A great post from a reader at Lawyers Guns and Money on the Craig arrest.

[Hamlette]

"Given the constant, daily harassment women endure (come on now, don't tune out; stay with me, here) -- harassment that makes us compress our daily activities into daylight hours, that circumscribes where we go, who we go with, and even what we wear; intrusive harassment, ruin-your-day, make-you-feel-powerless/angry/depressed harassment -- the overzealous prosecution of the toe-tapper really pisses me off. It's like those sophomore discussions one has of human trafficking, in which someone invariably says "but what about the men?", and then the rest of the discussion, in some form or another, is overwhelmingly preoccupied with those minority cases. Heaven forfend we don't keep men front and center, even if it makes lousy Bayesians of us all.

Look: if there'd been groping, a physical risk, or even just a persistent advance in the face of a single "no" (which doesn't seem to have ever been uttered), I'd be supportive regardless of the gender base-rates involved. But "he tapped his foot and looked at me funny"? Please! Men! Grow a pair!"

http://subcontinentaldrift.blogspot.com/2007/08/on-playing-footsie-with-cops.html

Read the whole thing, its great. Kodos for a great post, whoever you are!

[havocmom]

1. Sure a lot of RW pundit talking points bantered about here on this matter

Lots of attempts to use standard liberal issues to frame the Craig stunt as some sort of attack on gays or disregard of women.

Gotta make more cookies.

[Missy Vixen]

2. Nobody wants to be harassed

I can only look at it from the POV of a middle-aged heterosexual female, because I am one. I liked what the blog writer had to say. "Tapped his toe and looked at me funny"? Let's face it, I am no stunning beauty, and I left "chubby" about 100 pounds ago. Here's a few of my experiences.

How about "grabbed me and made obscene comments", or "came to the door to sell something, I politely said "No, thank you," and he propositioned me"?

Julie

[asthmaticeog]

3. Bullshit. Sorry. But bullshit.

"He tapped his foot and looked at me funny" is a major understatement of a critical aspect of the legal case against Craig, though I'll certainly allow that it may not have been a deliberate one. Craig stared at a stranger on the shitter for two minutes through the tiny gap between the stall and the door. Right now, right where you're sitting, count to 120. That's well beyond just a "funny" look. That's massively invasive no matter what the gender or orientation of the perpetrator.

[Hamlette]

6. he was three feet away, wasn't he? When he peered through the crack in the door.

2 minutes is a long time but 3 feet is not like the KO reenactment either.

The woman's point was not that Craig should have gotten off or what he did was okay, its just that women put up with it all the time and we get made fun of when we complain. We've learned to live with it.

[mondo joe]

7. Women are not expected to put up with people looking into their bathroom stalls or

changing rooms.

There is a legitimate expectation of privacy in those settings.

Public vs Private. Think about it.

[asthmaticeog]

10. That's not the point I was trying to refute.

Of course women put up with it all the time, and fuck no, they shouldn't have to. But misstating an important fact so as to trivialize it, thus making it easier to attack, is called a straw man argument, and when someone makes one, it's a red flag for bullshit.

By the way, three feet is really close. Stare at something 3 feet away from you for two minutes. Still no biggie? Then spend two minutes pretending that it's staring at you. And that you're on a public toilet.

[Demit]

4. Er, there was no prosecution of the case, because Craig pled guilty.

Craig could have gone to court. That would have been the place to argue vigorously that he was being prosecuted overzealously. But he didn't. One has to ask why. The reason why is very central. He's no victim.

[mondo joe]

5. What a line of BS.

A bathroom stall is not a public space - there is a reasonable assumption of privacy.

Getting hit on in public is not the same.

[Hamlette]

9. but when men are found peering in women's rest rooms its "boys will be boys"

and actually, there is no legal expectation of privacy in a public restroom. You might expect it but you have no right, under the law, to privacy there.

What Craig did was wrong but I think this "oh my god it's completely creepy" attitude is way off base. As the poster said, grow a pair. We all had to.

When you think about what humanity has done and continues to do to counter/put up with men's sexual advances (burka anyone?) you have to know that some of us don't get why men (think Carlson Tucker and his ilk) freak out by having a guy make even an aggressive pass at you.

As the poster said at the end of her post:

(5) In much the same way that it's a shame the OJ case involved framing a guilty man, it's unfortunate that they're unjustly smearing a guy who so richly deserves to be taken down.

I derive comfort from the way the cop's meticulous narrative continues: "he exited the cubicle...without flushing."

If they want to arrest, sentence, and bring him up on Ethics charges on that basis, I'm cool with it.

[asthmaticeog]

11. If you think that it's "boys will be boys" when men are caught peeping,

you need to be making the acquaintance of a better class of men. Because that's only true of the creepiest idiots.

[TahitiNut]

13. Agreed.

It's even creepy (and wrong!) when it's adolescents.

[mondo joe]

14. When has that been the case? Seriously.

There are peeping tom laws.

[Mandate My Ass]

8. Sorry. Apples and oranges IMO.

Peering into a stall is invasive and creepy though not illegal AFAIK. However, public restroom sex and cruising for it, is illegal. Period. He was trying to engage in illegal activity in a place which was known for this particular brand of activity and got busted.

Sexual harassment of women has no place in this discussion even though I believe it's a topic that has never been handled in a constructive, public manner.

[BlooInBloo]

12. Um, that's a stupid fucking comment by the person at the other site.