Help me understand a few things about Hillary's health plan

[Lyric]

I've read through the plan, as posted on her campaign website. I don't understand how it will work for me and my domestic partner.

I am a full-time college student, with a seven-year-old little boy. I don't work outside of the home because (1)I'm in school during the same hours that my son is in school, and (2) the "evening" jobs available in my city are all low-income, barely above minimum wage, which means the cost of paying for childcare, transportation, etc. would eat up whatever meager paycheck I might earn. We don't have a car, and there is no bus service to our part of town after 5:00 pm, so I wouldn't have a way to and from work even if I *did* find a miraculous well-paying evening job. So it makes more sense for me to stay home and focus all of my attention in the evenings on caring my our son, and keeping up with my own homework.

My domestic partner works *two* jobs--one early mornings, and one in the evenings, both part-time. She has health insurance through her morning job, but there are no domestic-partner benefits, so my son and I receive Medicaid. I'm grateful that West Virginia's DHHR (social services) considers going to college full-time as an acceptable "work-related" activity, which allows me to get Food Stamps without a 20-hour per week "work requirement".

So under Hillary's health plan, we'd all be required to obtain and keep health insurance, and we'd get "tax credits" to help us pay for it. But we don't pay taxes, because we're poor. Is the tax credit in Hillary's plan refundable, like the EITC? And if not, how does it address the situations of people like us?

Any help understanding this would be greatly appreciated.

[panader0]

1. You got me. I don't know that much about it.

But I do know that I can't be "required" to buy insurance because I can't afford it. I'm still hoping for universal free insurance.

[groovedaddy]

3. Anything less is a slap in the face!

I get suspicious of any politician who takes money from an industry and then rights a plan that requires me to do business with that industry.
Medical care should be a non-profit endeavor, government subsidized.

[Demeter]

2. It Won't Work For You, or for Me and My Family, Either

It is designed to work for insurance companies, only! It won't even work for hospitals, doctors, and nursing homes. It's very precisely targetted to avoid all those who need help and just pay off the financiers.

[Donkeykick]

4. Best wishes to you and the people...

you care about.

Going to Hillary's site, I did see that you can receive the very same plan that Congress has, which to me sounds pretty good! I don't know of any others that could outdo that one.

It may be worth your while to get a job--any one really--just to start paying taxes in order to receive the tax credits. (That is if Hillary gets in and implements this plan.):shrug:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

16. "Access" to the Congressional plan...

doesn't mean that you can afford it.

And this whole "get a job so you can get the tax credit" stuff -- what a crock. You have to have the money upfront to pay for your insurance -- what the hell good is a tax credit if you don't have the money in the first place to pay for health insurance???? Hillary's plan has the potential to leave a lot of people like myself and the original poster in the lurch.

On edit: BTW, the irony you show by your signature line combined with your choice of candiates is almost off the charts.

[supernova]

17. Exactly why I don't like Hil's plan

Any plan where the individual is required to pay upfront is part of the same problem we have now.

[CTyankee]

28. Does this sound like it would apply to the OP's situation?

Strengthen Medicaid and CHIP: The Plan will fix the holes in the safety net to ensure that the most vulnerable populations receive affordable, quality care.

That is one part of HC's plan. Is this the part that would cover her? It is short on specifics at this point but seems to be apropos. Right?

[MrMickeysMom]

5. I can't add to your understanding because you've validated my points about her plan!

Yours is an example of someone who falls through the cracks and not supported by her so-called health plan. I was trying to point t his out under political discussions yesterday. This is very frustrating. How can you support a candidate who basically knows better, and won't offer better?

Well, I can't. And, it looks like you, who are trying to enter that magical world of how we get health care - a controlled "benefit" through an employer based, corporately controlled scheme, would become screwed.

That is not acceptable. Therefore, HRC's health plan is shameful, just like her pandering to special interests is shameful.

We deserve better!

[Donkeykick]

7. If Hillary did make it in...

and got her plan into effect, all that person (that started this thread) would need to do is get any kind of job, pay taxes, and receive the credits.

Do you know of any other Democratic candidate that has a better plan?

[tnlurker]

8. Dennis Kucinich

[Donkeykick]

10. OK.

And his plan would be? I did give a URL to Hillary's site.

[MrMickeysMom]

9. Oh, that's "all the OP would have to do"? Listen to what you've just said-

You assume just obtaining employment (which we have no idea how the level of benefits are commensurate) she would have after finishing school offsets what she deals with now at 150 or 200% over the poverty line to be eligible, I don't know. But, the point is, if she's lucky between now, graduation and gainful employment with benefits, she may have some benefits- maybe. Have you compared single versus family deductions? What do people do who are either in between or ineligible for health care do? You seem indifferent to the timeframe and what one bad episode of care can cost out of pocket. It's enough to push families out on the street. Are the time frames between the state dropping her kids' Medicaid and new employer benefits still going to offset time and money needed so she can get childcare and same level of benefits for her child? Maybe. Would she generate enough salary to equal the amount offset in tax credits to have the money for childcare or a privately run plan? That is the biggest mystery, if you read HRC's plan.

Since 2003, Dennis Kucinich has been trying to introduce legislation for basically extending Medicare, which has a 10% overhead to run, compared to the corporately run, cherry picking plans under private industry, requiring 30% overhead. He's not been the only one talking about this, but the only one in the running.

Why are we ignoring his ideas (never passed, of course) that basically extends Medicare to all which have slowly been seeping into other candidates speech? They give vague lip service because corporations are in the drivers' seat to control how it's doled out. Why is it always dependent on employment, or beyond the costs of anyone who COULD save their money and buy groceries at the same time?

Hillary Clinton, once upon a time UNDESTOOD this. What happened?

[Donkeykick]

11. If you think that what Dennis...

just said here is going to work, may I suggest that you tap your ruby slippers three times and make another wish? Even Dennis alludes to the fact on how powerful lobbying will be when it comes to this issue. Does he not think that insurance companies will not fight over this--just like AARP? Besides that, America is pretty much turned off when it comes to the government taking complete control over anything. No matter which choice is made, you're going to find out that big business will get in to government and try to rearrange the system anyways--even when Hillary is long gone after her tenure.

At least with her plan you're getting the very same health care that our lawmakers are getting--something of which there is nothing available that can beat that now!

Here is just one example that I like: (from the site that I provided in this post.)

Insurance companies won't be able to deny you coverage or drop you because their computer model says you're not worth it. They will have to offer and renew coverage to anyone who applies and pays their premium. And like other things that you buy, they will have to compete for your business based on quality and price. Families will have the security of knowing that if they become ill or lose their jobs, they won't lose their coverage.

[Selatius]

12. Technically speaking, it would work, but on the other hand, politics clouds the issue.

Mainly, corporate special interest money that would stand in the way of such a reform to a single-payer format. You'd need another FDR to pass what Kucinich is advocating, in all likelihood.

[Donkeykick]

18. And...

people (US citizens) that would have that very same frame of mind like the ones did back during FDR's time. ;)

[MrMickeysMom]

14. Your hypertext links make my point

Forget the ruby slippers... you write as if we should just as well bend over and grab our heels while taking it up the ass. Okay, your point above is that insurance companies won't deny coverage. My point still is- why do we need to keep jumping through rising premium costs that do not provide affordable health care- the right of every citizen in this country? Why shouldn't we have a government run health care plan? Both Medicare and the VA are examples of efficiently run health care systems run their programs far more efficiently and effectively over private insurance based plans.

And this is a stunner statement you make-

"Besides that, America is pretty much turned off when it comes to the government taking complete control over anything."

What an unfounded statement. That is an absolute lie. Ask how many Americans would want to give up their Medicare? Go ahead- ask them and see what they say. What absolute crap.

Now, it's time to recognize who I'm talking to because this is absolute bullshit. Who am I speaking to here? Are you someone who can evaluate a health care plan as a part of the working class and a member of DU or are you someone who feels compelled to repeat this bullshit on behalf of HRC's campaign. MEDICARE IS THE MOST POPULAR AND SUCCESSFUL HEALTH CARE PLAN.

Unbelievable.

[Donkeykick]

15. Reply

Unfounded?! Unfounded, indeed! When I was saying that, I was referring to government taking complete control by telling businesses--such as insurance or any others--how they can conduct the whole aspects of their businesses by forcing them to comply to certain uncomfortable circumstances. Hillary's plan only compels businesses to work like they should--to compete more, which would cause prices to drop in a more realistic manner; the way capitalism should work, in my opinion. Those that can not play with the big dogs would have to get off of the porch!

You want proof of how popular Hillary's plan is over the rest of the candidates? OK, here it is.

Poll: Dems Back Clinton On Health Care
CBS News Poll: Primary Voters Say Hillary Clinton Can Handle Health Care Better Than Rivals>

(And an answer to your question is: no. Do you work for Dennis's campaign?)

[Lone_Star_Dem]

20. I'd like to point out that the link to the poll you posted is irrelevant

The polling was done before Hillary's health care plan was released. It just happened to be published on the same day she released her plan.

[Donkeykick]

21. Well...

I don't know anything about that, but even if what you say is right, you would still have to agree to one thing: Democratic voters still trust Hillary when it comes to this issue over the rest of the Democratic candidates.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

24. Read the article you linked to

It is quite obvious that it was from September 17th. They day of her grand unveiling.

Just because it says, "Forty-nine percent say Clinton would do a better job on health care than her Democratic opponents," before her proposal doesn't even mean they will hold that belief after they've had time to digest her proposal.

It's irresponsible to link that poll to her proposal in any way. The two are simply not related.

[Donkeykick]

35. It's Irresponsible?!

Here you have an article unequivocally stating that most voting Democrats prefer Hillary on the issue on health care--and this is before she releases her plan--and you call this irresponsible?

I guess that you have a lot of irresponsible Democratic voters out there--if what you say is true. :eyes:

(BTW: I most definitely do not think that they are.);)

[Lone_Star_Dem]

36. You attempted to assert that the poll implied something it did not

Yes, that's irresponsible.

Permit me to remind you of your quote, "You want proof of how popular Hillary's plan is over the rest of the candidates? OK, here it is."

No, it is not.

Changing the point after the fact does not change what you said.

[Donkeykick]

37. Ahh...

But you're also missing the forest because of a tree, too, my friend! ;)

As Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton unveils her health care plan today, Democratic primary voters express more confidence in her ability to handle health care than in her chief Democratic rivals, Senator Barack Obama and former Senator John Edwards, a new CBS News poll finds.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

38. No, you're trying to change what you originally asserted

;)

[Donkeykick]

39. Oh, Not At All.

The people thought her plan was going to be great before they even read it.

Like I said: Don't let a tree cause you less enjoyment of the whole forest.;)

[Lone_Star_Dem]

40. Now you're a mind reader, too

:rofl: Cute.

They only reason I ever pointed out your error to you was because it defeats your point to make false claims.

Stick to facts and people will respect your opinion more.

Oh, and the tree analogy, it just doesn't apply in this situation.

[MrMickeysMom]

26. No, I don't work for Dennis Kucinich's campaign, but I do have something ...

that you don't have- the ability to to evaluate the best chance for the United States to conduct the best health care policy- and it ain't under Hillary Clinton.

Your proof is basically a :puffpiece:

Your diatribe on "government taking complete control by telling business..." says enough about your marketing skills.

I'm done making my points (pretty pointless) to a person who is just marketing the DU populous here. There's little substance, so I thank you for your enthusiasm- looks like you'll have to learn the rest your own way.

Hey, don't forget to keep track of the answers you receive when asking people to give up their Medicare.

:hi:

[Donkeykick]

33. I won't.

If it is any consolation to you, if Dennis does take the Primary and runs for the Democratic Party in the General election, I will vote for him. Take Care. ;) :toast: :hi:

[CTyankee]

27. Why wouldn't the OP remain on Medicaid with Hillary's plan?

Does Medicaid disappear? It would seem logical that for people like the OP, there would have to be a Medicaid option, at least as a temporary measure before she graduates and gets a better paying job. It doesn't seem right that she would have to quit school and take a job just for benefits she gets already.

[Warpy]

6. Since you're destitute, you'd keep Medicaid

However, should you take a minimum wage job during the summer, you'll blow that Medicaid eligibility and be forced to buy for profit health insurance. I'm sure the big boys can come up with something with a deductible that's high enough that the premiums won't take more than, say, a third of your paycheck. They're not heartless, you know.

At the end of the year when you file your taxes, you'll get a whopping credit that will cover a fraction of your premium cost. That's the GOP contribution to the plan.

In the meantime, because of that high deductible, you'll be paying all expenses out of pocket unless one of you is lucky enough to get hit by a bus, in which case the insurance company might pay. I say might, because her plan has no mechanism to ensure that they do pay instead of fattening their bottom line by denying payment or denying care or both.

Her plan will work marvelously for people with six figure incomes, of course, and that seems to be her voter base. Too bad there aren't enough of them left to elect her.

[SoCalDem]

23. and when a nosy "someone" finds out you "have money for internet access"

they might just say ..no more health care for you if you "can afford" that luxury :evilgrin:

[Lyric]

30. I don't have money for internet access

We pick up the University's free public wi-fi signal :)

[Individualist]

13. Her plan benefits insurance companies far more than the insured

[MyNameGoesHere]

19. I was not aware

that the Congress had passed her health plan.

[SoCalDem]

22. The basics..

1. "someone" would determine your eligibility/ability to pay
2. "requires" you to have coverage (the type & efficacy would be up to you)
3. "deductibility" would be an issue for many

It's almost worse than nothing, since many marginally poor people would lose eligibility for the free/reduced-price plans they may have now..

It ADDS more paperwork layers and MORE subjectivity

It gives fence-sitter employers to option to "pay a fine" and drop employer-aided plans like a hot potato..

It gives the appearance of being real coverage, while merely transferring more money into the pockets of the insurers & HMOs..

Like a frosted balloon cake.. Looks great for the pictures, but cut into it and all you get is frosting all over your face..

[Swamp Rat]

25. Her plan does not include me.

I guess I am just supposed to die quietly.

[napi21]

29. I think you're asking for details that haven't been worked out yet.

What do you have now? If you have a low enough income to be eligible for medicaid, I suspect you would retain that eligibility. Your son should be eligible for SCHIP. NO CANDIDATE had a plan worked out in fine enough detail to accurately answer your question YET.

Even Dennis who wants to just expand Medicare to everyone isn't detaied enough. My husband just became eligibel for Medicare on Aug. 1st this year. He was taken to the ER last Thursday because they suspected a heart attack. Tank God they were wrong, and it turned out to be inflamed ribs, but I've been told there is a $995 deductible (they think) that we must satisfy before Medicare will pay ANYTHING. Is THAT what you people are really looking for?

[Lyric]

31. Really, I was just wondering how a tax credit would help people

who don't pay federal income taxes. I'm not anti-Hillary--just wondering if I had missed some aspect that others might have more information about.

[napi21]

32. I'm not sure about this, but if someone doesn't pay any FIT, wouldn't

they be eligible for Medicaid? I sure don't want to try to speak for any of the candidates, but as I understand it, most of the new changes proposed by Hillary & Edwards wouldn't affect the very low income people.

[Froward69]

34. sellout to insurance.

[retread]

41. She's way ahead in the polls. n/t