NBA players reaction to a gay teammate: kind of what you'd expect

[theboss]

I've interacted with a few professional athletes in my day. And their level of intelligence typically goes like this:

1. Hockey player (for whatever reason, hockey players appear to be pretty bright guys)
2. Football player (you really can't be dumb and memorize the typical playbook)
3. Basketball player (simply because it is tough to be a millionaire at 19 and care about, like, algebra)
4. Baseball player. I love baseball. But there is simply nobody on the planet dumber than a professional baseball player. The average American baseball player is plucked from home at 17 and sent to, like, Auburn, New York to live with other really dumb guys. They spend 4 years living in small towns with other dumb guys, thinking only about curveballs and getting laid until they are sent to Minneapolis where at age 23 - after five years of absolutely no mental stimulation - they become millionaires. And I'm not even including the Latin players, who have all of this happen at age 14).

Anyway...pro basketball players - even those who went to Duke - aren't the most sophisticated types. So, when former NBA player John Amaechi came out of the closet this week, the reactions were...ok...I guess (if extremely dumb).

God bless Deadspin.com:

"For real? He's gay for real? Nowadays it's proven that people can live double lives. I watch a lot of TV, so I see a lot of sick perverted stuff about married men running around with gay guys and all types of foolishness." - Stephen Hunter of the 76ers

"It's something I'd have to evaluate. You take showers together, you're on the bus, you talk about things. With teammates, you have to be trustworthy. If you're gay and you're not admitting that you are, you're not trustworthy. It's the locker room code; it's a trust factor." - Lebron James (I have no earthly idea what this even means).

"You don't want to know that there is somebody in your locker room and you are not aware of it. And maybe you had to be careful being where you put yourself in a situation where you might get hit on by a teammate." - Ray Allen (whom I've always liked)

"As long as you don't bring your gayness on me I'm fine," - Shavlik Randolph (I think this should be a t-shirt)

http://deadspin.com/sports/nba/nba-stars-handling-amaechi-news-with-typical-grace-and-aplomb-235310.php

[HuffleClaw]

1. 'your gayness' !!!!

'NOW in minty fresh aerosol'

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

21. I just had this suit dry cleaned...

and you got your gayness on it.

[mainegreen]

32. Sounds like a victorian dandy royal title.

"Your Gayness, the ambassador of France is here to see you".

:shrug:

[JackBeck]

2. Why do heterosexual, homophobic men think that

if I guy is gay that automatically means that he wants them?

[mikeytherat]

4. For the same reason they think all women want them, too -

it beats the hell out of reality.

mikey_the_rat

[ProfessorGAC]

11. Good One, Mikey!

That really seems to be it in a nutshell. Too many men think EVERYONE wants them. Gay men, hetero women, and even hetero men, IF they were gay!
The Professor

[Nikki Stone1]

39. Yeah, Professor. Why is that?

:evilgrin:

[jcrew2001]

54. star athletes

Its cuz star athletes have woman throwing themselves at them every day, not just for their skills and talents, but most athletes work out a lot and have good bodies. Just like men being attracted to thin women with good bodies, most gay guys are probably attracted to buff men who work out.

You're showering with other guys, you don't want someone looking at your junk and thinking about touching your junk. If guys and girls showered together, i'm guessing things might not be platonic. That's what lebron was talking about, he wants to trust that his teamates aren't out to sexually harass him because just like in the business world, sexual harassment happens all the time.

Unlike in the business world, athletes spend time around each other naked and in the locker room. The focus is on the game and winning, there is no place for sexuality in professional sports.

I know this sounds a bit callous, but in the locker room and on the field its about being tougher and stronger than the next guy, a lot of that is mental toughness and winning the psychological battle, I think its up to that gay athlete if he is tough enough and secure enough to come out. Professional sports is so difficult, that getting cut is in the back of everyone's mind, everyone is out for themselves and its all about making the most money.

[Fuzz]

41. You mean they don't?

;)

[theboss]

7. Because all men are narcissits

We think, if I was gay, I would totally have sex with me.

[catzies]

51. And of course professional athletes, catered to since childhood are the same

In the narcissism department.

[MotorCityMan]

20. And why are the ones that are so worried so unattractive?

It always seems that the guy's who are so worried about being seen as a sex object are the least likely to be viewed that way be either a male or female.

I see it as a lot of heterosexual men fear being looked at/talked about/treated like they treat women.

Also, one of the big gay myths is that every gay man will make a move on anything with a dick. Although I've known my share of gay male sluts (and went thru my own period when I came out at 18), in my experience gay men are actually extremely picky about who they will sleep with.

I wish more guys were like Henry Rollins, who is straight (and who I think is HOT as HELL!!! Woof!). He stated in an interview how he was hit on by gay men on occasion. He would take it as a compliment and politely tell them he is not interesed.

[AspenRose]

24. No kidding!

Like they're the sh*t or something.....

[bleedingheart]

27. well there are just some folks (men and women) who think everyone

wants them...

It has less to do with the sexuality of the person and is more about the giant ego...

[JackBeck]

28. While I agree with your first statement

I have to disagree with the second.

Heterosexual, homophobic men always use the excuse that a gay man will hit on them/check them out/whatever to deny us access to certain parts of our society. The want us out of the locke rooms and barracks because they figure, under those close circumstance, I gay man will be unable to control his sexual urges and will pounce on them the second they have an opportunity. Sexual identity, I believe, has a lot to do with it.

[bleedingheart]

29. I completely understand what you are saying and that may be true

it's just I have witnessed more of the exaggerated ego aspect of it...

[TorchTheWitch]

42. No, I think it's because they fear they may "catch it"

Like it was some kind of virus. Why would they feel fear of being pounced on by a gay guy? If it ever happened, they already know they'd just take some swings at the supposed offender and all the other guys would pile on, too. Hell, they'd probably enjoy it.

No, I really believe that deep down they're afraid they might catch "gayness" as if it were a communicable virus... and then they themselves would have to deal with ridicule, identity crisis, ostracism by their peers and all the other unpleasantness that they know gay men suffer. They don't want to be naked around gay men because deep down they fear that the lack of garment material shielding them, they're far more vulnerable to the "gayness virus".

[Spangle]

53. Blows a lot of myths. Forces it to be talked about publicly

That is part of it. But I also think that in the 'locker room' sence, if a female was showering, walking around half nakec, etc.. it would be preceved that it would be 'ok' to attack her sexually. Another words, she was flaunting it, asking for it.

Well, if they are walking around nude, showering, etc... all in front of a gay guy.. are they asking for it? <grin>

Puts a new light on things.

This is a good story. I've been waiting for this issue. It takes a big news story about something like this, to get people seriouslly thinking. And for them to realize that there is a really huge chance they have been in the locker room with a gay guy and ... nothing happened. Oh, my GAWD! Kinda blows the myth!

[maxsolomon]

30. as a straight guy who does get hit on by gay men...

i suppose it means that straight men think gay men are just as horny as straight men. therefore, they are likely to think "that's a hot guy" or "i'd like to fuck him" when they see a hot guy, especially a naked professional athlete.

that makes the homophobe (who lives in all straight men to some degree) worry that someone is looking at them in a sexually predatory manner & it's threatening.

personally, i take confidence from the attention of gay men - to me it confirms that straight women probably think i'm hot, and that i don't come off as uptight.

[theboss]

33. Aren't gay men just as horny as straight men?

I would assume so.

[maxsolomon]

36. to hear them tell it, more so.

seems easier to get laid if you're gay, too.

[HuffleClaw]

31. i think also that they are often projecting

[BlueManDude]

3. Baseball has really changed demographically (not really related)

but the African-American baseball player is becoming a rare breed. What you have now are an increasing numbetr of hispanics and latinos and white guys. I also notice that the number of born-again types among the white guys seems to be really exploding. Just an observation.

[LiberalVoice]

6. Actually...

The ratio of white to black to hispanic is about 1/3 each in baseball.

[frankenforpres]

34. think they meant american black n/t

[theboss]

35. I don't think that's accurate

Unless, you are counting "black Latinos" as black. The current number of "black Americans" in baseball is 10 percent.

[meegbear]

5. Lebron James' statement is just a straw man ...

What he's saying is:

"It's something I'd have to evaluate. You take showers together, you're on the bus, you talk about things. With teammates, you have to be trustworthy. If you're gay and you're not admitting that you are, you're not trustworthy. It's the locker room code; it's a trust factor."

[TheWraith]

8. Oh, please. Who's the one playing with straw men?

If anything, I'd read James' statement as being the most positive of the lot--that he'd rather have an openly gay team mate than one who was lying to him. I honestly couldn't give a fuck about the issue, but I don't like it when people lie and spin to serve their own personal agenda. I would think that there are enough injustices in the world without having to manufacture new ones in an effort to feel persecuted.

[theboss]

9. I still can't figure out what Lebron is saying

I would go along with the "just be open" thing if the worst words out of his mouth did not involve showers.

Athletes appear to be terrified that gay teammates would be looking at their junk in the shower.

(Oddly, none of them seem the least bit concerned about women reporters).

[TheWraith]

15. Penile insecurity.

Maybe they're uncomfortable with the idea that someone who's in on all of the secrets of maleness is evaluating them sexually, and they're afraid they'll be judged lacking. Or else they're just too wetwired heterosexual for their own good.

[jcrew2001]

55. women

Thats untrue - only in the 90's were women allowed in the lockeroom. There was a terrible incident with the New England Pats where all the players harrassed a woman reporter because they didn't want her there. It was a huge story and now there are laws allowing women in. Believe me, women reporters see naked athletes all the time in the locker room.

[JackBeck]

14. You've set low expectations for what should be considered "positive".

Something he has to evaluate? Well doesn't that elevate him into a position to either castigate a player or grant a player his approval. Rather condescending if you ask me.

And what's with the bit of showering together? WTF does that have ANYTHING to do with it?

His statement was just as insensitive as the rest. No where near bordering on positive.

[ProfessorGAC]

17. I Agree With Jack

The expectation implicit in Lebron's statement is that every teammate is required to share every intimate detail of their personal life with every other teammate, or they can't be trusted.

That doesn't sound very open or positive to me, either. Nice catch, Jack.
The Professor

[blonndee]

48. No, only if they're GAY do they have to share every intimate detail. nt

[jcrew2001]

56. harassment

I think he just doesn't want to be sexually harassed at work. I know a few gay guys and they have said that they are attracted to straight men.

Its about being on the same team and winning games, and not worrying about the sex stuff at work.

Showering together is one of the most vulnerable things.

[ruiner4u]

16. ...yawn...

[meegbear]

19. He'd rather have an openly gay team mate than one who was lying to him?

And I'm sure when he's pickup up the soap, he's thinking "God, I hope John didn't lie when he said he thinks that it was the rise of nationalism within the European nation states and not the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand that triggered World War I. I could never trust him."

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

10. On behalf of all Duke bball fans, I apologize for Shavlik

in advance. There was a long long thread on his comments on Devils Den, the forum for DBD fans, and all were in complete disagreement with his statement.

What the heck is 'gayness' anyway?

[theboss]

26. "Gayness" is what every true Dukie fears most

It probably has something to do with Dante Callabria's hair.

[TheWraith]

12. If hockey players are so smart...

Then why do they take a job which involves being beaten half to death with a wooden club?

[theboss]

25. It's either that or ice fishing....

The great Warren Zevon wrote the ultimate ode to the hockey player:

He was born in Big Beaver by the borderline
He started playing hockey by the time he was nine
His dad took the hose and froze the back yard
And Little Buddy dreamed he was Rocket Richard
He grew up big and he grew up tough
He saw himself scoring for the Wings or Canucks
But he wasn't that good with a puck

Buddy's real talent was beating people up
His heart wasn't in it but the crowd ate it up
Through pee-wee's and juniors, midgets and mites
He must have racked up more than three hundred fights
A scout from the flames came down from Saskatoon
Said, "There's always room on our team for a goon
Son, we've always got room for a goon"

There were Swedes to the left of him
Russians to the right
A Czech at the blue line looking for a fight
Brains over brawn--that might work for you
But what's a Canadian farm boy to do? (Hit somebody!)
What else can a farm boy from Canada do?( Hit somebody!)
But what's a Canadian farm boy to do? (Hit somebody!)
What else can a farm boy from Canada do? (Hit somebody!)

Hit somebody! was what the crowd roared
When Buddy the goon came over the boards
"Coach," he'd say, "I wanna score goals"
The coach said, "Buddy, remember your role,
The fast guys get paid, they shoot, and they score
Protect them, Buddy, that's what you're here for

Protection is what you're here for
Protection--it's the stars who score
Protection--go and kick somebody's ass
Protection--don't put the biscuit in the basket just
Hit some, Buddy! it rang in his ears
Blood on the ice ran down through the years
The king of the goons with a box for a throne
A thousand stitches and broken bones
He never lost a fight on his icy patrol
But deep inside, Buddy only dreamed of a goal
He just wanted one damn goal

There were Swedes at the blue line
Finns at the red
A Russian with a stick heading straight for his head
Brains over Brawn--that might work for you
But what's a Canadian farm boy to do? (Hit somebody!)
What else can a farm boy from Canada do? (Hit somebody!)
But what's a Canadian farm boy to do? (Hit somebody!)
What else can a farm boy from Canada do? (Hit somebody!)

In his final season, on his final night
Buddy and a Finn goon were pegged for a fight
Thirty seconds left, the puck took a roll
And suddenly Buddy had a shot on goal

The goalie committed, Buddy picked his spot
Twenty years of waiting went into that shot
The fans jumped up, the Finn jumped too
And cold-cocked Buddy on his followthrough
The big man crumbled but he felt all right
'Cause the last thing he saw
was the flashing red light
He saw that heavenly light

There were Swedes to the left of him
Russians to the right
A Czech at the blue line looking for a fight
Take care of your teeth--that might work for you
But what's a Canadian farm boy to do? (Hit somebody!)
What else can a farm boy from Canada do? (Hit somebody!)
But what's a Canadian farm boy to do? (Hit somebody!)
What else can a farm boy from Canada do? (Hit somebody!)

[k_jerome]

13. these attitudes reflect the vast majority of our society. nt.

[valerief]

18. Don't the hockey players all come from Canada and not the States?

That could be why they're the smartest.

[Ian David]

23. Hockey players spend all day playing on ice, which makes their privates shrink from the cold...

and NOBODY, gay or straight, is going to find their junk attractive.

[Ian David]

22. They're imagining a gay man would behave the same way in their locker room...

as they themselves would behave if they were allowed to shower in the women's locker room.

It's because they're fucking juveniles.

It's also why they're ball players, and not gynecologists.

[treestar]

37. Well you've got some generalizations about each type of athlete here

That I'm thinking you would be outraged at if directed toward gays.

Then the thread contains generalizations and outright attacks on straight males.

It is that turnabout is fair play? Fine, but hypocritical if you don't allow for similar statements made about gays.

[theboss]

38. Oh, I would make generalizations about gay folks in the right thread

I'll generalize about anyone.

But seriously, I played baseball. I've been involved with pro baseball players. By and large...not bright people.

The fact that Curt Schilling is the quotable, politically aware player should be proof of that.

[theboss]

44. Now....I can't mock David Eckstein?

What is this world coming to?

Just one midget joke, please?

[jcrew2001]

57. schill

Curt schilling won't even support stem cell research and his own charity is for ALS, lou gehrig's disease, what a complete moron.

[nonconformist]

40. That's what struck me too. nt

[zonkers]

43. LeBron's remarks dissappoint me if they are accurate, as do the otherr guys'

You'd never catch Shaq making any remarks like this. I mean even if you think these stupid thoughts about gays or anybody else, you should at least be smart enough to keep it to yourself, especially when you're a role model. If you have nothing nice to say....

[theboss]

45. Lebron is 22 and has spent his entire life on a basketball court

And is now worth $100 million.

As Wilbon wrote today, his life since age 12 has been measured from tip-off to tip-off. Frankly, it's a miracle that he can even bathe himself.

And for the record...he is simply murdering the Heat tonight. God, he is good when motivated.

[zonkers]

49. Here's a youtube clip of young Eddie Jones slamdunking. Chick making the call...

Watch the clip till the end... The second dunk is even better. The third one is pretty good too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWx4y9v7urM&eurl=

[Oeditpus Rex]

46. I'm going to shoot a couple of holes in your theory

First, no one is allowed to sign a contract with an American professional baseball club until they're 18 years old or their high school class graduates. In addition, major league clubs don't sign that many guys out of high school anymore — I'd estimate it's a third or less — because they use college more as a proving ground with less emphasis on minor leagues than 30 years ago.

Also, the only players on football teams who memorize the entire playbook are the quarterbacks. Everyone else needs to know only their own assignments.

I've spent a lot of time around minor league baseball players, though, having done PR for a ball club in the California League, and I agree with your assessment: baseball players are the — I won't say "dumbest," but they're certainly the least sophisticated. But it's not so much an education thing as that baseball's "inner society" apparently disapproves of critical thinking. I've been in the locker room, around the dugout and in the bullpen, and I never once heard anything approaching intelligent conversation. I've known players who aren't stupid, because the jobs they held in the off-season (teaching, etc.) wouldn't allow it, but you wouldn't know it by talking to them.

[ScreamingMeemie]

47. See now, I just had a completely different experience.

The ones we met recently on the Tigers (last month) were rather bright, engaging people and were able to converse with us quite normally.

[Oeditpus Rex]

50. That's why I said 'unsophisticated' rather than 'stupid'

I've found a lot of ballplayers to be engaging. But if you got them off a small handful of topics, they didn't have much to say.

Maybe I should clarify: I don't think there's a greater percentage of unsophisticated ballplayers than in the rest of society. What I've noticed, though, is that baseball is quite repressive. Ballplayers just don't talk about the things that most people (most I know, anyway) talk about. It isn't them, per se, but just the dynamics of the clubhouse; it isn't cool to be smart. :shrug:

I knew one guy, a starting pitcher, who seemed smarter than most of 'em. He was well-spoken and just had an air about him — too much, really; the rest of the players didn't like him much.

Although — he was an amateur photographer, and a fairly good one. One day he came to my house to use my darkroom, and after a fairly long stint of printing, he came out and said, "Y'gotta baf'room?"

:eyes:

[cadmium]

52. I am familiar with many boxers and

most of the boxers I have known dont care one way or the other about who is heterosexual or homosexual. They may make taunting comments in pre-fights but it is totally a show. The locker room factor in boxing gyms is that sexuality is nobody's business.