Windows expert to Redmond: Buh-bye

[alfredo]

I have on my flame retardant suit, so go at it brothers and sisters. No mention of Anna Nicole Smith or Snickers is in the article.

http://tinyurl.com/2nm38e

February 07, 2007 (Computerworld) -- Editor's Note: This is the third installment of a series in which longtime Windows expert Scot Finnie gives the Mac a three-month trial as his primary machine for work and home use. Be sure not to miss Part 1 and Part 2 of the series.
Bye-bye Windows! My three-month Macintosh trial has ended, but my permanent gig with the Mac is just getting started. Apple's MacBook Pro and Mac OS X are now my computer and operating system of choice.

If you give the Mac three months, as I did, you won't go back either. The hardest part is paying for it -- everything after that gets easier and easier. Perhaps fittingly, it took me the full three-month trial period to pay off my expensive MacBook Pro. But the darn thing is worth every penny.

[wakeme2008]

1. I program Linux at work and only use OSX at home

when I leave work I do not want to have to work with another computer.

[slackmaster]

78. I run Windows 2000 Server at home for the exact same reason

:D

[Prophet 451]

2. Thanks for that

With the abuse that is Vista arriving, I'm seriously thinking about jumping to Mac or Linux too.

[alfredo]

3. Back in the mid nineties I was advised by a Mac programmer to

learn Linux (MkLinux). He told me that was the direction in which Apple was heading. He also said that if MS killed off Apple, everyone was migrating to Linux.

Learning Linux has greatly enhanced my appreciation of OSX.

[madokie]

22. My next upgrade will be a mac no doubt about it

that was my first inclination way back in the beginning but the program I really wanted to use was PC only then, AutoCad

[Clark2008]

35. The Vista interface looks very much like a Mac, btw.

[Occulus]

84. which itself looks and feels like linux with a bunch of GTK+ widgets installed

Maybe running Compiz as well. Which itself is equal to Aero.

Micro$oft is going to regret the pile of catsick that is Vista.

[sharp_stick]

4. I worked with Mac's for 6 years

I didn't mind them, they did what they were supposed to do. Now I use a PC, it does what it's supposed to do. Vista is running fine.

I really don't get all the complaining from users of one about users of the other. Fine the one you like and stick with it. Honestly the incessant "Mac's are better, no PC's are better" whining I get from people is boring me to tears.

Just one quick look at the website though, everything you do after paying for it should get easier. The desktop looks to start at $2500 without a monitor... yikes! I didn't go any further into it's guts to see why, likely they're worth the cash, I'm not in the market.

[alfredo]

8. That price is for a Pro model. iMacs with a 17" screen can be

bought for about a grand. The Mac Mini can be had for $599 and you just plug in your mouse, keyboard and monitor any you are set.

[Clark2008]

36. I work in computer training and I completely agree.

PCs aren't going anywhere - they're cheaper for most companies than Macs, but, then again, Macs aren't going anywhere either. They're a top-of-the-line need for publishing and graphic design.

[alfredo]

49. You're going to see them used for medical imaging,

recording studios, live performance, Hollywood for editing and rendering. Having just 5% is more than enough to build a multibillion dollar business.

[susanna]

63. I think we're long lost twins.

Both Clarkies, and plus I'm here to back you up on this post. I would tell aspiring designers: don't think of a publishing or graphic business without a Mac. Period.

If you do, don't say folks didn't warn you.

[Edweird]

5. The new mac os can be hacked to run on PC's so why spend all

that cash?

[alfredo]

6. $599 is not a lot of money for a Mac. How many people

know how to do the hack?

[JCMach1]

55. 599 is a hell of a lot of money... I could buy 4-6 used pentium 4's for that

Will NEVER touch a Mac! Overpriced piece of proprietary ....

[alfredo]

75. You can buy a lot of Kia's for the price of one Mercedes too.

[Scout]

7. why would I want to run a hacked version of an otherwise good OS

on a crappy machine?

[Edweird]

9. I don't believe that pc's are crappy machines

The fact that the standards are open and anybody can build compnonents or write software for it means that there are bound to be conflicts and interoperability issues. Not to mention the fact that the new Macs are essentially identical to pc's EXCEPT for their typical nazi-like approach to "authenticity". So, if they are so crappy, why do you like them too? :-) . I don't want to get into the whole Mac-PC flame business. I just wanted to point out that they are the same now, and the only difference is the software (operating system).

[alfredo]

10. When you get into the cheap machines you will get the

bargain basement components that fail in short order. That gives PC's a bad name. There are quality machines out there, but like the Mac, they don't make up the majority of the market. People tend to shop by price. They'd rather buy some cheap box at Wal Mart than pay extra for quality.


Not all PC's are equal. You have the eMacines and Alienware. Which one will still be running 7 years from now? This Mac I am running was bought in 2000. It was a store demo model. the only hardware failure has been a hard drive last month.

[Edweird]

11. Acutally,

at least my experience has been that any prebuilt box computer is going to have roughly the same components. All you are buying for the most part is the name. The better companies make sure there are not compatability instead of just throwing whatever is cheapest in the box, but that is about it. I've always built my own since wayyyy back in the day. My first was a 386 sx16 with a whopping 4 megs of ram and a grayscale. And that cost about 2500. I used to work for a contractor that did the service work for Packard-Bell and Fed-Ex.

[alfredo]

12. Packard Bell, that was a winner. I had a friend who threw his

Packard Bell out the window of his house.


Corporate culture has a lot to do with the quality of the product. They might stress volume, cranking out shovel ware, or They might appeal to those who want or need a quality machine that is reliable. Huffy and Masi are both bicycles. They have two wheels, handlebars, brakes and a seat. But one is made of pot metal, the other of high carbon steel. One has a crank made of low Rockwell hardness, the other of high hardness. One is sold for casual use, the other for those who know and care about buying a safe, reliable, and well engineered machine. That is what the corporate heads demand. Masi appeals to the enthusiast, Huffy to the casual price conscious consumer.

Those posting to this thread are probably enthusiasts.

[Edweird]

13. Yeah, Packard-Bell was total crap.

My job was to test equipment that the field techs would swap out. The field techs would replace everything and I would determine what the problem was. Parts that tested o.k. would re-enter the service cycle, to be used on another service call. What a joke. They had zero concern for parts integration. Whatever was cheapest off the boat from hong kong was what they put in them. I used to be an "enthusiast" a long time ago when I used my computer for making and mixing music. Now it's basically a catalog of internet porn, so I just keep them running with comp-usa stuff. But again, my experiences have shown that the expensive stuff doesn't last any longer than the cheaper. Mostly the manuals are a little nicer.

[alfredo]

14. When you open a computer's case you can see who put

effort into the design and who didn't. Does the case have sharp edges? Do you have to bend and bang on the case to get it back together? Is it a mess of wires and brackets? Do they show mercy on the repairman?

All computer companies need a Jonathan Ives.

[madokie]

23. so thats what a mac looks like???

cause if it is then no doubt I will be buying a mac next time

[alfredo]

28. I was showing the work of Jonathan Ives of the Apple

design team. Good design goes beyond a pretty case and bright colors.

[blockhead]

15. I'm on an emachine right now.

eight years later and I'm still waiting for a problem. I guess you never know.

[alfredo]

18. Good for you.

[geomon666]

39. Actually I've had my eMachine since 2000 also.

Still runs beautifully. Never, ever had a problem.

[Clark2008]

40. I had - no have - an Acer PC computer I bought in 1996.

I used it up until two years ago when it was no longer feasible (or cost effective) to keep trying to upgrade the processor speed and memory.

It still works (it needs a fan that doesn't sound like an airplane taking off, though). The only time I had a problem out of it was when I got a virus from God-knows-where. I had to work weeks to clean that out and then re-install some anti-virus software, but, other than that, I never had an issue.

And that's an ACER, for God's sake. :hi:

[Richard Steele]

42. I seems CONTRADICTORY to say you "don't want to get into the whole Mac-PC flame business"....

...one sentence after you refer to Apple's "typical nazi-like approach to "authenticity'"

:shrug:

[0rganism]

45. hardware compatibility, eg

One of the reasons Macs are reliable is their guts are very predictable from the POV of the OS. When you get a Mac, there's no question that all the parts work together as advertised right out of the box.

I've played with installing DarwinX86 on various rigs a bit less than 2 years back as part of a SW dev job (we needed to build and test X86 Mac libs before the official Intel Macs came out), and it was a pain to find hardware that's 100% compatible. Something like 10% of the machines I worked with could succesfully run the Darwin HW autodetect, the X11 integration was incomplete, stuff like Carbon wasn't included in the install, I could go on and on. Unless things have changed significantly since then, it's probably not worth doing except for serious hobbyists.

The Mac is more than its OS, it's a complete system of hardware and software that works well in a particular way. That's why you get a Mac -- to reduce the need for messing around with internals and get straight to work with your end-user apps.

[Omphaloskepsis]

67. Becuase 10.4.9 will break the hack used to get 10.4.8 running on a generic PC.

It can work.. It is just running Software Update will fuck you up. And I just looked on Dell.com for something similar to my 17 inch iMac and the best I could do was only about 100$ cheaper. Not dealing with spyware/virus problems is well worth the premium. And I fucking hate using Windows.

[Initech]

16. I love my Mac. Wouldn't go back for anything.

Windows Vista sucks from what I've heard. No way would I pay $400 for a crappy OS.

[opiate69]

17. We just bought an iMac Desktop last weekend..

it's the first brand new computer I've ever owned, and so far, I'm just loving it...

[alfredo]

19. Is this your first Mac? If it is we have a Mac forum.

I've always had their Pro line, but now that I am retired I will have to go to the iMac. It has more than enough power for what I need nowadays. The iMac is a nice machine. The iMac is at its heart a MacBook. Same goes for the Mac Mini Apple has been using laptop technology in the consumer line of desktops since the 20th Anniversary Mac. Your iMac could be the direct descendent of that 20th Anniversary Mac.

If you are new to the platform (or not) and need a list of resources on the net, we can help over at the Mac forums.

[opiate69]

20. I did not know that. Thanks for the heads up! I'm gonna go check it out now.

[alfredo]

30. Here's a couple good links

http://www.macupdate.com/ software

http://www.maclife.com/ Used to be MacAddict. Has been voted the best computer magazine at least once. Used to much "cheekier" in its early, insurgent days.

http://www.macnn.com/ has good forums

http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/ software

http://osx.hyperjeff.net/ software Every now and then an anti fascism message pops up on his site.


Check out mac janitor. at one of the software sites. Cyberduck if you need ftp. Check out Quinn for a great tetris clone. GIMPShop for image editing, Inkscape for SVG, NeoOffice (Open Office) for a free office suite. I use the spread sheet quite a bit.

What will you be doing with your computer?

[opiate69]

31. Wow! Some very good links..thanks so much..

I'm not a huge tecchie type, so I'm sure I probably wont get the absolute most out of my Mac, but for what I'm using it for, it's perfect.. primarily, I'm using it for writing music with Garage Band, and creating videos, flyers and other promotinal material for my band.

[alfredo]

34. You've got the perfect platform for that.

You know Radio Head used a Mac for the synth voiceover, same with Marilyn Manson and Harry Shearer. Much of Bjork's electro work is Mac based. I think Imogen Heap is also Mac based.

Several movies made on iMovie have made it to Sundance. Check out the lower priced version of Final Cut Pro. I think it is Final Cut Express. A lot of the in the field content you see in the news was created using Final Cut Pro.

[opiate69]

41. Yeah.. the sound quality from Garage Band is pretty incredible..

my other guitarist came over today, and we recorded a little piece to use for auditioning vocalists, and when I burned it to disc and put it in my enertainment system, it sounded every bit as good as any of the CDs I've recorded in the past. Now all I have to do is figure out how to import audio and video from DVDs so I can put together sme visuals to run behind us while we're on stage...

[Poiuyt]

47. Final Cut Pro has also been used to edit Hollywood movies

Oscar winning editor, Walter Murch, used FCP to edit Cold Mountain. I believe he has done others with FCP, but that was the first major motion picture done that way.

Final Cut Express is a simplified version of the Pro. (Probably OK unless you need time code). iMovie is the editing software that comes pre-installed and is suitable for most people.

[enki23]

21. if i weren't a pc gamer, i'd be right there with ya

but i am, so i can't.

[Elwood P Dowd]

26. Macs can run Windows if you need it for games

or specific Windows software. Most PC Windows users are not aware of that. I'm not into games, so it doesn't affect my use.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

52. Depending on the game the performance may suffer though. PC Gamer just did

a feature on this and ran benchmarks and the performance benchmarks were a lot lower for most of the games they looked at on the Mac system, although I'm sure for many games there's no noticeable difference.

[alfredo]

56. Was that using Boot Camp or Parallels? Boot Camp

is a dual boot set up, Parallels is a VM.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

59. I believe it was boot camp but not 100 percent sure.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

60. Just found it. Boot Camp on a top of the line Mac Pro. Playable numbers, but

significantly lower than a comparably priced PC rig.

The ability to use the highest performance graphics cards in the PC but not the Mac Pro was the deciding issue.

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. Another reason why I woudl not be able to look at a mac

hubby would go absolutely crazy... hard core gamer

Me... give me a base machine adn I will be MOSTLY happy... but him... we chase after the holy grail of performance every three years or so... moore's law in action

[alfredo]

74. If the Mac focused on Gaming, I'm sure those numbers would change.

the Mac has never been focused on game playing. The content creator is where Apples' loyalty lies.

I used to be a mail carrier and I went into businesses every day. You wouldn't believe how many had Solitaire on the screen and how few had actual work displayed. The print shop and the news paper were the only exceptions, and they were the only Mac based businesses in town. I mentioned that to the editor of the paper and he laughed. He said his computers weren't toys.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. Amazing

this machine I am typing from is a WIN based machine

It is used for games (by hubby)

Yep it does have solitaire...I have not played solitaire in years.

And for the most part, except when blogging, this machine is used by ME as a working machine

By the by, Macs can also be used to play games.

What is more, macs also come with some little apps like the Solitaire application that WIN based machines come with

The fact is, DEPENDS ON THE USER, and if companies do not check on their employees they will blog, play solitaire, what have you... it is human nature

And I could go on and BASH your lovely machines.

I will state a couple facts that Mac users have a problem with at times.

1.- Win based machines still outsell all other platforms in the world, both Linux and Mac.

2.- From those sales numbers they surely are doing something right.

Your bashing of Win users is as bad as the bashing Linux users at times carry out as well, or for that matter the feel superior attitude of ISP users NOT on AOL.

Honey would be better in trying to make people look at Macs, than the kind of disdain you show for users of other platforms.

For the record, I know just how many problems win based machines can and do have... heck I have had to learn how to fix them...

But quite brutally honest, as I said bellow, your average user (who buys a computer for entertainment) is not going to put up with a double boot machine, or one that is quite frankly slower than it should be, or more expensive to get the same performance out of the box.

Just like your average user will not put up with WINE to make Win based programs run on Linux.

(Which for the record is all but user friendly and lacks quite a bit in performance)

Those are realities... and cold realities LINUX users don't get either

I will use an analogy from what I do

Players don't care about the statistical table for a D12, or how we come up with the Target Numbers for any action, or for that matter the years it took to develop the character generation system, They only care to open up a book, take a pencil out... and make a character and god dammit roll some dice. Well the same can be said about a computer user. Average users want to turn on their machine, and do whatever they bought it for, and do it fairly well to well.

By the way, this machine is also used for DTP... I am sure you know what that is. I use Scribus, you know why? Commercial programs, such as Pagemaker, are way out of my budget... and you know what else? Scribus does the job and does it well.

That is what I need from my computer and my software; nothing more, and nothing less.

Could a mac serve me fairly well? Perhaps, as I said I have a CAD based application that I use at least twice a week, that is a resource hog, (emulators really eat resources too) and it is not made for either Mac or Linux... clear enough for you? Or do I need to bash Mac for it? In your view probably the company. Oh and guess what, that app is the Industry Standard in the gaming industry, and there is NOTHING even close to it in the Mac world.

[alfredo]

85. I see you have discovered Scribus. You should also look at

Inkscape for your SVG needs. If you look at my anti bush posters site you can tell which one used Photoshop for text and which one used Inkscape. The SVG text is much sharper. I use Scribus for leaflets and such, but I am better at working with Inkscape and Photoshop for such tasks. I need to use Scribus more to develop the speed of development I have obtained with other apps.

years ago I read that most businesses only use three applications, a spreadsheet, word processor, and e-mail. In some cases those businesses could have done without a computer. My post was showing that in the business world where PC's dominate, they sit idle much of the time. In the content creation businesses where the Mac dominates, they are an integral part of the business.

BTW, Macs don't have that solitaire game anymore. The Solitaire came with the old OS, pre OSX. They do offer a nice looking 3D chess application.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. I also use GIMP

instead of Photoshop, as well as Paint.Net, and Corel Paint. they have different uses for me, at different points of production.

And I also use other linux based OGL programs

Now in the business world OUTSIDE the US, due to the WIN security back door problems, people are moving to Linux, and some state governments are also doing the same (Massachusetts comes to mind)

There is one problem with LUNUX... Open Office, as powerful as an application that it is... it still lacks one thin that Word does fairly well... Grammar checking, though they led in XML as a saving format (even if the average users does not know this or for that matter cares, and the footprint of those files is smaller, why Word .07 has implemented that, even if they are not calling it that way)

But in the business world machines, MACs WIN, Linux, does not matter, will sit idly, It has precious little to do with the machine, OS or the left handed widget

I run my small business... and quite brutally honest it has to do with poor work flow planning by the big boys...

And the Apple comes with a game, it does not matter if it is solitaire, mines or chess, it is still a game (and given I make my living from producing them, I have no problem with them having a game ok)

;-)

Now as you accurately said in the visual arts a MAC is a necessity... but the MAC was designed primarily for that and it does its job admirably well

If I won the lottery... (given I don't play... well I have a slightly worst chance of not winning it), I would love to get a top of the line Win Machine (for the games addict in the house, a top of the line MAC for the publishing side of the house, and a laptop for my CAD applications and to take it on the road, and the Laptop I might consider having a WIN emulator on it and going for the MAC, but otherwise... no, I have a choice of one machine every so often... and it cost me a pretty penny and saving quite a bit of money... so WIN it is)

And yes one of my relatives, hubby works on a WIN machine due to his extensive CAD work while the wife works on a MAC machine, she's an artist

[alfredo]

89. Have you ever used GIMPShop? It is a hack to make the menus

more like Photoshop.

There's one thing PS has that I haven't been able to find on GIMP and that is the ability to fade a filter. If you know how to do that in GIMP, I would be pleased as punch.

I do a lot of PDF's. I also use OpenOffice (NeoOffice) and have had very little problem with Word documents. Most of my use is for spread sheets for political campaigns. I could use a grammar checker from time to time

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. I'll try on the Laptop,

yep for whatever reason running GIMP on the PC it will not do it

(and I am not in the mood of playing with registries)

And no I have not tried that app... but then again I have never used photoshop

I'm pleased as punch with Painter X.5 from Corel, but that is a dedicated art aplication and no other program can do what it can do... dedicated app, yep

I've heard that there is a third party app that will add a grammar checker to your Open Office... but I have yet to find it.

;-)

[alfredo]

91. I had Painter back in the OS 7.5 days. It was pretty good.

If you are used to how GIMP works, no need to get the PS hack.

I will do a google search to see if I can find a grammar checker.

AbiWord has a grammar checker. I am not sure how well Abiword handles fonts. I seem to remember some problems way back when.

http://www.abisource.com/


Some info on grammar checkers

http://lingucomponent.openoffice.org/grammar.html

[susanna]

65. It's true - I have a PC for gaming alone.

The Mac interface seems to lag a little, IMHO. And lagging even a little in gaming, especially first person shooter, is not a good thing.

[susanna]

64. I am a pc gamer too.

But I saved my pennies and bought a Mac for the "other stuff."

I think that was a good choice. Gaming is more difficult on the Mac, that's true. I guess I just don't think you have to be one without the other. My PC screams on most games (because most games are built for them) but my Mac kicks my PC's tush on a lot of other stuff.

Six of one, half-dozen of the other I guess.

[Orsino]

24. I love reviews that begin with an assumption...

...that my needs are the same as the reviewers', and that my experiences and conclusions will be identical. It's just a bonus when they proclaim that because one product is good for them, another must be bad for everyone.

There's no zealotry like new zealotry.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. My only problem is that I use one specifi program heavily

that does not play were with others (aka non win machines) or I would have switched to Linus a while ago.

(and of course a gaming hubby who still believes there are not enough games on the Mac side)

I have to go see if that is still true damn it

[alfredo]

29. Get him a PS3, a Wii, or an XboX. PC games are OK, but I find

the console games much better.

[AptosDem]

32. PC gaming is the best

Consoles are the 'easy mode' of gaming platforms, IMO. Consoles are really lacking in the human interface components. My PC gaming is limited to a particular WWII flight/combat sim. The thought of playing it with one of those funky handheld controllers sends shivers up my spine. I use a joystick/rudder pedal/HOTAS controller package for gaming. You can't get the fine control and quick environmental situational awareness needed using anything but.

PC gaming is much more detailed and immersive, the hardware makers addressed this reality long ago and it shows in the amount of upgrade possibility's for one to choose when making a gaming rig.

Reality in the business world dictates the use of Windows based PC's as the norm. The compatibility issues for a company to venture into a mixed platform arena are just too daunting.

I work in a hotel environment where I may meet the principals and staff of company's such as Cisco, Synmantec, Seagate, Palm....the list goes on forever and not limited to tech company's. One thing they all have in common is their OS for their employees company computers, always Windows. Good or bad, it is what it is. The only time, in my work situation, that a group would have predominately MAC computers is when the group isn't a company but rather a society or association where the bulk of it's members are doctors.

This won't be the first time that the better system or format doesn't capture the market, think beta vs. VHS.

[alfredo]

33. I use consoles for racing games. I use the hand controller, or

the steering wheel/peddle combo. I find it better than keyboard controls.

Much of the artists I know have Macs. The two recording studios I know are Mac based. The political groups I work with are Mac based.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. First welcome to DU

Now what you said is quite true.

We have a PS 2, and the experience of playing online with his buddies on online games if far superior on the PC

Now if I were doing mostly graphics work (that is the other place dominated by Macs) then I would definitely consider upgrading to a Mac

But reality is that the Maping program I use to create the maps for Role Playing games, prevent me fully from using a MAC, or a LINUX machine

I tried... and it definitely does not play well with others and that piece of software is mission critical

I guess in some ways to each its own... and these days the fight is down right funny.

There are things that WIN does better, there are things that Linux does better (as long as you have some understading of what you are doing) and there are things that Mac does better.

But as long as the majority of corprate users use WIN machines, their employees will continue to buy WIN... and as long as some dedicated programs do not work outside of one environment, well I personally am stuck and yes the next machine we buy will probably be a gaming optimized machine, and yes... it will be a VISTA machine...that is the reality

[Elwood P Dowd]

43. How many times does it have to be posted

that Macs can run Windows, Mac OS X, or Linux? Am I missing something here?

[alfredo]

48. Yeah, you forgot BSD.

[Elwood P Dowd]

50. Alfredo, you should post this article and the GD link over on the Mac forum

Maybe our little friend who's handle starts with N will see it. It will stay up several days over there. He will see it eventually, and post that OS X has 100 million flaws based on his favorite little MS website.

[alfredo]

51. I'm too full of free wine and catered goodies provided by

our county party to expend that much energy tonight. We had our awards dinner tonight. It was a night of drinking, eating, shaking hands and recruiting bodies for the governor's race this year. This year they gave roses to us volunteers who did the heavy lifting. I guess the bitching about expensive dinners and awards got to them. A rose is more than enough.

I got a chance to speak to my congressman and I made sure he knew that I want the war to end. My wife told him that she didn't want some pansy-assed non binding resolution.

[Elwood P Dowd]

54. Good for you

Wish I could afford to go do things like that. This wonderful Bush economy and high gas prices keep me from going anywhere unless it's absolutely necessary. The best I can do is give DU a couple of bucks and hope for the best.

[alfredo]

58. I can't give money, so I give time. I try to stay close to home.

My legislative District is as far as I like to travel, but for DFA and the needs of the party, I will roam far and wide.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. What you are missing is that my hubby is YOUR typical user

you know the one that wants to turn on the puiter and just go with it

A double boot machine will drive him absolutely batty

My laptop is a double boot machine, linux \windows, but him... trust me, it will run him batty

I know the user... and that is not going to work, PERIOD

And yes, I know as lomg as the Mac has an INTEL based processor, you can run windows with all its joys and hazards...

[maine_raptor]

73. AptosDem..........I'm with you.

I'm a WWII flight simmer also. Got 2 PCs set up with Cougar HOTAS and peds. I've tried a few of the console "flight sims" and you just cannot do anything close to what you can via a HOTAS.

I also agree that, as far as an computer based gaming rig is concerned, the PC has it all over the MAC. And it's not because of the OS, but simply because you can set up the hardware to match the specs of the game and thus get the best performance for the simming experience.

As far as the PC vs MAC in a work environment, remember the old business saying, "Nobody ever got fired for buying AT&T". As long as the PC/Windows combo is the big guy on the block, they will control the rules of the road.


If you read this, send me a PM and maybe we can meet in the virtual sky sometime. :toast:

[FormerDittoHead]

93. I couldn't imagine playing MechWarrior on a console... Your other observerations are shared.

...that being said, I use Linux most of the time because I know I won't get a virus, etc and it simply never crashes.

I still run Windows on other computers, however, for the full performance with software that simply won't run as well (if at all) on other O/Ss.

[JackRiddler]

27. Switched a year ago from IBM Thinkpad '98 to Powerbook 15" OSX '05

Why do people hate Microsoft?

Constant crashes. Aggressive "updating" and push-marketing behaviors. Spied on by Redmond. Monopolistic, applied blackmail on OEMs to put superior products (DRDOS in the early 1990s) out of business. Software bloat. Stick their ugly name and logo on everything. CONSTANT CRASHES. Software treats you like a dope. I had the best possible notebook machine for it's time, and it's a relief to be gone from it.

Is the Mac that much better?

Design - no contest. Machine looks better, software looks better, less cluttered and corporate. A real pleasure.

Wish the keyboard was as big and well-laid out as the Thinkpad's. Less hotkeys a problem.

Crashes a lot less. Still crashes sometimes - but so far nothing disastrous. I didn't have an MS machine that didn't crash disastrously on a six-month basis.

Software - superior. Interface and quality of the offerings for web design, graphics, video... you can also run MS office so you're really missing very little.

Security - no problems so far.

Speed - obviously faster, as this is a newer model.

Compatibility - everything's instant plug and play. Picks up signals immediately. This may be normal in PCs of recent design, too, I don't know.

Sense of humor in the ads - no contest.

[mondo joe]

44. We switched 2 yrs ago from 1 PC desktop to 2 Mac laptops. It's been a joy.

It's amazing how easy both laptops have been, relative to the 1 PC desktop. No problems with viruses, conflicts, anything. No drivers to delete and reinstall.

:-)

[JackRiddler]

46. Yes, there's the installation matter too

All software operates as soon as it's installed, once.

There seems to never be any question that a 21st-Century peripheral will work as soon as it's connected. (I did lose the use of a 10+ year old laser printer that I didn't even realize was designed for Windows only.)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

37. Ooooooo I just know who'll blow a gasket at this!

Let's just say he doesn't have a fixed residence.

[alfredo]

53. Google and/or other online entity might make

OS's unimportant.

[Ladyhawk]

57. Macs are great if you like both programs they'll run.

Seriously, I would do Linux or Macs (maybe) if they ran games. I use Windows for another reason: I'm a computer tech and Windows breaks. I need to know how to fix it.

[Elwood P Dowd]

61. Again, how many times does it have to be posted

Macs will run Windows. Damn people, wake the fuck up.

[fujiyama]

68. It may run it

but for a comparative cost, the PC's benchmarks will be much superior.

Check out post #60. Depending on the application of use (in this case, gaming), you may face a performance hit.

[Ladyhawk]

77. No, you may face a HUGE performance hit.

Emulation is very CPU-intensive. And how many good video cards are available for Macs?

[fujiyama]

80. I agree with you

I don't really understand the bickering over this "debate". It's likely one of the dumbest things people here get passionate about - I have no problem with Apple but the zealotry of the fanboys is ummmm....irritating as hell. I understand there are applications for the Apple which are very good for media editing. My friend uses Final Cut Pro and it's great for him.

But I don't use that software. And there are certain engineering applications which I use which have no Mac equivalent as well as games.

I hate this notion that since an Apple is great for me, you too must spend several thousand and buy one too.

[Ladyhawk]

81. It's bizarre. I work on PCs.

Yes, Macs are probably really great, but there are some things they will not do. They don't do Windows ;). At least not very well. I'll be the first to admit that Windows break ;)...easily. (Gee, what is it with me and the puns this evening?) The very fact that Windows breaks easily is the reason I'm a PC tech and not a Mac tech. it would be silly for me to own a Mac. If I'm going to fix PCs I need to have one of my own to fix.

Also, I'm a rabid gamer. If I'm going to spend a lot of money on a system (something which is a huge deal for me considering my low, low income), it's going to be something I can run the latest games on. I recently upgraded (first time in ages) and I very much doubt any Mac can run certain games at 1600 X 1200 with all the bells and whistles like my Core 2 Duo system can. This is without overclocking. The only game that doesn't run well at that resolution is F.E.A.R., but it does well at lower resolution with 2X FSAA and looks almost as good as it would at a higher resolution. I can play Doom 3, Far Cry and other graphics-intensive games at 1600 X 1200 and the system doesn't even blink.

I'm planning on overclocking this puppy at some point. Tinkering with Macs...is there such a thing? I love to get up to my elbows in a chassis. I love to tweak and overclock. I'm a hands-on kind of person when it comes to computers. That's why I don't have a laptop, either...besides the point I can't afford one if I'm going to keep my PC fairly up to date. I treat my PC sort of like a mechanic treats his tweaked-out jalopy. He can mess with the jalopy and get it purring like a kitten, but if you gave him one of the latest Japanese cars, even though it's smooth as a baby's butt and runs very well, he couldn't have much fun with it.

My PC is my TV (don't have real TV), my stereo, my word processor, my gaming station, my music composition station, my art workbench. I've been building on it since I got my first PC a decade ago. The only original piece of equipment is the old PRO-160 speakers. (I need to get better sound, but I won't be able to for the forseeable future.) Yes, it gives me headaches sometimes, but it's what fits my lifestyle. So stop telling me I need a Mac. :)

[fujiyama]

82. I use the PC for similar purposes

Less gaming, but more HTPC oriented. It's connected to a projector, and has an HDTV card by ATI. I'd be good with gaming but my video card could be a lot better (but that's my fault for being cheap at the time). Could a Mac do similar things as my HTPC? Sure it could, but I'd have to spend considerably more as well.

I also got the C2D and have overclocked and works very nicely...and has been stable as well. It's a great CPU to tinker around with.

Regarding the car analogy - I have friend that bought an older Honda and souped it up, but he told me that the newer ones are less accessible because of the reliance on electronic sensors and programmed chips...so for those that like to mess with stuff - PCs are much easier.

[walldude]

92. Hey LH.. LTNS! I agree with you both PC and Mac have their benefits

and the reason I use PC's are all laid out in your post. Besides gaming, I am a tinkerer. I like messing with my system. I always have, since the days of trying to free up enough memory in DOS so I could get Sam&Max and Darkseed to run. Mac users want something easy to use that they don't have to mess with. Nothing wrong with that but there is a legion of gamers out there who want to overclock, tweak memory, add hardware and generally tinker with their system. Mac people are Mac people and PC people are PC people, neither is right and neither is wrong.

[Ladyhawk]

76. Excuse me, but emulating Windows is sucky for video games.

Emulation takes a ton of CPU power.

Besides, what kind of video card choice do you have with a Mac? The only decent video cards are made for PCs.

And btw, you're very rude. Welcome to my ignore list.

[Paulie]

87. You're a little behind the Mac world

They run Intel CPU's nowdays. :)

And they can run Windows just fine (but because of the latest EFI bios, you need a min of XP SP2 to boot). Apple provides Windows drivers under the "Bootcamp" name.

The current Mac Pro's are Dual-Dual Core Xeon's (2ghz to 3ghz version) with an option for any of the following video cards:
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB (single-link DVI/dual-link DVI)
2 x NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB
ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)
3 x NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB
4 x NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 512MB, Stereo 3D (2 x dual-link DVI)

Current "consumer" iMac all in one with 24" display has a Core2Duo (2.16 or 2.33) and GeForce 7300 or 7600's.

The Macbook Pro's laptops have Core2Duo's as well with ATI Mobility Radeon X1600.

Macbook (non pro) laptop is a Core2Duo as well, but with Intel integrated graphics.

Check out http://store.apple.com

[Omphaloskepsis]

69. OK, great, a Macintosh isn't for you.

And I don't want a Windows machine until one can run TextMate, CSSEdit, and Final Cut Pro. Oh, and not needing to hire someone to fix would be nice too.

[Swamp Rat]

70. I can't wait for iLife '07

If I had some money.... I REALLY need a shiny new MacBook Pro. :)

[dethl]

71. I have a PowerMac for my general use and a SuSE box for firewall/router/etc...

I have Windows XP installed on my comp at work. I don't enjoy using it much.

[Melynn]

72. Macs? I hate them

Just kidding. Macs are a lot better than Windows.

[EstimatedProphet]

79. Feh

I use windows, but I hate it. Why do I hate it? BECAUSE IT'S MORE LIKE A MAC. DOS at least allowed you to get in and tweak the system if you needed to without having to have a master's degree in computer programming. IMO they left a lot behind when they left DOS behind.

[Bake]

88. My nightmare weekend with Windows V*sta!

See my thread in the Lounge for details ("Windows Vista: Bill Gates, Burn in Hell!"). My wife and I refuse to speak the name V*sta any more.

Try buying a new PC that still runs XP ... next to impossible, but we found one - an Acer Aspire minitower. This thing is the size of a book, but has all the guts of a big clunky tower, and is beautiful to look at besides. Someone obviously was concerned about the visual aspect of DESIGN on this one. And so far, it runs perfectly.

Bake