Pervert Pervert Pervert Pervert PERVERT!

[NashVegas]

When did so many Democratic Underground users start putting on corsets and lace? When did we start covering our ankles and our wrists and bosoms? Democratic Underground, where 1/4 of a single forum is devoted to seeing what sexual references they can get across before the mods will kill a thread?

Is it so difficult to enjoy a sex scandal for what it is?

It did its job - the scandal did its job and another anti-gay rights, so-called Family Values politician took a tumble out of office. He'll probably be replaced by another but it doesn't matter. What we have is one more incident to show Republican "values" voters that they have been whipped into a frenzy and used for 20 years. What we have is *maybe* a new person in his place who will be a little less vulnerable to blackmail.

Larry Craig has a human failing, like all of us have failings, only he had further to fall. I'm delighted.

[Poiuyt]

1. Tee hee, you said bosoms

[NashVegas]

3. Oh You Poor Dear

Allow me to pass you the smelling salts.

[Whoa_Nelly]

2. Well put, Crisco

Thanks!

[NashVegas]

4. Glad to Be

Of service.

Do we need a DU Shameless Hussies Brigade?

[Whoa_Nelly]

36. It would be a great group, no doubt!

Just like those Shameless Hussies who came before us



We must continue the Fight for our right to be Hussies!

[madeline_con]

5. Are there no naysayers among the Repugs....

saying it was all a left-wing set-up? A conspiracy to run a great guy out of office...



:nopity:

[NashVegas]

7. Interesting Point, That

You think they would have already, wouldn't you?

[question everything]

43. Oh yes, Tom DeLay and Bob Stein

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1714397

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

6. The word "pervert" is worthless.

I don't use that word anymore.

If describing those who molest children, or are rapists, or are involved in sexual slavery, I use the word CRIMINAL.

MKJ

[NashVegas]

8. In Modern Usage, I Agree

I feel that most people who would ordinarily use the term (as opposed to those who seem to only recently re-discovered the missionary position) are so indoctrinated away from stepping out of bounds, they wouldn't understand the full scope.

[TomInTib]

9. When you got 'em in the gutter, grab them by the hair...

put their face on the curb and stomp on the back of their collective heads.

Light 'em up.

[backscatter712]

10. Larry Craig's failing isn't that he's gay, it's that he's a hypocritical prick

who took a hoist by his own petard.

[NashVegas]

11. Oh Course, You Are Correct

Now, let's all burn our copies of 9 1/2 Weeks, shall we?

[jumptheshadow]

12. Bravo!

>>Is it so difficult to enjoy a sex scandal for what it is?

It did its job - the scandal did its job and another anti-gay rights, so-called Family Values politician took a tumble out of office. He'll probably be replaced by another but it doesn't matter. What we have is one more incident to show Republican "values" voters that they have been whipped into a frenzy and used for 20 years. What we have is *maybe* a new person in his place who will be a little less vulnerable to blackmail.<<

What we have is one more blow to the Republican lie machine, delivered in a way that will resonate for a long, long time. Can you imagine them daring to make gays the scapegoat of another election, when there are so many delicious film clips piling up for a counterattack?

[NashVegas]

13. Oh, That's a Great Point

At least for those states that are normally very wedgable, where this has happened.

[Maven]

14. "one more incident to show Republicans they have been used"

Don't be so sure.

Did the Ted Haggard scandal change a thing about the antigay Christian fundamentalist movement? Of course not. They simply swept him under the rug and declared him "cured." Dogma trumps reality. Of course, if these people had any respect for reality, they wouldn't believe 80% of the shit they do to begin with.

Likewise, if you think that a Republican who hates GLBTs and is turned off by Craig because of his homosexuality is going to vote for a Democrat who supports gay rights, you're not thinking things through. Rather, that Republican is more likely to see Craig as a "pervert" who infiltrated the party and has since been purged. They'll see Craig as the problem, not the closet or their own hatred of GLBTs. Ideology trumps reality again. If anything, their disgust for Craig will only reinforce the hatred they feel toward gay people.

Like I said on another thread, enjoy the Craig scandal if you want. He's a total fuckhead and he deserves nothing but ridicule. And BELIEVE ME, no one hates him more than GLBT people--because when sleazeballs like him get caught with their pants down, literally, WE ALL take shit as a minority, in addition to whatever damage he did as an antigay legislator. It's insult added to injury. But don't think for a second that bringing down this particular sleazeball is going to stop the machine that made him and that he was a part of. That will only happen when we stand up unequivocally against their ideas, including homophobia, and stand up for equality.

[NashVegas]

16. Progress, Darling

Twenty years ago, we couldn't have a nationwide gay sex scandal.

Have you seen the vids they found from 1982, from when Larry called a press conference to announce something along the lines of, if I may go on a tangent and use an old punch line, "if that sheep says anything about me, it's a damned lie."

I'm old enough that I would remember if that turned into a major huge brouhaha like this has. IIRC, that one went away as quietly and quickly as possible.

I think a Republican or two who hates GLBTs has been given some reasons to re-evaluate the impact of forcing someone to stay in the closet, and see that it hurts more than one person at a time.

[Maven]

21. Progress for whom?

Like I said before, having behavior like Craig's exposed is only likely to reinforce stereotypes for those who harbor them, not prompt them to question said stereotypes.

"I think a Republican or two who hates GLBTs has been given some reasons to re-evaluate the impact of forcing someone to stay in the closet, and see that it hurts more than one person at a time."

I'd like to think so, but that's simply not likely. In order for these people to evaluate the impact of the closet, homophobia, etc., they'd first have to acknowledge that gay people don't deserve to be hated for being gay. That isn't likely to happen in a scandal where a Senator has been disgraced in circumstances connected to his homosexuality. Of course, some good could be made of this situation--if progressive leaders, for instance, made just the sort of statement you did in that excerpt I quoted. :)

[NashVegas]

24. But It Still Forces People To Think About It

And think about how they'd deal with it if/when someone in their circle comes out.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

[Maven]

27. Heh!

Fair enough. :)

[TahitiNut]

15. I spend less time looking at a standing rib roast before buying than Craig did peeping.

He was peeping - for his own gratification. He played footsie - for his own gratification. He reached into the adjacent stall - for his own gratification.

He knew NOTHING about the other human being - other than he apparently met Craig's criteria for self-gratification. There was NO 'consensual relationship' - both because there was no consent and there was no relationship. What there was was a violation of another human being's privacy by an individual who lacked ANY appreciation or respect for that other human being's values or interests. I refuse to even believe Craig gave a damn about 'consent' - except insofar as an objection might cause Craig to get caught. But Craig had "Plan B" - his Senate business card and POWER.

It's not about Craig's sexual orientation. His sexual orientation is irrelevant. It's not even about hypocrisy. It's about a self-loathing asshole with an addiction or compulsion to get sexual self-gratification without the slightest respect for either himself or others. He was looking for some receptacle for his ejaculation very much like one selects a urinal for one's urination or a toilet for one's defecation. It was the objectification of both himself and another human being. In my book, that's perverted.

It's perverted in the same sense that Junior stood on a pile of the remains of the 9/11 victims with a bullhorn - for his own gratification. In my book, that's perverted. His sexual orientation is irrelevant.

[NashVegas]

20. I Think He Assumed. Perhaps, Too Much

Well, obviously too much, or he'd not have been arrested.

"He played footsie - for his own gratification."

I'm going to be a semi wise-ass here: we don't know that, because he was never given the opportunity to explicitly state what he wanted.

"There was NO 'consensual relationship' - both because there was no consent and there was no relationship."

I believe it's safe to assume he was looking for consensual sex. It is not unusual in this day and age to have one without the other.

TN, I loves ya you know it, but I see all too much of this "pervert" outrage and I've spent too much time around heterosexual men - and "discreet" homosexual men in and out of relationships - to not know what the average guy would do in a semi-public space if he had the audacity.

I think it's a load of bull.

PS - I can never decide a roast in under two minutes. How you do it?

[TahitiNut]

22. "I can never decide a roast in under two minutes. How you do it?"

Well, I go to a good shop where it hasn't been handled too much. :evilgrin:

[NashVegas]

25. Neener Neener

:drumroll:

[Tsiyu]

30. Amen

In our family, we have all sorts of colors and orientations of people.

I can promise without a doubt that the gay couple I'm closest to in the family are ten times more prudish than I am. I'm pretty sure they thought I was a bad parent for allowing my kids to hang around some polyamorous folks we all know.
They refused to hang around them any more when some of the the polys insited on attending campouts au natural.

Personally i have no problem with kids seeing nudity. i'd rather they see that than gratuitious violence. But I was looked down upon by my cousins for that parental decision. My mother still uses it against me to this day, and the only way she culd have known was from my cousins.

And i can assure you they would view Craig's actions as perverted. They are monogamous and responsible and boring. They would not see this as a gay issue at all, any more than they saw the polys as having any "right" to their nudity by virtue of their orientation.

The Craig issue has nothing to do with teh gay. I am glad another hypocrite has been exposed.

But that's just my opinion. As a straight female. So pile on now......*dons flamesuit once again*

[TahitiNut]

33. There's only one reason I climbed off the "hypocrisy" bandwagon.

I'm fairly certain that Craig deeply detests that part of himself that drives him - a compulsion - to seek furtive, anonymous self-gratification in a semi-public place that's 'away from home' and requiring no records or prior arrangement. I suspect he was looking to get fellated and seriously doubt he was interested in reciprocating. His concern for anyone else doesn't extend even that far.

He's self-loathing as well as outwardly hateful of others. That's not "hypocrisy" in my book. If anything, it's gross and twisted overcompensation.

The ONLY reason I claim he's entitled to wear the label of 'pervert' is his disgusting objectification of other human beings. Even as a hopelessly hetero male, I enjoy oral sex - both ways - and have had sexual relations in semi-public places. But I've NEVER used a woman to "get off" -- because I'm wired to care. I just cannot countenance treating others with such gross disregard for WHO they are - particularly sexually.

Now, even though it's (literally) "making love" to me, that doesn't mean I don't realize there's quite a range of mutually consenting motives. But Craig didn't even care to know the other person enough to determine consent itself before he peeped, footsied, and reached. That's a perversion in my book. He should've kept to inflatables.

[krispos42]

32. Craig took the bait

The cop was sitting, clothed and motionless in a stall. He met Craig's eye at least one, because the cop knew what color it was.

Now I wouldn't think "he's cruising for gay sex" if I happened to notice a guy stitting in a stall not doing his business. A few other possibilities come to mind, such as flying anxiety or trying to recover from saying a tearful goodbye to a loved one.

Anonymous gay bathroom sex (until now, at least) would not even have occured to me.

But it was on Craig's mind, and Craig saw in it what he wanted to see into it, that the officer was waiting for an offer by someone "in the know".

If the officer had been there, pants around his ankles and dropping a deuce, Craig would not have done what he did.

[TahitiNut]

34. Too much conjecture for my taste.

I've seen nothing about whether or not the cop had his pants down. And I've seen nothing to indicate Craig wanted anything other than to get a blow-job ... and even that's conjecture. It's enough (legally) that he peeped, footsied, and reached. There's no question that he had SOME objective ... but it sure as hell wasn't to GOTV or form a lasting relationship.

[6000eliot]

17. I do believe I'm getting the vapors!

[mondo joe]

18. Well said, Crisco.

:toast:

[JVS]

19. I blame the anti-porn crusaders for bringing Victorian sensibilities to the lounge

[Chovexani]

23. The DU Pearl Clutcher Brigade is out in force

Someone has to protect the children from us deviant queers.

(And I'll point out some of us like corsets and lace because they're sexy. :evilgrin:)

[NashVegas]

29. Does That Mean You

must protect yourself from yourself?

Too confusing. I'm off to sleep on it.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

26. Excuse me? Larry Craig didn't have a "human failing"

Larry Craig was using PUBLIC bathrooms (not HIS bathroom) to have sex in. In these PUBLIC bathrooms he was peeking thru the stall at people. He was touching their feet. He was evidently trolling for sex. What exactly is the purpose of defending this behavior? This behavior is reprehensible in a man, in a woman, in a straight, in a gay, in a bisexual, in ANYONE! You want sex? Go home and have sex. Don't have a partner? Go find one in a bar. Sheesh. I'm not quite understanding this intense defense of having sex in PUBLIC bathrooms! I'm not sure I understand the need to defend such a behavior!

[NashVegas]

31. Been To Any Rock Concerts Lately? New Orleans for Carnival?

I'm not defending Craig's behavior, no, I'm happy to gloat over the scandal, really, and feel no need to pretend that he wasn't trying to do anything other men haven't tried to do for decades. If there were more unisex bathrooms in nightclubs, I'd have no doubt there would be more hook-ups there, as well.

I'm merely stating the fact:

People with chutzpah get away with semi-public sex all the time. Some get busted, some don't.
Most adults are aware of this.

It's not new, it IS illegal, but some people are willing to risk illegal under certain circumstances.

In the future we WILL see more of these scandals. If outrage is the *only* way to react in order to take the proper political advantage of it, some of us are going to burn-out more swiftly than others.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

39. Are you saying that if someone had illicit sex on the planet, this guy was entitled to break laws??

WTF? Why are you grasping at straws to defend such reprehensible behavior?

[NashVegas]

41. I Don't Believe

I'm the one who's doing the grasping, Ma'am.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

42. then look in the mirror. I have no intention on forgiving a Repuke anything.

He's done a lot of harm. Don't expect me to pat him in the back and say, "Oh you POOR POOR dear!"

[Norrin Radd]

38. What's really bad was, in the report I read, that he also didn't bother to flush.

That is unpardonable, in my estimation. I hate being the next person in the stall after that.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

40. LOL! :) nt

[Terran]

28. Well said

I never heard the word pervert tossed around so much. What Craig did, millions of men have done, and they aren't all perverts. Period.

[CatWoman]

35. Crisco

thank you so very fucking much!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NashVegas]

37. You Are So

Very welcome.