There are issues other than the war that are important to me

[cali]

There's the Supreme Court, health care, reshaping foreign policy, fixing the Justice department and federal judges- just to name a few.
That's why I see increasing the margin of dems in Congress as vital. That's why I'll vote for a dem presidential candidate even though I know none of them will end the war immediately.

There are so many things that need to done after all these years of bushco and repuke control

250+ dems in the House and 55 dems in the Senate will make a difference, even if they won't completely transform the landscape.

[Zodiak]

1. Just getting D's isn't good enough

It depends on which kind of D's you get. There are many D's who vote with Republicans more than Democrats and actively undermine debate before it even begins by arm-twisting the leadership into capitulation. We have seen this time and again this year. These are Democrats we do not need for they do more damage to us than the Republicans do.

Other than that, I see what you are saying.

[cali]

2. No there aren't. I can't think of a single dem who votes

with the repukes more often with the dems. And the greater the majority the more the dinos will fall in line- particularly if there's a dem president. Creating a workable majority will change the dynamics. And the dem party is always going to diverse.

[Zodiak]

4. Really?

I have done an analysis of our Senate on the big issues and nominations in the entire 109th Congress, and I come up with some pretty scary numbers.

On these issues:

Condi confirm (nay)
Gonzales Confirm (nay)
class action law (nay)
bankruptcy bill (nay)
confirm negroponte (nay)
energy bill (nay)
CAFTA (nay)
CAFTA (2nd vote) (nay)
ohiovote (no to certification, 5 points for at least giving a speech)
firearm manufacturer immunity (nay)
confirmation of radical judges (gang of 14 = 5 pts, voting for one or more of these judges 0)
tax relief act of 2005 (tax cuts for rich) (nay)
deficit reconciliation act (spending cuts for poor) (nay)
Alito cloture (nay)
Alito nomination (nay)
Tax cut protection (favor the rich) (nay)
Extend Patriot Act (nay)
Raise limit on public debt (nay)
Flag burning Amendment (nay)
US-Oman FTA (nay)
Roberts Confirmation (nay)
Gates' confirmation (nay)
Atomic cooperation w/ India (nay)
Border Fence (nay)
Military Commissions act (nay)
Pension protection act (nay...not sure about this one, actually..Feingold and Boxer voted nay)
Gulf of Mexico Energy Security Act (nay)
Child Insterstate Abortion Notification Act (nay)
Stem Cell Enhancement Act (yeah)


Which covred the entire 109th Congress, I scored the votes of our Democrats in the Senate, and here is their percentages with voting for the "progressive" position (how th typical DUer would vote, basically).


Harkin (Iowa) 82.75862069
Boxer (California) 82.75862069
Feingold (Wisconsin) 82.75862069
Kennedy (Massacheusetts) 77.5862069
Corzine (New Jersey) now Gov. 76.66666667
Lautenberg (New Jersey) 75.86206897
Durbin (Illinois) 75.86206897
Akaka (Hawaii) 75.86206897
Sarbanes (Maryland) 72.4137931
Kerry (Massacheusetts) DLC 70.68965517
Leahy (Vermont) 70.68965517
Levin (Michigan) 68.96551724
Mikulski (Maryland) 68.96551724
Reed (Rhode Island) 68.96551724
Biden (Deleware) 67.24137931
Dodd (Connecticut) 65.51724138
Wyden (Oregon) 65.51724138
Dayton (Minnesota) 65.51724138
Obama (Illinois) 63.79310345
Bayh (Indiana) DLC 60.34482759
Murray (Washington) 60.34482759
Schumer (New York) DLC 58.62068966
Inouye (Hawaii) DLC 56.89655172
Bingaman (New Mexico) 56.89655172
Dorgan (North Dakota) DLC 55.17241379
Reid (Nevada) 55.17241379
Byrd (West Virginia) 55.17241379
Clinton (New York) DLC 53.44827586
Menendez (New Jersey) DLC 50
Cantwell (Washington) DLC 48.27586207
Stabenow (Michigan) DLC 46.55172414
Kohl (Wisconsin) DLC 44.82758621
Feinstein (California) DLC 44.82758621
Leiberman (Connecticut) DLC 44.82758621
Rockefeller (West Virginia) 41.37931034
Conrad (North Dakota) DLC 41.37931034
Baucus (Montana) DLC 39.65517241
Carper (Deleware) DLC 34.48275862
Johnson (South Dakota) DLC 31.03448276
Lincoln (Arkansas) DLC 31.03448276
Salazar (Colorado) DLC 24.13793103
Pryor (Arkansas) DLC 22.4137931
Nelson (Florida) DLC 20.68965517
Landrieu (Louisianna) DLC 17.24137931
Nelson (Nebraska) DLC 3.448275862

You may argue with my methodology applying to everyone here's political beliefs, but they do apply to mine. According to my idea of how a Democrat should be, ALMOST HALF of the Democrats are not there for us more than 50% of the time.

By the way, Lincoln Chafee scored 30% on my scale, so many Democrats voted worse than he did.

So I have a hard time with the meme that you cannot thnk of ONE Democrat that votes with the pukes most of the time. I've done the math for my beliefs, and according to that scale, you are dead wrong.

[noamnety]

3. If we continue funding the war

we can't afford to fix the health care problems in this country.

Also, I believe it's racist and nationalistic to put our health care problems above the ones we are creating in Iraq. It's not acceptable to treat people for free here and pat ourselves on the back for it, while we are blowing the limbs off people and poisoning them for generations to come with cancer-causing toxins over there.

They aren't separate issues.

[cali]

6. Bwahahaha

Sorry, that's just bullshit to say that putting our health care problems above the ones we created in Iraq is racist and nationalistic. And of course I didn't say that. I said it's important. And if you're ill or dying or loved on is ill or dying because of no health care, it damn well is critical. Health care is a critical issue. So are many other things. And who are you to decide what other peoples' priorties should be? Just ugh. And yeah, everything's connected but if you can't see beyond that you're just as limited as those that insist nothing is connected.

Nothing like a heaping helping of bullshit in the morning.

[noamnety]

10. I haven't said health care isn't critical

So perhaps you meant to reply to a different post. (?)

I've said it's unrealistic to think we can solve the health care problems here without ending the occupation there. It's AS unrealistic as any logic the republicans are using - "if we teach abstinence, teens won't get pregnant."

On top of that, I've said it's immoral, racist and nationalistic to care more about restoring the health of an American child than the fact that we are creating a health care crisis in Iraq.

1. Do no harm
2. Fix the harm that's been done.

If you flip those priorities and add nationalities into it, you are putting saving American lives above not taking foreign lives. I'm surprised you think it's "bullshit" to see how racism and nationalism and ethics play into it. Personally, I can't vote for a racist/nationalistic candidate.

If you can, if you vote for someone who is willing to continue funding a genocide overseas because they've convinced you it isn't a genocide, or they've convinced you they can solve your health care problems while bankrupting the country, well ... go for it, I guess.

[OneBlueSky]

5. the other issue of global importance is reversing environmental devastation . . .

which means strictly regulating mega-corporations and their actions . . . I haven't seen any Democrats, other than Al Gore, give this issue the high priority, in-depth attention that it requires if we are to survive as a nation, or even as a species . . .

[cali]

7. Absolutely.

But it's actually going to take global cooperation- particularly with India and China to actually make an impact. And I'd need to know what strictly regulating mega corporations actually means.

[mod mom]

8. Corporate control over our government and election fraud are biggies with me.

[Rydz777]

9. The Iraq occupation, if it is permitted to continue, will suck

the oxygen out of any domestic agenda. It is critical to the success of the next Democratic President that that debacle be ended before March 2009. Out NOW.

For the longer term, we have a very long list of domestic needs. I worry most about the on-going de-industrialization of our economy, the dismantling of the work of generations. We are told not to worry, that the jobs will be in hi-tech service industries. Then we learn that the iPhone is made in China, that China produces 600,000 new engineers every year and we produce only 60,000.

We are deluding ourselves and we need to face reality. I just don't know what it is going to take to wake us up. Maybe the one silver lining in the eight disastrous Bush years will be that he leaves things in such a mess that we have no choice but to come to grips with what needs to be done.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. I understand but the war is #1 with me

Something about needless death and destruction makes it the most important issue facing us as Democrats and as a nation.

[BeFree]

12. Impeachment

Balls

If we truly believe that bushco is destroying this country then we must begin a fight to the end. If however you don't think bushco is that bad then you are willing to compromise and go along to get along.

Impeachment is the beginning of a fight to the end and those that profess a will to impeach are those who think bushco needs to be beaten back into the ground, as impeachment is the way to do just that.

However, if you are against impeachment then you must be one of those who don't think bushco is all that bad and should remain in power

People appreciate doing what must be done to get to the goal and is why they love the pubbies so much.... the pubbies let nothing get in their way of total domination

Dems on the other hand are doubted because we are not willing to do the hard work necessary

Pubbies have dragged this country into an overseas war

But Dems won't even lift a finger to begin the war to get rid of bushco

[sandnsea]

13. A 6-8 month orderly withdrawal

I'm not sure what your objection to that is. It takes that long to get the troops out.