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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 04:45 PM
Original message
Attacking Iran based on “Fake Incidents” –an Insider Blows the Whistle – “Scoop”/Collins
Edited on Sun Feb-11-07 05:04 PM by autorank
Thanks to althecat & “Scoop” for the great effort on this. When a former Carter National Security Adviser and the first Director of the Trilateral Commission says we’re going to war in Iran based on bogus incidents, we’re in trouble. This is a great story that confirms what we’ve known all along, the White House has a “rigged game” going to justify foreign adventures.


http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0702/S00079.htm

Brzezinski Considers Possible Paths To War With Iran

CONSPIRACY THEORY GOES MAINSTREAM ON THE ROAD TO TEHERAN


The Rationale for War


Distribution via the Unanswered Questions Wire
http://www.unansweredquestions.org/


“…a terrorist act in the U.S. blamed on Iran…”
Zbigniew Brzezinski 02 Feb 2007


By Michael Collins
“Scoop” Independent News
Washington, D.C.


The National Security Advisor to former President Carter testified before the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations on 1 Feb 2007. Dr.Zbigniew Brzezinski delivered a scathing assessment of the core mistakes made by the Bush administration in the Middle East. Just before describing what he termed the mythical historical narrative of the policy, he offered a scenario that the Bush administration might use as a convenient invitation to attack Iran.

War may result fromIraqi failures at governance attributed to Iranian interference followed “…by some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the U.S. blamed on Iran; culminating in a ‘defensive’ U.S. military action against Iran…” The “act” would lead to a “lonely America” into a conundrum of conflict across Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Further isolation and estrangement from the world would be the end game for the United States.

18 Fateful Words

a terrorist act in the U.S. blamed on Iran; culminating in a "defensive" U.S. military action against Iran



Brzezinski doesn’t waste any time setting off his own fire works. This phrase appears in the third paragraph (see full text below). He posits a possible justification for attacking Iran; clearly outside the bounds of rationality and built upon a foundation of myths. .

Look at the use of “terrorist act in the U.S.” in the context of his prepared statement:

If the United States continues to be bogged down in a protracted bloody involvement in Iraq, the final destination on this downhill track is likely to be a head-on conflict with Iran and with much of the world of Islam at large. A plausible scenario for a military collision with Iran involves Iraqi failure to meet the benchmarks; followed by accusations of Iranian responsibility for the failure; then by some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the U.S. blamed on Iran; culminating in a "defensive" U.S. military action against Iran that plunges a lonely America into a spreading and deepening quagmire eventually ranging across Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.. (.pdf of Brzezinski’s testimony)

Note: The emphasis by underlining and the use of quotation marks around defensive is found in the original copy and presumed to be that of Dr. Brzezinski.


The remarkable wording is that Iran is “blamed.”

“…blamed on Iran…” Does that mean that they did it?

Brzezinski refers to “a ‘defensive’ U.S. military action” adding emphasis and meaning by the use of quotation marks highlighting defensive. This answers the question about Iran’s blame in the scenario. The quotation marks around defensive indicate something other than that. This defines the meaning of “blamed” as somewhat akin to saying Iran would be the patsy, fall guy, or stooge for whoever actually committed the act.

Brzezinski’s prepared testimony is a chilling and highly evocative analysis offered by a major player in the U.S. foreign policy establishment. Before serving in the Carter administration, he was the first director of the Trilateral Commission. This isn’t speculation by an outsider supporting human rights or a peace activist, its insider information from the highest level of the United States foreign policy establishment.

Shortly after testifying Brzezinski was approached by Barry Grey, reporter for the World Socialist Web. Grey recounts the exchange:

Q: Dr. Brzezinski, who do you think would be carrying out this possible provocation?
A: I have no idea. As I said, these things can never be predicted. It can be spontaneous.
Q: Are you suggesting there is a possibility it could originate within the US government itself?
A. I’m saying the whole situation can get out of hand and all sorts of calculations can produce a circumstance that would be very difficult to trace.


“I have no idea” in response to the “provocation” is certainly not comforting since it implies the blaming of Iran would be arbitrary. Brzezinski’s answers above indicate that the terrorist act “can be spontaneous” or “the whole situation can get out of hand and all sorts of calculations” can lead to the act. At one end of the spectrum of anti U.S. terrorist acts, we have something totally random which the administration grabs and runs with as an excuse for war. At the other end, we have out of control “calculations” which at the extreme might be taken to include something like Operation Northwoods given the absence of a denial to Grey’s assertion in the second question above.

The plan swings into action…blaming Iran

Gates Says Bombs Tie Iran to Iraq Extremists
Lolita Baldor Associated Press 9 Feb 2007


MUNICH, Germany (Feb. 9) - Serial numbers and other markings on bombs suggest that Iranians are linked to deadly explosives used by Iraqi militants, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Friday in some of the administration's first public assertions on evidence the military has collected.


Just a week after Brzezinski outlined the modus operandi for the Bush crew, the supposed voice of reason at the Pentagon is selling a story of Iranian subversion. Trying it out on the road in Munich, Germany before the homeland premier, Gates indicated that weapons were found with Iranian serial numbers.


U.S. Secretary of Defense
Robert Gates on his European tour
.


"I think there's some serial numbers, there may be some markings on some of the projectile fragments that we found" that point to Iran, he said.

Gates' remarks left unclear how the U.S. knows the serial numbers are traceable to Iran and whether such weapons would have been sent to Iraq by the Iranian government or by private arms dealers.


Compare Gates’ tentative assertion to this whopper used to justify Gulf War I: “They took the babies out of the incubators, took the incubators, and left the babies on the cold floor to die” said the Kuwaiti Ambassador’s daughter, who, by the way, had never seen anything of the sort. Gates’ tentative serial number claim is no way to whip up war fever. Even the AP reporter bluntly questioned his ability to know just what it is about those serial numbers that gives them that tell-tale Iranian look.

So it begins - the rationale for war. The political basis for this scenario explains why the tactics must, of necessity, be so completely inept.

“…9/11 as the equivalent of the Pearl Harbor…”

After defining the specific dangers from the ill begotten Bush tactics, Brzezinski unveils the mythology that justifies the rush to war.

A mythical historical narrative to justify the case for such a protracted and potentially expanding war is already being articulated. Initially justified by false claims about WMD's in Iraq, the war is now being redefined as the “decisive ideological struggle" of our time, reminiscent of the earlier collisions with Nazism and Stalinism. In that context, Islamist extremism and al Qaeda are presented as the equivalents of the threat posed by Nazi Germany and then Soviet Russia, and 9/11 as the equivalent of the Pearl Harbor attack which precipitated America's involvement in World War II. (Author’s emphasis)


This short paragraph is the epitaph for the widely rejected neoconservative policies adopted by the White House. One can only wonder if the last line of the paragraph is a reference to the often quoted line from the Project for a New American Century anticipating the arrival of the brave new world of United States dominance. That PNAC goal will evolve slowly “…absent some catastrophic and crystallizing event – like a new Pearl Harbor” (p. 51).

Corporate Media Response

Reporter Grey complained vigorously about the lack of corporate media coverage for this testimony. This is one of the minor ironies of this event – a Socialist writer advocating for wide spread coverage of one of the most ardent anti-Communists of our time.

The silence was quickly broken when Barry Schweid of the Associated Press covered the story on the same day of the hearing, 01 Feb:

Brzezinski set out as a plausible scenario for military collision: Iraq fails to meet benchmarks set by the U.S., followed by accusations that Iran is responsible for the failure and then a terrorist act or some provocation blamed on Iran. This scenario, he said, would play out with a defensive U.S. military action against Iran.


They included “blamed” on Iran. The only less than representative element is the absence of quotation marks around defensive to imply something other than real defense. Banner headlines would have helped also.

The AP article appeared on MSNBC’s web page, in the Guardian, and other media outlets.

The St. Petersburg Times (Times Wires) story on 2 Feb completes the process AP began and clearly represents the testimony:

While other former U.S. officials and ex-generals have criticized administration policy in committee hearings, none savaged it to the degree Brzezinski did. He set out as a plausible scenario for military collision: Iraq fails to meet benchmarks set by the administration, followed by accusations Iran is responsible for the failure, then a terrorist act or some provocation blamed on Iran, and culminating in so-called defensive U.S. military action against Iran. (Author’s emphasis)


This clearly represents the most provocative statement in the testimony. It places the former national security adviser at the head of a pack of distinguished critics. This isn’t headline news yet but in just 72 hours we have an honest reading of the implication that a “so-called defensive…action” will arise from a terrorist act of questionable origin.

Now it’s time for the White House Press Corp to move in and fully expose the story:

Mr. President, what do you think of a former National Security Advisor Brzezinski’s claim that you’re cooking up a war with Iran based on a questionable terrorist act?


The author acknowledges the contributions of these early analysts of Dr. Brzezinski’s remarks.

END

*************


©Copyright: Please feel free to reproduce and distribute this in any fashion you feel suitable with an attribution of authorship and the publisher, “Scoop” Independent News, plus a link to the article
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. This was splashed around here quite a bit when it first appeared, but
it bears repeating.
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I did not see this b4 - thanks for re-posting. Astounding. The inamtes
are truly running the asylum.
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moodforaday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Check out these
recent threads:

Iran war following "a terrorist act in the US blamed on Iran " ((("Blamed"))) Carter Adviser
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x107654

Brzezinski ,in Senate hearings,warns of false domestic terror incidents
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3091945

Is Zbigniew Brzezinski MIHOP?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x138544

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Here were the first & it needs a Corporate Media breakthrough
Clemons go the testimony before it was given and hit Huffington. I hadn't realized that until looked earlier today. Washington Note and Paul Craig Roberts hit it hard and some bloggers. It's sort of like having the Gulf of Tonkin plan before it was executed.

I'd sure like to see someone run with it. The St. Petersburg Times really nailed it (in the article above) in terms of accurately representing Brzezinski but no Corporate Media types have carried forward or hit the front page with it.

My god, Brzezinski was the first Director of the Trilateral Commission and he saying this!

Go figure



Steve Clemons (31 Jan 2007, got prepared testimony) http://tinyurl.com/0

Counter Punch http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts02102007.html

Washington Note http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001916.php
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
49. Barry Grey wrote the 2nd thoughtful article on this - he's cited in my article.
http://wsws.org/articles/2007/feb2007/brze-f02.shtml">Barry Grey, World Socialist Web

Steve Clemons had an advanced copy of the testimony obviously and he was numero uno out of the
gate at Huffington, cite above.

Now some MSMer has to ask my question or a variation that appears at the end of the OP
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. NOTE - Be sure to check the two links in the last line - acknowledgment;)
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. From Newsweek:
"They intend to be as provocative as possible and make the Iranians do something would be forced to retaliate for," says Hillary Mann, the administration's former National Security Council director for Iran and Persian Gulf Affairs.

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2007/02/iran-is-laughing-at-us-right-now.html
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. just short of faking it.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. Is it any wonder why bush is leaving the country in March?
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windbreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. ok, and let me ask...while he's gone...who minds the store???
Cheney, right???? omg...my mind can come up with all sorts of scenes here...these people have not done anything in the past 6 years w/o a reason..or w/o plans for themselves for the future...he's bought land in Paraquay...now they are mysteriously going on a trip to S.America in March?????this makes me wonder if it's possible, they've planned an attack on DC for mid March, to initiate a war with Iran...and they are leaving us to our own devices (after all, with our military so stretched and our NG in Iraq, we the people have no protection at home)...to survive or not...because of course, IF we attack Iran on false premises, we don't know what Russia/China will do in retaliation...or...what Iranians in this country will do..and Cheney would not have to be in DC (but our Democratic Congress would be)...he could be at the new Northcom(?) complex in Colorado, directing the show....ohhhh, this does NOT sound good, nor does it make me feel good...
windbreeze
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think Invading Iran will be like Hitler's invasion of Poland.
The World will turn on us like they did on Germany.
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. except
the USA will not roll through Iran like german armies did in poland

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
26. Welcome to DU!!!! except
It will be no walk in the park if it happens.

It's so helpful that Brzezinski did this. It calls their bull shit in advance.

This may not have hit the big MSM magic show but you can be quite sure that there was
some shock and awe among the Powers That Be. They all got a copy;)
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
46. Yeah. I don't think the Iranians run much to horse cavalry anymore.
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ItsTheMediaStupid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
83. There won't be an invasion
These guys want an excuse to bomb the Iranian nuclear facilities.

Unfortunately/fortunately, depending on your point of view, these facilies are hardened underground facilities that will be difficult to destroy from the air.

The kookier of the BushCo neo-con man-pigs would like to use nukes on them.

The whole thing is insane and predictable. It's out of the PNAC playbook.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R. Everyone in America should know about this.
Good work autorank!
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. Hey there, just trying to keep the story alive. Gates comments helped;)
Everyone should know this is right.

It should be banner headlines. CM let the opportunity lapse but there are all sorts of
"important" people who must have said "WTF!" when this came out.

Brzezinski has a very good prose style too. The original testimony is a work of art.

:hi:
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
8. It's just another....
part of PNAC's plan for world domination!
K&R!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. What We Wanted to Tell You About Iran
Edited on Sun Feb-11-07 05:20 PM by seemslikeadream
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=3109220


http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=9971&view=next&sid=5270bdb49c815759ec5e59f304036054

NYT
Op-Ed Contributors
Redacted Version of Original Op-Ed

By FLYNT LEVERETT and HILLARY MANN
Published: December 22, 2006

The argument that Iran helped America in Afghanistan because it was in Tehran’s interest to get rid of the Taliban is misplaced. Iran could have let America remove the Taliban without getting its own hands dirty, as it remained neutral during the 1991 gulf war. Tehran cooperated with United States efforts in Afghanistan primarily because it wanted a better relationship with Washington.

But Tehran was profoundly disappointed with the United States response. After the 9/11 attacks, xxx xxx xx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xx set the stage for a November 2001 meeting between Secretary of State Colin Powell and the foreign ministers of Afghanistan’s six neighbors and Russia. xxxx xxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxx xxxx xx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxx xxxxx xxxxx xx xxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxx xxxxx Iran went along, working with the United States to eliminate the Taliban and establish a post-Taliban political order in Afghanistan.

In December 2001, xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx x Tehran to keep Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, the brutal pro-Al Qaeda warlord, from returning to Afghanistan to lead jihadist resistance there. xxxxx xxxxxxx so long as the Bush administration did not criticize it for harboring terrorists. But, in his January 2002 State of the Union address, President Bush did just that in labeling Iran part of the “axis of evil.” Unsurprisingly, Mr. Hekmatyar managed to leave Iran in short order after the speech. xxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxx the Islamic Republic could not be seen to be harboring terrorists.

xxx xxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxx xxxx xx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxx xxxx xxxxx xxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxxx xx xxxxx xxx xx xxxxxxx This demonstrated to Afghan warlords that they could not play America and Iran off one another and prompted Tehran to deport hundreds of suspected Al Qaeda and Taliban operatives who had fled Afghanistan.

Those who argue that Iran did not cause Iraq’s problems and therefore can be of only limited help in dealing with Iraq’s current instability must also acknowledge that Iran did not “cause” Afghanistan’s deterioration into a terrorist-harboring failed state. But, when America and Iran worked together, Afghanistan was much more stable than it is today, Al Qaeda was on the run, the Islamic Republic’s Hezbollah protégé was comparatively restrained, and Tehran was not spinning centrifuges. Still, the Bush administration conveyed no interest in building on these positive trends.

xxx xxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx x xxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxx xx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxx x xx x x xxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxx xxxxx xxxxx xx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx xxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx xx

From an Iranian perspective, this record shows that Washington will take what it can get from talking to Iran on specific issues but is not prepared for real rapprochement. Yet American proponents of limited engagement anticipate that Tehran will play this fruitless game once more — even after numerous statements by senior administration figures targeting the Islamic Republic for prospective “regime change” and by President Bush himself that attacking Iran’s nuclear and national security infrastructure is “on the table.”


Bush's Inconceivable Interest in Iran Sat Apr-01-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=819437

Senior U.S. Officials “Want to Hit Iran” Tue Apr-04-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=844418

Larisa Alexandrovna: CHENEY TAPS IRANIAN ARMS DEALER FOR IRAN TALKS Thu Apr-20-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=977234

Seymour Hersh said something startling about Rumsfeld on Democracy Now Fri Aug-18-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1936421

So former DLC, PNAC member Abram Shulsky feeding Cheney info on Iran?Sat Aug-19-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1944614

Fuck. Iran has started "war games." Escalation may only be expected.Sun Aug-20-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1949812

Attack on Iran is Coming Sun Aug-27-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1993284

"Grave threat". Yes, it's deja vu all over again. Thu Aug-31-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2022620

UN attacks US nuclear report on Iran erroneous misleading unsubstantiated Sun Sep-17-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2159951

We Are Conducting Military Operations Inside Iran Right Now Tue Sep-19-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2168218

Navy told: Prepare to blockade Iran by Oct 1 Mon Sep-18-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2161779

Pentagon Iran Office Mimics Former Iraq Office Wed Sep-20-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2179484

“This is the largest massing of military power in the region, and it is gathering for a reason.” Sat Nov-18-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2753952

Seymour Hersh: Cheney Says 'Whether Or Not Dems Win-NO STOPPING Military Option With Iran' Sun Nov-19-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2757350

Does anyone still believe the US will launch a full scale invasion of Iran? Mon Dec-04-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2856177

Saudi clerics rally support for Sunnis and Saudi ambassador Abruptly ResignsTue Dec-12-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2902643

Act III in a Tragedy of Many Parts - The US Occupation of Iraq Sun Dec-17-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2935498

Century Foundation Iran White Paper Series Fundamentalists, Pragmatists and the Rights of the Nation Tue Dec-19-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2948146

Oh shit Tue Dec-19-06
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2944423

Former CIA Officer Speculates on Folly of Attacking Iran
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=3067286

The Surge: 9,000 now, 10,000 on alert in Kuwait? WTF? (Iran bombing in the works?)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=3051862

Iranian missles & the US Navy in the Gulf
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=3039044

CentCom Expected to Shift Focus to Threat From Iran
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=3057187

U.S. air strikes against Iran in 2007/08 as all-but-a-done deal.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=3044319

Second U.S. carrier group to deploy to Gulf: sources
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=3037188

Iran could bloody our nose if Bush attacks. A look at Iranian missiles
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=3052957

Randi Rhodes - Cheney has sent orders to Stratcom - if terrorism, attack Iran...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=3052573

George W. Bush Is Going To Bomb Iran
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=3022620

Could the surge be really oriented as a back up plan for Israel's attack on Iran?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=3059883

The Time May Have Come - The Iran We Cannot Avoid - Michael Ledeen
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=3047465

Any hard evidence that 'the surge' is related to an attack on Iran?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=3045865

Useful maps of Iran. Please post them here for reference.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=3059824
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. Wow! What a great resource you provide!
Thanks. This should be required study.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. I've been waiting for something to happen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFowNFvmUxw

I've been waiting for something to happen
For a week or a month or a year
With the blood in the ink of the headlines
And the sound of the crowd in my ear
You might ask what it takes to remember
When you know that youve seen it before
Where a government lies to a people
And a country is drifting to war

And theres a shadow on the faces
Of the men who send the guns
To the wars that are fought in places
Where their business interest runs

On the radio talk shows and the t.v.
You hear one thing again and again
How the u.s.a. stands for freedom
And we come to the aid of a friend
But who are the ones that we call our friends--
These governments killing their own?
Or the people who finally can't take any more
And they pick up a gun or a brick or a stone
There are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire

Theres a shadow on the faces
Of the men who fan the flames
Of the wars that are fought in places
Where we cant even say the names

They sell us the president the same way
They sell us our clothes and our cars
They sell us every thing from youth to religion
The same time they sell us our wars
I want to know who the men in the shadows are
I want to hear somebody asking them why
They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are
But they're never the ones to fight or to die
And there are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire
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halobeam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #39
78. Jackson as always, nails it. It's been around for a while too...
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. Brzezinski's warning can't be repeated enough.
We live in interesting times.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. We certainly do!
And isn't that phrase considered a curse;)

Keep on keeping on!
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bananarepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
42. Particularly in the light of a third carrier group being sent to the gulf! n/t
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. The American people should have been in riot mode
after the DSM but they weren't, still aren't really. It took 3000 plus deaths to get a reaction. Many Americans will for whatever reason not care until it hurts THEM too, hurt enough of them and they will as a group care sort of. This may sound cold but it is true. The RW knows as long as they can create the slightest doubt they can get away with anything as they have been for for two and half decades. Is Otis from MS doing better then he was 1980 Probably not but will he blame the pukes, no he'll blame who ever the pukes tell him to blame. This time it's Iran.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. K & R - they tried it before with Operation Northwoods
But now McNamara isn't around to take it off the board. Good complement to this post: Time For Change's post on "conspiracy theories":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x103944
title: (2-1-07) So-called “Conspiracy Theories” in Perspective

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. This is a recurring theme - "Gulf of Tonkin" Resolution -
Same old same old.....they think we're idiots;)
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bananarepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. Don't forget 911 itself!
I'm one of those people who don't believe the official coincidence theory.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #43
84. I'm one of them too. I beleive, and have believed for a long time, that 9/11
Edited on Mon Feb-12-07 06:56 PM by Nothing Without Hope
was staged to provoke the Iraq War and, at least as important for its planners, pave the way for the stripping of constitutional rights in the name of "national security."
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bananarepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #84
89. ... and the right-wing-freak-show craps on about 'freedom'! Orwellian to the extreme!!! n/t
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
17. Remind all DUers again
I read this when you first posted it.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
18. war is already opened on four fronts: Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, and Iran.


http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts01082007.html

....

Neoconservatives have called for World War IV against Islam. In Commentary magazine Norman Podhoretz called for the cultural genocide of Islamic peoples. The war is already opened on four fronts: Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, and Iran.

The Bush administration has used its Ethiopian proxies to overthrow the Somalian Muslims who overthrew the warlords who drove the US from Somalia. The US Navy and US intelligence are actively engaged with the Ethiopian troops in efforts to hunt down and capture or kill the Somalian Muslims. US Embasy spokesman Robert Kerr in Nairobi said that the US has the right to pursue Somalia's Islamists as part of the war on terror.

For at least a year the Bush administration has been fomenting and financing terrorist groups within Iran. Seymour Hersh and former CIA officials have exposed the Bush administration's support of ethnic-minority groups within Iran that are on the US State Department's list of terrorist organizations. Last April US Representative Dennis Kucinich wrote a detailed letter to President Bush about US interference in Iran's internal affairs. He received no reply.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
19. Well done, Mike. I read some lacerating comments of Brzezinski
on the topic earlier, but isn't it great to see a wily old expert on these neocon types giving the highly plausible lowdown on their machinations!

Haven't seen much of you on here until a few days ago. Have you been on holiday?
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. Check out the acknowledgment links - both. "wily old expert" ;)
Check out the pdf. Brzezinski is a skilled writer. It's a neraly perfect
argument, every word counts!

I've been here and there doing this and that;)

Best! to you!!!
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #32
80. Thanks, Mike. You sure hit the nail on the head here: "Brzezinski is
a skilled writer. It's a nearly perfect argument, every word counts!"

I particularly enjoyed the full article by Brzezinski and the Washington Note. Imagine what a pleasure he and John Kerry would take in discussing the matter together.

As a dilettante armchair-statesman, I originally thought it would probably be best to just invite the Iranians to assist in restoring Iraq, but soon realised that Syria, as others suggested, was needed for Iraq's Sunni population - but how about all the neighbouring countries, and Russia and China too, as BZ proposed? BZ is the Bizzness!

In a discussion about assumptions and integrity, someone evoked the metaphor of a filing cabinet. Pooters also spring to mind. The "hard disks" in those guys' heads are kept well defragmented, aren't they? Files kept consolidated in the right programs and folders do tend to make for the integrity of the system.

The neocons, on the other hand, have an impressive number of files, but the connections are missing, so they keep putting them in the wrong dratted programmes and folders! And what a disastrous mess results! Y'all need a new hard disk! With a Donkey proprietary logo.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
20. Yes, the wheels have been set in motion today
with the accusation that Iran is supplying weapons to the insurgents.

The neocons don't give up...just like with Iraq they will try any accusation or provocation to get what they want.

I think some are waking up but, as the anonymous WH insider said, the neocons are "creating reality" faster than most can react to it.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. ...but wasn't the AP reporters reaction interesting.
She just batted it away, dismissed it.

I don't think they're going to have a cake walk this time.

But they're living in their own world and there isn't much the 'leet can
do effectively. The Baker-Hamilton effort should have resulted in some
change but it didn't. I think that we need a much more effective ruling
class. After all, if they can't stop one of their own who has gone
non linear, what's the point of even having a ruling class;)
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
21. Good Gracious
K & R
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. Shocking isn't it....
...what next, 400,000 Red Chinese troops poised on the US Mexico border. That
was the constant claim of the John Birch Society way way back in the 60's.

I guess they just packed up and went home.

Brzezinski is still walking around. Who will be the next member of the PTB
to break the code of "omerta"?
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. What, Just What Is It Going To Take
to stop these two felons? "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?"
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. they can't get away with this same shit over and over again I swear.
the record's stuck. . .the record's stuck. . .the record's stuck. . .

I cam back from a long journey in the wee hours just after sunrise, I stopped at a place for coffee and in the distance I heard CNN playing and all I could hear was "Al Quaida in Iraq." repeated every 8-10 seconds for as long as it took me to fill my coffee cup and add my copious amount of cream.

What broken record. . .same old shit.
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Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
73. It's bad when they own the media...
and the election fraud mechanisms. But they are getting exposed for the thugs they are.

Bill
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
23. k&r
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
24. a search of the LA Times came up with an article from april
2006 and this A Road Map Out of Iraq written by Brzezinski. The article's preface gives the title of Brzezinski’s new book, which makes it appear that the OpEd was undertaken to publicize his book.

i think it's a damn good question, why the msm is letting the bushies get away with snubbing any decent advice that will save lives end the war. they just ignore news, and they're the ones so many many people depend upon to GET their news! happily i signed off several years ago, recognizing the bullshit...

it really kinda amazes me that so many people don't recognize the bullshit. will we have to suffer 10 to 20 times the fatalities in Iraq before THE PEOPLE take the government back and force the hands of their elected representatives? WILL we ever have another elected president?

why did this new congress rubber stamp the pack of lies that is the 911 commission report by passing laws based upon it, lending credibility to its conclusions and validity to its (bushie whores) authors?

i know that WWIII does not HAVE to happen! but time is getting short to avert it. i feel truly impotent.

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
55. I don't know if it will be ten or twenty times
The fatalities - it could well be a hundred times the fatalities

The earth is at a saturation point with radiation - there is five times the amount of radiation floating above ur atmosphere as there was in July 0f 1945.

The thing is - the Powers that Be see a limited nuclear strike as our best option against Iran. The countries that lie East of China are already advising citizenry of how to avoid the fallout exposure - but of course continental drift means the USA will be afferted too -just maybe some hours later.

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DianaForRussFeingold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
25. Everyone in Congress and the senate should see this! Wesley Clark video
This is scary stuff. Nafta and globalism are in the plan.I would ask Walmart board member Hillary Clinton,if I had the chance. Please don't let the Neocons and MSM pick our candidate or we will have the same type of economy as Mexico,NO middle class. Check out Wes clark, 1:40 on, in the video. He too, was warning us about this. General Wes Clark's - The Republican Agenda- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6A0dG9mtno "you can't win it by killing people in Iraq, it's not that kind of war!", "this administration is going to take us to war with Iran and try to start a war with a billion people; people of the Islamic faith, there's no reason to do it" ... (more) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_iG-IBG7h4 :scared: :kick:
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
35. K&R
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
36. K & R Thanks, Autorank. Your tireless work is very much appreciated.
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freedomfries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
37. thank you for reposting
These are dangerous times.
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
38. Somebody get this to Daniel Ellsberg.
He's been looking for a whistleblower to come forward on possible secret plans for war with Iran.
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CrazyOrangeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
40. K&R
. . . for the cold, hard truth.
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
44. Why, that would be a "conspiracy".
And we've all been conditioned to laugh and mock people who propose "theories" on such matters.

Not so funny anymore, is it?

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. "Conspiracy theory goes mainstream on the road to Teheran" - it's the real deal!
No more mocking those who understand that almost every truly awful crime against humanity has
been committed by a group of people working together....it's called a CONSPIRACY!

:hi:
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #47
56. Ain't that the truth.
:thumbsup:
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
45. Iran might give the US miltary a bloody nose.... This is what they own NOW
Edited on Sun Feb-11-07 09:25 PM by FogerRox

Mach 3 Moskit SS-N-22 Sunburn Missile



"In July 1999, defense analyst Richard D. Fisher wrote an evaluation of the Russian-built Sunburn missile being sold to China. A senior fellow at the Jamestown Foundation, a Washington based think-tank, Fisher reported that the SS-N-22 may be capable of a dive speed of Mach 4.5 that would help it evade U.S. naval defenses. The Sunburn anti-ship missile is perhaps the most lethal anti-ship missile in the world," wrote Fisher in a review of the Chinese navy. The Sunburn combines a Mach 2.5 speed with a very low-level flight pattern that uses violent end maneuvers to throw off defenses. After detecting the Moskit, the U.S. Navy Phalanx point defense system may have only 2.5 seconds to calculate a fire solution -- not enough time before the devastating impact of a 750-lb. warhead."




An undated picture of a Russian short-range anti-aircraft missile system TOR-M1, range 25 km.



Pechora-2A can hit the air targets at distances from 3.5 to 38 kilometers and at heights from 0.02 to 20 kilometers, flying at a speed of up to 700 meters per second. The complex was successfully tested at a Middle East firing range, hitting an F-16 fighter and an analogue of a Tomahawk cruise missile.




S-300P/PMU-1/2/3, maybe better than the Patriot system.100 mile range.



SAm-11
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. Thanks for the peek at the technology they own
Of course, the real strategy for anyone opposing the US forces in Iraq is simply to keep the flow of arms going into Iraq through Syria, and letting the "insurgents" continue to effectively mow down our service peopel there.

The Administration was too lazy, inept, stupid or arrogant to have the adequate number of service people there in the first place - and so the border between Syria and Iraq has been extrememly (deliberately?) porous. And Bush wants his ineptitude rewarded with yet another shot at a another war for him to lose.

Instead of mainstreet media screaming for his and Cheney's heads on pikes, the media seems rather sympathetic that the big bad coutnry of Iran has been so vicious.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
48. See the DU post today about the anon. CIA agent who is suing the Bush Junta
for firing him (her?) for objecting to false intel on Iraq.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x184951

I started thinking about this, and put some thoughts to together, regarding a possible clue in Libby's "aspens" letter to Judith Miller, to the "grand plan" (seguing the Iraq disaster into a war with Iran). I'm reposting it there, because of its possible relationship to Brzenzski's testimony:

---------


I'm glad to see this come out--and have nothing but admiration for Doe's courage--but it adds to worries that a now purged CIA and unfettered, freewheeling fascist cabal in the White House and Pentagon have no check on them as to Iran, and I have little doubt, actually, that the flimsy charges against Iran that they are now bandying about--that some hand weapons in Iraq are coming from Iran--will escalate, either to phony nuke or bioweapons charges, or to a phony "terrorist" or Gulf of Tonkin-type incident. I think Libby may have been alluding to such a plot in his "aspens" letter to Judith Miller: "Come back to life--and work," he wrote, in order to cover certain stories, among which he listed "biological threats and the Iranian nuclear program." Miller was in jail ostensibly protecting her "source" on the Plame outings, Libby. His "aspens" letter could be read to mean that: she can come out of jail now, because he is now the designated fall guy to protect the bigger conspiracy, and speaking further in code, he refers to "out west" and a new season--fall--in which the aspens are turning: "the aspens" (Bushite cabalists) "turn" together (are cooperating), because their "roots connect them" (all want more war profiteering, control of Mideast oil fields and US world domination), to keep the long term plan moving forward (despite the setback of no WMDs in Iraq, and the Fitzgerald/CIA investigation): invasion of Iran. The long term plan is deeply rooted; don't be worried by these temporary setbacks; don't worry about testifying against me--all the "aspens" are on the same page now.

The "biological threat"? What could that be? And why phrase it like that, running the two things together? (--"biological threats and the Iranian nuclear program"). Bear in mind WHO these jerks were using as players--people like the notorious Iran/Contra arms dealer Manucher Ghorbanifar, rabid NeoCon Michael Ladeen, and Ahmed Chalabi--real dirty operatives. (Ghorbanifar and Ladeen suspected of involvement with the Niger/Iraq nuke forgeries, and Chalabi of course feeding false WMD intel on Iraq to Judith Miller and the Office of Special Plans.)

The Bushites have shown nothing but contempt for the lives of US troops. Will they unleash nuke- or bio-weapons on our own troops, and blame it on Iran? When you think of 9/11 (the NORAD standdown and other evidence of LIHOP), the mysterious anthrax letters to Democratic Congressmen, two filthy rotten stolen elections, torture dungeons all over the world, and all the rest, it does not seem unrealistic, however horrifying it is to think of.

(I ref this Autorank post.) Zbigniew Brzezinski's remarks are startling, to say the least--especially his suggestion that the Bush Junta might be capable of manufacturing an incident. He's very much an insider, as Autorank points out. Could the Libby letter have revealed a clue to the actual plan?

And here we are, in 2007, stripped of the honest professionals in the CIA, whose job it was to detect and prevent the illicit movement of dangerous weapons around the world.

-----

Libby's "aspens" letter:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/libbys...
("Aspens" has been connected to a big honcho Republican meeting in Colorado, where Libby and Miller met.)
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #48
58. This is very upsetting. The implications are as well.
Was Miller supposed to get it? (That's an actual question for you;)

If this is the message and she got it, then we're in the midst of a real drama that has nothing to do with any for of rational behavior.

I have to read the letter a few times to get a grip on this.

What a mind blowing point you make.

Thanks so much.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #48
61. Working link re: PeacePatriots commentary on Liddy-Miller letter
There you go. It's the last paragraph of Libby's letter. Ugh, what a weasel. And
Miller was cavorting with him. She's a real piece of work. When you are in a safe
place, think of this: Judy Miller got her start with Pacifica Radio. Tres charmant;)

http://tinyurl.com/8jmja
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
50. Just the other day, Gates & Bush assured us they wouldn't be attacking Iran, but
Bush's word isn't worth shit so, as the story goes...
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
51. You are freaking amazing, don't ever stop
Brzezinski is so right it hurts.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #51
59. "so right it hurts"...that he is!
You are on target. Thanks for the kind words :blush:

This is incredibly weird. I thought of Joe Valachi, the first public case of a mob guy
breaking "omerta" - the code of silence. Of course, Brzezinski is an incredibly intelligent
and articulate individual (check out the .pdf of his remarks, brilliant!). But it's the same
deal - don't ever talk. Well Zbig did and what a tale he's told.

Joseph Valachi
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
52. So why hasn't the MSM reported on this????
Edited on Sun Feb-11-07 10:38 PM by TwoSparkles
Dr. Brzezinski's made these statements more than a week ago.

This is the first I've heard of these newsworthy and important statements. Why
am I just finding out about them now...from an Internet source?

Where in the hell is the MSM?

They're SO skilled at writing stories about Iran's fingerprints being all over
weapons in Iraq. Those stories are flimsy at best and very hard to verify. The
MSM is relying on BushCo for stories. BushCo tells them the bullshit and the MSM
reports it---while failing to investigate sources or dig for the real truth. They'll
print the baloney run-up-to-war-with-Iran stories, but they don't print highly
important comments from a seasoned government official????

I always thought that the media was just succumbing to pressure from BushCo. I'm
beginning to think that most of the media has been paid off--or that they're
died-in-the-wool neocons who are just posing at journalists.

This is unconscionable.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #52
60. The media is first of all directed by the 5 rightwing billionaire CEOs who
control all news and opinion in this country, except for the internet and word of mouth--giant corporate entities that own every radio and TV station in the country, and the newspapers in every town, with many subsidiaries controlling all books, magazines, movies and programming, including the news magazines, plus the consolidated news service, AP. The Bush Junta doesn't even have to pick up the telephone to tell them how everything should be slanted toward war and fascist policy.

That's why I think Cheney and Libby's story of their great concern about Joseph Wilson's article on 7/6/03, questioning their veracity about the Niger/Iraq nuke allegation, makes me laugh. I think it's playacting and creative note taking. That Cheney outed Valerie Plame and the entire Brewster-Jennings counter-proliferation network in order to win a political argument in a lapdog newstream that he didn't even have to pick up the telephone to control, is the second layer of cover story--what we are seeing now in the Libby trial--which is protecting some worse crime. The first layer of cover story was that Rove did it for the same reason--as part of a political argument. Fitzgerald penetrated that layer. Anyway, you get my point. The "media' is not "succumbing" to pressure from BushCo. Editors and reporters are dependent for their paychecks on their bosses, and their bosses pick people to work for them who think mostly about where their paycheck is coming from. In this sense, yes, the "media" is paid off. Greed operates at every level--as well as job insecurity. They're not "died-in-wool neocons," most of them. They are whores. They are HIRED for having that quality.

This situation--the monopolistic control of all media in a few rightwing billionaires' hands--has been developing for time, and has been accompanied by many other polices that degrade the quality of reporting and analysis--cutbacks in staff, so that there are no resources for investigation, cutbacks in local staff and local news programming so that local peoples' news and views have little or no exposure ("all democracy is local"), the crowding out of any serious news coverage/analysis by stupid, glitzy news programming, and other policies aimed at dumbing down the "news," lack of competition (one conglomerate owning all news markets in a region), promotion of canned shows and canned music (no opportunity for local or regional talent to express itself, no variety, no competition). These same jokers claim devotion to a "free market." What a joke. What a lie.

So, you end up with this: 74% of the American people oppose the Iraq war and want it ended, yet virtually every TV and radio show in the country fails to reflect that view in their news programming or analysis, and newsprint is not much better. They report a FEW things about it. They have to keep up the illusion that they are doing "news." But, overall, they just fall into lockstep promoting Bush's ESCALATION of that very war as inevitable, reasonable and even preferable. 74% of their audience disagrees. What the fuck do they care? They are God. They SAY what the "news" IS.

Same thing on Iran. A whopping EIGHT-FOUR PERCENT of the American people oppose any US participation in a widened Mideast war (summer '06). What do the war profiteering corporate news monopolies do? As if the past history of Bush Junta lies about Iraq doesn't exist, they fall right into lockstep on lies about Iran, leading up to a war against Iran. The corporate bosses and their henchmen have hired mostly whores and the brain-dead to work for them. Nobody can even remember what happened last week or last year. They put on their makeup, hook up to their mikes, and do their bobble-headed act, reading lines of crap news they know nothing about--or put on a "talk show" where everybody shouts three word opinions at each other, and facts and substance and thoughtfulness don't exist. And a lot of what passes for print news is the literary equivalent of the Barby doll act we see in TV. Much of it is taken off a single newswire, AP, that is one of the worst lying piece of shit news organizations I've ever encountered--and it absolutely dominates print news. AP is corporate streamlining. It's a way for a lot of newspapers and news producers NOT to have reporters. And all national and world news thus gets streamlined and tailored to rightwing purposes.

This degradation of journalism is very deliberate. There is no line anymore between journalism and commercialism. News serves the profit of the rich. Period. There is no other news. Except on the internet and by word of mouth--and I should mention brave efforts like AAR and Democracy Now. (People ARE fighting back.) There was one exception among what USED TO BE the "mainstream" news (good objective journalism)--Knight-Ridder. And guess who has now gotten swallowed up by a rightwing conglomerate, and basically destroyed?

Give a little credit to the American people--74% of whom oppose the Iraq War and want it ended, and 60% to 70% of whom oppose all Bush policy, foreign and domestic. And don't ever call them "sheeple." Somehow they are informing themselves. Somehow they are thinking for themselves. And they have been doing this all along, and sometimes it seems like I am the only leftist in the country who has noticed. I noticed it way back in Feb. '03, when 56% of the American people opposed the war, before it even started, before Colin Powell's lies were exposed. 56%! And that was at the same time that about 50% believed that Saddam had WMDs. What that means is that a significant number of people who believed the WMD propaganda STILL didn't trust Bush, and didn't think it was that big a deal. Not worth a war. They were thinking for themselves--even when they didn't have good information. They haven't quite figured out how their disenfranchisement occurred--but they will. And then the corporate monsters who are oppressing them had better look out.

Which brings me to the acronym "MSM." Mainstream media. Please don't give this ground to the corporate news monopolies. DO NOT CALL THEM "MAINSTREAM." They are nowhere near the mainstream. They are way, way, way over to the rightwing/corporate/fascist end of the spectrum. Every time we use this phrase we reinforce their carefully cultivated deception that they represent the "mainstream" of the American people. To use this phrase--to give them the word "mainstream"--is an act of oppression of the American people. They need to be called the weird-stream media. The money-stream media. The rightwing noise machine. The controlled media. The corporate media. Or my favorite--I type it out every time--the war profiteering corporate news monopolies. They do NOT reflect mainstream opinion, or the interests or welfare of the majority of people. They are MIND-CONTROLLERS and BRAINWASHERS, who have given a BIG TRUMPET to a tiny minority of nutball wingers, way out proportion to their numbers. And their purpose is to demoralize, disempower and disenfranchisement the great progressive majority in this country. They are ANTI-mainstream.

The anti-matter media. The sick corporate media. The mind-fucking media. The billionaires club media. Take your pick. I'm kind of liking the Weird-stream Media. (WSM.) Just don't use mainstream. It feeds the beast.
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CrazyOrangeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #60
66. one hell of a post.
rock on, Peace Patriot . . .
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #60
75. "5 rightwing billionaire CEO's" - That's our media!
When you've got that much to lose, you don't take risks.

These guys don't have the courage to even allude to the insanity that is presented on
a daily basis. Wimps, they'll lose it all if * gets his way.
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kaygore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-11-07 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
54. Thank you for this information
It is extremely helpful and I shall try to get the word out. The more their plans are exposed, the harder it may be for them to fool us again as they did with 9-11 and Iraq.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #54
69. You're welcome. Wish it were better news...
...but getting it out is the best strategy. If we know how the magician does his trick in advance, we're not that that impressed. In this case, it's an old truck completely exposed by someone who would know. Thanks to Brzezinski!!!
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
57. KNR.nt
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
62. "I think there's some serial numbers, there may be some markings"
:silly: :wtf:


Whoa Nellie!
The instructions for pouring piss from your Gucci's are on the heel. Can we manage to pour the piss???
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #62
70. You've got the spirit...from Champagne to this;)
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Doondoo Donating Member (843 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
63. bump
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
64. Same shit, different pile.
Iraq redux. These fuckers won't be satisfied until they start WW3! :mad: :mad:
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. And it's our great Senator who stood up and said to the nation - NO WAY
But noooo, now where is he, put front and center as the spokesman for the Democratic anti-insanity - anti war spokesman. Haven't noticed, have you. It's not that Webb wouldn't do that but I think he's seen as a bit too, well you know, pushy and smart. I suspect he'll lay back for a few more days and then come forward in a really intense way. I'm even allowing myself to think that Warner will bolt from the Republican party. Why not. He would go down in history as a key figure, a "great Senator" at a time when we'd need a "profile in courage." If that's not Virginia in your avatar field, I'm having a nice conversation with myself;) but whatever. VIRGINIA SAVES THE REPUBLIC!
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
65. Gates gives it away...
"I think there's some serial numbers, there may be some markings on some of the projectile fragments that we found" that point to Iran, he said.

emphasis mine.
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #65
67. "Some people say..."
I knew this guy was going to be trouble.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #65
72. EXCELLENT. You nailed it ...
...and I missed it. You're on the buddy list for input;)

That's perfect and that explains why the AP reporter was so openly dismissive, she was probably going
on that cue. Damn, perfect interpretation. Outstanding.
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #65
85. yes indeedy...
Truly Nailed...
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
68. Did anyone catch the SNL sketch of Cheney's dog that eluded to this?
I was stunned. Thanks for the info, I think. :scared:
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
74. Serial numbers?
"I think there's some serial numbers, there may be some markings on some of the projectile fragments that we found" that point to Iran, he said.

Gates' remarks left unclear how the U.S. knows the serial numbers are traceable to Iran and whether such weapons would have been sent to Iraq by the Iranian government or by private arms dealers.


Considering we have no intelligence gathering in Iran anymore and what little we did have the Plame outting destroyed, how would they know the serial numbers are from Iran? Jeeze, they are still following the PNAC plan even though it has already been tried and failed in Iraq.


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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
76. More evidence that the Iran business is a magic show...
Not that the Iraninans should be trusted or seen as any type of podsitive force. They are NOT.



Ex-Bush Iran official: US seeks pretext for conflict with Iran
http://tinyurl.com/37mr76
David Edwards
Published: Monday February 12, 2007
Print This Email This

A former top Bush administration official for Persian Gulf affairs has said in an interview this morning on CNN that the US may be trying to spark a conflict with Iran.

Hillary Mann is the former National Security Council Director for Iranian and Persian Gulf Affairs. She warned in the interview that the recent flare up between Iran and the US over the former's alleged assistance to Shi'a militias results from a US desire to provoke conflict with the Iranians.

"They're trying to push a provocative, accidental conflict," Mann said.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
77. # 81.


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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
79. Now, if only more than 2% of America knew about or understood all of this.
Edited on Mon Feb-12-07 03:09 PM by BeHereNow
And that is exactly why they will get away with it.

Thanks for the comprehensive post and all the contributors.
At least there will be a record for the children as to how it
happened.
Printing.

BHN
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IWantAChange Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
81. Did anyone else forward the link to KO and Cafferty? The more of us that do
the better chance someone there MAY notice - at this point it's all about more Americans learning the truth IMO.....
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Mich Otter Donating Member (887 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
82. I-Ran Iraq Badly
This ought to be Bungling Bush's new motto.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
86. Kick(nt)
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
87. autorank
good work, and I'd like to add another element to this mix, we need to IMPEACH THE MEDIA, Everyone needs to get this out there, and or write to a Congressman or woman..

We need IMMEDIATE Congressional Hearings on Media COMPLICITY in WAR and TERROR, not only do they PROFIT from it, it is Irresponsible, and don't forget that we OWN these Airwaves and can REVOKE their license.

Imagine a Media EATING ITSELF as Hearings are held.. O'Reilly and Wolfie in Front of CONYERS explaining WHY they LIED about IRAN, WHO PROFITS..

Let's get a Grass Roots effort going on this, SPREAD THE WORD, we can DO IT. :)

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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
88. Al this saber rattling over Iran
...and not a peep about Saudi Arabia. There's more than one bad actor here (starting with Bush** and our lapdog corporate media). Brzezinski is prognosticating what any of us could, and have, but he's big guns and still being largely ignored.

And the Iraq redux marches onward.

K&R, great thread.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-14-07 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
90. kick
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