Father kills three children, himself during routine separation visit

[bleedingheart]

"Shootings linked to sadness of facing a divorce
Father kills three children, himself during routine separation visit
Thursday, February 08, 2007

By Michael A. Fuoco, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Before last weekend, Felicia Riley was dealing well with the changes in her family life and optimistically looking forward to the future.

That all changed in her former home at 320 Mohawk Drive in the Shawnee Point housing plan in Rostraver, where her estranged husband, Daniel L. Riley, 39, shot and killed the couple's three children -- Kate, 8; Michael, 6; and Julia, 4 -- in a second floor bedroom before killing himself."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07039/760199-56.stm


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07039/760433-85.stm

"In hindsight, neighbors had seen some warning signs of a controlling and angry husband. A neighbor said Mr. Riley would say that his wife did not need to be out and her place was at home cleaning. Or he would criticize the way she planted the shrubs. A neighbor also quoted Mrs. Riley as saying that leaving her husband was difficult, "but when it started to move on to the kids, I knew it was time to go."

I am posting this because this story is turning out to be about a controlling husband who was so upset about his pending divorce that he killed his three small kids and himself. Now this bastard has saved us the cost of putting him in jail but what he did was his last ditch attempt at "getting back at his wife"...from news reports in our area, he was a control freak and when he lost control it appears that he wanted to hurt his wife forever.

...why? I realize that this guy probably needed mental help, but for crying out loud...how do you prevent someone who is like this from doing what he did...?

[liberal renegade]

1. what a piece of shit! n/t

[Lerkfish]

2. murder-suicides are always done in the wrong order.

[bleedingheart]

4. you are not kidding...

I just can't help feeling that he wanted to hurt his wife...and he figured this would top anything he would do to her physically...

my friend and I were talking about this last night and we are just so shaken by this case...

[deutsey]

3. One of those threads I wish I hadn't opened. I can't wait t go home

and hug my three children tonight.

:evilfrown:

[kwyjibo]

12. No kidding. It's been a sad day in the news

I'm tired of being at work and reading about it all...

[Katherine Brengle]

19. Right? I know these stories are important, but I do try to avoid them...

It just hurts too damn much to think about people hurting their children.

:(

[Cronus Protagonist]

5. How do you prevent it?

There's not much government can do, but the woman might have made a better choice of a husband - not that she was wrong or culpable in any way, but that's the only way this could have been avoided. I would never get involved with someone who keeps a gun around and/or shows authoritarian or controlling tendencies, never mind have children together.

Of course, hindsight is 20/20 vision and my heart goes out to the children and their mother. What a horrible, despicable thing for that monster to do. For people like him, I hope there is a hell. The mother must be horrified and horribly distraught. The poor children. Damn. There really is no silver lining to this cloud.

[bleedingheart]

6. I guess as an outsider...you want to know what to do..

but then there are the risks to the folks who do want to help..

according to former neighbor's of the couple in New York, this guy actually stared at a neighbor's house for three hours because they had talked to the wife briefly....as a way of intimidating them...so in a way...this guy was always ready to snap...but ethically you can't put him away until he does something to put him in jail...

as you said...there is no silver lining just heartbreak.

[progressivebydesign]

8. Nope. It had nothing to do with "her choice of husband".

Most women finding themselves in that position have NO idea what they got themselves into a first. It grows and festers, and along with it.. when you live with someone like that they beat away verbally and psychologically at your self worth, and you believe that you deserve it. Usually, they isolate you from friends and family, and some really strong women are able to get out, but many stay because they are afraid of what might happen (often these pigs threaten to take the children away because they earn more money), or they convince the wife that she is not worthy of a decent life.

The spouses in these situations have ZERO responsibility for this. ZERO. A close friend of my ex-husband was married to a very prominent man in L.A. They had, what seemed to be, a very perfect relationship, and two beautiful toddlers. When the husband realized that she might leave him, he killed himself and the children. There was no warning that he'd do this. She did not choose him knowing he was capable of this.

The REAL issue is why society seems to ignore the fact of domestic violence? And why our society thinks that violence is the solution to everything? And why our society believes that violence is entertainment?

The woman in this story has lost everything. I cannot even begin to imagine her pain, but having been around my ex's friend during her tragedy, gives me an idea of it.

[blonndee]

28. I'm so sorry for your friend.

How very tragic.

I think this is a question worth exploring also in terms of patriarchal ideas of "ownership."

Just a little theorizing/speculating here, maybe some rambling and definitely worth what one paid for it. It seems like maybe some men who do this have exerted so much energy in trying to assert their ownership of their wife and children that they can't cope with separation or divorce, because to them it's the ultimate "fuck you" and they can no longer continue to delude themselves into thinking they ACTUALLY have that degree of power anymore. So by taking out the children, he is able to engage in the ULTIMATE "fuck you" and reclaim ownership at least of the children, and sometimes the spouse as well. But the man knows he has utterly failed in what he sought to do, and probably in living up to everything he thought patriarchy entailed. Because he realizes his entire effort and way of thinking about himself has been a sham (never, of course, imagining patriarchy itself is the problem) he has no ability to cope, and has never had to learn how to be BRAVE enough or mature enough to cope with this kind of slight and loss. So he kills himself too.

Maybe all too obvious...but I think domestic violence often stems from these types of ideas.

[Cronus Protagonist]

37. It takes me about 5 minutes or less to detect people like that

I do wish the lady involved had the same skills.

[mike_c]

7. I don't think we can prevent it....

People do terrible things to one another, often blinded by their own anger. We're shaped to be that way by our evolutionary history. Note too that the woman involved in this story had three children by the guy, and obviously intended-- at one time-- to remain associated with him. Her actions are just as irrational as his were, and also reflect deep seated human motives that probably don't serve us very well in the modern world.

I don't think there is any way to prevent this kind of occurrance except to be aware of the protential for violence and to avoid relationships with people who get angry about irrational things, attempt to control their SOs, etc.

[gratuitous]

9. I don't know if there's a way to "prevent" these episodes

I don't know how preventable this tragedy was, but I think the way our society is ordered has something to do with it. We are inculcated early on with the idea that violence is an acceptable method for settling differences. For proof, just look at any thread having to do with spanking children, and regardless of where you come down on the question, it's indisputable that spanking is a form of violence.

Building on this bedrock foundation (which is laid so deep many of us aren't even aware it's there) are layers and layers of other things that get in the way. We're reluctant to make blanket government proscriptions -- laws, agencies or programs -- to deal with such matters, because we've deemed it to be meddling too much in people's personal lives.

Men are taught early in their lives, and quite often throughout their lives, that handling their own business by themselves is a significant indicator of manliness. Men who seek help surely damage their status in the community.

Women, too, are given lots of conflicting signals, and a woman who can't "manage" her husband and her family is looked down upon by significant segments of our culture.

There are lots of forces that keep us from banding too closely together, some of them moneyed interests that can sell us stuff that will "protect" us from the untrustworthy "others" in our midst. So when a man like Daniel Riley finally totters off the edge of sanity, we can all be horrified once again. Some of us will go straight home and hug our children, which is good. But a lot more people will buy another lock for the door or another gun for the cabinet, and eye their neighbors and passersby with a little more suspicion.

[not_a_robot]

10. This guy is easily identifiable

He's called an NPD and npd's are naturally sociopaths. Ufortunately most of civilizations takes no exception to such personalities, only individual crimes. No attempt at treatment or any other programs are done primarily because NPD's have a tendance to be in charge of governing bodies, as that is their obsession. This is more of the same, societies trying to maintain the old myths that humans are an exceptional creature unphased by mere earthly influences, so we end up pretending psychological problems as 'not really a problem' and people go about being shocked and reflective when the inevitable comes around.

[riderinthestorm]

16. What's an NPD?

[krispos42]

23. Narcissistic personality disorder, if I had to guess

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

[AlCzervik]

11. why in the hell can't they just kill themselves and not take the kids with them?

i know there is a term for these people this, the ones that take people with them but i can't remember what it is.

[deutsey]

14. I think the term you're searching for is "crazy asshole"

I don't mean to be flippant here, but stories like this really piss me off.

[AlCzervik]

15. i didn't take as flippant.

these stories just make me want to cry.

[deutsey]

18. I know what you mean

As I write this I can hear my three children upstairs watching a movie and I think, my God, what could possibly drive a person to take the lives of their children? I can understand sacrificing YOUR life so that they have a better life, but what could possibly justify doing something like this asshole did?

I just hope it was over quickly for these kids. RIP.

:evilfrown:

[candidate]

13. A gun-owning misogynist?

Sounds like a typical republican voter to me. Too bad about the kids.

[stevedeshazer]

17. I understand in a way, let me tell you why

I'm a bit at risk saying this here since I post here using my real name.

More than a quarter-century ago, I had similar thoughts about killing myself during a vicious separation and divorce. Unlike this guy, however, I never wanted to hurt our precious child, and anyone who knows me would tell you I am far from a controlling man.

But when I discovered the background and actions of my former wife, I spent a long time in a rage, thinking only of how I could hurt her as badly as she hurt me. I slowly realized that any hurt I inflicted would only hurt our child.

This guy didn't make it that far, with tragic results.

I'll bet this guy felt that same rage that comes from betrayal. Or, maybe he imagined it. Who knows?

Today, our daughter is a wonderful young woman and I have made peace with her mother.

We all must learn to forgive before we can advance.

Too bad this guy could not.

Hope I don't get in trouble here for sharing my story.

[bettyellen]

20. you imagine SHE betrayed him? he was ABUSING HER and THE KIDS......

he felt rage why exactly? her fault?

[stevedeshazer]

22. I'm not comparing the two, and I don't imagine she betrayed him.

I think HE imagined it.

I'm trying to explain how it feels to be enraged.

In his sick mind, she betrayed him somehow. That's my opinion. I'm not saying in any way she did. He's an abuser, and I don't in any way condone his actions. I'm trying to explain what I think he felt. Maybe I'm way off base.

Peace.

[bettyellen]

24. i'm sorry, she's already blamed here for choosing this man... i really don't need to hear more

rationalizations.
More study need to go into this male rage thing. Too many women suffer the consequences.
Peace.

[bleedingheart]

26. when my father was married to his first wife he discovered her cheating

in fact...she would have him drive her to town for "shopping"..

while my dad was in a bar, waiting for her to finish her shopping...he overheard a guy at the bar laughing about how a buddy of his was getting some nookie as they were talking...and the best part..was that the doofus drove his wife into town so his buddy could get a piece....didn't take much for my father to figure out he was the doofus.

So he waited...and one day didn't go to work and discovered his wife in the act.

He wanted to kill her...and my father was not a violent man never hit a woman....he felt betrayed...but an older neighbor was there as my dad was arguing with her...and he told my dad..."she isn't worth going to jail over"...at that moment my father just walked away ...

later he met my mother and they lived happily ever after (or as close as they could get to it)

Now both men and women experience that anger...that feeling of being so betrayed and not knowing what to do...and most never act upon it..if anything they joke about it to relieve the stress....

This guy apparently was a control freak and I think that was the difference....

Thank you for sharing your story ....

[stevedeshazer]

33. Thank you for understanding.

Your story made my day.

For what it's worth, I met the love of my life and we have a son and I got over it. And we all get along.

I aired out some dirty laundry today. At least I know one other person understands, besides my wife (20 years) and both my amazing kids.

Peace.

[Beelzebud]

21. What I find sick is the double standard.

A man kill his family and the immediate reaction is that he's a sick fuck who should have only killed himself.

A woman kills her family and she's a poor lost soul in need of help...

[bettyellen]

25. which one is 100X more common than the other? poor misunderstood men!

[Beelzebud]

29. Yeah you're right. Fuck men.

[bettyellen]

30. Why do you need to drum up pity for men? The ones I know do just fine w/out the BS....

it;s a shame you need the pity.

[Beelzebud]

32. You're right. Men deserve no pity. Fuck 'em. I agree.

[bettyellen]

36. why do you need to minimize what happen to this woman with that women do it too BS.....

it's so fucking lame. why can't you just be honest about what the stats show? this woman murder you point to?

So fucking rare everyone can list them by name, Men doing this shit? All too frequent. I don't like it either, but it is what it is.

[bleedingheart]

27. I personally think the guy was mentally ill

do I feel bad for any of the folks who kill their children because they are mentally ill...in one way yes...but in another no..
It doesn't matter to me if they are male or female..

What is really sad is that any of these people didn't get help to prevent them from committing these crimes...

[mainer]

31. Some people aren't ill. They're just mean.

INteresting article about this in the NYT the other day -- by a psychiatrist who said there's no diagnosis for some assholes. Just "meanness".

[bleedingheart]

35. I am going to look for that article...

sounds interesting

[blonndee]

34. Come on...women who do this are usually branded "psycho bitches"

just like guys who do it. Okay--there may be some difference, I'll admit, in the way people initially react, but I think it probably has to do with our not really expecting it to occur as frequently among women, so when a woman kills her child we TEND to think something MUST be mentally off. I don't really think it's a double standard, because violent crimes do tend overwhelmingly to be committed by men. So it doesn't exactly work to equate the two.