuring the actual number of wounded in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars by leaving out of some public documents troops who suffer non-combat injuries.

From the Pentagon Web site to press materials handed out at the opening of an amputee center in Texas last week, the number of wounded in the wars often circulated publicly is around 23,000.

That number only accounts for those wounded in combat. When troops from those wars who were wounded in other ways are counted, the number more than doubles, to about 53,000.

That latter number is not heavily circulated by the Pentagon. Recently, a Defense Department official publicly criticized a researcher who used it and pressured another government agency to change a public document to report the smaller number.

NOTHING about hiding deaths.

Think about it, wouldn't someone have noticed their family member's/friend's name NOT listed in the fatalities lists after 4 years?!

[jazzjunkysue]

61. On DU, if you're right, you either get flamed or ignored completely.

I always said that Bushco wants nothing but eternal destablization of the oil fields in the middle east. That's starting to become accepted premise, but I have also been run out of town for that one.

If you want alot of responses, go for the trash talk about whether or not the black stripper in the Duke lacrosse case was an innocent victom or a working woman.

So, I figure, this is the place to get it off your chest, regardless of what anyone else says. Have your say. But there will always be someone on here who needs someone to attack.

[cassiepriam]

62. I got royally flamed for saying the same thing.

The American and Iraqi death counts are being under reported.
The injury counts are under reported.
The fragging and desertion rates are under reported.
And the extent of drug and alcohol use among US troops is under reported.
And the prevalence of out of control troops is not being reported.
I have been saying this for some time now.

I also got hit when I said that Fitz was doing a lot of behind the scene damage to the WH.
Which is now becoming apparent.