HEADLINE: Reporter says Ari Fleischer was Plame source

[Bluebear]

Oh dear, Ari, people should "watch what they say", you know.

===



WASHINGTON (AP) - Former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer leaked the identity of a CIA operative to Washington Post reporter Walter Pincus during a 2003 phone call, Pincus testified Monday as the first defense witness in the CIA leak trial.

Pincus was one of the first reporters to learn the identity of Valerie Plame, the wife of former ambassador and prominent Iraq war critic Joseph Wilson. Pincus said he learned her identity July 12, 2003 but did not immediately write about it. Plame was outed by syndicated columnist Robert Novak two days later.

Pincus testified on behalf of Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby. Libby is accused of lying and obstructing the investigation into the leak of Plame's identity.

Pincus, a veteran national security reporter, said he was talking to Fleischer for a story about weapons of mass destruction. He said Fleischer "suddenly swerved off" topic and asked why Pincus continued to write about Wilson.

"Don't you know his wife works for the CIA as an analyst?" Pincus recalled Fleischer saying.

http://www.komotv.com/news/national/5751986.html

[helderheid]

1. K & R

[Jacobin]

2. I think Ari would like nice in an orange jump suit

What's the hold up?

[BuyingThyme]

5. He cut a deal. No penalty for treason.

[mzmolly]

12. But who did he "cut" in his deal?

:freak:

[Jacobin]

24. I forgot

Hopefully, his testimony will implicate his masters

[mzmolly]

11. With matching shoes of course.

Should he wear the pumps or the flats?





:P

[Bluebear]

13. Ask Condi. nt

[mzmolly]

16. Ah, yes she has marvelous taste in shoes.

Her personal motto - "So many shoes, so little time." ;)

[sakabatou]

50. How about the whole gang?

[BuyingThyme]

3. No wonder he thought he would face the death penalty.

Too bad Fitz let him off.

[AlCzervik]

4. ok so let me see if i have this right-Fleischer told Pincas, Armitage told Novak

and Libby told Miller? How many F*cking leakers are there now?

[Bluebear]

6. A visual aid >>>>>

[AlCzervik]

9. and how is it possible no one has been charged? This is nuts.

[Jacobin]

27. You made me laugh

Perfect

:toast:

[VOX]

57. Awesome! Thanks, Bluebear!!

Thank you for the late-in-the-day laugh, which is much appreciated! :toast:

[Neecy]

7. I wonder about that, too

So is the Libby defense going to be that lots of administration officials participated in leaking this all over the Washington press corps? Fine --- because someone higher up than Libby and Ari and Armitage must have told them to leak it. Hopefully the big fish will be flippin' in the net soon...

[AlCzervik]

15. ok this is where having a good defense atty is key, Libby's guy is trying to cast

doubt and so far with this new info he's doing a pretty good job. I'm sure the jury must be having a collective "WTF?" moment. All that being said that doesn't make Libby any less guilty of lying to the grand jury.

[caligirl]

47. Isn't that a side issue? the charges he is on trial for aren't outing Plame, they

are commiting perjury to the GJ. His defense team is pointing at everything to undercut russert, trying to sa ve Libby from perjury conviction.

[Jackpine Radical]

10. So nice to see how they divided up the dirty work...(nt)

[AlCzervik]

20. i would love to see the look on the faces of the jurors.

[tridim]

21. When is * going to fire all the leakers?

Or is he going to break that promise too, like everything else.

[AlCzervik]

23. right after he finds Bin Laden.

so that will be sometime next---never.

[BuyingThyme]

26. Don't believe ANYTHING Armitage and Woodward say.

[AlCzervik]

37. i really don't believe anything any of them have said so far.

i wonder if the jury feels the same way.

[dancingme]

35. Rove told Cooper and Novak

Don't forget Karl!

[louis-t]

8. Deliberate attempt by many admin officials to inform reporters

so they could say "see, everyone knew."

[Captain Hilts]

14. Gee whiz, wonder who the hub of all the spokes is? nt

[louis-t]

39. (cough)cheney(cough)

[Parisle]

17. It was still coordinated from the top

--- Cheney & Bush are the real "leakers"

[Bluebear]

18. Absolutely. Ari was the propaganda catapulter. nt

[Jackpine Radical]

31. Ari never knew anything

that Rove didn't think it was expedient for him to know.

[Canuckistanian]

54. Good point!

Ari is just one of those low-level fish that they can throw to the sharks to distract everyone.

Just ask Michael Brown, Lynndie England and Katherine Harris.

[AlCzervik]

19. indeed. This is really like watching sausage being made.

[A Simple Game]

36. Your analogy is so appropriate that it is almost gross.

Key word being almost.

[BuyingThyme]

22. If Dems are such pussies, maybe they should start with

impeaching Ari. It can be a trial run. It shouldn't take more than a week.

[Garbo 2004]

29. Ari's been out of the Administration since July 2003. Impeachment proceedings are limited to those

who are "civil officers" of the US. Ari isn't.

[BuyingThyme]

30. You are incorrect.

Impeachment is a process used for banning individuals from ever again serving in the federal government.

[Garbo 2004]

44. Impeachment is an action taken against those serving in civil office:

they can be removed from office & in addition banned from future service. That is constitutionally clear. It is not at all clear or legally accepted and resolved that Congress has the consitutional authority to use impeachment against former civil officers for the sole purpose of disqualifying them from futher service. And John Dean, whose work you may be referencing, admits that.

What/who are the sources for your contention?

[BuyingThyme]

46. People equate impeachment with removal,

but that's not actually what the word means.

But to say that Congress cannot impeach somebody who has resigned seems to take away their power to decide who is not fit to serve. I think the decision is theirs to make.

And the concept of impeachment after resignation, while not explicit in the U.S. Constitution, does seem to be clarified in some state constitutions (which tend to be based on the U.S Constitution). Not that this is necessarily valid evidence to support my point, but it shows that the question has been addressed.

Every officer of State, whether judicial or executive, shall be liable to be impeached by the House of Representatives, either when in office or after resignation or removal for maladministration.

http://www.virtualvermonter.com/history/constitution.htm

[Garbo 2004]

59. A matter that is specifically addressed in a state constitution does not mean

the same holds true for the US Constitution, especially when it is not so addressed by the US Constitution. State law applies to the specific state, not the Feds.

One cannot simply impute powers to the Congress by citing various powers granted state legislatures by state constitutions. The US Constitution does not, as you assert, clearly authorize Congress to impeach a former Federal officer years after he has left Federal service for the sole purpose of restricting him from future federal service.

And I'll wager that particular Constitutional question will not be tested any time soon.

[BuyingThyme]

60. The concept of impeachment doesn't have anything to do

with whether or not the target is currently in office.

[AndyA]

25. Didn't Ari cut a deal?

No way he will be prosecuted for any crime related to this.

At some point, I keep hoping SOMEONE will be held responsible for outing a CIA agent. If you ask me, they should start at the top since Bush was also involved in the coverup of this thing by acting like he had no idea who in his administration would have been involved. And he was involved all along. So was Cheney.

They should both be held responsible, and prosecuted for their actions.

[symbolman]

55. Not neccessarily

They can drag this into a Congressional Hearing and SLAM the guy there..

He's only off the hook with Fitz, and Fitz could have another card up his sleeve as well :)

[Garbo 2004]

58. Depends on the terms of his immunity, what is protected against criminal prosecution.

That would apply to Congress as well in terms of any criminal charges they might consider forwarding to the DOJ. Ari's immunity agreement isn't simply with Fitz, it's with the US gov't represented by the DOJ. Perjury of course is not covered by the grant of immunity.

[jmowreader]

28. So who was the original source?

The government is a big place. No one knows everything--especially closely-held information like the names and covers of coverts.

Someone at CIA told someone in the White House who told all of the second/third tier workers who proceeded to inform every right-wing journalist in America. From which Robert Novak, the best soldier the RW has, went out and informed the world.

What we really need to know:

The CIA-White House link: Obviously the DCI was involved. Some GS-9 sitting on the WMD Proliferation desk isn't going to call up the White House and tell them, "hey, you know that guy Wilson who's running around fucking things up? Well, get a load of this..." He's also not going to walk into the DCI's office and tell said director, "Hey Boss, Joe Wilson's wife is working WMD as a NOC in Bum Fuck, Egypt." So we're really looking at minimum of three people: the GS-9 on the WMD proliferation desk, the chief of whatever group WMD proliferation falls under, and the DCI. Maybe more than that.

Once the DCI, or someone very close to him, went to the White House with this, obviously SOMEONE at that end with considerable rank received it. This gives us a very short list of names who it could have been: Bush, Cheney or Rove.

From there we're starting to learn just how widely they dispersed this, and how many reporters are still patriotic.

[peacetalksforall]

38. WHIG. Don't you think that the entire SOTU and WMD propaganda job for war

was a mission of the WHIG?

Who informed someone on the WHIG is one issue?

Who gave the go ahead for the strategy of leaking and 'playing' the Plame game is another?

The leak to the WHIG group could have gone directly to a WHIG member or through someone else.

So, yes how did the leak get to the WHIG group - who was the original.

But, honorable and ethical people would have not leaked it further. Since these people are not, they came up with a plan to out her (for ALL their reasons) and to MANAGE the press to place her into a 'joke' status by all the demeaning.

The lower levels within the WHIG group did not do this on their own, but one person at a lower level could have been given the assignment to 'manage' it after the order was given to proceed. Manage by assigning it to the members the press most want to talk to - where the links and friendships are already established - where the WH had friends instead of distant or hostile press contacts.

It's obvious that Pincus and Miller would be involved because they follow (or lead) WMD most closely. Novak is the all around naughty boy loyalist. Woodward - who knows it it's true about his CIA 'connections.

I think WHIG is the core of it all and the more we understand what went on there, the more we'll see the single or multi leaks from one or another of the intelligence services.

The more the public learns about the deed the WHIG orchestrated, the more they will understand and act. Firings, resignations, impeachments.

Running parallel or within WHIG is the importance of bringing Brewster-Jennings Assoc down.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

42. Someone at the WH asked for it

[Garbo 2004]

43. Multiple sources as a result of the OVP's requests for info re: Wilson and his trip to Niger.

OVP (Office of the Vice President) contacted State in late May and CIA in June 2003 for info. (This info previously came out in Libby's indictment, pretrial motions and documents, and also testimony at trial by Grossman, formerly of the State Dept, and Grenier of the CIA.)

State Dept had been involved in researching (and debunking) the Niger claims. Grossman at State Dept asks for info from State staff and gets info/memo which includes mention of Valerie Wilson, a CIA WMD manager, at the Feb 19, 2002 meeting at CIA where it was discussed whether or not to send Joe Wilson to Niger. (State Dept reps present at the meeting didn't think it was necessary to send Wilson since they had already debunked the Niger claims.) This classified State Dept memo contains the info that Grossman will use to verbally brief Libby. The memo is also sent to the OVP, around June 11.

The unclassified State Dept memo, dated June 10, 2003, is available in .pdf format from this direct link: http://truthout.org/imgs.art_01/fordmemo.pdf

This memo also goes to the State Dept's Office of Secty since it's going to the OVP/WH. (That wouldn't be an unusual thing IMO given gov't bureaucracy.) Armitage, the Deputy Secty of State, sees the memo and that's how he knows Wilson's wife works at CIA and allegedly was involved in sending him to Niger. He blabs about Wilson's wife at a June 13 mtg with Bob Woodward who's working on "Plan of Attack." Woodward doesn't publish the info, claims he told Walter Pincus at WaPo who says he doesn't remember Woodward telling him anything. Later (July 8) Armitage mentions it to Novak who does go with it, gets Rove to confirm, according to both Novak and Rove. Armitage is not buddies with the OVP and so far nothing to indicate he was in on the OVP's coordinated plan to attack Wilson. He may have had his own reasons to be irked at Wilson, as David Corn has suggested, without being involved in the OVP's mania about Wilson.

Meanwhile, the CIA also gets back to the OVP in early mid June, briefing Libby about the Niger trip and mentioning Wilson's wife. Likely Cheney also was directly briefed by CIA on this since Libby's notes say Cheney told him that Wilson's wife worked in the CIA's Counterproliferation Division (CPD).

(Larry Johnson has written that it wasn't the May NYT Kristov article mentioning the anonymous ambassador's trip to Niger but the Walter Pincus WaPo article the OVP knew was coming that had the OVP in a Wilson frenzy. Pincus apparently had rattled some cages via his inquiries when he was preparing his article that was published June 12. The gist was that info that didn't support the Administration's agenda toward Iraq was buried and info/claims that did support their agenda, however dubious and false, was put forth as fact by the Administration.)

June 23: Libby meets with Judy Miller, mentions Wilson's wife at CIA. Libby furious with CIA "leakers" likely a reference to the Pincus article and others.

July 7: Libby suddenly uncharacteristically buddies up to Ari and they have lunch. Ari says Libby tells him that Wilson's wife works ii the Counterroliferation Division at CIA.

July 8: Libby meets again with Miller, again mentions Wilson's wife at CIA...working at WINPAC (although Libby had been told by Cheney, according to Libby, that she worked at the Counterproliferation Division in the Directorate of Operations whereas WINPAC was in the Directorate of Intelligence). Libby also leaks still formally classified portions of the Iraq NIE, the ostensible reason for the meeting with Judy.

July 8: Armitage tells Novak about Wilson's wife at CIA. Rove is then Novak's second confirming source "Yeah I heard that too," according to both Novak and Rove. (Note: the Feds were suspicious that the Novak/Rove cooked up a story about their conversation but couldn't prove it since they each confirmed the other's story.)

July 10: Libby calls Russert to complain about Chris Matthews. Libby claims Russert tells him that Wilson's wife works for CIA. This is Libby's initial cover story that he first heard from reporters about Wilson's wife. (Russert later says he didn't know about Wilson's wife until Novak's July column and he and Libby never discussed her.)

July 11: Rove says he meets with Libby and tells Libby that Novak knows about Wilson's wife and intends to publish. Rove claims Libby told him that Russert had told him about Wilson's wife.

It's still not clear when and how Rove first knew about Plame. He was Novak's confirming source on July 8 according to both Novak and Rove . Last that we know Rove still fuzzily claimed he think he first learned of Plame from a journalist but can't remember who or when.

Meantime on July 11, Matt Cooper of Time mag calls Rove and Rove tells him that Wilson's wife works at the CIA.

Also on July 11: During Bush's trip to Africa, Ari Fleischer said he told journos John Dickerson and David Gregory about Wilson's wife. Neither do anything with the info. Dickerson much later publicly writes that Ari didn't mention Wilson's wife, Ari just said to look into the origin of the Niger trip, who really sent Wilson.

July 12: Cooper plays phone tag with Libby and when they connect in addition to giving Cooper an on the record statement that Cheney wrote for Libby, off the record when Cooper tells him he's been told Wilson's wife works at CIA, Libby confirms that: "Yeah, I heard that too."

July 12: Libby has 2 phone conversations with Judy Miller. Follow ups to their previous discussions.

July 14: Novak's column "outs" Valerie Plame.

There's much more info and more coming out in the course of the trial. Much we still don't know and likely won't.

Difficult to determine who among the leakers may have actually known that Valerie Wilson was covert. Info is classified for many reasons. A mention of a CIA employee in a classified memo on the Niger issue in itself doesn't mean that the person is covert, whether under official cover or nonofficial cover (NOC).

Lbby's apparently told that Valerie Wilson was employed in the CIA's Counterproliferation Division and Ari says Libby told him the same. Was everyone in the CPD a NOC? Suspect not. Were all CPD employee's identities classified? We don't know. Should the info have been considered at the miminum sensitive by all these folks until known to be otherwise and not mere fodder for the press? Yes.

Joe Wilson seemed to tend to think (in his book) that Rove didn't know her covert status. Ari may have been highly visible to the public as WH Press guy, but was really a low person on the WH totem pole, it's likely as he claimed didn't know CPD at CIA from his elbow or the potential sensitivity of the info he was told.

So far from what has been made public record, the two most likely in a position to learn or be able to figure out the potential sensitivity of her identity would be those with the most authority to get the info and who had been riding the CIA for info for a long time: Cheney and Libby. They'd been involved in intel matters for years and were quite familiar with the CIA, its structure and operations (enough I'd wager that Libby would not accidently "mistake" CPD with WINPAC as he did in his conversation with Judy Mller). That Cheney and Libby knew or had reason to know that Plame's identity was a sensitive matter and had an obligation to check whether or not it could be released I think is indisputable. (And no, Cheney did not have the authority to declassify a CIA officer's covert identity and, contrary to some posters' assumptions in some of these threads, neither Libby or Cheney have claimed the OVP had such authority or did so.)

We still don't know about other possible sources of info. Or who else was playing telephone with the press on this matter. We haven't heard in public court docs much of anything as I recall regarding NSC staff. Anyone there who may have (previously) known of Valerie Wilson nee Plame in her earlier CIA employment? Novak claims he got the name "Plame" from "Who's Who." (Recall when he walked off a CNN program on the air when he saw a copy of "Who's Who" on the anchor's desk?) Did Novak actually search for info, learned Wilson's maiden name and just decided to use it in his column or was he fed her old name by one of his sources and just ran with it.

Anyway, there were several sources for Plame's identity that we know of and likely still others we do not. What we do know so far is that it was the Office of the Vice President that was making the inquiries that led to the info about Wilson's wife's employment at the CIA being disseminated to and within the OVP/WH and to certain members of the media.

[kestrel91316]

32. Hey, Ari - what part of TREASON IN WARTIME don't you get???

[leftofthedial]

33. so apparently we need to throw the whole cabal in the hole

[radfringe]

34. WHAT DATE DID ARI SAY HE HEARD IT FROM LIBBY?

Pincus said he learned her identity July 12, 2003

WHEN DID ARI say he heard it from Libby?

[Garbo 2004]

45. July 7. n/t

[JNelson6563]

40. This was a team effort

like all neo-con efforts. Slimey bastards.

Julie

[SoCalDem]

41. That long plane trip to Africa was pivotal in setting up the "Get Wilson" strategy.

I have looked and looked, but never found a list of the press pool with them on that trip..

[The Backlash Cometh]

48. Has anyone put together a timetable to follow the source of the plume?

[SoCalDem]

49. The trip to Africa was the day after the Wilson column(IIRC)

Many hours on a plane with nothing to fill the time but to coordinate schemes..

Snakes on a Plane...set on outing a Plame

[The Backlash Cometh]

51. "Snakes on a Plane"

LOL!

[SoCalDem]

52. Here's his Africa schedule, but

http://www.state.gov/p/af/rls/rm/c8212.htm

I have never been able to find out who was with him..
I have a feeling that some of the "rahpordurs" we all know were there with him, being spoonfed tidbits of info..

[Canuckistanian]

53. It's the death penalty for you, Ari

Too bad your special immunity deal only applied to YOUR testimony.

Make a will, say goodbye to the wife and kids. You're toast.

[lovuian]

56. pig n poke

and he needs to go to the poke