Been to a library lately? Was it a Carnegie library?

[hootinholler]

Late in life Carnegie spent his fortune building libraries across the nation, knowing it would soften the impact of his legacy in history...

Sing ho, for we know you, Carnegie;
God help us and save us, we know you too well;
You're crushing our wives and you're starving our babies;
In our homes you have driven the shadow of hell.
Then bow, bow down to Carnegie,
Ye men who are slaves to his veriest whim;
If he lowers your wages cheer, vassals, then cheer. Ye
Are nothing but chattels and slaves under him.
- 2nd verse, "A Man Named Carnegie," anonymous, California, 7 July 1892

The above is from an interesting essay about what the early labor movement was going through at the time.

In tribute to labor, we have been in the clutches of the robber barons before. We shrugged off the yoke of wage slavery for a time. It is now time once again to push the pendulum back, organize!

-Hoot

[lonestarnot]

1. Truly one of our answers!

:applause:

[niyad]

2. my local library is a carnegie library,, currently undergoing renovation. I despise the robber

baron, but do appreciate the libraries that he gave in an attempt to salve his conscience.

[JDPriestly]

3. The rich man's answer to poverty: Lift thyself up, imbecile.

Sorry to be a spoilsport, but this post seems inappropriate today.

Rich men chide the poor for being uneducated. Today, however, education is not all that relevant. Many Americans, well educated and ignorant alike, are unemployed, underemployed or way underpaid thanks to trade policies that pit the cost of American labor against that in developing countries.

"Experts" point to statistics that show that well educated people make more money than poorly educated people. Those statistics do not reflect the fact that while some educated people pull six and seven figure salaries that pull up the averages, many well educated people drift along unable to find anything that pays well. They also do not reflect the fact that the right wage is under Republican economic theory is the wage of the last available worker, meaning that an employer does not need to pay more to labor than it can pay to the last worker available to work. As long as we worship market economics and do not intervene to ensure justice, wages will continue their downward spiral. Educated people may continue to earn "more," but their "more" will buy less and less.

Carnegie endowed libraries out of a feeling of guilt. Today, the rich send their children to private schools, refuse to pay the taxes needed adequately to fund public schools and then complain that children aren't learning. Labor day celebrates all kinds of work. Maybe we should have a separate Education Day, but today is not about learning, it's about labor. Labor should be adequately rewarded regardless of the education level of the worker. Every person =who works should earn a livable wage and should be able to live in dignity until a natural death. That is what we should focus on today, not education but labor.

[hootinholler]

4. Um are we in violent agreement?

Especially, re-read my last paragraph. The point of the OP was to point out that we have been here before and we can surmount it.

The tactics are less immediately lethal than those used a Homestead, but are killing us nonetheless.

:shrug:

-Hoot

[JDPriestly]

10. Not violent but agreement yes.

[hootinholler]

12. Then why inapropriate today? n/t

[JDPriestly]

16. The thought of Carnegie on Labor Day is just too depressing to bear

even if he did fund libraries.

[TwilightGardener]

5. Growing up in Pittsburgh, I was always grateful for Carnegie's influence

on the city--a lot of what Pittsburgh is today was due to him (and Mellon, and Frick). Wealthy robber barons maybe, and not sympathetic to their millworkers, but they certainly repaired their legacies with philanthropy. Will always cherish my memories as a Pitt student, cutting class to stroll through the Carnegie Library and Museum--I salute you, Andrew Carnegie.

[hootinholler]

6. Growing up in coal country just east of Pittsburgh I couldn't disagree more with you.

These people hell bent on profit caused so much strife across the nation, no number of libraries and museums, however grand, can repair that.

-Hoot

[TwilightGardener]

8. If somebody does SOME good with his life and his wealth, then I don't

write him off as a bad person. Carnegie was a complex man--nobody is black-and-white. I can acknowledge his greed, ruthlessness and anti-labor sentiment as an industrialist, while still appreciating the wealth, culture, and generosity that he gave to the city in which many of those mill workers resided.

[hootinholler]

9. Had he not resorted to murder, I might agree.

Nothing he could have done would atone for what he ordered his goons to do.

-Hoot

[TwilightGardener]

14. I assume you're referring to the Homestead riot. It was Frick, not Carnegie, that

called in the guards that ended up in bloodshed--it was an out-of-control mob situation. Carnegie carried a lot of guilt about it anyway. He made some bad decisions, but I don't think the general consensus among historians is that he's a murderer.

[HereSince1628]

7. But this time the robber barons have implemented a new version of Swift's Modest Proposal

In this proposal the livelihoods of the working class are fed to the poor of other countries and American poor get left to eat their baby-boom grand-parents.

[angrycarpenter]

11. education is no longer the great divide

the internet is. Many of our most vulnerable people have little knowledge of how the net works.

[alfredo]

13. No matter the reason, I have enjoyed the many hours spent in

the Carnegie Libraries. I know he was an asshole, but it is better he gave the libraries to us, instead of not. Not many of the new Robber Barons give anything back to their country. Bill Gates didn't until he needed some good PR during his anti trust suit. And then it was his wife that pushed him to give, even if the gifts had strings attached.

sometimes a twinge of guilt, or the desire to cleanse their legacy, pushes a person to do the right thing for his fellow man. We must encourage this, but never turn our backs to or completely trust the robber baron bearing gifts. We should never forget that they only do it because they see something in it for them.

[mainer]

15. What is your problem with libraries?

At least Carnegie was able to feel guilt, and tried to mitigate it. A lot of billionaires feel no guilt whatsoever.