I've come to the frightful conclusion...

[rucky]

that there are no political parties, just the ruling class and the rest of us.

as soon as we detach ourselves from the show of party politics that divides us, the sooner we can join together to take-on the real enemy of the people. the one who's been waging war on us, without us even knowing it.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. History is filled with examples

Of ways that this sort of thing has been dealt with by populaces. Generally, it's messy work.

[madokie]

3. yes it is messy work and yes we must do it now

otherwise we lose if we haven't already that is

[rucky]

6. one ray of light...Rather:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1873923

[madokie]

16. I agree

[superkia]

4. We could at least try to do it with a vote in the primaries but...

I fear most Americans really have no clue whats happening under their noses and it will be all of our children that pay for our ignorance.

[CrispyQ]

32. I vote on the same machine in the primary that I vote on in the general.

They will choose our candidate.

Here's what I see in my crystal ball:

Clinton will "win" Dem the nomination.
Clinton will "win" the White House.
We will be told to shut up about election fraud, because, "A Dem won, a woman no less, so shut up."
Clinton will be blamed for everything wrong & it will be a very long time before another woman runs for president.
Jeb Bush will "win" the White House in 2012.

Wow, I'm depressing myself. Time to disconnect from the Internet & enjoy the beautiful day.

:hi:

[TahitiNut]

5. Yes, but we all celebrate the technique once a yaer,

Are we hypocrites? :evilgrin:

[slipslidingaway]

2. K&R n/t

[baldguy]

7. Workers of the world, UNITE!

You have nothing to lose but your chains!

[unkachuck]

8. Amen!!

....however, unfortunately, most people in this country like their 'chains'....

[rucky]

9. that was the "frightful" part of the conclusion.

time for an exit strategy

[stillcool]

10. my very favorite book...

..my 'bible' on reality is "The Rich and The Super-Rich" by Ferdinand Lundberg. It is now available for free down-load...due to it's copyright expiration at the following site:
http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0303critic/0303socialcriticism.html
a taste....

One
THE ELECT AND THE DAMNED
A man whose entire worth lies in 5 per cent of the capital stock of a corporation capitalized at $2 billion is worth only $100 million. But as this 5 per cent--and many own more than 5 per cent--usually gives him control of the corporation, his actual operative power is of the order of $2 billion. Politically his is a large voice, not only because of campaign contributions he may make but by reason of all the legislative law firms, congressional and state-legislative, under retainer by his corporation; for every national corporation has law firms in every state. There is additionally to be reckoned with all the advertising his corporation has to dispense among the mass media as a tax-free cost item, the lobbyists his corporation puts into the field and the cultural-charitable foundations both he and the corporation maintain.

Such a man, worth only $100 million net, is clearly a shadowy power in the land, his ownership stake vastly multiplied by what he controls--other people's property as well as his own. And there are more than a few such.

On the other hand, many intelligent citizens today complain in the face of the alleged complexity of affairs of feelings of powerlessness. Their feelings are justified. For they are in fact politically powerless.

The actual power of such concentrated ownership, therefore, is much greater than its proportion in the total of investment assets. The corporate power of the top 200,000, and certainly of the top 700,000, is actually 100 per cent. The power of this top layer corporatively would be no greater if it owned 100 per cent of investment assets. Actually, it might be less: It would then receive no support from many tremulous small holders but would probably find them in political opposition.

As to distribution of investment assets among smaller property holders, 1 per cent are owned by the $5,000 to $9,999 group, 7 per cent by the $10,000 to $24,999 group, 11 per cent by the $25,000 to $49,999 group and 15 per cent by the $50,000 to $99,999 group, or 34 per cent in all. In this group of comparatively modest means one finds some of the most voluble supporters of the established corporate way. Within their own terms they are all winners, certainly hold some financial edge. Most of them, as their expressions at stockholder meetings show, greatly admire the larger stockholders. In their eyes, a divinity doth hedge the large stockholders.

[shanti]

33. excellent website!

thanks so much for the link - i see i have some reading ahead of me.

[stillcool]

34. I had two copies of the...

Lundberg book, and reluctantly gave one away. I can't tell you how many times I've referred back to it. It is well written..easy to understand..and full of data. I have not come across any other book that has served me so well. I haven't yet taken advantage of the other great stuff on the website...I've taken a break to read fiction...spy novels...

[robinlynne]

11. yes and thank-you!

[eridani]

12. Or we could organize to retake the party that gave us the New Deal

--and is also pretty good on domestic issues when not threatened too much by corporations. The other party is going to keep trying to screw us out of principle, not fear.

[daninthemoon]

13. You read about the bush-walkers, you see cheney and haliburton,

and the oil/military/banking complex, you think about jfk & lbj & vietnam, and the military/industrial/banking complex, you see bushler's first cabinet made up of people from ford's cabinet,you note that ford was on the warren commision...looks like duck and all, basically after the last two presidential "elections" the blatant fraud involved, the smirks on the faces of everyone in the current admin, I still vote, but I really don't know if it counts.

[JNelson6563]

26. I can't recall who this quote is from

"If voting really changed anything it would be abolished."

When I first heard this I thought it was too cynical even for me, not so much anymore.

Julie

[MisterHowdy]

14. hit the streets.

Its the only way,

I'm just saying.

to the moderators: I'm not encouraging riot, i'm encouraging mass protest.

cheers.

[The Doctor.]

15. They have made division of The People an art.

And since divisions are self-propagating, half their work is done.

How easy it is to convince one sector of the populace that "all those people trying to tell you things just think they're smarter than you, they think they're better than you... but you're a patriotic American who doesn't want to lose."

The conclusion; "They must be traitors, we should get rid of them."

[skids]

17. Separation from "party politics" just marginalizes you

True reformers work in, around, against, and under the system all at the same time. While what you say about joining together is certainly good, doing so in a vacuum is only good if your intent is to form some sort of isolated commune. That's not a bad thing, perse, but it doesn't bring the larger problems towards resolution.

Plus all these group-thinkers thinking of themselves as "level headed centrists" are definitely not part of the solution.

[rucky]

19. We will not find a political solution...

to a problem that is not political in nature. It's socio-economic.

If you want to work from within, get a job at Exxon and move up the ranks. You'll get farther than running for office. That's who they work for.

[skids]

23. Well, you know...

...we all want to save the world.

[EFerrari]

18. Hiya, rucky. I think I know what you mean and spell me this:

I think there are really political parties. And religions and sects, even. And unions and other kinds of communities.

Where else would you go to suck the life out of people, to get to them under cover of trust or faith or even, simply of proximity?

We might not want to confuse our communities with the exploitation of the same. :shrug:

[rucky]

21. You do know what I mean.

but let me elaborate: we're looking for political solutions to problems that aren't really political in nature. They're socio-economic and they have bled into every institution of our society - the most influential of which is the political area, but that's just one of many means to a larger end for them. the corporations who control our resources hold the real power - not the president or Congress. They just keep the pillows fluffed.

And I can't put my finger on why or how, but I feel community is the key to beating this. People relying on their neighbors - not Wal-Mart or Hillary Clinton, or Skinner. It's about saving each-other by making our worlds smaller, more personal, and as micro-economically self-sufficient as we can in this day and age. sure, we're all interdependent, but we don't have to globalize according to the vision of Bilderburgs or whoever's pulling these strings. It should be about sharing resources - not controlling them.

[EFerrari]

22. I can't quite finger it either but maybe after watching the horror

of Katrina, my gut says the same thing. Go local. Build the community. We're on our own.

(Part of that is just a reaction, but reactions shouldn't be discounted out of hand.)

One of the biggest dysfunctions in our culture, imho, is isolation and individuals feeling that they have to supply themselves in every way and at any cost. It makes us so much easier to manipulate, doesn't it? Being alone like that.

I agree with you about community but I can't quite say why, yet. :)

[opihimoimoi]

24. Well, we see what the Pubs did to us...and you say the Dems are no different? This is crap thinking.

Get a grip and vote DEM.....they got better odds to do the right thing...

[moodforaday]

28. That strategy has already been tested

The results came out negative.

[EFerrari]

29. I didn't say that. Maybe you should reread what I wrote.n/t

[opihimoimoi]

40. My apology....it was the OP that said it...

[southerncrone]

20. Bingo!

[Retired AF Dem]

25. The ruling elite

Bush then Clinton then Bush then Clinton then maybe another Bush then Chelsea should be old enough to take over. If Clinton wins in 08 that could be 28 years of the same two familys in power.

[Echo In Light]

27. Bingo

I remember being exposed to Chomsky in the 90s, which helped shape an overview of how power works. Also, shortly after the first Gulf slaughter, I saw comedian/social critic George Carlin disseminate the domestic propaganda effort which "instructed" Americans on how and what to think. He spelled it out in easy terms: the supposed left and genuinely real right is a divide and rule ruse which coaxes the citizenry into arguing amongst themselves over emotionally oversimplified issues so that the elite can keep going to the bank over our backs with less interference.

[Totally Committed]

30. Bingo! Right on the money!!! (No pun intended)

Sickening, isn't it?

TC

[mitchum]

31. Roll out the tumbrels

[Bucky]

35. Your conclusions do not frighten me

But read more Madison. Political factions are only the shifting of alliances and coalitions among a multitude of competing interests. Sometimes the rich gang up on us. Sometimes different interests and tastes among the rich divide them and they seek alliances among different factions and interests among the working stiffs. The tribal labels of Democratic and Republican make it easier to marshall those forces, but that doesn't mean that the marshalling of forces is always a fabrication.

Believe me, James Madison says all this a lot more eloquently. Of course he was a richie, so maybe I'm just still getting conned.

[specimenfred1984]

36. Logged in just to ignore you

More "there's no difference between dems and pukes" talk.

[cosmicdot]

37. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours

[HCE SuiGeneris]

38. And the ruling class really, REALLY, doesn't want

DK as president. We must all band together to elevate this man to higher office.

[BeHereNow]

39. And you are correct.

And yes, it is frightful.
BHN