"Why hard work doesn't pay"

[Deja Q]

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/LearnToBudget/WhyJoeSixPackCantGetAhead.aspx

I'd like to say a few words about the futility of work.

I'm serious.

Take a look around. Today, we're all 24/7, strutting with BlackBerrys and Bluetooths, miles from the long-lost desk and office, not to mention home. At the risk of being rude, I'm wondering if all this frenzied effort pays off.

We know it does for some.

If it didn't, Starbucks and Whole Foods would not exist. There wouldn't be enough people who can afford $3 for a cup of coffee or $2.69 a pound for free-range organic chicken.

But the operative word here is "some." It's time for Joseph Vineyard, the trendy guy who eats free-range chicken, to meet Joe Six-Pack.

If you look at the averages, the statistics give a simple message: Hard work does not equate to economic progress. It hasn't for decades. We may need hard work to keep body and soul together -- not to mention pay the Visa bill -- but average-worker paychecks clearly show that inflation continues to trump wage gains for most American workers.
Losing ground to retirees
This is not a recent problem. Twenty years ago I wrote a column titled "The coming war between generations." It showed that the average worker had lost ground to inflation from 1970 to 1987. The same worker was also losing ground to retirees because the average retiree Social Security benefit was also rising faster than workers' wages.

Since workers pay the bills for Social Security recipients, that's not a healthy situation.

Article has a lot more, but to sum the article up:

What does it all mean?

Simple. We face two fundamental issues: health-care costs and average paychecks. Until one goes down and the other goes up, we've got a problem.

The paychecks part isn't as big as the health care costs problem. Unions bash companies for more health care funds. Employers fire workers because of health care costs. Politicians vote 'nay' to bills because of costs.

Well, it seems to me the health care industry is the crux of every facet to this situation. Yet all the media, political, union, and other people of power like to look everywhere else.

Is the health care industry ran by people who made the Mafia look compassionate by comparison?

[annabanana]

1. (maybe if the retirees would just DIE a little faster?)

The insurance industries are doing their part, God knows.

[jdlh8894]

10. I hope that was sarcasm

[raccoon]

12. Hey, maybe bird flu will rear its head. Or its wings.. :sarcasm: nt

[Lasher]

15. And we would appreciate it if they would be polite enough to expire quietly.

"The same worker was also losing ground to retirees because the average retiree Social Security benefit was also rising faster than workers' wages."

What's this, a zero-sum horserace with hard working twenty somethings pitted against greedy old blue-hairs? The old geezers and disabled workers are getting rich on their Social Security handouts of $962.70 a month and yet they dare expect cost of living increases to keep up with inflation? They sure have their nerve.

[jdlh8894]

41. Lasher, From one born and raised in WV,

My Mother and I thank you for your comments. Again, THANK YOU!!!!

[Lasher]

44. And who did you root for when WVU played their last 2 bowl games?

I'll bet I know.

Come on back. The leaves will be turning soon.

Good luck to you and your mother.

[jdlh8894]

50. Old Gold and Blue

Who else? I was raised on the top row @ the 50 yd. line @ Mountaineer Field. Haven't been to the new one yet. Not sure if I want to. It took out the golf course that I loved
Thanks for the concern about Mom. Much appreciated

[Kajsa]

62. My son's SSI is less than that.

His monthly benefit is $840./mo.

Oh yeah, that'll get you an apartment in SoCal,
for sure.

:sarcasm:

[Lasher]

63. Yes, I know many get less than the average I cited.

Hit the link I supplied if you want to know more.

Hang in there, there's a good chance we'll have a Democratic president and congress in 2009. We've got a lot of things to make right and I hope your son's situation will be thereby improved.

[Kajsa]

65. Thanks!

I appreciate your kind words
and support.

:pals:

[kineneb]

67. that is for one person

try living "well" on $1238 for two people (SSDI), when only one adult qualifies for Medicaid. I have a $280 (per month!) medical share-of-cost, which really means I have no medical coverage. And one of my medications is $115 per 30 pills... not covered and not available as samples.

[Lasher]

72. If I had my wish...

you would not have to pay a dime for medical care, and that includes prescriptions. One thing that infuriates me is we could all have single-payer universal healthcare, and there would be no net cost, mainly due to the savings of eliminating insurance company middlemen. That wouldn't solve all of life's problems for you but it sure would help.

If we get a Democratic president and congress next year I have a very fond hope that this would happen.

Hang in there. Positive vibes from me to you and yours.

:hug:

[Kajsa]

80. That's outrageous!

That's not enough for one person,
let along two!

:grr:

Hang in there, a Democrat in the WH should
definitely help.

[cutlassmama]

92. LOL, my son's is $603/month. Needless to say, at 21 he still

lives at home

[Kajsa]

93. Next year, that will be his benefit amount, too.

He's been in the Bridges program for SSI/SSDI
which will end next year.

It allowed him to keep more of his benefits.

The program will end because they were hoping
to get "people off the rolls", which they didn't.

New Flash, SSA- If people are disabled and can't
work full time, that's not going to change because
a program was implemented.

SSA is something else!

My son, 23, lives at home too.

HUD was the only way out but there is no safe housing
that accepts it around here.

Hang in there, Cutlassmama
I'm right there with you.

:pals:

[NMMNG]

64. Them, the disabled, the veterans,

and all other "burdens on the system". Who needs anybody who can't work and do their part to contribute? :sarcasm:

[Deja Q]

82. Define work?

There are radio DJs who get big salaries - what exactly is their contribution, except report news and tabloid garbage that anyone else can (and do) say? Especially when they in turn also ask others what 'contribution' is...

But, true, it's almost interesting how these "compassionate conservatives" act so dis-compassionate.

[lastliberalintexas]

73. And do so without any lengthy hospital or nursing home stays

Wouldn't want to have to waste that money on someone who's dying anyway, now would we?

[Postman]

2. Maybe if our tax dollars went to social needs instead of militant ones we'd be better off...

eom

[Deja Q]

32. We already do that.

Corporations get big government subsidy (welfare) and tax incentives for offshoring jobs. Some of them also house their HQs offshore to avoid paying taxes too.

[HughBeaumont]

3. "Work HARD, be patient, and you'll SUCCEED!"

NO. That is bullshit. That is a cliche and a WHOPPER of a lie.

My dad worked hard for 40 years. All he got out of it was two kidney operations, three layoffs, a defibrilator, shaky hands, tons of meds and a soon-to-be-cut-in-half pension.

At least he was "lucky" enough that his "layoff" meant he would return to the same job when business picked up, whereas our layoff means "get the fuck out" with security escorting you from the building with everyone staring as if you embezzled money from the company or something.

I believe hard work is about a 5% determinant of a person's success in life; with personality, connections, luck and family fortune having far more to do with it.

Once upon a time, I had goals.

That was an idealistic time long ago, before Dumberica elected a president that enacted policies to help the not-in-need-of-help rich and rape the dwindling middle class.

That was before I got fired three times.

That was before the stock market tanked and really never recovered it's volatility.

That was before I spent 12 hours a day commuting to and from and working at my current job.

Oh, and then there's coming home, preparing dinner, making sure my Aspbergers-having kid gets his 3-5 hours of homework done to please his corporate cubeslave training camp masquerading as a junior high, clean somewhat, take the dogs out, come on this site . . . after all this, I have to get up and do it all over again.

I don't have time for goddamned GOALS.

I'm just trying to make it through the day without going on a shooting rampage, and I'm quite positive I'm not alone.

Goals can't predict the future or the landmines the middle class always seem to have to navigate through.

Unhappiness is everywhere. Coming to work in prison-grey walls, having the worst luck with bosses that you can stand to be around, nothing but rote busywork 94% of the time, hard long work with nothing but average review points to show for it, poor air quality, depression medication, very little vacation, working longer hours than ever while getting paid the same as our 1970's counterparts (factoring inflation) . . . I could just go on and on but I'm in a bad enough mood as it is.

Ted Rall had a comic once where a man is sitting in prison and next to him is an almost identical picture of a man sitting in a cube. Same environment, really. Only difference is the pay.

[raccoon]

14. I agree with you for the most part on this,

"I believe hard work is about a 5% determinant of a person's success in life; with personality, connections, luck and family fortune having far more to do with it. "

I'd say hard work is a bit more than 5%. But those other factors certainly enter into it.

Anyone can be making good bucks, then be knocked down by a disability.

[kineneb]

70. illness or disability: from middle-class to poverty level in almost an instant

been there, done that,
wearing cheap and give-away tee-shirts,
driving car with 150K miles and a cracked windshield,
getting free "food" each month at the give-away,

have given up on "American Dream".

Expect to be poor for rest of life.

Not how I expected things to go. Sigh.

[nannah]

51. you are so right. and most of your future is determined by elements

present when you are born: the wealth and education of your family; the genetic code determining intelligence, physical characteristics, general health, and neurological constuct; the times and emotional environment of your birth family.

we like to slide over these uncomfortable realities because it doesn't fit with our "anyone can do anything they set their mind to" mantra.

you are right that hard work isn't a key factor in economic security for most people; many people in america are hard and diligent workers all their lives; but they can lose everything if they fall ill or are hurt and become disabled.

[lastliberalintexas]

74. It's mostly an elaborate shell game

played to keep workers in line. And the 2% of the world who control everything laugh all the way to the bank.

[misanthrope]

91. Well, the guy in the cube can at least quit when he wants...

...and probably doesn't experience as much violent rape.

[mondo joe]

4. Obviously, hard work alone will not make you a top wage earner - smart work is also

required. Luck will also do.

[Deja Q]

28. Well, guessing by the H1B couple outside of my window,

all the jobs we offshore aren't going to smart workers either.

[12string]

5. hard work

I can't remember the source but I remember reading somewhere
that the caveman,in order to feed,clothe and provide shelter
for his family had an average work week of 20 hours.Of course
he had no health insurance or retirement plan.

[yellowdogintexas]

6. and a life expectancy of about 30? nt

[Deja Q]

16. Noah lived over 600 years and still had time to build a boat...

How he managed to put in non-dimorphic species is another question, however...

[hunter]

48. That number is without meaning.

Pre-industrial, pre-agricultural people living in favorable environments had a pretty good shot at living a long time once they made it past the rough spots -- mostly infancy, and for women, childbirth.

There's a reason we live a long time compared to other animals our size: it's because having experienced older people around improved the biological fitness of everyone in the community.

When we started doing reckless stuff like hunting large dangerous animals, depending on a very limited range of agricultural products, living in cities, fighting ideological wars, etc., that's when life expectancies plummeted, and the workload increased.

I think a twenty hour work week is what we should be shooting for in any sustainable economy -- enough for shelter, food, education, and healthcare. Beyond that you tend to get warlords of various sorts using the excess "productive" capacity of a society to gain political power at the expense of of the people they claim to represent.

We've manage to screw up the ecology of an entire planet because of a misguided "work ethic" promoted by people who use the falsehood as a means of amassing political power. We work in the coal mines and shop in the company stores while the wealthy owners amass fortunes and live removed from the squalor behind the walls of their palaces.

[truedelphi]

53. Anthropologists who studied the Native Americans responsible

For building of the Mounds in the MidWest decided that only one third of their time was spent
securing their lives - that is, building their shelters, finding cooking and storing their food, dealing with herbal remedies, hunting, fishing, etc.

The other two thirds of their time was spent on dance, music, song, hanging out with the kids etc.

Not too shabby!

I don't remember how long that period of prosperity lasted but it sounds ideal.
And of course it had to HAPPEN BEFORE THE CORPORATE MASTERS CAME ALONG.

[truedelphi]

56. Here's a peek at one such area where "uncivilized" humans excelled at life

By Michelle Delio
Wired News
10-22-4// FROM WIRED NEWS

COLLINSVILLE, Illinois -- A thousand years ago along the banks of the Mississippi River, in what is currently southeast Illinois, there was a city that now mystifies both archeologists and anthropologists.

At its zenith, around A.D. 1050, the city that is now called Cahokia was among the largest metropolitan centers in the world. About 15,000 people lived in the city, with another 15,000 to 20,000 residing in its surrounding "suburbs" and outlying farmlands. It was the region's capital city, a place of art, grand religious rituals and science.

But by 1300, the city had become a ghost town, its carefully built structures abandoned and its population dispersed.

Archeologists continue to comb what is now the Cahokia Mounds State Historic Site, looking for clues that will tell them what happened here -- why the city and its culture vanished and why the people who lived here built more than a hundred earthen mounds, many of which are still scattered across the countryside.

[yellowdogintexas]

71. that is a neat place, by the way. There is another one upstream

on the Ohio near Newburgh, Indiana. Both are fascinating. And no knowledge of why they vanished.

[misanthrope]

90. Best bet is likely drought, disease or pestilence.**nm

**

[The2ndWheel]

7. We do have an aging population problem coming up

With no previous example to go by.

People aren't needed as much, since more work is being automated. Which is fine since we'll have fewer people working(unless the official retirement age is raised). But with fewer people working, and/or more people making less money(since we're not as needed), where does the money come from to pay for everything taxes pay for?

Then there are the health care costs. If we live longer, they have to go up. If we have more people living longer, they have to go up. If we have fewer people working as they live longer, they have to go up.

The only way we can sustain this is if more people work longer. With aging/steady populations, that means you have to import people. That either takes away the best and the brightest from those other countries, or just takes a ton of people away from those other countries. Either way, you're sucking energy from those other countries to keep this country growing. As long as the 3rd world stays a 3rd world, we can keep doing that. However, if we want to improve standards of living in 3rd world countries, that will mean fewer people. If we have fewer people, we won't grow. If we don't grow, entropy catches up to us. If entropy catches up to us, we'll have a lot of problems.

So we need more people working longer in their lives, but at the same time we need to have fewer children because more people impacts the environment. We need to bring the standard of living up all around the world, yet lessen our impact on the environment at the same time. Basically everyone has to be able to have everything, and our habitat needs to remain intact. Not sure how we'll be able to do it.

[Deja Q]

35. Which is one reason I'm not entirely against offshoring.

The more scientists and engineers humanity has, that's great.

So why are America's scientists and engineers being dumped like week old milk? Globalization suggests expansion, but so far we've only seen migration of jobs. Not expanding them to more. Just moving; taking and giving. Talk about a redistribution of wealth.

And as I've said before, India's cost of living makes the lower wages as much a godsend to them, hence their ability to build a middle class and put up restaurants named "Hitler's Cross" too. America cannot compete until our cost of living matches theirs. In a globalized economy.

[jdlh8894]

43. It's not just global

From where I sit, there are 12 golf courses (in 3 different counties)w/in a 10 mile radius. Starting hourly wage (to ANYONE) will range from $9-$18/hr. Not based on expierience,just what county you work in.

[The2ndWheel]

46. Because we can't have everything

Simple answer, but, we can't.

"So why are America's scientists and engineers being dumped like week old milk? Globalization suggests expansion, but so far we've only seen migration of jobs. Not expanding them to more. Just moving; taking and giving. Talk about a redistribution of wealth."

It is a give and take. We don't need more scientists and engineers because it doesn't take as many to get the job done, and they cost a lot. Like you said, in India it's a little different. They're just starting, and they have a lot of people. When more people aren't needed in India, we'll see the same thing happen there.

"America cannot compete until our cost of living matches theirs. In a globalized economy."

This is the problem in a universal, one-size-fits-all world. A) What do we get if we win the competition? B) Can the competition ever end? C) In a globalized economy, who are we competing against?

Seems to me that in our relentless quest for efficiency, we're competing to make ourselves obsolete. Most Americans have already done that. We don't do much, other than consume mass produced products that are cheap enough where you don't need a high paying job to pay for it.

[eridani]

85. I have yet to hear of anybody arguing that h1b jobs should be eliminated

The point is to control the issuance of that kind of visa.

[truedelphi]

61. I very much think that we are lied to on the idea of living longer

Segments of our population ArE living longer. A woman who is now 93 years old can easily live another five years and even ten years and that is expensive.

But the generations born after 1945 or so are having their ranks depleted by cancer and immune diseases. SO people from "the Greatest" Generation are using their social security - but people younger than that are dying of diseases for which there are no cures - and their money in the social security system does not go to heirs but to the long-lived.

I'm in my fifties - and every single other fifty something I know knows at least one other perosn in their fifties dying from cancer.

It's epidemic and actuaries will tell you that it is going to affect the statistics significantly.

My parents' generation is the last to see the long long lives.

[Theres-a]

84. Heart attacks,too.

I agree with you on all points.

[demnan]

8. Working hard doesn't pay

Kissing ass pays sometimes - that and knowing people.

If you work hard and study hard and have a skill you can barely make it in today's society barring these other factors.

[Deja Q]

26. While I've seen ads and articles saying 'for offshoring, look for specific skills',

in America, I've only seen patterns for having one's employees being a loose "jack of all trades"; know a little of everything, but know everything about nothing. and even knowing everything about everything doesn't matter, they demand all knowledge be shared, for "efficiency".

Then the employees are laid off for being redundant. :D

(And why aren't the freeper trolls asking "If liberals aren't running the show, how come all this is happening?". :D )

[jdlh8894]

9. "Why hard work doesn't pay"

Maybe it's because some people want more than they can afford. JMO

[Deja Q]

18. I see your point, but did you read the article and others' responses?

[NMMNG]

68. Maybe some people just want to survive

Life is expensive, and many jobs don't pay a living wage.

[fasttense]

11. Neither Social Security or Wages kept up with inflation

The inflation numbers have been fudged by our corrupt government. What the inflation numbers actually measure is survival levels. That is how much more it costs just to barely survive in the US. So now retirees can eat dog food instead of ground beef and our workers can barely support their families.

Welcome to the benefits of fascism.

[jdlh8894]

13. Actually,dog food is more expensive than ground beef eom

[Deja Q]

19. And neither is good for the human digestive system...

Especially if it's imported from countries with obscene track records regarding product quality.

[RandomKoolzip]

17. Look for the freepers to come out in droves for this thread.

Freepers LOVE to troll threads about economic injustice - they can post this stuff on their creepy websites and point to it and go "Look! All liberals are lazy whiners!"

[Deja Q]

20. Well, they're entitled to their hobbies just as much as the rest of us.

:D

[RandomKoolzip]

23. Masturbating while staring at their gun collection is a "hobby" now?

:shrug:

[Deja Q]

27. Well, someone needs to have 'rifle envy'...

:hide:

[Kajsa]

21. They are being screwed, too.

The problem is, many of them don't see it
or don't want to admit it.

:shrug:

[RandomKoolzip]

25. Yeah, and that's the really sad part.

SO many of them are working class, and as screwed as those they insult, but they refuse to fight against the real, common enemy. Instead they'd rather insult those in the same boat because of their views on social issues like flag burning and abortion.

Terribly, terribly sad.

[Kajsa]

38. Yes, it is very sad.

I wish they could see the big picture.

[Lasher]

47. Republicans' economic performance sucks.

Historical records make this abundantly clear. They like to talk about tax-and-spend Democratic policies, but they cut taxes then borrow-and-spend more.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20059-2005Apr1.html

Yet they turn themselves inside out with rationalization to avoid facing this truth. This is because their ideologies are a religion to many of them.

[MedleyMisty]

33. Yeah - on another forum I go to

this dude is always posting poems and whining about his life and how it sucks and how it's not fair that people with less talent who do less work make more money. But he also is in love with corporations and thinks social Darwinism is a great idea. I really don't get it.

But then again, it is whining and "Why don't I have a lot of money so I can get my chance to say 'I've got mine, screw you'?" as opposed to actually seeing the big picture and seeing how almost everyone is screwed by the system and who's doing the screwing.

Or maybe it's worse. Maybe he sees that and is okay with it and thinks it's cool and is just all upset because he can't participate in it, and has this cognitive dissonance thing where it's everyone else's fault that they're not rich but in his case it's that the world is against him.

To complete the picture, he would have to think that it's everyone who's not male or white who is against him and keeping him from taking his place as one of the screwers as opposed to one of the screwees. I haven't seen any racism from him, but I have seen the usual bitterness toward women - you know, "It's not my fault that I can't get a supermodel. It's 'cause all women want is money and they're all shallow gold diggers."

Conservatives are really messed up in the head, methinks.

[Kajsa]

37. You're right.

Some of them want a " piece of the pie"
and can't see how the very system they admire
is responsible for their demise.

[Cronopio]

52. As long as they can convince each other that they're doing better than you ...

... even 1% better than you, they think they're up in the world.

They're losers because they don't understand the common cause or the common threat.

[Deja Q]

58. Then why do some, especially those on TV, say we need to stand together as a country, and fight?

[Cronopio]

60. Maybe their definition of "we" is not the same as yours or mine?

The little "we's" versus the big "We" problem.

Or maybe it's just the typical bullshit pseudo-collectivist propaganda that has always been used for individual self-aggrandizement.

[NMMNG]

66. They can suck my

car's exhaust pipe. I work substantial OT, previously worked two full-time jobs, and have done one or the other since I graduated from high school (and have worked since age 14). Lazy my backside.

[RandomKoolzip]

69. No shit.

Then again, we're considered lazy if we complain about about our many jobs, our inability to make a living on what our bosses pay us, or if we see others struggling and notice that things COULD be better for all of us if we think collectively.

I've worked two full time jobs for several years straight, and now I'm back in school and working full-time trying to get those slippery bootstraps tightly coiled around these tired wrists. Many freepers are in the same boat as me, in rising waters, but they refuse to see why this is a highly flawed version of the American Dream they regard so highly. It's a burlesque of the Dream - working two full time jobs and STILL never being able to get ahead? But the freepers don't give a fuck about how any of this is systemic; their individual and anecdotal experiences usually constitute their worldview - like an above poster says, they simply are unwilling or unable to see the "big picture."

Either that, or they think the solution is tax cuts for the wealthy. :eyes: The REALLY dumb ones think they're poor BECAUSE of high taxes. :rofl:

[NMMNG]

77. Indeed

Because working 2 or 3 jobs to survive is "Uniquely American". Apparently CEOs making hundreds of times the pay of their workers for doing very little is too, but we're not supposed to say anything about that.

[zippy890]

22. slaves to the health insurance companies

thats what we are. working our asses off so we can go to the doctor when we need to.

what is it again that makes this country so great? I'm forgetting because I'm so f**king stressed from working this job to keep the health insurance for my family. job that is making me sick because its impossible to do - employer had to downsize and now I'm doing another persons job along with my own.

sucks

[mdmc]

24. I hear you, my friend

God Bless you HT. Peace and low stress...

[Deja Q]

29. Not for me, but for America and its workers in general.

If articles containing comments like

Rohini Hensman, who describes himself as "independent scholar, writer and activist based in India and Sri Lanka," says it's about time the U.S. got its comeuppance.

are the norm, people we're helping are biting our hands in return. I don't think that's very nice of them to do...

[Dora]

30. I think doctors ought to reclaim control over health care.

Why are doctors not at the forefront of a healthcare revolution? As service providers, they are as enslaved to the "health care" corporations as we are as patients.

[Deja Q]

31. They probably get big bonuses if they can keep up with Pfizer's quota demands.

:D

[jdlh8894]

36. Doctors don't think they are service providers

They think "I spent all this money on 10-13 yrs of education" I have to make it back ASAP.

[Deja Q]

39. Ironically, that's a rational thought. Simple ROI.

If you went to school for xx years and paid $yyy,yyy, you'd want to pay it back as soon as possible too. Who doesn't? I'd say it qualifies as "right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness". Who wants to live in debt forever?

But they do provide a service and have to think of their customers too.

[hunter]

49. Doctors need a trade union with teeth.

Too many of them still cling to the notion that they are professionals when in fact they have become simple wage slaves of the healthcare industry.

[annabanana]

83. A lot ofthem are really really trying

http://www.pnhp.org/

Physicians for a National Health Program is a nonprofit organization of 14,000 physicians, medical students and health professionals who support single-payer national health insurance.

[backscatter712]

34. My observations on the world of work are perverse.

As the saying goes, life is a shit sandwich. The more bread you've got, the less shit you have to eat.

When I was in low-pay entry-level jobs, I had to bust my butt constantly. I was micromanaged, the supervisors were always cracking the whip, and you were expected to be productive all the time when you were on the clock. If you slacked off, you were shit-canned for the most petty reasons. You lived in constant fear of being fired.

Now that I've moved up the ladder a ways into the professional arena, not only has my pay multiplied by several times, but the workload has fallen to a fraction of what it was. To quote from Office Space "Well, I generally come in at least fifteen minutes late, ah, I use the side door - that way Lumbergh can't see me, heh heh - and, uh, after that I just sorta space out for about an hour." "Da-uh? Space out?" "Yeah, I just stare at my desk; but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch, too. I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work." Since I started working as a software engineer, I've spent countless hours surfing the web, I play with various toys around the office from Nerf guns to foosball tables to clown bicycles (no, I'm not kidding about the clown bicycle,) I go on walks, I even go to keg parties at the office. And despite all the slacking and playing around, I still manage to get enough done to keep me employed.

The higher up you are in the pecking order, the less hard you have to work. I swear to God, it's true.

[misanthrope]

89. I learned that before I was 20...

...All it takes to learn is keeping your eyes and ears open but few really pay attention anymore.

[redqueen]

40. I hope the trust that so many have in the top tier candidates to fix health care

is well-placed.

[AdvancedProgress]

42. Immediate Expectations

I always found it insane what was expected of a new entry into the workforce right out of the gate:

Rent (eventually mortgage if you're lucky)
Car Payment and Gas
Deposits on utilities
Clothing Costs
Insurance (Auto, Health, Short and Long term disability, life)
Credit Card payments (if you're unlucky)
Federal withholding Taxes (hope you're not single)
Social Security Taxes
Starting a 401(k)
Starting a savings (yeah, right)

all on $20K a year.

oh, and try to find $$$ left over for FOOD.

[BluePatriot]

75. Yeah...

I love the blank stares from boss-types when you talk about cost of living.

I haven't eaten a meal at a table in three years. See, my apartment isn't big enough for one. Plus there's no hot water upstairs when I brush my teeth. And it's a constant struggle to keep out ants and pantry moths despite how neat we are. I work OT, sometimes until 9 pm after showing up at 8:30 AM, I get 100 pct scores on company training exams, I have a college degree with a 3.8 GPA and have stuck around for three years. Why do they, or anyone, imply I'm a entitled brat for wanting to have a wee bit more money so maybe I can live somewhere without bugs, where I can eat at a table? Christ, I don't even expect to own a house or have a new car or anything like that, out of the gate. Why do they just think I should manage my money better, or something? God, they are so detached from reality. Don't they know how much an extra $1-$2 an hour could mean to someone like me?

I think maybe they are out of touch, because they had a little bit more purchasing power at our age. Who knows.

*edit for typo...b/c typos justify my poverty, right? XD

[AdvancedProgress]

76. You're Right

I'm worried I'm gonna have a talk with my kids that will go something like this...

Go to College for four years so someone can hire you paying you SQUAT.
Oh and don't gripe about it, because then you won't get the job.
Enjoy your career son.

[BluePatriot]

79. Good luck...

Trades are good. Actually, if I were a guy, I might have picked up a trade. You get to help people by fixing things and work with your hands and have some (minor) decision-making power over the tasks you do on the job (fix part A, weld seam B, wire plug C...) The only downside is zero bennies, usually.

My dad's family consists of mechanics, carpenters, and electricians. They married women who kept a second job mainly for insurance, for the family. It's a system that works well if the family is OK with it. My parents were able to save up enough to put me through school, so it wasn't a bad life. I think they wanted me to go to school because they never got the chance and thought it was some golden ticket out of the system, or something. Actually, as a young woman, it probably did increase my earnings...to those of a guy my age out of HS a few years, or out of community college. LOL. Beats the alternative, I guess. Oh well. I know I'm not alone at least and so that's a comfort. It helps knowing some things are outside of your control, as much as it stings.

[shimmergal]

88. Unionized trades usually get some

bennies, too.

That's something else we need to start turning around--the current low percentage of unionized employees in the work force.

[Clark2008]

45. I could have told you that...

One look at my paycheck vs. all the training I've done tells me something has to give.

[baldguy]

54. 99.9% of the rich get there one of two ways: inherit it or steal it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

55. Hard work and long hours will get you on a higher deck of the sinking ship. n/t

[porphyrian]

57. Yes, and it's only going to get worse as the Boomers age. - n/t

[Schema Thing]

59. Hah! I knew that was Scott Burns writing! He's a straight shooter on money

...matters. I love him even though he seems to have a contempt for Democrats that equals or exceeds his contempt for Republicans.

I think that is his one blind spot.

[Iris]

78. $2.69/lb for free range chicken? That's cheap. n/t

[killbotfactory]

81. Well, duh, it's capitalism

It's designed to screw over workers and enrich the already rich.

[mark414]

86. the people who work the hardest in this country get shit on the most

and if you don't believe that than you probably don't know what hard work is

[Xenotime]

87. Pay does need to go up. Or the government needs to step in.