Cyd Zeigler Jr. of Outsports.com (gay sports website) on the Snickers ad

[LoZoccolo]

This ad is not remotely gay-bashing. The point of the reaction of the men was so ridiculous that it made the reaction of straight men to homosexual contact the butt of the joke, not the kiss itself.

http://outsports.com/entertainment/2007/0205snickers.htm

And yes, he saw the Snickers web site.

[LoZoccolo]

1. More (I forgot to read much of the article the first time).

Well, I had about 30 "GLBT Americans" at my party, and they enjoyed the ad.

The Snickers Web site features some of the Super Bowl participants reacting to the commercial. Aravosis focuses on the facial reactions of Chicago Bear Muhsin Muhammad and Indianapolis Colt Cato June, who look less-than-comfortable with the kiss. Aravosis seems to be saying that not only are people not allowed to be uncomfortable watching something, but certainly no one can show that discomfort.

http://outsports.com/entertainment/2007/0205snickers.htm

[rpannier]

2. I saw the commercial by link

I found it fairly amusing.

The automechanics didn't kiss then say, "OMG!!! Let's go out and beat up gay guys so people think we're straight."

The auto mechanics started doing stupid things to themselves (drink motor oil, hit each other etc) in an attempt to re-inforce their heterosexuality, ala al bundy, tim taylor, homer simpson, etc

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Neshanic]

4. How odd. His sites discussion board is heavily offended by it.

Was his party attended by Andrew Sullivan clones?

[LoZoccolo]

7. The reaction there seems more positive than written reactions here.

As we know, there's almost a two-to-one ratio of people here who weren't offended by it, despite the lack of written opinions by those people.

[TankLV]

9. Yes - utterly cluelss idiots...

[Neshanic]

10. It still is not positive overall, as some posts call him out. Pardon the pun.

Remember it is a sports site, a gay one, but I would venture a guess Cyd's tepid response to the item has more depth than we are led to believe.

[LoZoccolo]

11. True, but no one at his party was offended either.

As a matter of fact, if you do a search on General Discussion for February 4th, the day of the Super Bowl, there are zero threads which mention "Snickers". If this was such an outrage, how come nobody brought it up after it aired?

On February 5th, when Americablog called attention to it, there were 23 threads in General Discussion.

It doesn't seem like people had the interpretation they now claim to have when the ad first aired.

[Neshanic]

12. First rule of gay party at bosses house, never disagree. Better now?

[dsc]

45. I will answer that one for me

I don't watch the Super Bowl (I get up at 4am and thus go to bed early). I hadn't seen any ads whatsoever. I then saw posts here linking to Americablog and watched all four versions. I should also point out that several people mentioned that the ad which ran in the Super Bowl was border line but that the last two versions on the website combined with the players reactions were what put it over the line.

[Change has come]

87. This subject is really important to you.

:hi: Almost like you're outraged or something. :shrug:

[Maven]

19. OP of course will leave that out

to suit his (at this point, deranged) agenda.

[terrya]

5. That just proves that some gay men are clueless idiots.

Hell, even I, as a gay man, knew that.

And your point is?

[blonndee]

6. That we're wrong, of course.

And someone has such an "issue" that he has to play this silly, hateful little game.

[TankLV]

8. Yes - clueless idiots - some gay men are...

[LoZoccolo]

13. Kick.

:kick:

[mondo joe]

14. It may amaze some, but not all gay people agree on everything, just like

all straights don't.

[LoZoccolo]

21. That is actually my point in posting this.

Thank you for your civil and thoughtful observation.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. And yet, interestingly, the site and the ad are gone.

I think I'm going to go with the majority on this one and not have my opinion swayed by one person and a couple of rantings and spammings on DU.

[cboy4]

17. Do you stay up all night like a vampire, googling "Snickers" to find

more "material?"

Have you heard of Log Cabin Republicans?

These are gay idiots, who continue to support the Bush Administration, despite the GOP's despicable record on gay civil rights.

So, yea, there are gay morans who probably thought the ad was terrific.

And they were also probably discussing which Republican they'll be backing in '08 during their little Super Bowl parties.

What's you next point exactly?

[LoZoccolo]

20. My mom told me she had read about this particular commentator...

...when I mentioned the story to her.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

23. Your mom reads Outsports? Sure.

[LoZoccolo]

24. This was the link that she emailed to me.

http://www.eonline.com/news/article/index.jsp?uuid=77d738b8-f6c1-4ca5-816d-f189dbf2b06b

[Bluebear]

67. Mom is concerned and troubled too.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. and why is this one gay persons opinion worth more than mine?

does bush speak for all straight people?

does colin powell speak for all blacks?

[NashVegas]

31. Certainly Not For Everyone, But for Me,

This commentator sees thoughtful things in the ad that its censors don't seem to care about.

"Aravosis seems to be saying that not only are people not allowed to be uncomfortable watching something, but certainly no one can show that discomfort."

[Maven]

33. Some people are racists too.

They're certainly "allowed" to be uncomfortable around black people, right?

Should we show that on television to sell a product? :eyes:

[NashVegas]

38. Come to Think of It, I'm Surprised We Already Haven't

...

[JackRiddler]

142. It's not.

It's just that it works both ways. Why is your opinion worth more than his?

Valid answers to this do not exist a priori, and can only be derived through reason.

[treestar]

22. Just goes to show that no group is absolutely unified

The human mind is infinitely variable.

You can't speak for a group, only for yourself.

[JackRiddler]

25. such a deranged and hateful agenda

seek treatment

[Duncan Grant]

26. And what dog do you have in this fight?

Looks like someone has an egocentric wound that won't heal unless we pick at it.

Thank you, LoZoccolo. You have FINALLY convince me that my experience of reality is flawed. I will now stop being an uppity fag. :sarcasm:

[LoZoccolo]

27. A sense of humor and a passion for the art of comedy. n/t

[Duncan Grant]

28. Could have fooled me. n/t

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

34. Ah, is that what you think it is?

:eyes:

[Bunny]

30. Spoken like someone who has 900 (yes, that's NINE- HUNDRED) people on Ignore.

:eyes:

[LoZoccolo]

32. I no longer have that many; I took everyone off after the 2006 election.

But since then, I have put 105 people on ignore.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

35. Is Cyd Zeigler Jr a

hateapologist?

(that's what some DUers called me because I had said that the ad wasn't even gay-bashing!)

[Maven]

36. Kick.

[terrya]

37. I really don't care what Cyd Zeigler, Jr had to say about it.

Free country and all of that. But there were many people, including myself, who were furious with that ad campaign. Including, as has been mentioned, the HRC, GLAAD, the Matthew Shepard Foundation. And we made our opinions clear to Mars on this subject. Whether Cyd Zeigler, Jr thinks it's just hunky-dory for a multinational corporation to use homophobia to sell their crappy candy bars is entirely besides the point.

[Bluebear]

39. Maybe I will defer to Judy Shepard, not some guy with a fetish for pro sports players

But please, go on and find some more "experts" out there.

[Darkhawk32]

92. Do you all take substance in mothers of dead soldiers that support the Iraq war?

I didn't think so.

You don't feel the same about the war as those mothers, but you still feel empathy for them, right?

Same rule applies here.

[JackBeck]

118. Were you drunk when you wrote this?

"Do you all take substance in mothers of dead soldiers that support the Iraq war?"

How dare you challenge any member of the GLBT community for not feeling the same about the war. How fucking DARE YOU.

You really are a prick and you continue to display this throughout DU.

[Darkhawk32]

121. I don't think you understood the meaning of the post.

Namecalling is unneccessary either.

I wasn't challenging your feeling about the war. That would be absurd.


Do you feel bad that a mother lost her son in the war?

The mother then says that she believes in *'s BS war, does that automatically change your opinion about the war?

Of course it doesn't.


In this case, I feel horrible about what happened to her son, but that doesn't change my opinion this particular matter, NOR does it change the amount of empathy I have for Judy Shepard.

[Duncan Grant]

40. LoZoccolo must be right about all this hullabaloo.

Might as well kick this thread in order that more people can see the light. :kick:

[Bluebear]

41. Kick

[LoZoccolo]

42. I have to say that the kicks are not unwelcome, but...

...I would rather that they contain something other than just a raw "kick". It's OK with me if they are deliberate kicks, but I would rather that you provide us some novel insight into the minds of those who are not offended by the Snickers ad, or something similar, when you do post, so that there is something new to read when the post makes it to the top of the stack.

[Maven]

43. Kick.

[Bluebear]

44. Important info, kick

[LoZoccolo]

46. Kick.

:kick:

[Maven]

47. Kick.

[Prism]

48. I think the OP's point is . . .

. . . that not all gay people agree about whether or not the campaign was offensive.

Which would seem fairly obvious to all, but in many of the threads on the controversy I've seen my fellow GLBTers intimate (or outright say) that anyone not gay has no right to have an opinion on these things.

"I'm gay, you're not, so what I have to say is far more important. Anything against my opinion is belittling my feelings."

I disagree with that kind of thought. As a gay man, I think the response to the ad is an over-reaction. Feelings aren't sancrosanct things above criticism or disagreement. Feelings are often wrong. How many times have we seen our country set on an erroneous course because the politicians and the people reacted with their feelings instead of their reason?

As for saying any gay individual who didn't find the ads offensive are idiots or Republicans . . . well, that goes directly against my personal experience in the wake of all this. None of my gay friends have expressed the kind of outrage I've read on the 'net. None of them really seem to care about it at all. (All Democrats, btw).

The constant implying of what "good" gays should or should not think (and how straights should just shut up about it) is wearisome. I dislike groupthink of all kinds. Shouldn't everyone?

[Bluebear]

49. Did all your gay friends see the clips of the NFL players?

The ones practically vomiting that two mens lips touched? The ones saying "Whoa, whoa, that ain't right!" Your real life gay friends saw nothing wrong with that?

[Prism]

56. Yes

While discussing the controversy, I always try to make sure that we're clear on the objections. That it isn't necessarily the ad that aired, but the player reactions and the alternate endings on the website.

I've seen a lot of discussion only centered on the aired ad, and that's unhelpful because it doesn't address the larger complaint.

[Maven]

50. Thanks for the

kick.

[Bluebear]

51. It's important. Online gays have been way too sensitive about this.

[Maven]

53. Exactly.

And the OP has been tireless in pointing that out.

Kick.

[sniffa]

52. good gays

heLp to foster the environment of homophobia?

i Love how this has turned into an us vs. them issue.
kudos to you for not foLLowing group think... unLess of course you consider the fact that most of what you wrote has been said more often than anyone denouncing the ad campaign... but that's mob think, so it doesn't count.

[Prism]

54. I was referencing a post in this thread

That responded to the article by saying some gay people are idiots or Republicans - implying if you're gay and don't have a certain opinion about the controversy, there's something wrong with you.

I sharply disagree with that.

[Maven]

55. Well all those who were offended are wrong, therefore

they should sit down and STFU.

See, the OP even ran a poll and the majority said so.

Kick.

[Bluebear]

57. Damn that poll was locked & not everyone got to vote.

Kick.

[Maven]

58. OMG! How will I know how to feel?

Kick.

[LoZoccolo]

66. Actually, the poll is still open.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=132453

I think you found the one where I ask if the Snickers commercial or Elizabeth Edwards' light bulbs is the more important issue.

[Bluebear]

68. oh thanks!

[Maven]

69. Kick.

[Prism]

59. Conversely

I've seen the attitude that those who weren't offended are wrong (or even secretly homophobes).

Maybe people on both sides who believe theirs' is the only possible correct interpretation of the ads are wrong?

Humor and offense are subjective. No one will ever agree on this, I don't think. My objection rested mainly on the idea expressed in this thread that there's one right way to think about this if you're a gay person. That's really what prompted me to reply.

[Maven]

60. OK, great.

Think freely.

Kick.

[Bluebear]

62. yeah, the NFL players were only "lampooning homophobes"

It is very subjective if these guys were reacting negatively to gay men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2pcGABklyw

[terrya]

65. The NFL is one of the last bastions of homophobia.

It will easily be at least 20 years before a gay man can openly play on an NFL team. Just watching that little clip pretty much says it all.

[k_jerome]

76. i would respectfully disagree...

seeing some attitudes here over the last week, i would call society as a whole the last bastion of homophobia.

[Duncan Grant]

61. In all fairness, I've seen straight people say:

"I have a sense of humor. You do not. Lighten the fuck up. You're hurting your cause. Keep it up and you won't have my support any longer."

Festive discourse, isn't it? :party:

Oh! I almost forgot! And a :kick: for LoZoccolo because we should all see the error of our ways.

[Maven]

63. See, it's just because you don't understand satire.

Kick.

[terrya]

64. That's the worst.

Gosh, thanks. A bunch of heterosexuals who somehow know better than we about OUR issues compounded with a nice little patronizing "geez, lighten up, will you"? Just SO helpful.

And yeah...boy, LoZoccolo sure told us, eh?

Kick

[Bluebear]

71. Rescuing this from page 2

Kick

[Maven]

72. This gives me such a

kick.

[sniffa]

73. did this reaLLy drop so far?

[Bluebear]

74. I know, I get a kick out of it.

[deadparrot]

70. . . .

Okay, so some liberals (both gay and straight) found the ad offensive. Other liberals (both gay and straight) did not. If you did, you have (and successfully used) the right to protest. If you didn't, you have the right to chuckle, shrug, etc., and leave it be. No one, however, has a right to tell anyone else what they "should" feel about the ad.

[donco6]

75. Yes. Thanks.

Nothing more; nothing less.

[foreigncorrespondent]

77. When are the thick heads around here...

...going to realize that a few brainless morons in the queer community who are so stupid as to support homophobia going to realize that those brainless idiots do not represent the vast majority of us?

[Bluebear]

79. But fc, all they need to do is find one token to validate their opinion!

(shaking head)

[Darkhawk32]

78. The ones that are getting unnecessarily bent out of shape with this ad, I'm sorry to say...

are made of the same cloth as the Talibornagains that cry about Spongebob Squarepants being gay.

I see no difference between the two groups of people.

[Maven]

80. Kick.

Works just like a hate magnet!

I love it.

[Darkhawk32]

81. Being offended - fine. Getting downright nasty like some are with those that don't agree.....

extreme.

[JackBeck]

82. Kick

For misrepresenting.

[Maven]

83. Keep going.

Kick.

[Darkhawk32]

85. Don't have to. Your gang-like mentality is being shown right now.

:hi:

[Maven]

86. RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

Kick.

[JackBeck]

88. Are we the Bloods or the Crips?

Why don't you come up with a name?

[Maven]

89. He already has one.

Like it's our fault he doesn't have many friends.

[JackBeck]

90. And here I was thinking he was extolling our recruiting acumen.

Who knew he was just a loner.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

84. Kick.

:puke:

[k_jerome]

91. do you feel that the ad is not bigoted in nature...

or that gays are too sensitive to the bigotry?

[Darkhawk32]

93. Personally, I don't think the bigotry exists or at the very least, not intended.

Whether or not some are offended matters not to me (we can all have our opinion about it), but when people gang up, ostracize, criticize, call them homophobe or compare them to people that allow the same kind of bigotry that killed Matthew Shepard, that's crossing the line.

[k_jerome]

95. i am not trying to argue here, but do you not feel....

that the group being discriminated against has some expertise in defining the offense?

[Darkhawk32]

96. They have a right to feel however they want to feel.

But should I throw away the opinions of gays that I know or I have read here at DU that didn't take offense?

Some took offense, some didn't.

Problem is the reaction to those that didn't. It's unnecessary.

[Maven]

97. No, just realize your own opinion on the matter is frankly irrelevant

to whether or not we will address concerns such as these now or in the future.

BTW, did you hear the ad was taken down?

Kick.

[Darkhawk32]

100. And your attempted bullying will not stop me from voicing my opinion on

any issue now or in the future.

[Maven]

101. I look forward to it.

Now I know how to respond!

Kick.

[Darkhawk32]

102. And so do I.

[cboy4]

105. Poor, poor John Conyers. Using his avatar, you continue to

hold him figuratively hostage by indirectly associating him, in my opinion, with your obsessive war on the feelings of good, decent gay people.

You have a lot of soul searching to do in that regard, don't you?

Poor Mr. Conyers.

[Darkhawk32]

106. I can say the same thing about those who purport to represent the gay community in such a vitrolic

manner.

[k_jerome]

103. so, is the standard for bigotry a mixture of your own feeling of...

offense, or lack thereof, combined with a sample of the group in question?

[Darkhawk32]

104. No, but using a sample of the group in question in the opposite manner doesn't make it so either.

There are a lot of other variables and factors that is involved whether one decides, in their own mind, that something is offensive, bigoted or both.

[k_jerome]

107. lets throw out the word offensive and just concentrate on bigotry...

you said yourself that the ad may be unintentionally bigoted. could you please expand on this possibility?

[Bluebear]

108. It's only bigoted if straight people say it's bigoted.

Then they will scour the web to find a "gay" unknown to them that agrees, which systematically negates the feelings of, say twenty gay members of this community. Voila.

[Maven]

109. Silly.

He didn't scour the web.

His mom sent it to him. See, the night before, she had made him a cup of hot cocoa and brought it downstairs to his bedroom. And as she sat on the bed the two discussed the day's events at Democratic Underground.

That's when she'd remembered: she had a seen a link about the subject that very day! And it seemed there was a gay sports fan out there who thought athletes and fans were entitled to show their homophobia on TV if that's what they truly felt.

Thanks, Mom.

Kick.

[Bluebear]

113. Oh, forgot that Mom is just as Concerned over this topic.

Thanks for the reminder and kick.

[Darkhawk32]

110. I don't think the writers sat down and said, "Let's make a homophobic commercial."

I could be wrong there, I don't know. Nobody does.

Now if a secret document or something like that came out stating that the Mars company had intentionally put out this sort of commercial to advocate to fundie customers, then yes, my opinion on the intent and meaning of the commercials in question would change.

Bottom line is: Intent is a huge part.

The fact that the Mars Company pulled the ad quickly tells me they didn't desire it hurt anyone's feelings and isn't worth bad publicity.

Does that answer your question?

[k_jerome]

111. are you open to the possibility that bigotry against and demonization of gays...

has existed for so long in the mainstream as to become the norm?

what about the lifelong racist that utters the n-word as second nature? does it lessen the impact of the word because he gave no thought to its use?

[Darkhawk32]

114. To some, of course.

But I think where it gets muddled is when one sees racism, bigotry or whatever else where it may or may not be.

For example,

Let's say someone of Italian origin (with obvious Italian features) and his friend (non-Italian) walks by a couple of strangers. The Italian hears the word "guinea" spoken by one of the strangers as they walk by. His friend thinks he hears "guinea pig".

The Italian gets mad and says, "I can't believe he just called me a guinea!" He friend says that the stranger said "guinea pig" and that maybe he was referring to a pet of some sort and it was a coincidence that the Italian walked by at just that precise moment.

The Italian gets furious at his friend and starts to berate him, "How could you stand up for those racists? You must be just like them! Do you want all Italians killed or something?"

The friend says, "I'm not standing up for anybody. I'm just saying that I don't think those guys were even referring to you. We don't know what they were talking about. I heard "guinea pig". C'mon man, let's just get something to eat."

And thus the argument ensues....

There is a case on both sides when it comes to this Snickers ad. Some think it was homophobic, some think it was to make fun of homophobes. Both have a right to their opinion and the ones that were offended have a right to take action and/or demand clarification. What, in my example, the Italian was not right to do what he did to his friend.


**** NOTE: I CHOSE THE PERSON IN THE EXAMPLE TO BE ITALIAN BECAUSE I MYSELF AM OF ITALIAN ORIGIN ******

[k_jerome]

115. i'm sorry, are you saying that you acknowledge that bigotry and hatred of gays...

has become a societal norm? or are you saying it is a norm for some?

[Darkhawk32]

116. To some people, yes it is.

Now if you're trying to equate societal norm to biological norm, then no.

Nobody is born with a hatred of gays, it is taught. And in some cases, it is taught in certain circles of society.

[k_jerome]

117. i guess i should be more clear...

when i say society, i am referring to the USA...citizens and/or residents of this country, constituting a society. do you feel that it has become generally acceptable in our society to discriminate against gays through speech or action?

[Darkhawk32]

119. LOL. To some, yes.

To me, no.

Whether or not everyone sees that action or hears that speech in every questionable occurance is another matter.

[k_jerome]

120. understood. you do not feel this way...

what percentage of society do you think accepts this as the norm? greater than 50? 75? more?

[Darkhawk32]

122. It's definitely more than I'd like it to be. That's for sure.

[k_jerome]

123. can we agree that it is more than half? i would venture...

a much larger percentage, but for our discussion, lets say slightly more than half?

[Darkhawk32]

124. Ok sure. From poll results on anti-gay marriage amendments, I'd

say that's pretty accurate.

[k_jerome]

125. so gays in our country are, at the very least....

looked upon with disdain by over half the people they come into contact with every day. why do you feel it is so far beyond reason that those responsible for the ad are part of this majority?

do you not think it is understandable that members of the gay community may take seriously attacks that further erode what little semblance of fair treatment remain? based upon the percentage we arrived at, the number of people that support gay equality is in the minority. do you honestly think the architects of this ad campaign are in that minority? do you feel that you or i are in that minority?

my take on your example from earlier. the man did say guinea pig...pig as in swine and the italian man was correct in his analysis of bigotry. his disappointment in his companion was justified, and he would do well to further question this mans friendship. perhaps the italian man begins to realize how few friends he really has, and sympathy toward his plight is a little more empty than he thought.

[Darkhawk32]

126. Perhaps the man said "guinea pig" to refer to his daughter's pet?

That's the point. He didn't know what the context was of what was said.... he was walking by.

The Italian man had a right to ask if they were referring to him to see if that was a case of bigotry or a case of a misunderstanding.


And the Italian man berating his friend for hearing something different is not just cause to get nasty with him.

Now, I will say, if once the Italian man asked the strangers whether or not they were referring to him, the truth was revealed that they were indeed talking about him, AND if the friend still didn't defend or stand up for the Italian man against the strangers, THEN the Italian man would be justified in his anger.

See where I'm coming from?


I can understand how people are sensitive about such issues, but in the case of the Snickers ad, there was room for debate on either side of the issue.

[k_jerome]

127. it was my take on your hypothetical...

however, we have the snickers ad campaign on tape. have you seen all of it? given our discussions on the percentages, do you feel the architects of the campaign are in the majority of the minority?

[Darkhawk32]

128. Don't know. The case can be made both ways, depending on what your

opinion of the intent of the commercials were.

If you think that the ads were to make fun of homophobes, then you'd think those folks were in the minority.

If you think that the ads were to make fun of gay people, then you'd think those folks were in the majority.

[k_jerome]

129. and your opinion is that the ads intent was to expose homophobes?

i would be interested to hear that side.

[Darkhawk32]

130. Well, others have expressed that opinion on DU quite well.....

For me, in a nutshell, the guys looked idiotic and juvenile trying to "un-gay" themselves. And the player reactions were equally absurd and stupid.

Fact is, we don't know what the intent of the ad was. And like I said earlier, if the intent were to come out that contradicted my current opinion, then my opinion would change.

Again, for me, it's not a matter of "Agree vs. Disagree". It's a matter of the reaction of those that didn't agree with me and quite a few others.

[k_jerome]

131. you seem to disbelieve your lying eyes here...

you yourself agree that the majority would carry out just such an attack on gays, yet in this case, argue the opposite. isn't it going a little far to think that the players were hired as known homophobes to incriminate themselves for some higher purpose, which the vast majority never even saw? lofty goals for a candy bar ad, when i am hard pressed to find a book or movie that aspires to such noble purpose.

[Darkhawk32]

134. Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. But even if I'm wrong, does that automatically make me a bigot ...

or any of the dozens upons dozens upon dozens of those that feel the same as I do?

Is this Snickers ad the "test" of ones gay-friendliness?

Is this Snickers ad a "line in the sand", "agree with me or we're through" moment?

Does this Snickers ad mean so much as to alienate those that otherwise agree 100% of their agenda?

What right do those people have to speak for the entire gay community?

What about the ones in the gay community that feel the same way as I do? Are they declared "not gay enough"?

If you think the commercial is homophobic, why would anyone in the gay community give it that much power?


Just some parting thoughts for I must hit the hay.

[k_jerome]

135. there is not a test, there is the reality of daily life as a second class citizen...

i cannot imagine the frustration and anger that must entail, and I myself am a minority. their "agenda" is equal rights, and if this debate, no matter how heated, would alienate you from supporting that goal, i would have to question your dedication to it to begin with. i would ask you to reconsider your appraisal of the motivations behind this ad campaign, and perhaps understand the plight of those that wake up every day with the knowledge that a sizeable portion of society hold an irrational hatred for them. i venture to guess that you do not have to swallow that pill with your morning coffee.

good night.

[JackBeck]

94. The OP feels lots of things.

Most of which involve disturbing and marginalizing a certain minority group here in the States.

[LoZoccolo]

140. Kick.

:kick:

[bicentennial_baby]

141. kick

:kick:

[bliss_eternal]

99. Interesting avatar choice...

Trying to make a statement of contrast?

[Bluebear]

112. kick

[Jamastiene]

136. That is just utter bullshit.

Last time I checked, those claiming a sponge is gay have never been physically assaulted by gay people, yet gay people are constantly assaulted by people with that mentality. There is the difference you won't see. Grow another brain cell.

[Bluebear]

146. 'Grow another brain cell.'

:spray:

[LoZoccolo]

147. Please do not attack people personally in this thread.

I do not want this to become that kind of a thread. I think we're having a productive discussion. So productive that it has lasted for several days.

[Neshanic]

98. Kick for Mr. 105 people on ignore.

[donheld]

132. 105 on ignore? Damn

[k_jerome]

133. how can you tell that? nt.

[LoZoccolo]

137. I often freely disclose the size of the list.

It's somewhere north of that right now.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

138. Working your way back to 900?

Kick.

[LoZoccolo]

139. Towards, but I actually don't think it will get that bad this time.

People seem somewhat more positive with the Democrats in control of Congress, and will probably be much more thoughtful and practical this time around. Up until then, I think a lot more people uncovered their hidden propensity to freak out (like the astronaut with the diapers).

[xchrom]

143. so cyd is ignorant of modern media images and language

and doesn't understand when he has been marginalized.

that's all that cyd's reaction means.

but i think the op DOES understand these things -- and has posted this with the intent to harass, marginalize and insult lgbtq people.

the op has found a soft way to exhibit his/her bigotry and subject others to it.

[LoZoccolo]

144. Even if that were so...

...you should use your telepathic mind-reading abilities for something more important than a Snickers bar commercial.

[xchrom]

145. i should use my mind reading abilities to say -- hey that's homophobic -- here or on tv.