How bitter and cruel have we become?

[originalpckelly]

My goodness, it seems whenever anyone does anything anywhere, up to and including dying, we have to go on and on about it in a cruel way.

Granted, the newsgasms that the media has over celebrity deaths is a bit much, but that is certainly no excuse to act this way.

No one can have a house, or eat anything, or really do anything without asking for our approval or something.

What the fuck is life worth living if people are going to be fucking mean to each other at every opportunity?

The idea of activism is to make the world a better place. Are you doing that by bitching so much?

What about all the electricity you have to use to act self-righteous? Eh? Yeah, that's what I thought.

The fact that there are problems in the world doesn't give us the right to make people feel like shit. That's a problem in and of itself.

[MADem]

1. BushCo has brought us the age of snark, smartass and cruelty.

Notice? When Clinton was president, we could mourn when people died (Okahoma, e.g., or Somalia).

Now, we have to wave bullhorns and shout threats.

And if you aren't making a shitty, smartass, flippant comment, well...you aren't "cool"...see?

[originalpckelly]

2. Either that or people are just plain full of themselves...

and are taking themselves too seriously. Maybe they acted like this last year, and I was just too focused on serious stuff, but it seems we've been getting mean lately.

[Bluebear]

3. I just said this site is not progressive anymore...

not if people have let Bushco turn them into cold, snarky, keyboard warrior monsters.

[originalpckelly]

4. I've noticed this year mostly...

When Ford died, that did it for me. I don't why we're being so mean, but for some reason we are. We weren't like this only a couple of months ago either.

[Bluebear]

6. My ignore list has gone from 1 to about 20 this week.

I am just not listening to it anymore.

[1620rock]

7. It's the stress anger and frustration of the times.

[Bluebear]

12. I reject that...if you are progressive, can the times change you that much?

Do you think it has changed personalities so much? I hardly recognize this place anymore! :(

[NuttyFluffers]

39. i can believe it. pressure over time, it will break any and everybody.

what your breaking point is is just a function of where your weakpoints are. and to be human is to have weakness. so i ask that you refrain from (or use more judiciously) that question "if you are progressive..." because it leads to dangerous incremental increase of superbia (self-righteousness, superiority). this itself is critical to the formulation of another, and often quite insidious, weakness of false pride. so, since it is only a matter of when before pressure and time is applied to the right levels upon you, and you will then end in the same position you now point at, it would be wise to reconsider.

if it helps just think Pluto is pissed off being demoted and everyone's feeling his wrath. :P it'll make letting the stress drain away easier. :D

[Bluebear]

41. Oh believe me

I gave no problems with self-righteousness or superiority here. In fact the folks who have disappointed me over the last week have displayed those very qualities, as if life is some altruistic pissing contest.

Also. I stand with Pluto. :)

[NuttyFluffers]

45. i always laughed at the "Gother than thou" chide. i'm sure we can make another

altruistic pissing contest... i guess "Holier than thou" but that's been done to death.
how about "I feel your pain more than you!" no, too long.
'Anguish more than thou'?
'Lament more than thou'?

or something more bumper sticker?

"I weep for angels stuck dancing on the head of a pin."
"My compassion is endless, unlike you, you ungrateful fuck!"

tell me when i'm getting warm...

[OnyxCollie]

61. A gravestone I saw in Tombstone, Arizona had inscribed upon it,

"As I am now, so will you be."

Hard to top that one.

[NuttyFluffers]

65. wow, now that's a profound epitaph

i actually like it. i might even use it on my tombstone. it definitely has possibilities. kinda puts most of life's petty problems in perspective.

[murielm99]

66. You mean to say you are going to

TAKE UP SPACE after you die? Shame on you!

You need to be cremated, you poor excuse for a progressive!

:sarcasm:

[NuttyFluffers]

69. ;) but of course, someone has to build my pyramids.

i like to think of it as a public works project to keep thousands of families working and fed.
:P

[Syrinx]

40. Were you here the day Reagan died?

That was a very nasty day. It's not a brand-new phenomenon. Although, I can understand the hatred of Reagan more than that of Anna Nicole Smith. Still, there seems to be a viciousness of just about any online "community," and that is sad and a little bit disturbing.

All that I really know about Anna Nicole is that she parlayed an obvious sex appeal into a lot of money. That says more about society at large, than about her. I don't hate, or even dislike, her. I feel sorry for her. If there is an afterlife, I hope she is at peace.

[Horse with no Name]

16. I think Reagan planted the seeds

and the Bush's have sown them.

[MADem]

34. Absolutely. Paris Hilton was born in the "Greed is Good" Wall Street era

Kids learn from their parents at an early age, and then take it to the max.

The greatest generation was very patriotic, and the Vietnam kids were patriots on steroids--taking it to the streets.

These kids grew up with parents who worshipped big hair, fancy cars, jewelry (before it was called bling), designer clothes (Gucci, Pucci, Fiorucci...and poor dead Anna Nicole's GUESS? jeans) and the movie WALL STREET. The apple doesn't fall far, I fear...

[mentalsolstice]

55. I agree, the Reagan era planted the evil seed

The 60's generation were called the "me" generation, and I've always disagreed with that. It was during that era that we became aware that there were those less fortunate than ourselves, and those who had fewer rights than others. Many good non-profits sprung out of that era. However, I think the Reagan era brought in the true "me" generation, where it became all about stock options, fancy dishes, and designer clothes. That was the era where we saw the administration ignore thousands of people who were coming down with a mystery illness, and corporations began to realize they could "own" our government. Bushco is simply turning it up a notch or two, or ten.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

5. kick

for voice of sanity

[mzmolly]

8. APPLAUSE!

:applause:

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. I'll add an applause to that one

[MoseyWalker]

9. thank you

[patrice]

11. There is a lot of that around. I just stay away from certain kinds of threads.

There are many people on this board who are not Democrats, who really want to hurt anyone they can, so Democrats get blamed by association. And then there are others who want to hurt others only because they like to. Don't have anything to do with them. You can't win against them. Reacting to them in any way rewards them. Ignoring them is what they dislike the most. Get even with them by making them 0.

[Neecy]

13. well said.

I was repulsed by the saturation media coverage today - so I turned the set off.

I've stayed out of the ANS threads today because the one I looked at had some of the most ridiculous flaming I've seen yet on this site - and I've been here since 2001. The rudeness was just jaw-dropping.

Why we're beating up on each other when we've been assaulted constantly by the right is a mystery.

[jarab]

14. I think DU was not this mean in years past...

Most would (then) simply defer if they didn't have something constructive to say.
I don't know why the cruelty exists. I just don't believe we can blame the actions on *, hard as some would try.

In times past, it was a rarity to see some of the posts seen of late; now it's commonplace.

jmo
...O...

[blonndee]

17. Seems like people

used to get TSed a LOT more often, and this kind of stuff wasn't tolerated. I could be wrong, but that's how it seems to me, and I've only been here a couple of years.

[Bluebear]

19. Oh absolutely.

You could express a contrary opinion, but now people are allowed to threadstalk and present all kinds of FR-Lite opinions.

[Rowdyboy]

20. The day Bob Hope died (summer of 2003) there was an eruption of hate here....

I've never been a huge fan of Hope but he was certainly undeserving of the sickening comments that dominated DU that day. It was the first time I'd seen DU at its worst and it stunned me.

[jarab]

26. I had overlooked that incident ...

It was one of the first worst of a personal nature as I now recall.
Good memory!
...O...

[TahitiNut]

31. I remember that. Sad. (I didn't like him - skipped show in Nam - don't slam him, though.)

Once upon a time, even snark would get a post removed ... and too many such removals got a tombstone.

Now ... snark is more than half of the posts. We don't discuss - we posture and interrogate. We're getting to the point where any difference in perspective, no matter how described, is the basis for getting called a sexist pig, a bigot, a homophobe, a racist, an anti-Semite, or a host of other slanders. It seems to make no difference what one might say - we have mind-readers who can see through the wires and into our hearts. Our dark, corrupted hearts. (sigh) If you're a smoker, you're killing babies. If you're a Viet Nam vet who was spat on, you're a liar. If you shop at Wal*Mart, you're a GOP supporter. If you drive an SUV, you're raping the planet. If you're in favor of equitable military service, you're trying to murder someone's child.

There's no accommodation for principled positions that are contrary to some zealot's pet issue.

Then there're the discussions of the candidates. I've yet to see a critical examination of a Democratic candidate's record that didn't attract the claim of candidate-bashing. (Good grief!)


Now, it's gotten even worse. I was viciously attacked for not being OFFENDED ENOUGH! While I've been a GLBT activist for over 20 years and lost a job at least partly because I refused to fire a lesbian who worked for me - did a good job, too - merely because she wasn't "liked." (I liked her. She was forthright and honest.)

It's impossible when one not only must agree but also must agree to a sufficient degree. The name-calling and slanderous mischaracterizations are appalling.

[NuttyFluffers]

42. "We don't discuss - we posture and interrogate."

that's a beautiful summation of the current atmosphere. Inquisitions don't build friends or discover much (well, not much beyond the evil, which is suddenly seen everywhere). it's become a game lately, a strange popularity game, i think. i'm not much into popularity games, not even when i was young at school, so i'm just going to refrain from these "Societal Games." apparently everyone's fighting for space on the soapbox and showing off their celise -- i'm rather more interested in finding a nice cafe and having a nice conversation...

[MADem]

22. Well, Bush didn't invent it, but he has certainly facilitated the meme

He's the one who was more interested in bellowing threats on a bullhorn than mourning the 911 dead. He's the one who made up excuses to go to war, and got snarky, shitty and mean when anyone questioned him. He's the one who lied like a rug to the nation, to the UN, and had Colin lie some more for him. He's the one who has his subordinates throw covert agents under the bus for political points. He's the one who has an "HOW DARE YOU?" attitude when anyone asks him to explain himself.

And his "Major league, go fuck yourself" #2 is no better. Look at bullying Rove, hectoring Fleischer/McClellan/Snow, even snarky Scooter, and the rest of the WH assholes--to say nothing of the rude dickheads on the GOP side of the aisle in both Houses, refusing to let the Democrats have any say in the legislative agenda at all.

I do think they, by their example, have contributed to the incivility of the day. They set the example, and the bozos in the "adult" cartoons, like South Park, imitate the "fuck you" attitude. They think it's COOL to be rude, snarky, superior, condescending and hubris-laden.

It's the rather fetid flavor of the decade, I'm afraid. People WILL look back in shame, I suspect.

[jarab]

24. "They" may have contributed to the incivility. Who am I ...

to say? I can only opine that I don't think they are the culprits.
But, we surely don't want to imitate them. And we should strive to be better than they whom we "dislike", in the process avoiding the label hypocrite.

...O...

[MADem]

28. Well, I think a lot of the people who affect the 'tude don't realize where it comes from

But I do see a lot of GOP snark in popular teen and young adult culture....there's this whole "I've got mine" theme. Forget the least of your brethren...make fun of them instead. Greed. like back in the big hair eighties, is GOOD again. And who was king of the hill in the eighties? Why, King Ronnie, of course!

This is a country where way too many young girls want to be Paris Hilton, and way too many boys want to be (insert name of any rude, crude or thuggish fellow with poor hygiene and bad manners). Very few want to work hard--that's for suckers. Or so it seems....

[jarab]

30. I cannot disagree with the culture angle you suggest. (nt)

...O...

[murielm99]

68. About ten years ago,

there was a rise in skinhead incidents in my area. High school kids in my town were imitating them. Our school administration was in denial.

I checked out some books about the phenomenon. Most of the books were about the recent history of skinhead groups, Christian identity churches, and groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center, who combat them.

One of the books was a collection of essays. I wish I remembered the title. But one of the essays blamed the rise of all this on the era of "Ronald Reagan and Fuck-You-Ism." That was the title of the essay. The author was right.

[MADem]

70. Way too many nitwits, who had lived through the "Hair!" sixties (and were appalled at the long locks

on the young males...they thought it was the end of the world, that they were barbarians!) actually thought, initially, that skinheads were 'clean cut.' Hey, when you don't look closely....!!! The habit of tattooing in recent decades has kind of ruined that fiction, and by contrast, the curly locked lads now look like angels in Renaissance paintings!!

But the eighties WERE a "Greed is good" era. And the first decade of this new century to me IS like the eighties on steroids.

I notice (for reasons I have not figured out quite yet) that you always see a 'reverb' in the way society conducts itself--for some reason, society likes to look back about twenty to thirty years for cues as to how to conduct themselves in the present day. For example, in the mid sixties, there was a look back to the Depression--remember those midi and maxi dresses that all the girls were wearing (and getting dragged down escalators)? The 'granny' glasses, Bonnie and Clyde? This was quickly followed by a resurgence in swing dancing, forties styles, and forties music (Bette Midler's Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy was emblematic), and even in the films and books--it's almost as though it takes all that time to sort out what happened, or what people want to THINK happened. In the seventies, Sha Na Na looked back at the fifties, Happy Days/Laverne and Shirley were big TV hits, and so forth. In the eighties, BIG hair was all the rage, sharp dressing, with fine suits that beat the Rat Pack were in fashion, like it was in the Jackie Kennedy sixties (and our 1960's-style Ugly Americanism abroad morphed into greedy "Wall Street" Ugly Americanism at home), the sixties "discotheque" was pumped up with stereo steroids and 120 beats per minute and became "disco" and everyone was shakin' that thang--only they weren't twisting, frugging, swimming, monkeying, OR doin' the Mashed Potato! Instead, they were all "Travoltas!!"

For the last ten years or so, kids have been wearing the low slung jeans, the boot cut bellbottoms, the 'vintage' tee shirts, stylish rips and tears, messy hair--and they strut around like they invented that stuff, like that fashion is NEW, and they don't notice how gramps and grammy look fondly at them and smile at each other. They need to look at Grampa and Grandma's photo album, at the "Polaroids" of them at the anti-war protest in 68 or 69 to see the origins of their unique style!!! I notice that "70's hair" came back as well, which means--horror of horrors--we're heading towards 80's hair (I've already seen evidence lately of a sort of Farrah Fawcett flip here and there) before we know it....how long before they get out the old school Geri Curl kits? Stand by for ruined furniture AND linens!

It makes you wonder what we're in for in two decades--will the Paris Hilton/Britney "take yer picture" private-part flashes become a full-fledged, everyday fashion statement? Will the style cross the gender line, become an everyday event, so that "everybody's doin' it?" (Please, never mind the visuals, just the sanitary issues alone....!!!). Will horrible "Top 40" music actually get WORSE? Could people possibly get meaner, ruder and nastier? Do we have time to reverse this crap, and not make this hideously shitty SELFISHNESS the signature of this decade? I have no idea...I do hope we can reverse it.

We just can't get much meaner....or maybe we can, but if we do, it will be unfortunate. We may well be marching towards that "Ronald Reagan Fuck You-ism"....on steroids!!

[Raksha]

46. That's ALMOST it, but not quite--at least the way I see it.

To a certain extent, we HAD to become like them in order to defeat them. Maybe I should only speak for myself. Just like everyone else here, I saw the same things you did--the insufferable arrogance of the BushCo inner circle and all the Republicans, especially the really evil and powerful ones like Tom DeLay. The "fuck you" attitude. The "How DARE you question me?" attitude. Not only are they mean-spirited but they actually seem to glory in being mean-spirited, like it's something to be proud of. And their kool-aid drinking fan club on all the various discussion boards is every bit as bad.

So how did that "cruelty is cool" attitude come to infect those of us who supposedly know better? Again, I can only speak for myself. What made me more and more furious was the all-pervasive attitude that liberals are WEAK, that compassion and civility are weaknesses. I thought I was going to scream if ONE more conservative asshole sneered at me "I FEEELLL YOUR PAAAAINNNN..."

And to a certain extent I shared that assessment when I looked at the Democrats in Congress, always giving in when the Repukes demanded an apology, always called "obstructionist" even though most of them seemed to bend over 9 times out of 10...

And yeah, just like everyone here I thought, Dammit, these people are bullies and the only thing a bully understands is a swift kick in the ass--and WHEN are our Dems going to give it to them? I actually got to the point where I loathed the word "civility" and I still habitually put it in quotation marks. I have a very negative reaction to words like "civility" and "bi-partisanship" because to me they are euphemisms for capitulation. I absolutely HATE being told "I expected better of you" (meaning I should pull my punches), and I actually told one freeper who pulled that on me on another forum, "Don't EVER 'expect better' of me!"

My tag line on that forum is: "Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything." --Harry Truman

I originally found that quotation on DU, and I'm still using it. I don't think there's anything wrong or invalid about using the enemy's weapons against them, and it was ONLY when a whole bunch of progressive types started getting angry at the same time, and STOPPED being such ladies and gentlemen that we started winning.

But to adopt that same combative attitude with EACH OTHER??? I guess it's impossible to adopt meanness as a tactic without to some degree internalizing it.

[meow mix]

15. some nice and sweet person dies and immediatly gets savaged

by these so-called progressives who have no idea why they hate her other than what the media has told them too.

if they had any idea of the kindness in her heart, theyd break down in tears.. i have to hope.

[Horse with no Name]

18. She was a tortured soul that was exploited in many ways

because she was too beautiful and not quite smart enough to realize it. Of all places, you would think a site full of progressives would realize that. She is supposed to be the kind we fight for.

[man4allcats]

36. Thank you for your thoughts. I agree completely.

R.I.P., Anna Nicole. You were so beautiful.

[man4allcats]

62. Longest running DU thread?

That remains to be seen. As per Freddy Cannon, she was my "Tallahassee Lassie" or at least I wish she was. Anyway...



Beauty lives forever.

[man4allcats]

63. Thinkin' about you, Anna Nicole...

Sam Cooke couldn't and wouldn't have said it better. You were a sweetheart. :-)

[man4allcats]

64. I'm not posting any blue pictures of you, Honey.

Let them find them if they want to. To me you were always just a Sweetie. Love to you, Kiddo. R.I.P

[earth mom]

21. I thought it was bad around here when Steve Irwin died...

but it's getting uglier by the day. :(

[originalpckelly]

27. I know, it's just one thing to be angry about after another...

life sucks, but not that much!

[Jamastiene]

29. Agreed, wholeheartedly.

I still haven't forgotten the vitriol spewed toward him and his fans. I'm still not over that either.

[ScreamingMeemie]

23. I know one thing's for certain...if I should die, DU won't know about it.

That's for certain. I haven't "done" enough with my life.

[meow mix]

25. something to include in my will. under NO circumstances is DU

to know of my death. just leave me that last shred of dignity ty =)

[BayCityProgressive]

32. I too cannot believe the reactions

I am sure this will be one of those stories that we will hear about for months on end now, but the Anna Nicole story really made me think. Our media is based on sensationalism and lies for profit. Anna Nicole is just one more person that the media hyped up, then used as a punching bag with classist terms like "white trash" and sexist attitudes as if she was just an object. They trashed her because it brought them ratings and profits. They helped ruin her life and lead her to where she is now. They use people like her to take the focus off of more important issues . Now that she is dead they are profiting off of her more than ever. It is a sick and sad testament to our society that less than one hour after her death there were people selling "Anna is dead" memorabilia on E-bay for thousands of dollars. This girl grew up in poverty never knowing her father, was violently beaten by her first husband, which went unpunished. The rest of her life she was basically used by a sexist classist system. She stated in many interviews that she couldn't trust anyone, that people in the media would never give her any breaks, and that she just wanted to die.

This is similar to how the media profited off of our soldiers blood. They reaped record profits chearleading a war and now they are reaping the profits of covering each bloody day that more soldiers and Iraqi's are murdered. It is no wonder our society is so sick. Even our "news" is a farce based on people's misery for profit. If this is the best social and economic system humanity can come up with, that is truly sad.

[Jamastiene]

33. That's sad but true.

I'm inclined to agree and follow your lead in my own will. Such vitriol toward such a neutral person. I mean last time I checked Anna Nicole Smith was an animal lover and certainly was not a republican, so why do those people hate her so much? I don't get it. Are they doing it just for the sake of hating and being rude? Is being rude doing something in our lives worthy enough to live down to the rude people's standards? Or do they see being rude as being up to some standard? I don't get it at all.

[Raine]

44. Same here

I wouldn't want my family to see me being trashed since this seems to be the custom with so many here regarding the recently dead. :-(

[silverojo]

35. Amen!

And the ironic thing is, everyone who's so cruel about the deaths of people like Anna Nicole Smith are the same people who claim to be so saddened by the deaths of people in Iraq.

Does this mean they feel Americans' deaths are less important than Iraqi civilians' deaths? (Sympathy--like charity--begins at home.)

Does this mean they feel that an unarmed civilian who dies tragically is less important than people who volunteered to serve this country, are armed, and have willingly agreed to sacrifice their lives if it gets to that point?

Does this mean they feel that the REAL tragedy of Bush trying to kill off the DEFENSELESS poor and aged by making massive cuts to SS/Medicare/Medicaid is less important than the deaths of people who are healthy, armed, and (again) volunteered to serve in the military?

Or maybe they're just revolting hypocrites, who feign sympathy over the war, when the reality is that they have no sympathy for the suffering and deaths of defenseless people right here at home.

[MazeRat7]

37. Its not about bitter, its about feeling "superior" and "righteous" .. both are errant. -nt

[NuttyFluffers]

38. factionalism has always been a useful tool of evil

considering all populations of genetic beings are essentially comprised of indviduals (thanks Darwin :hi:), it would be nigh impossible to not be able to create factionalism in a given population. but the true evil gift of factionalism is that it fosters strife, animosity, unlistening, resentment, etc. all the while nurturing false pride (y'know, the one that makes you feel self-righteous and superior). it shifts the core of the individual from a gathering "we" to an all consuming "me," which is absolutely critical in the nurturing of selfishness and overriding self-preservation. eventually flying from crisis to crisis one gets hypnotized into a hysterical state in which factionalism is far easier to breed. no group is immune, but it helps to know what this poison is to tamper down its growth. the key is to admit humility (fallibility, humanity, weakness, etc.), search for commonality, and then reorganize commonality over difference as the base foundation of your relationship with others. individuality is still recognized because as human beings we are very complex and can multitask aspects of our identity. we just subrdinate self from a "me" of primacy and receiving, to a "we" of equality and sharing. this is hard, expect more screaming.

[Raine]

43. THANK YOU

for posting this. This whole thing today and some of the nastiness in the past has really given me second thoughts about our side. The times we are living in and what they are doing to people is very disillusioning and disappointing.

[Missy M]

47. Thank you for expressing what is happening.....

with so much cruelty lately. I sometimes wonder if the meaness comes from envy of the fame and riches certain people achieve.

[earth mom]

48. People need to stop judging those who have hurt NO ONE but themselves.

And save the judgments for those who DO hurt others. Like those in Congress who won't stop-IMPEACH-the madman in office who is responsible for the death of thousands of people!

The B.S. around here is enough to make you :puke:

[Swede]

49. It is cruel and stupid to show such cruelty and stupidity.

There are a lot of them here on DU.

[Bake]

50. Blaming it on * or the "other side"

Is about as stupid as the Pukes blaming everything on the Clenis. Just because they are assholes doesn't mean WE have to be assholes to each other (although it's OK to be an asshole to THEM, of course). Frankly, human nature is human nature, whether one is liberal or conservative. Both sides have always had an element that considers itself "superior" to others --"I'm more progressive than you are, you bastid!" And conservatives certainly have no monopoly on arrogance and the "nobody's got the truth but me" attitude.

It does seem to have gotten much worse here on DU. We've always managed to flare up some good flame war threads - smoking threads have always been fun, e.g. - but in general, I would HOPE we're better than that. We need to remember that while we may not agree, we're still on the same side.

Sigh.

Bake

[ForrestGump]

57. Yes

You saved me from writing this same thing. :hi:

[pecwae]

51. Even more applause.

I think these things need to be said, need to be discussed.

Maybe I'm doing a disservice to progressives by holding them to a higher standard of humanity and compassion. Maybe I'm just deluding myself in thinking that's so. I don't condone cruelty to anyone or any being and felt I was amongst people of like mind here. Lately, I've had cause to reconsider.

Between your post and Mrs Grumpy's I thank you both for broaching this subject.

[MamaBear]

52. Squeeze factor

As people fall into the trap the banks and the credit card companies and our corporate bosses and, of course, the R's, have laid out for us, as people have to do more and more with less and less, and with our party in power seemingly falling backwards into apologetic, seeminlgy meaningless postures, people get stressed and angry. Fortunately, they will find an outlet. Unfortunately, an internet message board is so convenient.

People have always beaten up on other people -- at least all during recorded history. And there is such a thing as mob psychology.

What shocks us is that we, as people who work at living our lives consciously, can fall into the trap, or that people we know (at least by screen name) can fall into it also.

As we give Anna Nicole ("'what the F did she do to get all that money' '(when I have none!')") a break, let's everyone take a breather and have a drink and do something to soothe our frayed emotions.

Remember, the media is still playing us like an out-of-tune violin, and you KNOW how that can get on your nerves.

P.S. Have you dear friends ever considered turning off your TV? It's not a panacea, but it helps.

[LeftishBrit]

53. I agree with your general viewpoint; but am not sure that things are worse than a long time ago

Some of the 'cruelty-is-cool' comments I've seen here remind me very much of the attitudes of a certain group of my fellow university students in 1980s, Thatcherite Britain. This group of people were often active in student journalism and hoping to become journalists or media people themselves; and their brand of journalism did not consist of news-reporting or activism, but of clever, sarcastic, pseudo-witty commentary on other people, with the subtext: "I'm one of the successful; you as my readers would like to be like me; the people I'm talking about are boring failures who deserve to be sneered at". Among this group (known as "hacks" to many of their fellow-students), the high term of approbation was not to be wise or kind or helpful, but to be a 'bright spark'. The most negative term was not 'nasty' or 'cruel' or 'dishonest' but 'boring'.

Some of that generation did indeed grow up to be sarcastically superior media-people. I don't know if Rod Liddle is read in the United States, but he is a personification of that sort of attitude, and, though he was not one of my fellow-students, was a fellow-member of the Thatcher Generation.

On the whole - and remember, I'm speaking about the UK - I've preferred the attitudes of later generations. You get nasty people nowadays too, but nasty is not seen as equalling cool, at least among those who would regard themselves as intelligent. Of course, there is still plenty of the nastiness in the media, not least in 'Big Brother' and similar reality shows - one phenomenon that HAS got worse.

Of course, there can be a thin line between 'cruel is cool' and the sort of black humour that many people, including myself, sometimes use to cope with bad things. I'm not saying that every flippant remark about someone who's died equals a vicious sense of superiority. It's sometimes just a way that we cope with this stupid old world. But I have to admit that there've been a few remarks from time to time that have surprised me on a liberal board; and I'm not just talking about the Anna Nicole Smith comments.

But I wouldn't stay here if I didn't think the board was great as a whole!

[carolinayellowdog]

54. Five times the membership, ten times the snark since 2002

When I joined in the summer of 2002, there were about 17,000 DUers. Of course there were conflicts and ugliness but by and large this was a mutually supportive COMMUNITY. By late 2004/early 2005 we had grown threefold, and the incivility level had skyrocketed. Where it hit me hardest was the extreme vitriol directed at Southern DUers in the months following the 2004 election. But most of the serious ugliness was before the election among DUers who favored different primary candidates.

I would agree that starting with the 2000 election theft, Republicans have perfected a bullying demeanor and the media have promoted the meme of weak/feminine Dems vs. strong/masculine Repubs. Also agree that our culture has been seriously degraded in terms of what passes for news and commentary, with the rise of Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. But as far as DU's slide into incivility is concerned, I wonder how much it's simply the difference between a town of 17,000 where everyone knows your name and a city of 100,000 strangers.

[enki23]

56. who the hell is "we?"

don't fall into that idiot trap. there is an awful lot of "we" here, and there isn't a single damned thing that all of us agree on.

that said, many of us truly *are* bitter. far fewer are actually cruel.

[MADem]

72. Well, to be fair to the OP, it was a rhetorical question, followed by the OP's view on the matter

And as you note, "we" do indeed have many opinions on this issue.

It's not a bad thing to air them all...and it's not a bad idea either to recognize the incivility that seems to be on the increase...not that we'll necessarily agree on what, if anything, to do about it.

[Turn CO Blue]

58. Some nasty infighting going on over at DailyKos community too

Everyone just needs to decompress and chill the hell out. Let's be good to each other.

[nonconformist]

59. K & R. I barely recognize this place lately.... sad. nt

[Generator]

60. You know there are big differences between people of power

and just public people, the "celebrity" age. Everyone knows of someone like Steve Irwin or Anna Nicole. Every with a TV that is in America. We act like we know them, we all have an opinion on their life. And my opinion of all those opinions is they are meaningless. Trite. I can spout them all in 20 seconds. So I don't read those threads. It's so easy to demean someone you think you know that you have no REAL idea of. We never met them or talked to them or kissed them. It's all a creation of the media. But instead when they die, my reaction is stupid I guess as well, I didn't know them but I still cry. On my TV Anna Nicole died and the body of a 69year old grandmother that was lost and in poor health that was found dead both last night. I cried for both. I didn't know either of them. Just a bit of the stories the media gave me. Every time they show some pitifully young soldier that died from Oregon on the news I cry. Maybe he was an asshole in real life-how do I know? But I cry from what I know. He shouldn't have had to die in Iraq. The child of Anna Nicole won't have a mother. A man and his children and grandchildren no longer have a grandmother. The sadness of life always touches me.

But when it comes to a person of immense power over others lives-real lives and deaths-the Pope, Ronald Reagan, I feel they are fair game. I don't think I have to show respect on a political message board for political power players. Not their families-of course it's always sad for them, but I'm not going to say I cried when Ronald Reagan died. I didn't feel a drop of sadness. So I think there is a difference. And I honestly think DU needs a forum for things that are celebrity related-and have nothing to do with politics. Anna Nicole and Steve Irwin being two recent examples.

As far as the cruel comments, it is really absurd. Unless they left you broke and raped you, I don't know how you can feel so impassioned over a stranger. They didn't do anything to you. It's just absurd. It needs it's own forum. My meaningless opinions on celebrities that never did shit to me. Maybe that's it.

[MADem]

71. Wow, that's actually a very good idea you threw in there at the end

It's just absurd. It needs it's own forum.

That just might solve the problem entirely-- a forum entitled "NON-POLITICAL CELEBRITY NEWS" or something like that.

This is, after all, a forum with a decidedly political bent. Certainly, people aren't "All politics, all the time" (unless they're very driven) and like to discuss other matters, but maybe a CELEBRITY forum, or even a "BEATEN TO DEATH HOT TOPIC" forum (I missed the Edwards' house business, but I understand it was many, many threads--and I've seen other issues go crazy like that too, with everyone starting a separate thread for no good reason except to pee on the tree) might throw all that crap in one corner.

Then again, there's always that "Ignore Thread" option. It comes in handy more and more, unfortunately....

[xultar]

67. BRAVO!!!! BRAVO!!!! BRAVO!!!! BRAVO!!!! BRAVO!!!! BRAVO!!!!

I can barely stand DU anymore.